Hate Speech / Free Speech

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Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:33 pm

First there was the idiotic notion of hate crime.

Then the even more ludicrous notion of hate speech.

At first it gave the Enlightened a way to ridicule and try to shut down speech they don't like (see college campuses across America)....but even more disturbingly now it is getting codified into law across the world.


Just read of a story in the UK where a couple years ago a 13 year old boy was tragically killed riding his bicycle. Another teen posted the lyrics to a rap song on the boy's social media to pay tribute to the boy. As you might guess, the rap song contained vulgarity including the N-word.

The now 19 year old teen was accused and found guilty of hate speech. The teen now has to wear an ankle bracelet monitoring their movement and pay a fine of roughly $1,000.







God help us if this sort of insanity ever finds its way into the US Justice System.
Last edited by Zarniwoop on Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:47 pm

The UK is truly devolving into a police-state dystopian hell. There's something so self-fulfilling about the phenomenon in that country that it's almost shocking.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Selmon Rules » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:35 pm

I was talking to someone today and noted that it was better before the PC police showed up and started correcting everyone's speech. Back then you knew where everyone stood on matters of race and basic respect for others. Now everyone is so careful about how and what they say, you never know who the real idiots are....
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:52 pm

We're getting closer the utopian society we saw in Demolition Man (great 90's action flick)
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:04 pm

DreadNaught wrote:We're getting closer the utopian society we saw in Demolition Man (great 90's action flick)

Simon says die!
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:19 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:I was talking to someone today and noted that it was better before the PC police showed up and started correcting everyone's speech. Back then you knew where everyone stood on matters of race and basic respect for others. Now everyone is so careful about how and what they say, you never know who the real idiots are....




I’ve maintained this for ages. The best way to show the sheer stupidity of the KKK or Antifa or similar groups is simply to let them speak. They do more damage to their cause then anyone who tries to criticize them on rational grounds using valid arguments.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:14 am

Another thing I'm guessing most of us will agree on.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby deltbucs » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:14 am

The Outsider wrote:Another thing I'm guessing most of us will agree on.

Yep
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:34 am

The Outsider wrote:Another thing I'm guessing most of us will agree on.

This
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Buc2 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:57 am

Speaking of hate speech/hate groups. A new poll # is out.

Voters are even more critical of the so-called “antifa” protesters who surfaced again this past weekend in Charlottesville and Washington, DC and continue to think they’re chiefly interested in causing trouble.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that only 18% of Likely U.S. Voters share a favorable opinion of the antifa protesters, with six percent (6%) who view them Very Favorably. That compares to 24% and eight percent (8%) respectively last September.

Fifty-four percent (54%) have an unfavorable opinion of these protesters, including 39% with a Very Unfavorable one. Twenty-eight percent (28%) are undecided.


I'm surprised 18% hold a favorable view of them.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Stuart » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:03 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:I was talking to someone today and noted that it was better before the PC police showed up and started correcting everyone's speech. Back then you knew where everyone stood on matters of race and basic respect for others. Now everyone is so careful about how and what they say, you never know who the real idiots are....




I’ve maintained this for ages. The best way to show the sheer stupidity of the KKK or Antifa or similar groups is simply to let them speak. They do more damage to their cause then anyone who tries to criticize them on rational grounds using valid arguments.



LOL

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/16/un ... -room.html
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Stuart » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:13 pm

Buc2 wrote:Speaking of hate speech/hate groups. A new poll # is out.

Voters are even more critical of the so-called “antifa” protesters who surfaced again this past weekend in Charlottesville and Washington, DC and continue to think they’re chiefly interested in causing trouble.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that only 18% of Likely U.S. Voters share a favorable opinion of the antifa protesters, with six percent (6%) who view them Very Favorably. That compares to 24% and eight percent (8%) respectively last September.

Fifty-four percent (54%) have an unfavorable opinion of these protesters, including 39% with a Very Unfavorable one. Twenty-eight percent (28%) are undecided.


I'm surprised 18% hold a favorable view of them.


meh I would think it's higher...

hell they have hollywood, main stream media, court system/judges, democrats and everyone else who hates trump behind them
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Buc2 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:34 pm

Stuart wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Speaking of hate speech/hate groups. A new poll # is out.



I'm surprised 18% hold a favorable view of them.


meh I would think it's higher...

hell they have hollywood, main stream media, court system/judges, democrats and everyone else who hates trump behind them

I guess even those people think there is a right way and a wrong way to hate Trump. :lol:
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Stuart » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:58 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Stuart wrote:
meh I would think it's higher...

hell they have hollywood, main stream media, court system/judges, democrats and everyone else who hates trump behind them

I guess even those people think there is a right way and a wrong way to hate Trump. :lol:


some people just hate everyone who doesn't agree with them. those same people will argue endlessly how open minded they are.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Cheb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:34 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:First there was the idiotic notion of hate crime.

Then the even more ludicrous notion of hate speech.

At first it gave the Enlightened a way to ridicule and try to shut down speech they don't like (see college campuses across America)....but even more disturbingly now it is getting codified into law across the world.

Just read of a story in the UK where a couple years ago a 13 year old boy was tragically killed riding his bicycle. Another teen posted the lyrics to a rap song on the boy's social media to pay tribute to the boy. As you might guess, the rap song contained vulgarity including the N-word.

The now 19 year old teen was accused and found guilty of hate speech. The teen now has to wear an ankle bracelet monitoring their movement and pay a fine of roughly $1,000.

God help us if this sort of insanity ever finds its way into the US Justice System.


I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Cheb wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:First there was the idiotic notion of hate crime.

Then the even more ludicrous notion of hate speech.

At first it gave the Enlightened a way to ridicule and try to shut down speech they don't like (see college campuses across America)....but even more disturbingly now it is getting codified into law across the world.

Just read of a story in the UK where a couple years ago a 13 year old boy was tragically killed riding his bicycle. Another teen posted the lyrics to a rap song on the boy's social media to pay tribute to the boy. As you might guess, the rap song contained vulgarity including the N-word.

The now 19 year old teen was accused and found guilty of hate speech. The teen now has to wear an ankle bracelet monitoring their movement and pay a fine of roughly $1,000.

God help us if this sort of insanity ever finds its way into the US Justice System.


I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.


I used a real life example....and it is absurd....that was my point.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Cheb wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:First there was the idiotic notion of hate crime.

Then the even more ludicrous notion of hate speech.

At first it gave the Enlightened a way to ridicule and try to shut down speech they don't like (see college campuses across America)....but even more disturbingly now it is getting codified into law across the world.

Just read of a story in the UK where a couple years ago a 13 year old boy was tragically killed riding his bicycle. Another teen posted the lyrics to a rap song on the boy's social media to pay tribute to the boy. As you might guess, the rap song contained vulgarity including the N-word.

The now 19 year old teen was accused and found guilty of hate speech. The teen now has to wear an ankle bracelet monitoring their movement and pay a fine of roughly $1,000.

God help us if this sort of insanity ever finds its way into the US Justice System.


I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.

The line for hate speech is “is anyone offended,” not an objective line. So yeah, this is a foreseeable consequence of hate speech laws.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Cheb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:20 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.


I used a real life example....and it is absurd....that was my point.


You're taking an extreme outlier and painting it as the norm in an effort to support your viewpoint. Kinda disingenuous if you ask me. But you do you.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:38 pm

Stuart wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


I’ve maintained this for ages. The best way to show the sheer stupidity of the KKK or Antifa or similar groups is simply to let them speak. They do more damage to their cause then anyone who tries to criticize them on rational grounds using valid arguments.



LOL

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/16/un ... -room.html


Pathetic...

The outrage mob swung and missed at that. All that effort for 20 idiot Nazi LARPers led by an occupy bro still living in his parents basement.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby SDBucs » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:52 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:The UK is truly devolving into a police-state dystopian hell. There's something so self-fulfilling about the phenomenon in that country that it's almost shocking.


This this this this this

A liberal will sit you down and tell you all about how Europe has such great schools, such perfect medicine, amazing culture.. yada yada

But they tend to conveniently ignore things like this. I'm glad this board sees it.

The UK is absolutely fucked. Censorship off the rails, broken justice system, crime, Islam slowly taking over. I've never been and never plan to. God save the Queen I guess

Over the next 30 years we will see drastic changes to the UK in the absolute wrong direction.


Hate speech as a concept is a societal cancer.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:01 am

Cheb wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
I used a real life example....and it is absurd....that was my point.


You're taking an extreme outlier and painting it as the norm in an effort to support your viewpoint. Kinda disingenuous if you ask me. But you do you.

Dude, it happened. This isn’t about what is normal. It’s about what is in the realm of possibility. It’s what can happen when a country places restrictions on free speech, and a cautionary tale to the only country with constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Jonny » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:45 pm

This is not uncommon in UK. There have been past instances where people got penalized for fat shaming as well. A youtuber got arrested for training his pug to do a nazi salute. The right wing intellectuals of UK are morons. They often argue that they should be able to offend Islam because it is a religion, but at the same time push for anti-semitism to be illegal by claiming Jewish people as a race. So ****ing what? Freedom of speech includes freedom to be a bigot, against race or religion or what ever.

I take great pleasure in pointing these kind of events to smug Canadians and Europeans about how US for all its problems has the basic things right.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:24 am

Wow. Just wow.

Which country's police force just called on its citizens to report offensive speech? Not libelous speech or death-threat speech, just plain old insulting speech. Speech that is merely hurtful or hateful. Which nation's cops instructed the citizenry to snitch on haters?

North Korea? China? Maybe Turkey?

It was Britain. Yes, Britain has become a nation in which offensive speech can become a police matter. Where, in April this year, a 19-year-old woman was convicted of sending a "grossly offensive" message after she posted rap lyrics that included the N-word on her Instagram page. Where, also in April, a Scottish shitposter was found guilty of a hate crime for teaching a pug to do a Nazi salute and posting the footage on YouTube. Where in recent years individuals have been arrested and in some cases imprisoned for making racist comments or just cracking tasteless jokes on Twitter.

This birthplace of John Stuart Mill, this nation that gave the world John Milton and his Areopagitica, still one of the greatest cries for the "liberty to utter," is now at the forefront of shutting speech down.

The latest Orwellian invitation to rat out offensive speakers was issued by the South Yorkshire Police.

These clearly time-rich coppers took to Twitter to remind people that "HateHurts". That was their actual hashtag. I'm sure hate can hurt, but not nearly as much as being burgled or beaten up or whatever other crimes these cops are probably missing as they trawl Twitter for rudeness.

"In addition to reporting hate crime, please report non-crime hate incidents," they pleaded. These non-crimes include "things like offensive or insulting comments, online, in person or in writing."

It is chilling that cops, whose only business should be fighting crime, now want to hear about non-crime. Anyone who has even a sliver of respect for the ideal of liberty, for the right of people to go about their lives without being watched or narked on, should be seriously concerned that cops would want to hear about non-criminal behavior, otherwise known as everyday behavior.

Even more perversely, these non-crimes really just mean "insulting comments." So if you're in Yorkshire and someone on Facebook calls you a fat slob, call the cops. If you wear a niqab and a work colleague tells you—a la Boris Johnson—that you look a little bit like a mailbox, phone the police.

In essence, South Yorkshire Police want people to report on everyday conversations. This is Stasi territory. Coppers asking citizens to file reports on things they have read or overheard really should have disappeared from Europe with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Yet here it still is, this GDR-style instruction to eavesdrop and squeal, though now it's happening on the other side of the old Iron Curtain.

It is testament to how entrenched censorship has become in 21st-century Britain that a police force can so casually call for reports about speech.

This is a country whose communications laws and public-order legislation can be, and regularly are, used to punish hateful expression. Last year The Times reported that British police are arresting nine people a day for posting "offensive messages online." In 2016, 3,300 people were detained and questioned for things they said online. In some parts of Britain the arrest rate for offensive speech has risen by nearly 900% in recent years. We Brits are sleepwalking into a police state.

Not content with punishing people for the offensive things they say on public online platforms, now there are moves afoot to punish them for what they say privately too. This week the Labour MP Lucy Powell put forward a Bill in parliament that would ban private online discussion forums because, she says, hate speech can fester in these "echo chambers." Why not go the whole hog and mic us all up so that you can hear what we're saying at all times of the day?

The South Yorkshire call for information about "non-crimes" caused a stink in the media here in Britain, which is good. Yet while these cops' declaration of war against offensive speech may have been shocking, it wasn't surprising. It is the logical next step in Britain's ever-expanding empire of hate-policing.

We have laws that criminalize hate. We have laws against being grossly offensive. We have hate-crime laws, which mean that if you commit a crime with hatred in your mind, then you might get a stiffer punishment. Punch a Buddhist because you hate Buddhism, and you could get a longer sentence than if you punch him simply because you dislike that particular Buddhist.

This is the policing of thought. The policing of ideology.

The policing and punishment of hate by officialdom should never be acceptable. Hatred is a feeling, a sensation, a thing of the mind, and that area of life must always be off-limits to the authorities. South Yorkshire Police, here's some offensive speech for you: **** you and your Stasi tribute act.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby Buc2 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:33 am

:shock:
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:18 pm

What. The. ****?! This HAS to wake them up...right? They have to see they’re headed down a path history shows us leads to suffering, loss of human rights and eventually the loss of life. How can Europe of all places not see this?
Last edited by PrimeMinister on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby The Outsider » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:24 pm

Cheb wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:First there was the idiotic notion of hate crime.

Then the even more ludicrous notion of hate speech.

At first it gave the Enlightened a way to ridicule and try to shut down speech they don't like (see college campuses across America)....but even more disturbingly now it is getting codified into law across the world.

Just read of a story in the UK where a couple years ago a 13 year old boy was tragically killed riding his bicycle. Another teen posted the lyrics to a rap song on the boy's social media to pay tribute to the boy. As you might guess, the rap song contained vulgarity including the N-word.

The now 19 year old teen was accused and found guilty of hate speech. The teen now has to wear an ankle bracelet monitoring their movement and pay a fine of roughly $1,000.

God help us if this sort of insanity ever finds its way into the US Justice System.


I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.



So a Scottish guy is dating a girl who has a pug, and he thinks it's ugly as **** but she thinks it's the cutest thing in the world. So as a joke he trained the dog to give the classic Nazi salute and being a youtuber he put it online. Of course being in the UK he was actually arrested over this and while I don't think he did time he was put on probation, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... f4037434fa

While it was in bad taste it was also obviously satire and no worse than many other comedians do on a regular basis. It doesn't become hate speech just because it was a bad joke.
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby HamBone » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:34 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I wouldn't consider the example you detailed to be hate speech, specifically because the speech wasn't used in a hateful manner.

You may want to use an example that's a tad less absurd if you want to defend carte blanche freedom of speech.



So a Scottish guy is dating a girl who has a pug, and he thinks it's ugly as **** but she thinks it's the cutest thing in the world. So as a joke he trained the dog to give the classic Nazi salute and being a youtuber he put it online. Of course being in the UK he was actually arrested over this and while I don't think he did time he was put on probation, etc.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... f4037434fa

While it was in bad taste it was also obviously satire and no worse than many other comedians do on a regular basis. It doesn't become hate speech just because it was a bad joke.


That’s insane...
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Re: Hate Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:49 am

PrimeMinister wrote:They have to see their headed down a path history shows us leads to suffering


Hate leads to suffering.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:38 am

I updated the thread title to generalize it a bit.



French far-right politician Marine Le Pen expressed indignation Thursday over a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation in response to photos she tweeted of violent acts committed by the Islamic State.
...
Le Pen had shared the shocking images in December 2015, a few weeks after ISIS-aligned militants launched coordinated attacks that killed 130 people around Paris, including at the Bataclan concert hall. Then-French President François Hollande called the attacks “an act of war.”
...
Le Pen insisted that she would not comply with the court-ordered evaluation, which is not enforceable.



http://time.com/5402684/marine-le-pen-p ... sis-tweet/





I'm glad we live in the only country with a guaranteed and explicit right to free speech











----------------------------


I was reading the comments to another article on this topic...and one cracked me up:



She says she would not comply with the court order, which is not legally enforceable.

Even the Frog courts pull out the white flag on enforcing their own bullshit
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:32 pm

Twitter is broadening its "hate speech" rules....


Here's how the company's blog post describes the new rules:

You may not dehumanize anyone based on membership in an identifiable group, as this speech can lead to offline harm.

Definitions:

Dehumanization: Language that treats others as less than human. Dehumanization can occur when others are denied of human qualities (animalistic dehumanization) or when others are denied of human nature (mechanistic dehumanization). Examples can include comparing groups to animals and viruses (animalistic), or reducing groups to their genitalia (mechanistic).

Identifiable group: Any group of people that can be distinguished by their shared characteristics such as their race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, serious disease, occupation, political beliefs, location, or social practices.



I'm sure this is going to end well.



----------------------------------



Has Twitter read Twitter? About 98% of the tweets can't meet these rules.
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