Urban Liar

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Re: Urban Liar

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:22 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Even if we set aside the Title IX violation. We can draw parallels to the JoePa/Penn State situation in regards to what is the moral obligation of a person with such power and responsibility. Meyer (just like JoePa) misplaced what the priority should be. They placed the livelihood of the program over that of a victim. All Meyer would have had to do back in 2015 was report the information and place that assistant coach (Zach Smith) on administrative leave while the process played itself out. But instead he chose to protect this coach due to the relationship he had with his family.

That said, I'm not sure Meyer will get fired b/c I question OSU's ability to investigate themselves here. Seems like an obvious conflict of interest where minimizing damage to the football program will take priority over finding the truth.


I get that people would draw parallels to JoePA, but it's apples to elephants. One involves children and young adults who want to play football influence by powerful famous men who control their futures, the other is an issue between adults, husband and wife. Spousal abuse is terrible and it's a crime, but it's not on the Penn State level.


I 100% agree the actions of Sandusky abusing victims over decades is much worse than a single victim of repeated domestic violence. I didn't intend on making a 'worse evil' comparison.

My point was the action (or rather inaction) of both JoePa and Meyer in terms of a moral obligation to protect the victim and how priorities can be misplaced. I don't believe JoePa or Meyer were necessarily evil men, just that they acted out of convenience instead of moral obligation given their position at the University and with the program. That inaction should have consequences b/c if Meyer knew of the assault in 2015 (knowing it already happened in 2009) and did nothing then he shouldn't be permitted to hold the responsibility he does as head coach.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:36 am

I suppose they could investigate and "find nothing". Though since this is a federal law then the federal government gets to review it. If the cover up is bad, then the cover up of the cover up is probably going to be worst. At that point could be bye bye football program at least.

This is also a government run organization which probably runs under stricter rules than trying to apply it to a private organization. Though both have a certain point where they don't want to ruin public perception.

This may also come back to UF as well since the first documented incident happened there. Though not sure how much would come of it there.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:47 am

To USC’s point about title IX....why is this even a title IX issue? I don’t understand that. The alleged victim is not a university employee or student. It didn’t happen on school grounds while the alleged abuser was in his role as coach. The school isn’t discriminating based on sex.

Does title IX then give the school the authority to delve into any confrontation between an employee and a random woman?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:58 am

Zarniwoop wrote:To USC’s point about title IX....why is this even a title IX issue? I don’t understand that. The alleged victim is not a university employee or student. It didn’t happen on school grounds while the alleged abuser was in his role as coach. The school isn’t discriminating based on sex.

Does title IX then give the school the authority to delve into any confrontation between an employee and a random woman?


Do you as a teacher at a college have to submit to background checks? If so do you think something like this on your history would exclude you from having the job you have?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:01 am

PanteraCanes wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:To USC’s point about title IX....why is this even a title IX issue? I don’t understand that. The alleged victim is not a university employee or student. It didn’t happen on school grounds while the alleged abuser was in his role as coach. The school isn’t discriminating based on sex.

Does title IX then give the school the authority to delve into any confrontation between an employee and a random woman?


Do you as a teacher at a college have to submit to background checks? If so do you think something like this on your history would exclude you from having the job you have?

What does that have to do with title IX?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:01 am

I don’t know if they did a background check on me. I presume they did. I teach at a religious school and i have to sign what is essentially a morality clause. If I break it, I fully expect to be fired and I won’t complain


I’m not at all suggesting they shouldn’t fire the guy. If they have just cause and the want to they should. Even if they don’t have just cause they can ... Ohio is a right to work state i think


I’m asking why is this part of title IX?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:11 am

I would assume because one of the people involved (the person doing it) is a faculty/staff member. From the clip posted it does not seem that the victim needs to be the one who is directly connected to the University. Just says if someone directly (student, faculty, staff, etc) and they are involved then they want it reported to the department. They probably want either party. If the victim is connected then they want to protect them, help them, and make them feel safe. If the person doing it is connected then probably want to distance themselves from that person as what is stopping that person from moving onto someone connected.

Also would be a big issue if one of the top paid state employees is caught doing this stuff and allowed to keep being a top paid state employee. Then even a bigger issue if that top paid state employee has a position that directly interacts with children or students.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:20 am

PanteraCanes wrote:I would assume because one of the people involved (the person doing it) is a faculty/staff member. From the clip posted it does not seem that the victim needs to be the one who is directly connected to the University. Just says if someone directly (student, faculty, staff, etc) and they are involved then they want it reported to the department. They probably want either party. If the victim is connected then they want to protect them, help them, and make them feel safe. If the person doing it is connected then probably want to distance themselves from that person as what is stopping that person from moving onto someone connected.

Also would be a big issue if one of the top paid state employees is caught doing this stuff and allowed to keep being a top paid state employee. Then even a bigger issue if that top paid state employee has a position that directly interacts with children or students.



yeah, I definitely get the emotional impetus for it...I just think when you extend stuff like title IX to manage your employees private lives it's taking it too far. If it happened on campus, if it happened during his role of coach even off campus, if it happened with a student or fellow employee I would be more OK with title IX having a role (though admittedly I hate title IX in general -- at least what it has become...I'm OK with its origins in the 70's). The reason I hate title IX being applied specifically here is that it requires a lower standard of "proof" than a normal criminal conduct case. Indeed the original title IX under Obama was awful. The revisions that DeVos did were a bit better. I just don't think our workplace contracts should be influenced by innuendo and rumor...particularly when the incident has absolutely nothing to do with the workplace.


Again, this has very little to do with the current case....I'm speaking in general of the application of title IX.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:38 am

I would possibly look at it as if it does happen to student and you know the person had a history of it then you are in a spot where they can say the school/government knew of this person's history and still let them have access. They could have prevented the issue with the student but didn't.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Buc2 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:23 pm

Let the piling on begin...

An Unfair Game: Urban Meyer, a History of Abuse
by Stephen Gordon August 2, 2018

* Former NCAA athletes shed light on embattled coach’s abusive treatment of players in undercover videos
* Xavier Nixon, OL: “They had a guy’s quads explode in the weight room… during what we call the Valentine’s Day Massacre.”
* William Green, DE: “There was these mat drills, where people would literally get choked out.”
* Gideon Ajagbe, LB: “A lot of what played into my depression was they humiliated me… they said I was a pu**y… “
* Meyer’s players experienced “arm dangling,” “quads exploding” on Florida Gator team Urban Meyer threw objects at players “it’s a f*cking full bottle of Gatorade, and he’s chucking it at people.”



(Ohio) Project Veritas has released undercover video of former University of Florida athletes discussing the history of physical and mental abuse they experienced at the discretion of Urban Meyer, the now-embattled head coach of the Ohio State Buckeyes.

The videos were filmed in separate meetings throughout late 2017 and 2018 across the country, and feature four players that played at various times during Urban Meyer’s tenure as head coach of the Florida Gators.

According to these players, Meyer would blatantly disregard player’s health and wellbeing. Xavier Nixon, who played at the University of Florida for coach Meyer, recalled an incident where Omarius Hines, a teammate at the time, was severely injured during a weight training session Meyer oversaw called “The Valentine’s Day Massacre.”

“They had a guy’s quads explode in the weight room on the leg press during what we call the Valentine’s Day Massacre. You basically do everything until failure and the lactic acid had built up in his legs so much that his quads literally exploded, they erupted, and he had to be taken out in an ambulance.“


Another player who witnessed the injury, Josh Evans who played safety for the University of Florida between 2009 and 2012, corroborated the event:

“We had a guy on a leg press machine… Guy had probably about six plates on each side of the leg press. So [the coach] blew the whistle as he goin’, and the whole team kinda came over there like go, pushing, pushing, pushing. He got to about 38 [reps,] blew, the sides of his quads just erupted, boom. Legs, screaming, had to take him to the hospital.“


According to the players, there was a culture under Coach Meyer where injured players would be mocked, and the severity of their injuries would be kept from them.

Nixon spoke specifically of an incident regarding Gideon Ajagbe, a freshman for Meyer’s 2010 Florida Gator team, who contracted a severe infection in his shoulder that led to hospitalization. Before he was hospitalized, Ajagbe was forced to practice and was purposefully subjected to ridicule from the team.

Nixon said Ajagbe “was literally dying.” Despite having “bacteria eating the muscle in his shoulders,” Ajagbe was forced to carry “a 45-pound plate over his head… he was crying.” Nixon believed Meyer’s staff “didn’t adequately acknowledge” Ajagbe’s injury. Ajagbe confirmed this event in his own words:

“… it was bad. A lot of what played into my depression was they humiliated me. They thought I was trying to skip out on practice… the word they used, imma be frank, they said I was a pu**y. They’re like man, you’re a pu**y, you’re soft, you’re this, you’re that… There was one day, my arm was literally dangling, like I couldn’t lift my shoulder… And they were like everybody run like Gideon… The whole team, like everyone was laughing at me.”


Ajagbe said he communicated that he was in pain, but that Meyer’s staff would still push him to practice:

“And they’ll try to make me lift up weights, and I’ll literally have [my bad shoulder] up, I don’t know how I got it up there, but I would put all my weight on [my good shoulder…] But they didn’t know, nobody knew, but it was still like daggers.”


Ajagbe expressed remorse, saying, “My mom and dad sent me out here and they put all their faith in this coaching staff to take care of me.” The abuse nearly led Ajagbe to suicide.

After being examined by medical professionals, Ajagbe became depressed and struggled with pills. “Imma be honest with you, I was suicidal.” ”

“For six days nobody knew. They didn’t know how bad it was… ” continued Ajagbe, who claims that Meyer threatened to take him off the team unless he would start “being serious.”

Ajagbe explained how Meyer would psychologically abuse players:

“He’s the kind of dude that would get all the information he needs to get on you and he would use it to manipulate you or he would use it against you.“

“If [Meyer] know that you’re not really smart, he’ll put you in front of the team and make you do trivia. And everyone would laugh at you.”


William Green, another former Florida Gator, said he believes those workouts were excessive, and spoke more to the nature of “The Valentine’s Day Massacre” workout:

“The Valentine’s Day Massacre was a tough ass workout… so it’s basically like, we used to have these types of workouts for us, and they had them labeled by certain things. We had like Failure Fridays or the Massacre where we would [do] a workout that’s ridiculous. Like you’ll do a full body workout, but it’d be everything to failure. Benching until you can’t bench no more, pull down until you can’t pull down no more… pretty much, you’re feeling like you gotta throw up because they just running you down the field, up and down the field.”


Green explained “mat drills” where players “would literally get like choked out… the whole idea behind it… you’d have to wrestle, and it wasn’t like normal wrestling. It was like you both stand up… and there was and there was this one mat… and you gotta crawl across the mat. These guys on top of you. It’s his job to not let you get across the mat, and they literally get up on there and choke you. And you might go to sleep… It’s extremely unnecessary. We don’t talk about the stuff we used to do is not normal, at all. It just wasn’t.”

Nixon also described a pre-game ritual where Meyer would “grab a Gatorade bottle… and throw it at you.”

“I’m sure he thought he was joking, but it’s a f*cking full bottle of Gatorade, and he’s chucking it at people.”

This is the first video in an undercover series exposing issues in both the NCAA and NFL.


Ohio State: Urban Meyer placed on administrative leave
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:30 pm

Saw it earlier but did not know it was a series. I look forward to the Saban one. Especially with things I heard about with his time from the dolphins.

It is really interesting and worth watching.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby The Outsider » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:27 pm

Sounds like bro culture at it's finest. I'm not the least bit surprised that all of this **** is coming out about Meyer. He's a ****ing scumbag.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:29 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:To USC’s point about title IX....why is this even a title IX issue? I don’t understand that. The alleged victim is not a university employee or student. It didn’t happen on school grounds while the alleged abuser was in his role as coach. The school isn’t discriminating based on sex.

Does title IX then give the school the authority to delve into any confrontation between an employee and a random woman?


Title IX appears to have grown to cover anything regarding discrimination or mistreatment of women. This shouldn’t be a Title IX issue. The fact most people aren’t even questioning why Title IX applies here is a testament to how far it’s expanded.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:10 pm

Meyer admitted to lying.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:43 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Meyer admitted to lying.



Well he's gone.

He probably would have been fired anyway even if he admitted it when it came up...but now that he lied, he's definitely done.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Crocaneers » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:57 pm

Too soon?


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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:59 pm

4 years
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Nano » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:28 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Meyer admitted to lying.



Well he's gone.

He probably would have been fired anyway even if he admitted it when it came up...but now that he lied, he's definitely done.

Maybe. He said he knew and reported it to officials back in 2015 and implied that the school did nothing. Basically trying to throw the blame at the university instead of him.

That does raise questions though of why he kept Smith on his staff if he really knew, and why did he lie about knowing it recently. Someone will go down for this though, possibly the AD if not Urban
Last edited by Nano on Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:28 pm

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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Four Verticals » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:28 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Meyer admitted to lying.


Meyer may have lied to the public but his contract requires him to report it to the school which he says he did. If he did, firing him just became all that much more difficult or, at the very least, expensive for the school.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:42 am

Nano wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

Well he's gone.

He probably would have been fired anyway even if he admitted it when it came up...but now that he lied, he's definitely done.

Maybe. He said he knew and reported it to officials back in 2015 and implied that the school did nothing. Basically trying to throw the blame at the university instead of him.

That does raise questions though of why he kept Smith on his staff if he really knew, and why did he lie about knowing it recently. Someone will go down for this though, possibly the AD if not Urban


Sounds like they are trying put lipstick on a pig. You nailed it though,why wasn't Smith fired in 2015 and why did Meyer blantenly lie multiple times last week at B1G media day?

Are people buying the 'I wasn't prepared for those questions" response as an excuse for lying?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby PanteraCanes » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:41 am

Brett McMurphy posted this:

Less than two months before Ohio State WR coach Zach Smith was investigated in 2015 for domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith, Shelley Meyer was a featured speaker at a Birmingham, Ala., conference to draw awareness to the ongoing fight to eradicate domestic violence.

The conference – “College Football Wives 2015” – was in August 2015 and featured eight wives of prominent coaches speaking against domestic violence. The event was part of a public awareness campaign called “Refuse The Abuse” – and came less than two months before Zach Smith’s alleged domestic violence on Courtney Smith on Oct. 25, 2015.

“With our coaching staff and Urban, disrespecting women or any violence toward women is one of the rules of the team that is not acceptable," Shelley Meyer told AL.com on Aug. 8, 2015.

Despite multiple domestic violence allegations against Zach Smith, he remained with the program until he was fired July 23, 2018.

Urban Meyer said last month during Big Media Days that he and his wife, Shelley, “counseled” Zach and Courtney Smith in 2009 after Zach Smith was arrested on domestic violence charges – aggravated assault against a pregnant victim. Courtney was 10 weeks pregnant at the time.

“She’s (Shelley) always weighed in as my best friend and soul mate,” Urban said at Big Ten Media Days on July 24. “She’s been right there with everything. Especially when you’re dealing with – not who’s going to carry the ball on third down, she has an opinion on that too – we chat about people. She has a great spirit. A great love of people. Her heart is always in the right place. She’s phenomenal. Absolutely I rely on her.”

Courtney told me she refused to press charges in 2009 after Meyer’s longtime “life coach” Hiram de Fries convinced her to drop the charges.

Courtney said last month she had multiple conversations and text message exchanges with Shelley about Zach’s domestic violence in 2015. Courtney also shared pictures of her abuse with Shelley.

In a 2015 text message to Courtney, Shelley said she was concerned for Courtney’s safety: ““I am with you! A lot of women stay hoping it will get better. I don’t blame you! But just want u to be safe. Do you have a restraining order? He scares me.”

On Aug. 1, Ohio State announced it was investigating Urban Meyer and the investigation was expected to be completed within 14 days.

In an interview with (614) magazine, published Jan. 5, 2015, Shelley proudly discussed her ability to help people with their “tragic situations.”

“I’m a psychiatric nurse, for God’s sake,” Shelley told the magazine. “All I do is help people problem-solve, help them with their social issues, their personal tragic situations, real life stuff.”

Meanwhile, Ohio State University, since last Friday, has refused to respond to multiple public record requests inquiring about the employment status of Shelley Meyer, who is a part-time instructor of clinical practice at the university’s College of Nursing.

At 12:58 p.m. Monday, Benjamin Johnson and Christopher Davey, of Ohio State’s public information office, assured the information would be provided “very soon.”

As of the publishing of this story Tuesday afternoon, Ohio State has still not fulfilled this public information request concerning Shelley Meyer, a state employee.

Shelley Meyer could have violated the school’s Sexual Misconduct Policy and potentially Title IX, if she did not notify her supervisor of Courtney Smith’s repeated abuse. The school, however, announced Urban Meyer had been placed on paid administrative leave on Aug. 1.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Doctor » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:11 am

Putting all this Urban Myer stuff aside for a moment (never liked the guy), it's a little concerning to me how people seem to be demanding employers and bosses now act as courts and jurors. It's like, we have this entire system in place to uncover the truth, give due process, allow for a defense, hear all sides, and all that- yet people now seem to demand skipping over all that and going right to the sentencing. Literally just read an article on Meyers and Durkin the Maryland HC that says "Why are they waiting for investigators to finish? They should do it now". Like really? Like **** passing judgement on facts or even having all the facts, go for blood now.

If we're just going to skip the entire justice system we are paying for to instead demand employers and bosses move the moment an allegation surfaces, then can we at least get our money back?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Cheb » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:50 pm

Doctor wrote:Putting all this Urban Myer stuff aside for a moment (never liked the guy), it's a little concerning to me how people seem to be demanding employers and bosses now act as courts and jurors. It's like, we have this entire system in place to uncover the truth, give due process, allow for a defense, hear all sides, and all that- yet people now seem to demand skipping over all that and going right to the sentencing. Literally just read an article on Meyers and Durkin the Maryland HC that says "Why are they waiting for investigators to finish? They should do it now". Like really? Like **** passing judgement on facts or even having all the facts, go for blood now.

If we're just going to skip the entire justice system we are paying for to instead demand employers and bosses move the moment an allegation surfaces, then can we at least get our money back?


Two reasons.

One, if the Ohio State brass has evidence that Urban Meyer lied or otherwise covered up the truth, then they need not wait for an investigation if they so choose. That would be like an employer needing to wait to fire their employee if their employee's urine drug test popped positive for something bad. No need for an investigation, we have all the evidence we need, there's the door, you can see yourself out.

As an employer myself, I don't need to call the police or launch a formal investigation for every fireable infraction. Some things are pretty open and shut.

Two, the head coach of Maryland has a vested interest in Urban Meyer not being the head coach of Ohio State. Maryland is also in the Big Ten and indeed plays in the same division as Ohio State (East, if you were curious). Having Urban Meyer as head coach gives Ohio State the best chance for victory. Thus, not having the extremely successful head coach of your division opponent around makes it theoretically easier for Maryland to win that game.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby DreadNaught » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:45 am

Had to share a joke from Twitter in light of the most recent story about that fired domestic abuser, drunk driver of an assistant coach. Apparently he was buying some kinky sex toys off Amazon and having them shipped to the Woody Hayes Athletic complex addressed to him. He also took **** pics both in the offices there in addition to the White House with the Presidential seal on the towels in the background.

Ohio State only won one championship while he was there, but Zach Smith got four rings.


Fwiw I don't blame Meyer for that behavior, just that he should have never still been on the staff.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Deja Entendu » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:58 pm

Cheb wrote:
Doctor wrote:Putting all this Urban Myer stuff aside for a moment (never liked the guy), it's a little concerning to me how people seem to be demanding employers and bosses now act as courts and jurors. It's like, we have this entire system in place to uncover the truth, give due process, allow for a defense, hear all sides, and all that- yet people now seem to demand skipping over all that and going right to the sentencing. Literally just read an article on Meyers and Durkin the Maryland HC that says "Why are they waiting for investigators to finish? They should do it now". Like really? Like **** passing judgement on facts or even having all the facts, go for blood now.

If we're just going to skip the entire justice system we are paying for to instead demand employers and bosses move the moment an allegation surfaces, then can we at least get our money back?


Two reasons.

One, if the Ohio State brass has evidence that Urban Meyer lied or otherwise covered up the truth, then they need not wait for an investigation if they so choose. That would be like an employer needing to wait to fire their employee if their employee's urine drug test popped positive for something bad. No need for an investigation, we have all the evidence we need, there's the door, you can see yourself out.

As an employer myself, I don't need to call the police or launch a formal investigation for every fireable infraction. Some things are pretty open and shut.

Two, the head coach of Maryland has a vested interest in Urban Meyer not being the head coach of Ohio State. Maryland is also in the Big Ten and indeed plays in the same division as Ohio State (East, if you were curious). Having Urban Meyer as head coach gives Ohio State the best chance for victory. Thus, not having the extremely successful head coach of your division opponent around makes it theoretically easier for Maryland to win that game.


Wait, what?
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Crocaneers » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:43 am

USA Today
.. here's what we know today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 037472002/
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:58 am

Crocaneers wrote:USA Today
.. here's what we know today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 037472002/


I thought for sure he was going to get canned. But I don't anymore. I think he keeps his job. If anyone loses their job I think its the AD
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:01 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
Crocaneers wrote:USA Today
.. here's what we know today

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 037472002/


I thought for sure he was going to get canned. But I don't anymore. I think he keeps his job. If anyone loses their job I think its the AD

Some think he may get a 1-3 game suspension, but I agree. I think he stays.
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Re: Urban Liar

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:05 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
I thought for sure he was going to get canned. But I don't anymore. I think he keeps his job. If anyone loses their job I think its the AD

Some think he may get a 1-3 game suspension, but I agree. I think he stays.

Was just about to post the same. I don't think he gets fired (although others would in a similar situation), but I do think a small suspension is coming. He admits to lying about when he knew and that in itself could be punishable.
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