Affirmative Action in Universities

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Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri May 25, 2018 10:29 am

I know there is a supreme court ruling coming a long soon on the issue, but a few more lawsuits were recently filed by minority groups.

For example, a group representing Chinese students have filed lawsuits against some prominent schools because those schools affirmative action programs are hurting the Chinese minorities.

Asian students in general represent 5% of the overall student population but nearly 30% of National Merit scholars.

Schools such as Harvard and MIT use race conscious criteria when admitting students. As such Asian students have to score at least 140 points higher on their SATs than white students (the article doesn't have the figure for how much higher they have to score then other groups -- blacks, latinos, etc. - but I'm guessing its much more than 140).

These "holistic" admissions criteria are the same type of criteria that were used against Blacks and Jews in the early 20th century.



Does anyone here support this idea of awarding/removing points based on race? If so, aren't we clearly seeing an example of where those types of programs do more harm then good? How would you propose to "fix" this issue of a policy that was meant to help minorities actually hurting them?
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Stuart » Fri May 25, 2018 11:01 am

"Does anyone here support this idea of awarding/removing points based on race?"

Hell no, it's racist as f**k
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri May 25, 2018 11:06 am

I think giving some preference to 1st generation college students would accomplish the same goal more than a race-based quota would.

I know WHY they want to do this, which is to get more minorities on campus, but I'm uncertain that the current methodology is most effective.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri May 25, 2018 11:12 am

Here is my biggest issue with it...when you award points on something other than academic criteria (whether it be race, sporting ability, how much your parents donate, legacy status, etc)...you are setting the students up to fail. When someone isn't prepared for college (for whatever reason) they eventually drop out at much higher rates than those who were qualified (there is a very strong correlation between SAT score and college GPA/college graduation). And they drop out with high debt and no benefit to it -- they don't have the degree to offset it in the marketplace for jobs. So basically it dramatically hurts the people it was meant to help.

Sadly the only way for it to work is to set it up like the massive schools do for sports stars...because they aren't qualified academically, they are pushed to ridiculously easy classes (think underwater basket-weaving). That is the only way to get a non-qualified person through the academic rigors of college.

The idea in society of lower bars for people drives me crazy. There is nothing more elitist and counter-productive then that. If a certain group of students (demographic, socioeconomic, etc) can't meet the hurdles, you work with them and shift that culture to emphasize different behaviors...you don't lower the bar. If we feel that Latin Americans (or whatever group) don't get into college enough, we shouldn't lower the bar for them...we should give them access to more tutoring in K-12 to bring their performance up to other groups. IMO that is truly the only way to increase success
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri May 25, 2018 11:14 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I think giving some preference to 1st generation college students would accomplish the same goal more than a race-based quota would.



While I don't agree with giving 1st generation students lower standards, I absolutely agree that all PUBLIC schools should immediately remove legacy points for students who had parents/siblings/etc go to that school. I think my program would accomplish the same goal as yours -- namely, increasing the number of first generation students.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Buc2 » Fri May 25, 2018 11:53 am

I support no points for anybody. Either you qualify based on your admissions testing or you don't. If a school wants to attract academically superior students, they can raise the minimum admission test score they will accept...for everybody. Conversely, if a school wants to admit more average students, they can lower the minimum test score they will accept. That is fair to all regardless of their race, who their parents are, where their parents went to school, or when they immigrated to the USA.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Babeinbucland » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:09 pm

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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby The Outsider » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:40 pm

Babeinbucland wrote:Image


How typically simplistic.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Cheb » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:00 pm

I feel that college admissions should be blind to gender and ethnic backgrounds. If I ran the system (which is a terrible idea because this is not my field of expertise), I would remove gender, race, and ethnicity from the applications process, and judge the applicants solely based on merit. Test scores, essays, community service and extracurriculars. Let the demographics fall where they may. If my University only accepts 1000 freshmen per year, and it worked out that 60% of them in a given year are female Asians, or any other subset of gender and ethnicity, then tough ****. The best 1000 got in.

Of course public policy makers should look at trends in regards to which subgroups are more successful and why, and attempt to level the playing field if it's found to be unlevel, but that doesn't mean that a college should articifically skew their demographics to fit a specific target.

Just my opinion. Again, I am no expert on this.
Last edited by Cheb on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Ken Carson » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:00 pm

What is the systemic barrier and what is the evidence that it exists?
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:13 am

Cheb wrote:I feel that college admissions should be blind to gender and ethnic backgrounds. If I ran the system (which is a terrible idea because this is not my field of expertise), I would remove gender, race, and ethnicity from the applications process, and judge the applicants solely based on merit. Test scores, essays, community service and extracurriculars. Let the demographics fall where they may. If my University only accepts 1000 freshmen per year, and it worked out that 60% of them in a given year are female Asians, or any other subset of gender and ethnicity, then tough ****. The best 1000 got in.

Of course public policy makers should look at trends in regards to which subgroups are more successful and why, and attempt to level the playing field if it's found to be unlevel, but that doesn't mean that a college should articifically skew their demographics to fit a specific target.

Just my opinion. Again, I am no expert on this.


This is a great post. I really don’t understand how an Asian would ever vote for a Democrat. These Affirmative Action policies discriminate against them even more than Caucasians.

Native born Asians are even testing higher than Caucasians on the verbal sections of standardized tests now. If they are putting in the work, they deserve the reward.

This argument that students need diversity so we need to accept unqualified applicants rings hollow. We live in the most diverse nation in history. We all get our dose of diversity every day, whether we are on a campus or not.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby deltbucs » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:31 pm

Cheb wrote:I feel that college admissions should be blind to gender and ethnic backgrounds. If I ran the system (which is a terrible idea because this is not my field of expertise), I would remove gender, race, and ethnicity from the applications process, and judge the applicants solely based on merit. Test scores, essays, community service and extracurriculars. Let the demographics fall where they may. If my University only accepts 1000 freshmen per year, and it worked out that 60% of them in a given year are female Asians, or any other subset of gender and ethnicity, then tough ****. The best 1000 got in.

Of course public policy makers should look at trends in regards to which subgroups are more successful and why, and attempt to level the playing field if it's found to be unlevel, but that doesn't mean that a college should articifically skew their demographics to fit a specific target.

Just my opinion. Again, I am no expert on this.

Agreed and well said.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:20 pm

Doesn’t seem right to me but I might be a little biased . I am married to a Ivy League educated Asian . They not only seem smarter but they just outwork/ outstudy others from what I have seen,so it doesn’t matter what they do .! There also some universities that want more Asians to raise the school’s GPA as well .
They also tried to bus minorities into schools and that didn’t work out very well either .

They should do away with all that crap. They should do away with the electoral college and just go by number of votes and make Hillary president and stop this national embarrassment we have...
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:Doesn’t seem right to me but I might be a little biased . I am married to a Ivy League educated Asian . They not only seem smarter but they just outwork/ outstudy others from what I have seen,so it doesn’t matter what they do .! There also some universities that want more Asians to raise the school’s GPA as well .
They also tried to bus minorities into schools and that didn’t work out very well either .

They should do away with all that crap. They should do away with the electoral college and just go by number of votes and make Hillary president and stop this national embarrassment we have...


Good post.

You almost lost me with the opinion that Asians are smart and work harder, but I jumped back in with busing minorities. You killed the dismount throwing in the Electoral College and the Hillary endorsement. I totally get it, I think the Electoral College should be the Electoral University by now anyway.
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Re: Affirmative Action in Universities

Postby Zarniwoop » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:28 pm

uscbucsfan wrote: I think the Electoral College should be the Electoral University by now anyway.


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