***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Thread!**

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby SixStringSamurai » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:11 am

OTT loses leverage if this trade doesn’t get done soon?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:57 am

Brazen331 wrote:Nobody wants to take on Ottawa’s mistake.


In the NHL, it happens ALL THE TIME. A team with sufficient cap space will take Ryan's contract...if they're compensated for doing so.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:59 am

SixStringSamurai wrote:OTT loses leverage if this trade doesn’t get done soon?


I don't think they "lose leverage", per se. As time passes they'll lose out on the return they get for him.

I'm fairly certain, the team acquiring him would want him in by the time training camp starts...September, I believe?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Phantom Phenom » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:26 pm

The Bolts
No one really knows what happened, but an Erik Karlsson trade between the Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning was close to being agreed upon by the two sides (potentially three if the New York Rangers got involved) on Thursday night, but talks have since slowed. We weren’t close to the trade call that was falsely reported, but the deal also isn’t off. Have hope, my friends.

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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:09 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:
The Bolts
No one really knows what happened, but an Erik Karlsson trade between the Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning was close to being agreed upon by the two sides (potentially three if the New York Rangers got involved) on Thursday night, but talks have since slowed. We weren’t close to the trade call that was falsely reported, but the deal also isn’t off. Have hope, my friends.




The other interesting part was where they were insinuating that the asking price isn't nearly as high as anticipated (specifically stating that Kucherov wouldn't be included).


The tricky part is the 3rd team taking Ryan's deal.

I don't doubt that our compensation to OTT has been agreed upon. It's the compensation package to that 3rd team that might be sticky.

Still...dreaming of how I'm gonna spend my winning Powerball ticket...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Phantom Phenom » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:33 pm

David Pagnotta
@TheFourthPeriod
For all the talk of the NYR possibly being the 3rd team in the OTT/TB potential trade, I'm told the Devils have also been in the mix and may possibly be the 3rd team when all is said and done. Not set in stone, but NJ has been involved in these talks.
12:20 AM - Jul 6, 2018
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby SixStringSamurai » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:44 pm

Tired of these twitter handles...they’re like the weather man
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:07 am

Breaking: Right wing Nikita Kucherov will sign the richest contract in franchise history, surpassing Steven Stamkos. Kucherov's eight-year contract extension will pay him an average of $9.5 million starting in the 2019-2020 season.

I'm pretty sure this means the Lightning aren't looking to include him in any trade deals.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:19 am

Buc2 wrote:
Breaking: Right wing Nikita Kucherov will sign the richest contract in franchise history, surpassing Steven Stamkos. Kucherov's eight-year contract extension will pay him an average of $9.5 million starting in the 2019-2020 season.

I'm pretty sure this means the Lightning aren't looking to include him in any trade deals.


Good. I didn't want the Bolts to trade Kuch, but I had/have faith in Yzerman to make the best decision.

I don't see how the Bolts can add a another big contract without a significant salary dump at this point and it seems the Bolts are keeping the same team together for the most part. Which is fine imo since talent isn't the problem. We were up 3-2 on the eventual SC Champs and just went cold those last 2 games.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby SixStringSamurai » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:06 am

Wow! Awesome! Glad to keep you here Kuuuuch
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm glad we were able to keep Kuch but I don't know where this leaves us after next year. Especially defensively. We'll have exactly 3 defensemen under contract. Maybe Foote and Masin are called up by then?

Offensively, we should be fine. By then, we'll have our next crop of young guys making their way up from the AHL.

Point and Gourde will also need new contracts after next year.

Maybe Yzerman has something up his sleeve? Finding a way to shed Callahan would be a great start.

In Yzerman I trust. Let's see if Mr. Wizard has something up his sleeve.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Well, Tampa is gong to be devoting about 33 million to 4 players after the McDonough and Kuch extensions. Even at 80 Million, that’s over 40 percent of the cap for 4 players.

Tampa is going to have to fill out their roster with more entry level contracts and journeymen in the future to stay under the cap. That’s the nature of things; to have this strong of a top-end roster, the bottom part is going to be below average.

That’s fine, as long as the top guys earn their contracts and don’t regress.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:47 am

Brazen331 wrote:Well, Tampa is gong to be devoting about 33 million to 4 players after the McDonough and Kuch extensions. Even at 80 Million, that’s over 40 percent of the cap for 4 players.

Tampa is going to have to fill out their roster with more entry level contracts and journeymen in the future to stay under the cap. That’s the nature of things; to have this strong of a top-end roster, the bottom part is going to be below average.

That’s fine, as long as the top guys earn their contracts and don’t regress.


Your stat is a bit mis-leading in a couple of ways.


We have our top 5 forwards and top 3 defensemen locked up long term...and under the cap.

In other words, our top 2 lines (offense) and top 2 lines (defense). If we extend Point, that will be our ENTIRE top two lines on offense. IF we choose to extend him, we'll be more than able to do it...especially after this year.

ANY teams 3rd and 4th line (on offense) and 3rd line (defense) are going to be average or below. That includes WASH, TOR, BOS and any other team you can name. Obviously some teams have more depth than others but generally speaking, those lines aren't as talented. If they were as talented...they wouldn't be playing on those lines and getting less ToI.

Also, it should go without saying that as players age, their play regresses. We don't really have our guys locked up WELL PAST their prime (Callahan is a prime example of that type of player).

Teams...IF they draft well, use their guys coming up from the minors to fill out these other lines. The teams that don't are FORCED to go buy plaers in FA. THIS YEAR, you'll see Erne and Cirelli for certain...and most likely (projecting here) Joseph and Volkov moving up full time, taking those lines. You hope, with time and seasoning they develop enough to keep moving up lines. You add Gourde (3rd line) and Callahan (4th line) and Paquette (4th line)...and you have essentially filled out your roster on offense.

If ya'll remember...this is how Kuch, Johnson and Palat moved on to the Lightning. The Triplets? They were the first line with Norfolk/Syracuse and were moved onto the Lightning together. It just worked out that Kuch developed into a 100 point player.

The Bolts have drafted well (offensively). If Yzerman and BrisBois have done their jobs...and we all believe they are amongst the best in the business...we should be fine there.

Defensively, Masin is going to have every opportunity to make the big club this year. Foote probably next year. That gives us 2.5 lines on defense.

This is the year that Koekkoek stays a Bolt or moves on. If he plays up to his standing, you have 3 full lines of defense. And all under the cap after next year.

Gourde is the probable exception. He'll be a RFA and if he has a year like last year, he'll most likely be traded.



Granted, there is a LOT of projection here but the point is, that ASSUMING we have drafted well, we have the players to move to the big club and stay under the cap. There is ALWAYS the chance that, if the right deal comes along, we get lucky and unload a bad contract (Callahan). Yzerman has been masterful at working around the cap thus far. There is no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. And if our players develop as projected, he will.

Karlsson is a pipe dream...similar to Tavares. I don't really think there is a way to fit him in without ditching Callahan's contract...which isn't likely to happen without us losing some significant piece(s)...starting with Foote. Probably a Gourde and/or Tyler Johnson. Ultimately, I don't think Yzerman will pay the price to acquire him. It'll **** with the Yzerplan too much.

Again...a WINNING LOTTERY TICKET. With about the same odds.

Still think Karlsson goes to Vegas.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:39 am

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:Well, Tampa is gong to be devoting about 33 million to 4 players after the McDonough and Kuch extensions. Even at 80 Million, that’s over 40 percent of the cap for 4 players.

Tampa is going to have to fill out their roster with more entry level contracts and journeymen in the future to stay under the cap. That’s the nature of things; to have this strong of a top-end roster, the bottom part is going to be below average.

That’s fine, as long as the top guys earn their contracts and don’t regress.


Your stat is a bit mis-leading in a couple of ways.


We have our top 5 forwards and top 3 defensemen locked up long term...and under the cap.

In other words, our top 2 lines (offense) and top 2 lines (defense). If we extend Point, that will be our ENTIRE top two lines on offense. IF we choose to extend him, we'll be more than able to do it...especially after this year.

ANY teams 3rd and 4th line (on offense) and 3rd line (defense) are going to be average or below. That includes WASH, TOR, BOS and any other team you can name. Obviously some teams have more depth than others but generally speaking, those lines aren't as talented. If they were as talented...they wouldn't be playing on those lines and getting less ToI.

Also, it should go without saying that as players age, their play regresses. We don't really have our guys locked up WELL PAST their prime (Callahan is a prime example of that type of player).

Teams...IF they draft well, use their guys coming up from the minors to fill out these other lines. The teams that don't are FORCED to go buy plaers in FA. THIS YEAR, you'll see Erne and Cirelli for certain...and most likely (projecting here) Joseph and Volkov moving up full time, taking those lines. You hope, with time and seasoning they develop enough to keep moving up lines. You add Gourde (3rd line) and Callahan (4th line) and Paquette (4th line)...and you have essentially filled out your roster on offense.

If ya'll remember...this is how Kuch, Johnson and Palat moved on to the Lightning. The Triplets? They were the first line with Norfolk/Syracuse and were moved onto the Lightning together. It just worked out that Kuch developed into a 100 point player.

The Bolts have drafted well (offensively). If Yzerman and BrisBois have done their jobs...and we all believe they are amongst the best in the business...we should be fine there.

Defensively, Masin is going to have every opportunity to make the big club this year. Foote probably next year. That gives us 2.5 lines on defense.

This is the year that Koekkoek stays a Bolt or moves on. If he plays up to his standing, you have 3 full lines of defense. And all under the cap after next year.

Gourde is the probable exception. He'll be a RFA and if he has a year like last year, he'll most likely be traded.



Granted, there is a LOT of projection here but the point is, that ASSUMING we have drafted well, we have the players to move to the big club and stay under the cap. There is ALWAYS the chance that, if the right deal comes along, we get lucky and unload a bad contract (Callahan). Yzerman has been masterful at working around the cap thus far. There is no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. And if our players develop as projected, he will.

Karlsson is a pipe dream...similar to Tavares. I don't really think there is a way to fit him in without ditching Callahan's contract...which isn't likely to happen without us losing some significant piece(s)...starting with Foote. Probably a Gourde and/or Tyler Johnson. Ultimately, I don't think Yzerman will pay the price to acquire him. It'll **** with the Yzerplan too much.

Again...a WINNING LOTTERY TICKET. With about the same odds.

Still think Karlsson goes to Vegas.


First of all, I think it’s safe to say that Karlsson most likely DID agree to sign with Tampa under the same terms that Ottawa offered. Obviously, this was where he wanted to go.

Now they are saying Dallas is in the lead because Ottawa obviously wants Miro Heiskenen. But he is a decade younger than Karlsson; same with Glass, I doubt Ottawa can get a prospect of that caliber at this point. They fucked up; they should have traded earlier.
Last edited by Brazen331 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:23 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:
Your stat is a bit mis-leading in a couple of ways.


We have our top 5 forwards and top 3 defensemen locked up long term...and under the cap.

In other words, our top 2 lines (offense) and top 2 lines (defense). If we extend Point, that will be our ENTIRE top two lines on offense. IF we choose to extend him, we'll be more than able to do it...especially after this year.

ANY teams 3rd and 4th line (on offense) and 3rd line (defense) are going to be average or below. That includes WASH, TOR, BOS and any other team you can name. Obviously some teams have more depth than others but generally speaking, those lines aren't as talented. If they were as talented...they wouldn't be playing on those lines and getting less ToI.

Also, it should go without saying that as players age, their play regresses. We don't really have our guys locked up WELL PAST their prime (Callahan is a prime example of that type of player).

Teams...IF they draft well, use their guys coming up from the minors to fill out these other lines. The teams that don't are FORCED to go buy plaers in FA. THIS YEAR, you'll see Erne and Cirelli for certain...and most likely (projecting here) Joseph and Volkov moving up full time, taking those lines. You hope, with time and seasoning they develop enough to keep moving up lines. You add Gourde (3rd line) and Callahan (4th line) and Paquette (4th line)...and you have essentially filled out your roster on offense.

If ya'll remember...this is how Kuch, Johnson and Palat moved on to the Lightning. The Triplets? They were the first line with Norfolk/Syracuse and were moved onto the Lightning together. It just worked out that Kuch developed into a 100 point player.

The Bolts have drafted well (offensively). If Yzerman and BrisBois have done their jobs...and we all believe they are amongst the best in the business...we should be fine there.

Defensively, Masin is going to have every opportunity to make the big club this year. Foote probably next year. That gives us 2.5 lines on defense.

This is the year that Koekkoek stays a Bolt or moves on. If he plays up to his standing, you have 3 full lines of defense. And all under the cap after next year.

Gourde is the probable exception. He'll be a RFA and if he has a year like last year, he'll most likely be traded.



Granted, there is a LOT of projection here but the point is, that ASSUMING we have drafted well, we have the players to move to the big club and stay under the cap. There is ALWAYS the chance that, if the right deal comes along, we get lucky and unload a bad contract (Callahan). Yzerman has been masterful at working around the cap thus far. There is no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. And if our players develop as projected, he will. Karlsson is a pipe dream...similar to Tavares. I don't really think there is a way to fit him in without ditching Callahan's contract...which isn't likely to happen without us losing some significant piece(s)...starting with Foote. Probably a Gourde and/or Tyler Johnson. Ultimately, I don't think Yzerman will pay the price to acquire him. It'll **** with the Yzerplan too much.

Again...a WINNING LOTTERY TICKET. With about the same odds.

Still think Karlsson goes to Vegas.


First of all, I think it’s safe to say that Karlsson most likely DID agree to sign with Tampa under the same terms that Ottawa offered. Obviously, this was where he wanted to go.

Now they are saying Dallas is in the lead because Orfawa obviously wants Miro Heiskenen. But he is a decade younger than Karlsson; same with Glass, I doubt Ottawa can get a prospect of that caliber at this point. They fucked up; they should have traded earlier.


I've said it before. I have NO DOUBT, our compensation (monetary) with OTT was agreeable. They're obviously playing teams off against each other. Yzerman doesn't fall for that **** and Dorian knows it. Whether or not DAL or Vegas falls for it is another matter. And McPhee (LV) is a smart guy...I don't know about the DAL GM but the fact is Vegas has FAR more assetts and draft picks (and cap space) and if they want him bad enough, they'll get him. Dorian is just playing this out for the biggest payoff. Yzerman can't offer the best payoff. Neither can Dallas...even if they include Heiskenen.

Actually SIGNING Karlsson isn't the issue. Non-monetary compensation to OTT...and a 3rd team to take Callahan, most likely is.

It really doesn't matter. We'll be Cup contenders again. With or without Karlsson.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:54 am

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
First of all, I think it’s safe to say that Karlsson most likely DID agree to sign with Tampa under the same terms that Ottawa offered. Obviously, this was where he wanted to go.

Now they are saying Dallas is in the lead because Orfawa obviously wants Miro Heiskenen. But he is a decade younger than Karlsson; same with Glass, I doubt Ottawa can get a prospect of that caliber at this point. They fucked up; they should have traded earlier.


I've said it before. I have NO DOUBT, our compensation (monetary) with OTT was agreeable. They're obviously playing teams off against each other. Yzerman doesn't fall for that **** and Dorian knows it. Whether or not DAL or Vegas falls for it is another matter. And McPhee (LV) is a smart guy...I don't know about the DAL GM but the fact is Vegas has FAR more assetts and draft picks (and cap space) and if they want him bad enough, they'll get him. Dorian is just playing this out for the biggest payoff. Yzerman can't offer the best payoff. Neither can Dallas...even if they include Heiskenen.

Actually SIGNING Karlsson isn't the issue. Non-monetary compensation to OTT...and a 3rd team to take Callahan, most likely is.

It really doesn't matter. We'll be Cup contenders again. With or without Karlsson.


I was wondering why the Rangers were involved with Tampa and Ottawa. I don’t think it was just to take on salary and obtain prospects...I think NY wanted Kucherov. He’s a young star and they could pay him.

Maybe the whole deal fell through because Yzerman decided they would be better off to give the money to Kucherov and save the assets?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:27 am

I think the Jets have the best contract in the league: Mark Scheifele 6.125 million through 2024. I don’t think he’s getting traded anytime soon.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:48 pm

Brazen331 wrote:I think the Jets have the best contract in the league: Mark Scheifele 6.125 million through 2024. I don’t think he’s getting traded anytime soon.




Not really. Don't get me wrong...I like Scheifele...but he's making what the league pays; roughly 1 mil/yr. per 10 points scored (for forwards). He's a 60 pt./yr. guy. 2 years ago was an outlier (he scored 80 or so then) but other than that ONE year, he's in the 60 range. And that's where he was at this year. It's still a good deal because of his AGE (25). They locked him up like we've locked up our guys. They'll get his best years without over-paying.

Look at it this way...we have ALL of our guys locked up (excluding Callahan, whose contract we took on) at or BELOW "market value" (using the 1 mil per 10 pts. scored system). Palat, Johnson...even Killorn...all fall in the same range. The difference is...we were able to keep Stammer AND Kuch for UNDER market value. Stammer should be a 9 mil+/yr guy (or MORE because he's a center) and Kuch should be a 10+/yr. guy.

And this is the conundrum we're gonna have with Point...and to some extent, Gourde, after next year. Centers are TYPICALLY paid more than wingers (Kuch is an exception because he's one of the 3 best in the league). Point is a center. This year COULD put him in the 7-8 mil/yr. category...assuming he continues his progression. They were BOTH 60+ point guys LAST YEAR. Assuming they even stay the SAME...that's 6+ mil/yr for each of them...and there is no way we can do that. Even Yzerman can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

And this is what you and other Lightning fans are missing about how prolific our offense is: We have THREE Scheifele's...and one of them is a ****ing DEFENSEMAN!

This team is really an embarrassment of riches. It goes under-appreciated because we have yet to win the Cup. This is a sick team that will be in contention for many years to come...and that's as it stands as of TODAY. IF by some act of God, we were able to swing a deal for EK (and EXTEND him, without giving up a TON), it would really be unfair.

Just imagine what happens if Palat or Johnson or Killorn has a career year? What if Erne or Cirelli improves dramatically? How many points is JT Miller gonna have, playing a FULL YEAR on the StamkOv line? 60 minimum? Probably more? He was nearly a PPG player when he came over...

Buckle up. It's gonna be a helluva year...baring injuries...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:06 pm

Brazen331 wrote:I was wondering why the Rangers were involved with Tampa and Ottawa. I don’t think it was just to take on salary and obtain prospects...I think NY wanted Kucherov. He’s a young star and they could pay him.

Maybe the whole deal fell through because Yzerman decided they would be better off to give the money to Kucherov and save the assets?


The Devils and Avs were also rumored to be the "other" teams involved.

Don't over-think this. Go to CapFriendly and look at the teams with the most cap space available. Guess which teams you'll see with the most?

Again...this happens all the time in the NHL. IF the teams are compensated adequately, they'll take on bad contracts from other teams. The fact is that EVERYONE and their brother knows that OTT has to trade EK. It shouldn't be too difficult for the Bolts to work out compensation with OTT. There are 3 OTHER problems: First, we'd need to free up cap space. That means getting rid of big, worthless contracts (CALLAHAN). For a team with cap space...they're gonna want a LOT to help out the Bolts. That's picks, players AND prospects.

THEN, we'd need to come to an agreement with EK on an extension. There is NO WAY Yzerman makes a deal without extending EK. We'd have to give up too much. Yzerman also has to consider saving money to re-sign Point and/or Gourde (next year) and VASY in 2 years. That means freeing up even MORE cap space (maybe T. Johnson/Palat or Killorn/Coburn).

Finally, there is the Ryan angle. Apparently (according to the rumor mill). OTT wants Ryan's crappy contract to be included in any deal. There are only a handful of teams that can do that on their own, without the assistance of a 3rd team. I think he's making 7+ mil/year!?

There are MANY moving parts to any deal involving EK. Frankly, too many (IMO) to make the Bolts a serious option. We don't NEED EK to contend for a Cup we DO need VASY. And Point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby SixStringSamurai » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:14 pm

I’m okay with not having Karlsson on this team. I mean, **** with him on this team, imagine the **** we’d get if we didn’t win the cup. I think we have all the pieces together. We can win the cup next year.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:12 am

SixStringSamurai wrote:I’m okay with not having Karlsson on this team. I mean, **** with him on this team, imagine the **** we’d get if we didn’t win the cup. I think we have all the pieces together. We can win the cup next year.


And be in contention the year after. And the year after that. And the year after that.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:19 am

Brazen331 wrote:I was wondering why the Rangers were involved with Tampa and Ottawa. I don’t think it was just to take on salary and obtain prospects...I think NY wanted Kucherov.


And your answer just played out yesterday:

CHI traded Marian Hossa (his contract) to ARI for (essentially) prospects. Hossa is never playing again. He just can't "officially" retire or he'll lose his money. So the Hawks are (were) stuck with it.

Apparently, the prospects ARI got in return were pretty good. ARI also sent a couple of scrubs back to CHI (in order to mitigate the Hossa contract somewhat).

Point is...CHI didn't give up any of their best players OR prospects and ARI took the crappy contract...simply because they could.

I still don't think it matters in regards to Tampa landing Karlsson but (as I mentioned before), this kind of thing happens often in the NHL.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Teitan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:58 am

Alpha wrote:
SixStringSamurai wrote:I’m okay with not having Karlsson on this team. I mean, **** with him on this team, imagine the **** we’d get if we didn’t win the cup. I think we have all the pieces together. We can win the cup next year.


And be in contention the year after. And the year after that. And the year after that.


Yep. Our D will get where it needs to be. McDonagh having time to gel with the team, Sergachev getting better, etc.

We are stacked for the next few years.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:31 pm

Teitan wrote:
Alpha wrote:
And be in contention the year after. And the year after that. And the year after that.


Yep. Our D will get where it needs to be. McDonagh having time to gel with the team, Sergachev getting better, etc.

We are stacked for the next few years.



Here's where I'm at with this whole Karlsson deal:

IF acquiring EK means we lose Point OR can't extend Vasy...I'm dead-set against getting him. Point is a very young, quality Center and Vasy is our franchise Goalie for the next 10 years. You just don't roll across these types of players every year or three.

IF acquiring EK means we only get him for one year...I'm against it. Unless we give up VERY little in doing so.

IF acquiring EK means losing Sergachev...no dice.

I'd be okay with losing Gourde. I'd be ok with losing Dotchin or Koekkoek. I'd even be ok with losing Tyler Johnson. Hell...I'd personally blow whoever decided to take Callahan's contract, if it'd help.

Frankly...we don't NEED Karlsson and I seriously doubt Yzerman is offering much to OTT in compensation. OTT absolutely HAS to deal Karlsson. There is really no need for us to blow up our team in order to obtain him. I'd be willing to bet Vegas feels the same way. DAL...I can't speak for. They may feel like they are an EK away from winning the Cup. I disagree but whateves.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:06 am

Here is the thing to consider regarding Ottawa. If Karlsson is dealt, that defense becomes pretty much the worst defense in the league overnight. They are going to require a roster defender in addition to prospect/picks.

Vegas signed Colin Miller to a pretty good contract, under 4 million a year for a defender who scored 41 points is good value. I had a feeling something could happen after that...you know Ottawa probably really wants to trade with Colorado so they can get their own 1st back. It’s the Jack Hughes Derby. If the Avalanche get Hughes it’s going to be Sakic/ Forsberg all over again.

I just read a good article that discusses a potential deal with Vegas. I think it gives an idea of what Ottawa is trying to do and why there has been no trade. This trade is crazy, here goes:

Vegas gets: Erik Karlsson, Matt Duchene and Bobby Ryan.

Ottawa gets: William Karlsson, Colin Miller, Oscar Lindberg, Malcolm Subban, Nick Suzuki, 1st 2019, 1st 2021, 2nd 2020, 3rd 2019, Dave Clarkson’s contract.

Looks like a rape of Vegas’ future. No thanks. Just an article but a do think Ottawa is making crazy demands.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:29 am

Brazen331 wrote:Here is the thing to consider regarding Ottawa. If Karlsson is dealt, that defense becomes pretty much the worst defense in the league overnight. They are going to require a roster defender in addition to prospect/picks.

Vegas signed Colin Miller to a pretty good contract, under 4 million a year for a defender who scored 41 points is good value. I had a feeling something could happen after that...you know Ottawa probably really wants to trade with Colorado so they can get their own 1st back. It’s the Jack Hughes Derby. If the Avalanche get Hughes it’s going to be Sakic/ Forsberg all over again.

I just read a good article that discusses a potential deal with Vegas. I think it gives an idea of what Ottawa is trying to do and why there has been no trade. This trade is crazy, here goes:

Vegas gets: Erik Karlsson, Matt Duchene and Bobby Ryan.

Ottawa gets: William Karlsson, Colin Miller, Oscar Lindberg, Malcolm Subban, Nick Suzuki, 1st 2019, 1st 2021, 2nd 2020, 3rd 2019, Dave Clarkson’s contract.

Looks like a rape of Vegas’ future. No thanks. Just an article but a do think Ottawa is making crazy demands.



LMFAO! That's beyond insanity.

There is NO WAY IN HELL, Vegas has to give up that much to acquire EK AND take on Ryan's contract. EVEN IF you include Duchene. And IF they do, then Vegas got played like a Mf'er.

I'm in no way saying Vegas COULDN'T swing this kind of deal...hell...it may be the ONLY way Dorian keeps his job. This sounds like an OTT fan's, wish list.

From everything and nearly every source I've seen, there is one constant: Karlsson WANTS to play in Tampa.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if he was traded to another team for THIS year...and went to FA. Where Yzerman would sign him and give up nothing.

I'm actually kind of hoping this is what happens...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:57 am

Alpha wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:Here is the thing to consider regarding Ottawa. If Karlsson is dealt, that defense becomes pretty much the worst defense in the league overnight. They are going to require a roster defender in addition to prospect/picks.

Vegas signed Colin Miller to a pretty good contract, under 4 million a year for a defender who scored 41 points is good value. I had a feeling something could happen after that...you know Ottawa probably really wants to trade with Colorado so they can get their own 1st back. It’s the Jack Hughes Derby. If the Avalanche get Hughes it’s going to be Sakic/ Forsberg all over again.

I just read a good article that discusses a potential deal with Vegas. I think it gives an idea of what Ottawa is trying to do and why there has been no trade. This trade is crazy, here goes:

Vegas gets: Erik Karlsson, Matt Duchene and Bobby Ryan.

Ottawa gets: William Karlsson, Colin Miller, Oscar Lindberg, Malcolm Subban, Nick Suzuki, 1st 2019, 1st 2021, 2nd 2020, 3rd 2019, Dave Clarkson’s contract.

Looks like a rape of Vegas’ future. No thanks. Just an article but a do think Ottawa is making crazy demands.



LMFAO! That's beyond insanity.

There is NO WAY IN HELL, Vegas has to give up that much to acquire EK AND take on Ryan's contract. EVEN IF you include Duchene. And IF they do, then Vegas got played like a Mf'er.

I'm in no way saying Vegas COULDN'T swing this kind of deal...hell...it may be the ONLY way Dorian keeps his job. This sounds like an OTT fan's, wish list.

From everything and nearly every source I've seen, there is one constant: Karlsson WANTS to play in Tampa.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if he was traded to another team for THIS year...and went to FA. Where Yzerman would sign him and give up nothing.

I'm actually kind of hoping this is what happens...


When you gonna talk to Esposito again, Alpha? Give us some insider info.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:00 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Alpha wrote:

LMFAO! That's beyond insanity.

There is NO WAY IN HELL, Vegas has to give up that much to acquire EK AND take on Ryan's contract. EVEN IF you include Duchene. And IF they do, then Vegas got played like a Mf'er.

I'm in no way saying Vegas COULDN'T swing this kind of deal...hell...it may be the ONLY way Dorian keeps his job. This sounds like an OTT fan's, wish list.

From everything and nearly every source I've seen, there is one constant: Karlsson WANTS to play in Tampa.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if he was traded to another team for THIS year...and went to FA. Where Yzerman would sign him and give up nothing.

I'm actually kind of hoping this is what happens...


When you gonna talk to Esposito again, Alpha? Give us some insider info.


I actually saw him (and his wife) about a week ago...when he first arrived. I meant to talk to him on his way out but got busy and never saw him leave.

I'm not really sure what OTT is waiting on. At first, I just thought they were letting DAL/TB/LV bid against each other...but OTT doesn't stand to gain ANYTHING by letting this continue to play out past September.

And they STILL have Ryan's contract.

OTT is SO fucked. They almost NEED to keep EK AND Ryan (AND Duchene) to have even a CHANCE at not being the worst team in the league (and having to lose Hughes). Imagine the fan backlash that will be compunded by losing EK AND knowing they could've had Hughes. FML.

That franchise is just over the barrel...IMO, they should just dump every big contract they can and start over. Yeah...it'll cost Dorian his job but he's done anyway...baring some miracle trade payoff...but they'll get pennies on the dollar if they keep EK until the trade deadline! They're not getting much more than that now! And including Ryan's contract in the deal only DECREASES EK's value/return. It makes sense for them to do SEPERATE deals for them and ZERO sense to tie Ryan to EK.

OTT has some time to do a deal. Probably a month or so.

My suspicion is that everyone is waiting for arbitration. Karlsson (Vegas) is going to arbitration. Stone, Ceci are as well. I THINK (LV and OTT) are waiting to see what Karlsson's contract is gonna be and re-negotiate accordingly. Cost certainty and all that.

I still think LV and OTT end up making a deal. The only question is does EK sign an extension or go to FA next year?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Brazen331 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:33 am

I will be shocked if WK makes it all the way to arbitration. It might not go well for him because he is not a 40-goal scorer. He had a 25 percent shooting percentage this year. What’s average like 9 or 10 percent? So that will bring him down. You look at his plusminus and you could make an argument that he might have been the best defensive forward last year but that’s not where you make your money.

I think Vegas will offer him a 6 year contract for 6 million a year. He probably should not turn that down for a short-term arbitration contract

Was it TSN that reported that Karlsson rejected the Ottawa offer over bonus money? I think they reported that he wanted practically his entire salary up front, like Toronto did for Tavares. Why wouldn’t they do that, if true? Does the Ottawa owner not have 10 million on hand to shell out in a bonus?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL Tampa Bay Lightning 2017-18 NHL Season Threa

Postby Alpha » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:56 am

Brazen331 wrote:I will be shocked if WK makes it all the way to arbitration. It might not go well for him because he is not a 40-goal scorer. He had a 25 percent shooting percentage this year. What’s average like 9 or 10 percent? So that will bring him down. You look at his plusminus and you could make an argument that he might have been the best defensive forward last year but that’s not where you make your money.

I think Vegas will offer him a 6 year contract for 6 million a year. He probably should not turn that down for a short-term arbitration contract

Was it TSN that reported that Karlsson rejected the Ottawa offer over bonus money? I think they reported that he wanted practically his entire salary up front, like Toronto did for Tavares. Why wouldn’t they do that, if true? Does the Ottawa owner not have 10 million on hand to shell out in a bonus?


Regardless of whether or not WK makes it TO arbitration (I think his date is Aug. 3 or something like that), they (OTT/LV) still need to see what he and Stone and Ceci are gonna sign at. What their number is going to be. Especially if any of these guys are going to be included in any deal. Obviously, there's a hard cap. Contracts may need to be moved. All of this is only my best guess as to why EK hasn't been moved yet.

I forget who FIRST reported it. It may have been TSN. Here's the thing with OTT...and some other NHL teams. Not ALL teams spend TO the cap limit. OTT is one of those teams. TB/TOR/MON/CHI...other teams do...but not all. To THOSE teams, EK's guaranteed or bonus money may seem inconsequential but to teams like OTT, those things matter a GREAT deal.

There's also another couple of factors: First, we're looking at a lockout around 2020-2021. We're also looking at expansion around the same time. "small market teams" like OTT are really gonna be at a disadvantage if the cap continues to rise (as it's expected to), IF the system stays as it currently is.

Cost certainty is important for any franchise but for teams like OTT it is absolutely VITAL.

Tampa is extremely fortunate to have an owner with deep pockets, to say the least.
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