Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Caradoc » Tue May 15, 2018 6:07 am

mdb1958 wrote:Wouldnt it be a bitch for Stevie to outplay Unrein in camp and still not get the nod because of guaranteed money. Jason wont want to wear that black eye. I'm curious to see how the snap count ends up for that guaranteed money.


Licht isn't making decisions on who gets what snaps.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:32 am

Caradoc wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Wouldnt it be a bitch for Stevie to outplay Unrein in camp and still not get the nod because of guaranteed money. Jason wont want to wear that black eye. I'm curious to see how the snap count ends up for that guaranteed money.


Licht isn't making decisions on who gets what snaps.


Yeah big statement, Jason's tapping his fingers on his desk wondering who Koetter tells him the final 53 are!

Sit down, I'll have my secretary let you know when its time to approach my desk.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:49 am

real bucs fan wrote:JPP is the LE. Gholston is a designated run stuffing end in goaline type formations. Curry is the RE on 1st and 2nd, and will move inside for Spence on 3rd. I'll be pretty surprised if that's not the situation.


Prepare to be surprised then.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Super K » Tue May 15, 2018 7:12 am

Mdb, I get your cause for concern/conspiracy theory regarding our FAs...

But we've been devoid talent, especially in the trenches, for a long, long time...so it's not like we have a nice little farm system of homegrown wonder kids waiting to play and Licht is benching them for "his guys"...

Honestly, I'd love to get to that level where we have to argue about who plays and why...right now we need some folks out there who don't look like Preseason Game 2 fodder...
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby DreadNaught » Tue May 15, 2018 8:03 am

I'm not sure what I'm missing or where this love for Stevie T comes from? From what I saw in TC/preseason last season StevieT will be lucky to even make the team. With Vea and Allen on the roster there is isn't really a need for the skillset he offers and I'd take both Ward and/or Lambert over StevieT.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Super K » Tue May 15, 2018 8:21 am

DreadNaught wrote:I'm not sure what I'm missing or where this love for Stevie T comes from? From what I saw in TC/preseason last season StevieT will be lucky to even make the team. With Vea and Allen on the roster there is isn't really a need for the skillset he offers and I'd take both Ward and/or Lambert over StevieT.


He's just the token name being tossed around by those(Mdb) arguing about us building the DL through FA opposed to the draft...

Could've used Ward or Lambert just as easily..maybe even Gholston...

Bigger point is, we went out and got Allen, Curry, Unrein, JPP because all those guys suck...
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 15, 2018 8:42 am

real bucs fan wrote:JPP is the LE. Gholston is a designated run stuffing end in goaline type formations. Curry is the RE on 1st and 2nd, and will move inside for Spence on 3rd. I'll be pretty surprised if that's not the situation.


Vea will play DT on 3rd.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:42 am

DreadNaught wrote:I'm not sure what I'm missing or where this love for Stevie T comes from? From what I saw in TC/preseason last season StevieT will be lucky to even make the team. With Vea and Allen on the roster there is isn't really a need for the skillset he offers and I'd take both Ward and/or Lambert over StevieT.



I was just using Stevie as an example. In regards to SK's statement, any concern I have is all because of guaranteed contracts. Hemming ourselves in to get our moneys worth. I dont like the locked in (way early attitude), there actually could be someone (or more) bringing all they got and it shows into this camp.

May the best man win baby.

Also, with the black eye comment - that holds true for the draft picks also. No GM really wants to see their picks go before the first season. It bugs me when late rounders and UDFA's dont pan out, I really hate that.

You can say but mdb what do you expect when your in the riff raff section. I expect it to change because somebody is going to find that talent that sticks and we should copy that effort.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Teitan » Tue May 15, 2018 8:42 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:JPP is the LE. Gholston is a designated run stuffing end in goaline type formations. Curry is the RE on 1st and 2nd, and will move inside for Spence on 3rd. I'll be pretty surprised if that's not the situation.


Vea will play DT on 3rd.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Super K » Tue May 15, 2018 8:50 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:JPP is the LE. Gholston is a designated run stuffing end in goaline type formations. Curry is the RE on 1st and 2nd, and will move inside for Spence on 3rd. I'll be pretty surprised if that's not the situation.


Vea will play DT on 3rd.


People just can't get it through their heads that this guy isn't Vince Wilfork...

Damn straight he'll be at DT on passing downs...
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:09 am

Super K wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Vea will play DT on 3rd.


People just can't get it through their heads that this guy isn't Vince Wilfork...

Damn straight he'll be at DT on passing downs...


Yep. Most fans believe pass rushing DTs are 295 pounds. Taking Vea off the field in those probable passing situations is a favor to the opposing offense.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 15, 2018 9:18 am

Super K wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Vea will play DT on 3rd.


People just can't get it through their heads that this guy isn't Vince Wilfork...

Damn straight he'll be at DT on passing downs...


I just don’t get it. The knock on Vea was he performed best in obvious passing situations. Why would we pull him out of the situations he is best at?
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:19 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Super K wrote:
People just can't get it through their heads that this guy isn't Vince Wilfork...

Damn straight he'll be at DT on passing downs...


I just don’t get it. The knock on Vea was he performed best in obvious passing situations. Why would we pull him out of the situations he is best at?


How was that a knock on him?
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 15, 2018 10:05 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
I just don’t get it. The knock on Vea was he performed best in obvious passing situations. Why would we pull him out of the situations he is best at?


How was that a knock on him?


Some said he saved energy on non passing downs to wreck havoc on passing downs.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:18 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
How was that a knock on him?


Some said he saved energy on non passing downs to wreck havoc on passing downs.


Well he wouldn’t have to do that here. I imagine we will see Beau Allen and Mitch Unrein in on those early downs to preserve Vita. Especially early on. We have the depth to do so now. Either way that’s a damn good knock to have and I wouldn’t be bothered at all by it if he wrecks the passing game.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Doctor » Tue May 15, 2018 11:30 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
How was that a knock on him?


Some said he saved energy on non passing downs to wreck havoc on passing downs.

If he was that much of a monster vs the run while saving energy, hot damn.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby DreadNaught » Tue May 15, 2018 11:42 am

I'm sure Vea will be used on 3rd down passing situations at times. But I imagine with the depth we have (on paper) along the Dline coupled with the fact Vea is a 350lb DT that he won't be playing every snap, in fact I think it's optimistic to say he'll play over 50% as a rookie. Take McCoy as an example, iirc he played on average around 60-65% of the defensive snaps per game when healthy that last season and he's an elite 3 down DT.

So with Vea it's a question of where those 30-40 reps he'll get each game are most effective. Imo it will be on 1st down and other predictable running situations for the most part. But I don't believe Vea will only be used in that way and that he'll never be on the field in 3rd and long situations. I just don't think Vea will be a staple of our 3rd down defense like McCoy and JPP will be.

Since we're speculating about how the Dline rotation will work come this fall, I'd like to see some 3-man Dlines in our sub package w/ Vea at the nose w/ McCoy and JPP. The Bucs have not used much dime personnel (6 DB's) over the years b/c they've stuck with a 4 man Dline and the 2 LBs in a traditional nickel. But with Vea and the influx of DBs we've added I'd like to see some 3-2-6 personnel groupings in certain situations.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 15, 2018 12:53 pm

DreadNaught wrote:I'm sure Vea will be used on 3rd down passing situations at times. But I imagine with the depth we have (on paper) along the Dline coupled with the fact Vea is a 350lb DT that he won't be playing every snap, in fact I think it's optimistic to say he'll play over 50% as a rookie. Take McCoy as an example, iirc he played on average around 60-65% of the defensive snaps per game when healthy that last season and he's an elite 3 down DT.

So with Vea it's a question of where those 30-40 reps he'll get each game are most effective. Imo it will be on 1st down and other predictable running situations for the most part. But I don't believe Vea will only be used in that way and that he'll never be on the field in 3rd and long situations. I just don't think Vea will be a staple of our 3rd down defense like McCoy and JPP will be.

Since we're speculating about how the Dline rotation will work come this fall, I'd like to see some 3-man Dlines in our sub package w/ Vea at the nose w/ McCoy and JPP. The Bucs have not used much dime personnel (6 DB's) over the years b/c they've stuck with a 4 man Dline and the 2 LBs in a traditional nickel. But with Vea and the influx of DBs we've added I'd like to see some 3-2-6 personnel groupings in certain situations.


Our DL looks like the strongest defensive group we have while DB is the weakest. Why would we put fewer DL on the field to put more DBs out there? Vea is a pass rushing DT who will play on obvious passing downs.

Edit: Which 6 DBs would you trust in obvious passing situations?
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:56 pm

My guess is Grimes, Hargreaves, Smith, Stewart at corner. Evans and Conte at safety?? I don't know. A 3-2-6 wouldn't make much sense to me.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:My guess is Grimes, Hargreaves, Smith, Stewart at corner. Evans and Conte at safety?? I don't know. A 3-2-6 wouldn't make much sense to me.


On passing downs I’d rather use all the new DL ark get after the QB rather than hope Hargreaves isn’t a bust and the rookies can hold up.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:01 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:My guess is Grimes, Hargreaves, Smith, Stewart at corner. Evans and Conte at safety?? I don't know. A 3-2-6 wouldn't make much sense to me.


On passing downs I’d rather use all the new DL ark get after the QB rather than hope Hargreaves isn’t a bust and the rookies can hold up.


Likewise. Give me a front of JPP, McCoy, Vea, and either Curry or Spence depending on who you trust more at right end to rush the passer. Figure out the back 7 however you like.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:25 pm

So, how many Alan Cross challengers do we have going now?
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby DreadNaught » Tue May 15, 2018 2:05 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:I'm sure Vea will be used on 3rd down passing situations at times. But I imagine with the depth we have (on paper) along the Dline coupled with the fact Vea is a 350lb DT that he won't be playing every snap, in fact I think it's optimistic to say he'll play over 50% as a rookie. Take McCoy as an example, iirc he played on average around 60-65% of the defensive snaps per game when healthy that last season and he's an elite 3 down DT.

So with Vea it's a question of where those 30-40 reps he'll get each game are most effective. Imo it will be on 1st down and other predictable running situations for the most part. But I don't believe Vea will only be used in that way and that he'll never be on the field in 3rd and long situations. I just don't think Vea will be a staple of our 3rd down defense like McCoy and JPP will be.

Since we're speculating about how the Dline rotation will work come this fall, I'd like to see some 3-man Dlines in our sub package w/ Vea at the nose w/ McCoy and JPP. The Bucs have not used much dime personnel (6 DB's) over the years b/c they've stuck with a 4 man Dline and the 2 LBs in a traditional nickel. But with Vea and the influx of DBs we've added I'd like to see some 3-2-6 personnel groupings in certain situations.


Our DL looks like the strongest defensive group we have while DB is the weakest. Why would we put fewer DL on the field to put more DBs out there? Vea is a pass rushing DT who will play on obvious passing downs.

Edit: Which 6 DBs would you trust in obvious passing situations?


The mention of a 3-2-6 would just be a wrinkle to make our sub packages more multiple. I'm not suggesting going to it full time, or even most of the time. You make a good point about taking DL off the field when it's our strength, but we'd still have our 3 best rushers in there along w/ Kwon and LVD that can be used as a 4th or even 5th rusher that the Oline could have trouble accounting for.

As far as DB's we'll see how it washes out in camp, but I'd say for now that VH3 and MJ Stewart would be the inside/slot CBs w/ Grimes and either Davis or Ryan Smith as the outside CBs. Safeties would be Justin Evans and whoever wins the other spot Conte/Whitehead/etc.

The 3-2-6 would just be wrinkle teams would have to adjust to and offer the a creative defensive playcaller with a variety of blitz options. Or just let those 3 stud Dlinemen rush w/ 8 in coverage where one will get a 1v1.

It's really just something I'd like to see thrown in the mix. I have no doubt the Bucs will have 4 Dlinemen on most down and be in the traditional nickel on sub packages like we've seen for years with this team.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Super K » Tue May 15, 2018 2:22 pm

While I get what you're saying Dread, I'd much rather see us stay with Nickel opposed to Dime and run 3-3-5....

Vea in the middle, Gmac and (take your pick) JPP, Curry, Gholston at DT/DE...

Then run with our 3 LBs, allowing one, or more, to blitz...we could even get Spence in in the action and stand him up some..

Spence stands up on the LOS, then at snap drops into the flat meanwhile LVD rushes the A gap from the other side etc...

I like it...and it keeps the number of rook or trash DBs on the field more limited...
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Caradoc » Tue May 15, 2018 2:34 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Licht isn't making decisions on who gets what snaps.


Yeah big statement, Jason's tapping his fingers on his desk wondering who Koetter tells him the final 53 are!

Sit down, I'll have my secretary let you know when its time to approach my desk.


So that's why Smith is in the booth, so Licht can lean over and tell him what personnel package to use on any given play!

Licht isn't telling Koetter or Smith how many snaps to give. He's giving them a roster and letting them coach. Not a difficult concept if you aren't busy sniffing glue
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:32 am

DreadNaught wrote:I'm sure Vea will be used on 3rd down passing situations at times. But I imagine with the depth we have (on paper) along the Dline coupled with the fact Vea is a 350lb DT that he won't be playing every snap, in fact I think it's optimistic to say he'll play over 50% as a rookie. Take McCoy as an example, iirc he played on average around 60-65% of the defensive snaps per game when healthy that last season and he's an elite 3 down DT.

So with Vea it's a question of where those 30-40 reps he'll get each game are most effective. Imo it will be on 1st down and other predictable running situations for the most part. But I don't believe Vea will only be used in that way and that he'll never be on the field in 3rd and long situations. I just don't think Vea will be a staple of our 3rd down defense like McCoy and JPP will be.

Since we're speculating about how the Dline rotation will work come this fall, I'd like to see some 3-man Dlines in our sub package w/ Vea at the nose w/ McCoy and JPP. The Bucs have not used much dime personnel (6 DB's) over the years b/c they've stuck with a 4 man Dline and the 2 LBs in a traditional nickel. But with Vea and the influx of DBs we've added I'd like to see some 3-2-6 personnel groupings in certain situations.



When and if teams realize it will be tough to run on us 1st and 2nd down the approach will be to go to the pass.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Buc2 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:40 am

mdb1958 wrote:When and if teams realize it will be tough to run on us 1st and 2nd down the approach will be to go to the pass.

Wow. That was some next level **** there, mdb.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby Doctor » Wed May 16, 2018 9:15 am

Buc2 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:When and if teams realize it will be tough to run on us 1st and 2nd down the approach will be to go to the pass.

Wow. That was some next level **** there, mdb.

And borderline readable English.
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:56 am

Doctor wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Wow. That was some next level **** there, mdb.

And borderline readable English.



Where does the comma go Orndorf?
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Re: Buccaneers Road to the Final 53 Thread, 2018 Edition

Postby mdb1958 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:35 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
QB: Winston, Fitzpatrick, Griffen
RB: Jones, Barber, Sims, Rodgers,UDFA/offseason signing/post TC signing
WR: Evans, Jackson, Humpries, Godwin, Watson, Wilson
TE: Brate, Howard, Auclair, Cross
OT: Smith, Dotson, Benenoch, Wester or UDFA/Post TC signing/Trade
OG: Marpet, Sweezy, Cappa
C: Jensen, Smith

DE: Pierre-Paul, Curry, Gholston, Spence, Clarke or UDFA/Post TC signing/Trade
DT: McCoy, Vea, Allen, Unrein, Stevie T
LB: David, Alexander, Beckwith, Taylor, Bond, Lynch or Cichy
CB: Grimes, Hargreaves, Stewart, Davis, Smith, Robinson
S: Evans, Whitehead, Conte, Tandy, Igwebuike

LS: Drew Farris
K: Catanzaro
P: Anger



I like Alan Cross but I think he may have some competition in camp this year.
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