The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:23 am

Brazen331 wrote:Let’s address that second blurb by Charlie Campbell about the Bucs loving Nelson. At first, I just dismissed it out of hand as I see no evidence that we actually would take him at 7.

But the Marpet move may help us here. With his hyper-sensitive ego, we all know the last thing Koetter is going to want to do is admit he made a mistake. If we go into next year with the same lineup at OL, chances are fairly high that we will suck just like last year. Factor in injuries, chances grow higher that the Marpet experiment will look like a bad idea, and pressure could mount to move him back. I don’t think Koetter will be peppered with questions at PCs about moving Marpet with Nelson on the team, especially if he injects some juice in the line and it starts blocking better as a unit.

So maybe a generational G who could help Marpet thrive and actually deliver a push in the run game will be viewed favorably by this FO high in the 1st? One can only hope.


It's a small sample size, but Licht has generally played the first round very safe. Evans, Winston, VHIII, and Howard were all chalk picks. This would strongly, strongly suggest it'll be Nelson.

He seems to take his risks in the 2nd round - ASJ (oops), Donovan Smith, the un-left tackle, Ali Marpet, from Hobart, the ex-Buckeye Noah Spence, the kicker, and this last year the athletic but raw safety.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:36 am

MJW wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:Let’s address that second blurb by Charlie Campbell about the Bucs loving Nelson. At first, I just dismissed it out of hand as I see no evidence that we actually would take him at 7.

But the Marpet move may help us here. With his hyper-sensitive ego, we all know the last thing Koetter is going to want to do is admit he made a mistake. If we go into next year with the same lineup at OL, chances are fairly high that we will suck just like last year. Factor in injuries, chances grow higher that the Marpet experiment will look like a bad idea, and pressure could mount to move him back. I don’t think Koetter will be peppered with questions at PCs about moving Marpet with Nelson on the team, especially if he injects some juice in the line and it starts blocking better as a unit.

So maybe a generational G who could help Marpet thrive and actually deliver a push in the run game will be viewed favorably by this FO high in the 1st? One can only hope.


It's a small sample size, but Licht has generally played the first round very safe. Evans, Winston, VHIII, and Howard were all chalk picks. This would strongly, strongly suggest it'll be Nelson.

He seems to take his risks in the 2nd round - ASJ (oops), Donovan Smith, the un-left tackle, Ali Marpet, from Hobart, the ex-Buckeye Noah Spence, the kicker, and this last year the athletic but raw safety.


Maybe it strongly suggests it’ll be Denzel Ward?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:39 am

If we strikeout on Norwell in FA, then the Nelson pick would make alot of sense. But I think we'd be nuts not to target Norwell and do what we can to sign him.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:42 am

Using the Cameron Brate logic many have used lately, why would the Panthers let a talented player like Norwell even sniff FA?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:48 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Using the Cameron Brate logic many have used lately, why would the Panthers let a talented player like Norwell even sniff FA?

Not many teams can afford to pay a guard top dollar. Good players hit free agency all the time. If they re-sign him, then obviously he's not an option?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:34 am

Good teams find a way to keep good players more often than the other way around.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:35 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Using the Cameron Brate logic many have used lately, why would the Panthers let a talented player like Norwell even sniff FA?

Not many teams can afford to pay a guard top dollar. Good players hit free agency all the time. If they re-sign him, then obviously he's not an option?


I don't think he's on our radar. He'd have to take significantly less to be an option. Licht hasn't used FA as a way to give incoming free agents that large 2nd contract of their careers. He's opted to give the large deals to our own guys. Upon further review I don't think guys like Lawrence, Ansah, Norwell are on our radar.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:36 am

mdb1958 wrote:Good teams find a way to keep good players more often than the other way around.


That too and I just don't see Carolina letting a guy who made 1st team All-Pro walk out of the door without blinking an eye. He'll likely be franchised. They have no other key FAs.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:40 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Using the Cameron Brate logic many have used lately, why would the Panthers let a talented player like Norwell even sniff FA?


Money. They just paid RG Trai Turner big money. Not to mention Center Ryan Khalil is among the highest paid Centers, and his brother Matt just signed a big FA deal last offseason to be the Panthers LT.

Signing Norwell would force the Panthers to have 4/5 starting Olinemen among the highest paid at their position.

Not saying it's impossible, and the tag is an option. But I could see them letting Norwell walk so they get a comp pick in 2019. Then draft someone like Wynn or Hernandez this April to step in.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Cheb » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 pm

In regards to the Panthers letting Norwell walk, the Panthers currently have $20 million in cap space. Seven guards in the NFL make over 10 million per season, and it's easy to assume that Norwell would take at least that much. So basically, will the Panthers spend half of their salary cap on resigning a guard, however good he may be? They will need about $5 million to sign their rookies, and let's say that last $5 million is a cushion for incidental signings during the season. If they do some cap gymnastics, they could certainly do it. However, they be using the majority of their cap space to make him staying in Carolina happen.

I could see it going either way. If they do resign him, then it can be expected that they won't sign anyone who is good related to cost. If they don't resign him, then they get objectively weaker.

I'm not too worried. It'll work itself out.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Cheb wrote:In regards to the Panthers letting Norwell walk, the Panthers currently have $20 million in cap space. Seven guards in the NFL make over 10 million per season, and it's easy to assume that Norwell would take at least that much. So basically, will the Panthers spend half of their salary cap on resigning a guard, however good he may be? They will need about $5 million to sign their rookies, and let's say that last $5 million is a cushion for incidental signings during the season. If they do some cap gymnastics, they could certainly do it. However, they be using the majority of their cap space to make him staying in Carolina happen.

I could see it going either way. If they do resign him, then it can be expected that they won't sign anyone who is good related to cost. If they don't resign him, then they get objectively weaker.

I'm not too worried. It'll work itself out.


Most teams in the league do things we don't do: Give out signing bonuses and backload contracts. Take the aforementioned Trai Turner for instance. Signed a 4yr/$45mil extension last off-season. His cap # in year 1 though was only $3.9mil. This year it'll be just $7.7mil. The last year of that deal though his cap # is $14.5mil. This is how teams can afford to pay multiple top players long term. So what looks like $10mil apy isnt really that.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Hatter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:42 pm

The general consensus on local radio here is that they will let him hit FA and that he is more than likely a goner but who knows for sure? I keep telling the panther fans around here that it is basically a done deal that he goes to us. :lol:
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Hatter wrote:The general consensus on local radio here is that they will let him hit FA and that he is more than likely a goner but who knows for sure? I keep telling the panther fans around here that it is basically a done deal that he goes to us. :lol:


Keeping him would be a huge investment on the interior line for the Panthers. Like Bootz said, they're already paying Trai Turner and they're paying Ryan Kalil. They drafted Taylor Moton in the 2nd last year, and they seem to be set at tackle, which is to say I think they're planning to use him at guard. They're also paying Matt Kalil a ton of money, and they're almost going to have to pay Darryl Williams in a couple of years.

In other words...I will be confused if they re-up Norwell.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:38 pm

MJW wrote:
Hatter wrote:The general consensus on local radio here is that they will let him hit FA and that he is more than likely a goner but who knows for sure? I keep telling the panther fans around here that it is basically a done deal that he goes to us. :lol:


Keeping him would be a huge investment on the interior line for the Panthers. Like Bootz said, they're already paying Trai Turner and they're paying Ryan Kalil. They drafted Taylor Moton in the 2nd last year, and they seem to be set at tackle, which is to say I think they're planning to use him at guard. They're also paying Matt Kalil a ton of money, and they're almost going to have to pay Darryl Williams in a couple of years.

In other words...I will be confused if they re-up Norwell.


Ryan Kalil is retiring after the season. I doubt they'd want to lose 2 top Olinemen in consecutive seasons.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Keeping him would be a huge investment on the interior line for the Panthers. Like Bootz said, they're already paying Trai Turner and they're paying Ryan Kalil. They drafted Taylor Moton in the 2nd last year, and they seem to be set at tackle, which is to say I think they're planning to use him at guard. They're also paying Matt Kalil a ton of money, and they're almost going to have to pay Darryl Williams in a couple of years.

In other words...I will be confused if they re-up Norwell.


Ryan Kalil is retiring after the season. I doubt they'd want to lose 2 top Olinemen in consecutive seasons.


What they want doesn't change the salary cap, or the logical construction of a roster. Matt Kalil is a $7 mil hit next year. Trai Turner is a $7 mil cap hit next year (then $9 mil, then $12 mil, then $14 mil.) Darryl Williams is a stud who will get paid. They have several guys in-house who need extensions soon, led by Devin Funchess. You can't keep everybody.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:42 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Ryan Kalil is retiring after the season. I doubt they'd want to lose 2 top Olinemen in consecutive seasons.


What they want doesn't change the salary cap, or the logical construction of a roster. Matt Kalil is a $7 mil hit next year. Trai Turner is a $7 mil cap hit next year (then $9 mil, then $12 mil, then $14 mil.) Darryl Williams is a stud who will get paid. They have several guys in-house who need extensions soon, led by Devin Funchess. You can't keep everybody.


So why would they opt to keep those guys instead of Norwell, who needs an extension now. They could let the RT, Williams, walk after 2018 if they want but as I stated Kalil won't be there and they currently have $68mil in cap space for the 2019 season. You have no compelling argument. Just a lot of picking and choosing.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:55 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
What they want doesn't change the salary cap, or the logical construction of a roster. Matt Kalil is a $7 mil hit next year. Trai Turner is a $7 mil cap hit next year (then $9 mil, then $12 mil, then $14 mil.) Darryl Williams is a stud who will get paid. They have several guys in-house who need extensions soon, led by Devin Funchess. You can't keep everybody.


So why would they opt to keep those guys instead of Norwell, who needs an extension now. They could let the RT, Williams, walk after 2018 if they want but as I stated Kalil won't be there and they currently have $68mil in cap space for the 2019 season. You have no compelling argument. Just a lot of picking and choosing.


What I have is logic, and the understanding that teams cannot simply invest whatever they want into one unit, *****, sweetheart.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:59 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
So why would they opt to keep those guys instead of Norwell, who needs an extension now. They could let the RT, Williams, walk after 2018 if they want but as I stated Kalil won't be there and they currently have $68mil in cap space for the 2019 season. You have no compelling argument. Just a lot of picking and choosing.


What I have is logic, and the understanding that teams cannot simply invest whatever they want into one unit, *****, sweetheart.


Your logic is selective. Again, why would they opt to let Norwell walk NOW and sign other guys later instead of signing Norwell now and worrying about those guys when the time comes? You're not making any sense there.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:05 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
What I have is logic, and the understanding that teams cannot simply invest whatever they want into one unit, *****, sweetheart.


Your logic is selective. Again, why would they opt to let Norwell walk NOW and sign other guys later instead of signing Norwell now and worrying about those guys when the time comes? You're not making any sense there.


Because Darryl Williams is a stud right tackle, sweetheart, and he'll need to get paid in the next two years, and that's more important than a guard. Because Trai Turner ALREADY got paid, and so did Matt Kalil. Even when Ryan Kalil leaves, they're still looking three expensive offensive linemen.

Of your many gaps in logic, one of the more prominent is that you don't seem to understand that the salary cap is a thing, and smart teams don't devote enormous chunks of it to one unit, k!ddo. Having two of the highest paid guards in the league, along with an expensive left tackle, and a right tackle who needs to get paid, is not the formula for a balance roster, sweetheart.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:14 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Your logic is selective. Again, why would they opt to let Norwell walk NOW and sign other guys later instead of signing Norwell now and worrying about those guys when the time comes? You're not making any sense there.


Because Darryl Williams is a stud right tackle, sweetheart, and he'll need to get paid in the next two years, and that's more important than a guard. Because Trai Turner ALREADY got paid, and so did Matt Kalil. Even when Ryan Kalil leaves, they're still looking three expensive offensive linemen.

Of your many gaps in logic, one of the more prominent is that you don't seem to understand that the salary cap is a thing, and smart teams don't devote enormous chunks of it to one unit, k!ddo. Having two of the highest paid guards in the league, along with an expensive left tackle, and a right tackle who needs to get paid, is not the formula for a balance roster, sweetheart.


A stud RT is more important than a LG.....Yet people want to sign Norwell to what would be a record breaking contract. Perfect logic. You mentioned Taylor Moton. He'd be more likely to replace Williams after this season than he would Norwell now because....wait for it....HE'S A RT ON THAT TEAM, NOT A LEFT GUARD. Your selective logic is again making you look like a fool, hun.

And a stud Oline is a recipe for success
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:17 am

MJW wrote:
Of your many gaps in logic, one of the more prominent is that you don't seem to understand that the salary cap is a thing, and smart teams don't devote enormous chunks of it to one unit, k!ddo. Having two of the highest paid guards in the league, along with an expensive left tackle, and a right tackle who needs to get paid, is not the formula for a balance roster, sweetheart.


Again, selective logic. You seem to think paying 2 tackles top dollar is different than paying 2 guards...But okay, like I said. selective logic. Keep it up, hun.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Because Darryl Williams is a stud right tackle, sweetheart, and he'll need to get paid in the next two years, and that's more important than a guard. Because Trai Turner ALREADY got paid, and so did Matt Kalil. Even when Ryan Kalil leaves, they're still looking three expensive offensive linemen.

Of your many gaps in logic, one of the more prominent is that you don't seem to understand that the salary cap is a thing, and smart teams don't devote enormous chunks of it to one unit, k!ddo. Having two of the highest paid guards in the league, along with an expensive left tackle, and a right tackle who needs to get paid, is not the formula for a balance roster, sweetheart.


A stud RT is more important than a LG.....Yet people want to sign Norwell to what would be a record breaking contract. Perfect logic. You mentioned Taylor Moton. He'd be more likely to replace Williams after this season than he would Norwell now because....wait for it....HE'S A RT ON THAT TEAM, NOT A LEFT GUARD. Your selective logic is again making you look like a fool, hun.

And a stud Oline is a recipe for success


WTF does Andrew Norwell's potential contract have to do with right tackles?

And apparently you're as full of **** about watching the Panthers as you are the Dolphins. Williams had a great year. They're not replacing him anytime soon. He was one of the best RT's I saw last year.

I happen to agree, a stud OL is a recipe for success, but it doesn't change that there is a salary cap that a team must adhere to. Saying, "Letting so and so go doesn't make sense!" isn't an argument when you're making zero effort to understand resource limitations.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:20 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Of your many gaps in logic, one of the more prominent is that you don't seem to understand that the salary cap is a thing, and smart teams don't devote enormous chunks of it to one unit, k!ddo. Having two of the highest paid guards in the league, along with an expensive left tackle, and a right tackle who needs to get paid, is not the formula for a balance roster, sweetheart.


Again, selective logic. You seem to think paying 2 tackles top dollar is different than paying 2 guards...But okay, like I said. selective logic. Keep it up, hun.


So you're saying tackles aren't more important than guards? SMDH.

Did your dad fill up your sippy cup with the blue stuff the combs were kept in when you were a kid?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:26 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
A stud RT is more important than a LG.....Yet people want to sign Norwell to what would be a record breaking contract. Perfect logic. You mentioned Taylor Moton. He'd be more likely to replace Williams after this season than he would Norwell now because....wait for it....HE'S A RT ON THAT TEAM, NOT A LEFT GUARD. Your selective logic is again making you look like a fool, hun.

And a stud Oline is a recipe for success


WTF does Andrew Norwell's potential contract have to do with right tackles?

And apparently you're as full of **** about watching the Panthers as you are the Dolphins. Williams had a great year. They're not replacing him anytime soon. He was one of the best RT's I saw last year.

I happen to agree, a stud OL is a recipe for success, but it doesn't change that there is a salary cap that a team must adhere to. Saying, "Letting so and so go doesn't make sense!" isn't an argument when you're making zero effort to understand resource limitations.


Williams is a FA at the end of this season. They could very well let him walk if they feel good about Moton. You seem to think a guy who's a RT can hop right into the LG spot.

And at the same token, Norwell is one of the best guards in football. In fact he was the absolute best in football last season. The Panthers aren't letting him walk without a fight. Why would they?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:28 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
WTF does Andrew Norwell's potential contract have to do with right tackles?

And apparently you're as full of **** about watching the Panthers as you are the Dolphins. Williams had a great year. They're not replacing him anytime soon. He was one of the best RT's I saw last year.

I happen to agree, a stud OL is a recipe for success, but it doesn't change that there is a salary cap that a team must adhere to. Saying, "Letting so and so go doesn't make sense!" isn't an argument when you're making zero effort to understand resource limitations.


Williams is a FA at the end of this season. They could very well let him walk if they feel good about Moton. You seem to think a guy who's a RT can hop right into the LG spot.

And at the same token, Norwell is one of the best guards in football. In fact he was the absolute best in football last season. The Panthers aren't letting him walk without a fight. Why would they?


Limited resources, and because tackles are more important than guards, and because they're already paying one guard top dollar. Letting Norwell walk is the smart play. They'll get a 3rd and they have replacement options at the ready.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:31 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Again, selective logic. You seem to think paying 2 tackles top dollar is different than paying 2 guards...But okay, like I said. selective logic. Keep it up, hun.


So you're saying tackles aren't more important than guards? SMDH.

Did your dad fill up your sippy cup with the blue stuff the combs were kept in when you were a kid?


G>RT. Don't start trying to put words in my mouth. The NFL agrees too.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:38 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Williams is a FA at the end of this season. They could very well let him walk if they feel good about Moton. You seem to think a guy who's a RT can hop right into the LG spot.

And at the same token, Norwell is one of the best guards in football. In fact he was the absolute best in football last season. The Panthers aren't letting him walk without a fight. Why would they?


Limited resources, and because tackles are more important than guards, and because they're already paying one guard top dollar. Letting Norwell walk is the smart play. They'll get a 3rd and they have replacement options at the ready.


Again, OVER EXAGGERATING!!! Trai Turner is the 14th highest paid guard in football. His cap number is $7.7mil. That's not top dollar for a guard. Top dollar is $12.4 that Kevin Zeitler is getting or $11mil Brandon Brooks is getting. Not too far from Turner is JR Sweezy making $5.8mil this year. By your logic we'd be paying 2 guards "top dollar" if we signed Norwell. So like I said, SELECTIVE LOGIC. You really don't care about making women who like sports look bad. Perhaps YOUR dad should've made you stay home in the kitchen to learn how to keep house instead of....whatever it was he let you do.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Alpha » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 am

Brazen331 wrote:At first, I just dismissed it out of hand as I see no evidence that we actually would take him at 7.


I'm just curious...

What evidence do you have as to whom we would take at #7?

I mean...you clearly have some "inside skinny" as to whom we would take...right?

Oh...my bad. You're just opining and talking out of your ass.

There is MASSIVE reason to take Nelson, if he falls to us.

The interwebz is an awesome thing...where dudes like Brazen can just talk ****...without ANY kind of proof/evidence/logic to back up what they're saying.

Brazen...go take your bush league bullshit somewhere else.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:03 am

Tidbit: The Broncos have 9 picks, an extra 4th and an extra 5th.

The 49ers have 9 picks, with two 3rds and two 7ths.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:42 am

Not that you want to do it!

If we did jet Chubb at 7, what scenario could you come up with that would allow us to get one of Buffalo's 1st's so we could get Davenport too. Do we have anybody on our roster that could be paired with a first next year?
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