CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

[mdb1958]

Nothing about what sense you may or may not have would be called common.

Perfect example! In two seconds 20 people agreed with you, but my common sense tells me your all full of crap. And you cant figure out no rhyme or reason why all of society is leaning that way.

[Buc2]

Oh, ****ing wah, this thread. Trump is no more incompetent than Obama was. If you truly believe he's stupid and incompetent, then you had to have believed the same about Obama. The only thing Trump does that people get all pissy about is play Twitter games to keep the lapdog media yapping about him. And it works. I also don't care for his Twitter games, but I've seen nothing to indicate this man is either stupid or incompetent. Undesirable? Perhaps. But that's a completely different adjective.

[Mountaineer Buc]

Oh, ****ing wah, this thread. Trump is no more incompetent than Obama was. If you truly believe he's stupid and incompetent, then you had to have believed the same about Obama. The only thing Trump does that people get all pissy about is play Twitter games to keep the lapdog media yapping about him. And it works. I also don't care for his Twitter games, but I've seen nothing to indicate this man is either stupid or incompetent. Undesirable? Perhaps. But that's a completely different adjective.

You wish.

Only somebody completely wrapped up in the echo chamber circle-jerk could come even remotely close to that conclusion.

[Buc2]

Oh, ****ing wah, this thread. Trump is no more incompetent than Obama was. If you truly believe he's stupid and incompetent, then you had to have believed the same about Obama. The only thing Trump does that people get all pissy about is play Twitter games to keep the lapdog media yapping about him. And it works. I also don't care for his Twitter games, but I've seen nothing to indicate this man is either stupid or incompetent. Undesirable? Perhaps. But that's a completely different adjective.

You wish.

Only somebody completely wrapped up in the echo chamber circle-jerk could come even remotely close to that conclusion.

Whatever you say. You know it all.

[RedLeader]

This thread is gold! Gold, I tell you!



And how does MB not pop up more in the ‘Somebody’s having a meltdown” thread?! Lol.

[Mountaineer Buc]

This thread is gold! Gold, I tell you!



And how does MB not pop up more in the ‘Somebody’s having a meltdown” thread?! Lol.

Umm. Cuz it wasn't a meltdown?

[Brazen331]

I really wish Trump would have fired Mueller you guys. I know how bad you wanted it to happen before the entire investigation loses all its legitimacy, if it is ever had any. Now we are down to he tried, or he wanted to, or he once entertained the thought of firing Mueller. Sorry, doesn’t look like it will happen. It was like your only way to save face.

[deltbucs]

Oh, ****ing wah, this thread. Trump is no more incompetent than Obama was.

I hate Obama as much as the next guy, but you can't actually believe this. LOL!!!

[Swashy]

Oh, ****ing wah, this thread. Trump is no more incompetent than Obama was. If you truly believe he's stupid and incompetent, then you had to have believed the same about Obama. The only thing Trump does that people get all pissy about is play Twitter games to keep the lapdog media yapping about him. And it works. I also don't care for his Twitter games, but I've seen nothing to indicate this man is either stupid or incompetent. Undesirable? Perhaps. But that's a completely different adjective.

What about Obama's presidency was incompetent to begin with? Healthcare reform? The death of Bin Laden? Slowing the bleeding of the recession? The increase of minimum wage? Continuing the Bush tax cuts? Passing marriage for the LGBT community?

[Buc2]

The Good:
Authorized the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden
Commended and supported the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage
Reversed U.S. torture policies
Boosted fuel efficiency standards
Began Asia “Pivot”

The Bad:
Facilitated illegal immigration
ObamaCare
The stimulus didn’t stimulate
Financial reform didn’t reform
Ignored the threat of a resurgent Russian dictatorship

And The Ugly:
Nearly doubled the national debt
Lost a war we had already won in Iraq
Blew the Arab Spring
Made America irrelevant
Encouraged racial polarization

[mdb1958]

8 years of feeling all warm and cozy

[RedLeader]

This thread is gold! Gold, I tell you!



And how does MB not pop up more in the ‘Somebody’s having a meltdown” thread?! Lol.

Umm. Cuz it wasn't a meltdown?

[Ken Carson]

Actually, you might be wrong here and I think you probably know it. If Mueller has video of Trump delivering cash in a satchel to Putin we all know he would be impeached or he would resign like Nixon. But that has nothing to do with this case, does it? The problem is there is no evidence because there was never any evidence to find. It was a sham, fake, witch-hunting attempt to find something, anything to begin with. And even if there was some evidence of collusion or whatever, there is no statute on the books to charge a crime with.

So we are at the point where we are: trying to form some obstruction of justice case for the firing of Flynn and Comey. Based on what? The fact that Trump told Lester Holt in an interview that he fired Comey in part because of a ‘Russia thing?’ But Comey already testified that Trump is a liar; he had to write everything down because Trump never tells the truth. And in the same testimony he said he believes he was fired because of Russia because that’s what Trump told Holt. The only time he has ever told the truth I guess. How convenient.

So I can see why you’ve had enough and don’t want to hear about the case anymore. You’ve been waiting patiently with your fork and knife listening to that sizzle sound the media and Democrats have been sending you from their communal grill. Now it’s looking like your not going to be able to dig in to that steak because there was never an actual steak there; it was just a recording of grilling steak and you’re looking down at an empty plate.

Shut up, fool.

I didn't stop giving a **** about this investigation because I think there's nothing there. Of course there's something there. Anybody with half a brain knows there's something there.

But I'm not going to wait around for Meuller to indict this trainwreck of a President. I'm moving on to winning in 2018 and 2020. Because outside the beltway there are problems that need to be fixed and even CNN is more interested in the "Shitbag quote of the day." rather than what affects real people and what should be done about it.

Republicans have no answers. They never have. They need to go the **** on. The Hillary wing of the DNC gives lip service and half assed bandaid solutions because they have a less symptomatic version of the same disease. They need to go the **** on too.

To summarize, I'm done listening to your oompa loompa President who can't even have the sack to do the honorable thing and admit that he's in over his head. Rather than work against him, I'll work around him. He's too goddamned incompetent to do much more damage than he already has short of launching nukes.

Enjoy your shitshow, I'll be getting ready for November.

This is where I've been for 6-8 months. Reminding me of 2004 all over again. The whole focus of the party is on who to blam for the loss and hat the election was stolen. You CAN'T lose another election because of losing a previous election. That's just what Dems did in 2004. We need a coherent message that has broad, mainstream appeal. Or we risk another debacle. Time is running out.

[NYBF]

Encouraged racial polarization

[Swashy]

The Good:
Authorized the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden Someone had to. Obama is lucky here
Commended and supported the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage About ****ing time... let homosexual couples be happy like "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" says
Reversed U.S. torture policies It's sad that he ever had to
Boosted fuel efficiency standards About ****ing time...
Began Asia “Pivot” I cannot say I followed this closely but by everything I've seen Obama hasn't done such a great job

The Bad:
Facilitated illegal immigration Facilitated? He didn't drive illegals over the border
ObamaCare Taking measures to provide healthcare to people who could not afford it and did not have it is a BAD thing?
The stimulus didn’t stimulate tell that to the newly hired employees in the non-private sector. And for what it's worth we do not have the business infrastructure for a stimulus to work. The only thing that gets stimulated is more sweat shops in China. We don't make our own **** anymore
Financial reform didn’t reform It was never going to
Ignored the threat of a resurgent Russian dictatorship As opposed to what, being his buddy? If we start BS with Putin it would've started a Cold War all over again. It was best we left him alone. There was little we could do in regards to Putin that would've made anything better.

And The Ugly:
Nearly doubled the national debt And yet the federal deficit was cut in half
Lost a war we had already won in Iraq We lost? I'd need a specific example. But otherwise we pulled out. The consequences of the Arab Spring his Iraq as hard as anyone. It's a HUGE deal but that's not an Obama thing. C'mon man.
Blew the Arab Spring This is probably your best argument but like Putin, how were we going to intervene? Can you imagine if we did? We're having a hard enough time with our own government being run correctly. Now someone else's?
Made America irrelevant We stopped being relevant LONG ago. Ask a Conservative we haven't been relevant since H.W Bush. Ask a liberal and they'll tell you we stopped being relevant when we didn't find any WMDS?
Encouraged racial polarization The media does that for us and US citizens do it to each other even on message boards. C'mon man...

All in all I see your side of the story, but really all Obama did was live up to his campaign promises and institute changes and a couple of them fall under the "bad". Changes like same sex marriage and healthcare reform. should have happened a long time ago. Because of this, Obama will go down as one of the better presidents we have had. Over the next generation he'll probably hover somewhere around the 12 to 16 range but were it not for the immense social opportunities left for him to pounce on he would not have been nearly as effective.

If there's any major weakness Obama is a social idealist as opposed to a global leader and economic management. In terms of managing the economy and crisis of the recession he just didn't make things worse. I'll say it again... he continued the Bush tax cuts and yet he found himself attacked for favoring the 0.01% and increasing the loss of the middle class

There's nothing about this that is a debacle. Trump has not lived up to the wall, Trump has not lived up to reforming Obama care and his cabinet has been plagued with change. It's not a good look. It's really now

[DreadNaught]

Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe has resigned. He originally planned to retire later this year and his stepping down was not in any plans as of Friday afternoon.

Over the weekend FBI Director Wray made it over to Capital Hill to read this much ballyhooed FISA abuse memo of which there is a vote to make public today. Within hours we get this news on McCabe, who had been rumored to be implicated in the memo as cooperating with FusionGPS (the political research firm that authored the pissgate dossier about Trump) to get the FISA warrant against he Trump campaign.

McCabe had a questionable incident regarding campaign donations for his wife not long ago as well.

According to the GOP conspiracy; The Clinton campaign funded FusionGPS to author this pissgate dossier, which was then used by the Obama DoJ to authorize a FISA warrant allowing them to spy on the the Trump campaign. Which (basically) breaks down to our former President allowing the intelligence committee to be politicized and leveraged against a political opponent.

If true (and depending on how much), I think this is just another example of Obama being a puppet of a President like the Bushes and Clinton and allowing the DC establishment to wield power unchecked.

Has anyone done more to tarnish Obama's Presidential legacy than Hillary Clinton? She arguably started, or was one of the first to mention the whole 'birther' nonsense w/ Obama country of birth back in the '08 primaries before letting the GOP run with it after she lost to Obama in that primary (despite Hillary winning the "popular vote" in those primaries ), in her role as SoS for Obama she destabilized parts of the ME including over-throwing a regime in Libya (where there is now an actual SLAVE trade in 2018) which created a vacuum that allowed ISIS to grow larger than ever before, she cheated in her own primary in '12 against Bernie, and couldn't even beat Trump despite have the media and DC elites in her corner and spending over 2x as much. In the process of this humiliating defeat to Trump she (her campaign) may have (allegedly) been the catalyst for the worst political scandal since Watergate. If this is true it will tarnish Obama since it was his DoJ doing the Clinton's bidding. SAD...

[Buc2]

Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe has resigned. He originally planned to retire later this year and his stepping down was not in any plans as of Friday afternoon.

Over the weekend FBI Director Wray made it over to Capital Hill to read this much ballyhooed FISA abuse memo of which there is a vote to make public today. Within hours we get this news on McCabe, who had been rumored to be implicated in the memo as cooperating with FusionGPS (the political research firm that authored the pissgate dossier about Trump) to get the FISA warrant against he Trump campaign.

McCabe had a questionable incident regarding campaign donations for his wife not long ago as well.

According to the GOP conspiracy; The Clinton campaign funded FusionGPS to author this pissgate dossier, which was then used by the Obama DoJ to authorize a FISA warrant allowing them to spy on the the Trump campaign. Which (basically) breaks down to our former President allowing the intelligence committee to be politicized and leveraged against a political opponent.

If true (and depending on how much), I think this is just another example of Obama being a puppet of a President like the Bushes and Clinton and allowing the DC establishment to wield power unchecked.

Has anyone done more to tarnish Obama's Presidential legacy than Hillary Clinton? She arguably started, or was one of the first to mention the whole 'birther' nonsense w/ Obama country of birth back in the '08 primaries before letting the GOP run with it after she lost to Obama in that primary (despite Hillary winning the "popular vote" in those primaries ), in her role as SoS for Obama she destabilized parts of the ME including over-throwing a regime in Libya (where there is now an actual SLAVE trade in 2018) which created a vacuum that allowed ISIS to grow larger than ever before, she cheated in her own primary in '12 against Bernie, and couldn't even beat Trump despite have the media and DC elites in her corner and spending over 2x as much. In the process of this humiliating defeat to Trump she (her campaign) may have (allegedly) been the catalyst for the worst political scandal since Watergate. If this is true it will tarnish Obama since it was his DoJ doing the Clinton's bidding. SAD...

Are these your words, DN, or did you find this from another source?

[The Outsider]

Hey Trumpettes, I have a question. A two-part question.
If it all comes out that the investigation is legit, Trump is compromised, or even just found to have obstructed said investigation, and the evidence is there to prove it are you going to admit you were wrong? Or have you already made up your mind on the matter?

I only ask because it seems like a ton of Trump supporters live in an alternate reality and I was curious as to whether you guys construct your fantasies in advance or whether you guys do mental gymnastics on the fly.

[Buc2]

Hey Trumpettes, I have a question. A two-part question.
If it all comes out that the investigation is legit, Trump is compromised, or even just found to have obstructed said investigation, and the evidence is there to prove it are you going to admit you were wrong? Or have you already made up your mind on the matter?

I only ask because it seems like a ton of Trump supporters live in an alternate reality and I was curious as to whether you guys construct your fantasies in advance or whether you guys do mental gymnastics on the fly.

1st question: No, because I have not made up my mind if any of this is true or not.
2nd question: No (see answer to 1st question).

[DreadNaught]

Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe has resigned. He originally planned to retire later this year and his stepping down was not in any plans as of Friday afternoon.

Over the weekend FBI Director Wray made it over to Capital Hill to read this much ballyhooed FISA abuse memo of which there is a vote to make public today. Within hours we get this news on McCabe, who had been rumored to be implicated in the memo as cooperating with FusionGPS (the political research firm that authored the pissgate dossier about Trump) to get the FISA warrant against he Trump campaign.

McCabe had a questionable incident regarding campaign donations for his wife not long ago as well.

According to the GOP conspiracy; The Clinton campaign funded FusionGPS to author this pissgate dossier, which was then used by the Obama DoJ to authorize a FISA warrant allowing them to spy on the the Trump campaign. Which (basically) breaks down to our former President allowing the intelligence committee to be politicized and leveraged against a political opponent.

If true (and depending on how much), I think this is just another example of Obama being a puppet of a President like the Bushes and Clinton and allowing the DC establishment to wield power unchecked.

Has anyone done more to tarnish Obama's Presidential legacy than Hillary Clinton? She arguably started, or was one of the first to mention the whole 'birther' nonsense w/ Obama country of birth back in the '08 primaries before letting the GOP run with it after she lost to Obama in that primary (despite Hillary winning the "popular vote" in those primaries ), in her role as SoS for Obama she destabilized parts of the ME including over-throwing a regime in Libya (where there is now an actual SLAVE trade in 2018) which created a vacuum that allowed ISIS to grow larger than ever before, she cheated in her own primary in '12 against Bernie, and couldn't even beat Trump despite have the media and DC elites in her corner and spending over 2x as much. In the process of this humiliating defeat to Trump she (her campaign) may have (allegedly) been the catalyst for the worst political scandal since Watergate. If this is true it will tarnish Obama since it was his DoJ doing the Clinton's bidding. SAD...

Are these your words, DN, or did you find this from another source?

These are my words, but McCabe resigning is being reported by everyone.

If I'm quoting from a source I try to always put it in quotes and cite the source by name and/or LINK.

[Buc2]

Hey NeverTrumpers, I have a question. A two-part question.

If it all comes out that the investigation was not legit, Trump was never compromised, or even found to have obstructed said investigation, and the evidence is not there to prove he did, are you going to admit you were wrong? Or have you already made up your mind on the matter?

I only ask because it seems like a ton of NeverTrump supporters live in an alternate reality and I was curious as to whether you guys construct your fantasies in advance or whether you guys do mental gymnastics on the fly.

[Buc2]

These are my words, but McCabe resigning is being reported by everyone.

If I'm quoting from a source I try to always put it in quotes and cite the source by name and/or LINK.

Yes, I know McCabe is resigning. I just wasn't sure if your post was from something you had read or if it was your own. Thanks for clarifying.

[Brazen331]

Hey Trumpettes, I have a question. A two-part question.
If it all comes out that the investigation is legit, Trump is compromised, or even just found to have obstructed said investigation, and the evidence is there to prove it are you going to admit you were wrong? Or have you already made up your mind on the matter?

I only ask because it seems like a ton of Trump supporters live in an alternate reality and I was curious as to whether you guys construct your fantasies in advance or whether you guys do mental gymnastics on the fly.

I think they have pretty much given up on the Russian treason fantasy and are going for an obstruction case if they actually go after something.

But here's the thing, we are probably going to get a second special prosecutor appointed to basically investigate the investigation. Do you really think Mueller is going to cause a Constitutional crisis by trying to charge Trump with obstruction for firing Comey, with all his baggage and how much he and the minions around him have been compromised? I doubt Rosenstein remains in his job for long once his role is exposed.

All this crap began by Trump stupidly appointing Sessions to be AG. I do think the Dems are well deserving of the **** blowback they are about to get. You lost, fair and square. You even had a billion more dollars to spend and still lost. You should have just sucked it up and moved on, use it as motivation to win next time. But you had to whine and bitch and try to finagle a mulligan, doesn't look like it's going to work.

[The Outsider]

Hey Trumpettes, I have a question. A two-part question.
If it all comes out that the investigation is legit, Trump is compromised, or even just found to have obstructed said investigation, and the evidence is there to prove it are you going to admit you were wrong? Or have you already made up your mind on the matter?

I only ask because it seems like a ton of Trump supporters live in an alternate reality and I was curious as to whether you guys construct your fantasies in advance or whether you guys do mental gymnastics on the fly.

I think they have pretty much given up on the Russian treason fantasy and are going for an obstruction case if they actually go after something.

But here's the thing, we are probably going to get a second special prosecutor appointed to basically investigate the investigation. Do you really think Mueller is going to cause a Constitutional crisis by trying to charge Trump with obstruction for firing Comey, with all his baggage and how much he and the minions around him have been compromised? I doubt Rosenstein remains in his job for long once his role is exposed.

All this crap began by Trump stupidly appointing Sessions to be AG. I do think the Dems are well deserving of the **** blowback they are about to get. You lost, fair and square. You even had a billion more dollars to spend and still lost. You should have just sucked it up and moved on, use it as motivation to win next time. But you had to whine and bitch and try to finagle a mulligan, doesn't look like it's going to work.

I was always curious as to why Mueller's investigation needed to be investigated. It clearly isn't partisan. The man is a conservative and a Republican. As for Russia, it's there. There is plenty of evidence that has been published by reputable outlets. Whether or not Trump is personally implicated is another thing. He very well could just be a useful idiot in all of this. But hell, just in the last couple of weeks there have been connections drawn between the inflow of Russian money and the NRA which may have been funneling it to Reublican campaigns.

Honestly, my big concern with all of this is that our election was clearly compromised. I would want that investigated even if that meddling lead to my preferred candidate winning. I care a lot more about the integrity of our Republic far more than I care about who sits in the Oval Office.

Edit: Actually, and ironically, 45 sort of caused a Constitutional crisis today. See when a legislative body passes a bill 98-2, said bill is then signed in to law, and finally the President refuses to actually enact said law despite not vetoing it earlier. That is what happened today. A "law and order" President, unless it comes to him of course.

Edit 2: Disregard the part about him not vetoing it earlier. It appears this kind of legislation does not afford the Executive Branch veto powers.

[uscbucsfan]

I think they have pretty much given up on the Russian treason fantasy and are going for an obstruction case if they actually go after something.

But here's the thing, we are probably going to get a second special prosecutor appointed to basically investigate the investigation. Do you really think Mueller is going to cause a Constitutional crisis by trying to charge Trump with obstruction for firing Comey, with all his baggage and how much he and the minions around him have been compromised? I doubt Rosenstein remains in his job for long once his role is exposed.

All this crap began by Trump stupidly appointing Sessions to be AG. I do think the Dems are well deserving of the **** blowback they are about to get. You lost, fair and square. You even had a billion more dollars to spend and still lost. You should have just sucked it up and moved on, use it as motivation to win next time. But you had to whine and bitch and try to finagle a mulligan, doesn't look like it's going to work.

Honestly, my big concern with all of this is that our election was clearly compromised. I would want that investigated even if that meddling lead to my preferred candidate winning. I care a lot more about the integrity of our Republic far more than I care about who sits in the Oval Office.

Define compromised? I don't think it's clear or ever can be proven that this affected the outcome of the election. IE Russia was not the reason Trump won. I'm no Trump supporter, but I've never had a big issue with any of the main claims in this thread. It's about the same degree of fucked up-ness that Hillary's private e-mail server scandal was. At the end of the day, nothing will happen of merit regarding the most interesting party, each side will remain in their positions and things will likely continue on. At the end of the day most of this is about information that was put out there, much of it true information, that the left is claiming that is unfair under the guise of foreign influence.

Do I think we operate in the same facet as Russia did in elections all over the world? Absolutely, I think few would dispute that. All Politicians are crooked and corrupt and try to manipulate the public with truth or half-truths. The whole thing is politics. If enough is found that actually impeaches Trump, then I'll still feel the same way about the original issue, but I'll admit that I'm wrong that it feels like a bloated waste of tax payers money that will drag on for years ala Benghazi/e-mailgate.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, if Mueller had enough about Trump to convince Congress to Impeach him, I'd absolutely support it.

[The Outsider]

Honestly, my big concern with all of this is that our election was clearly compromised. I would want that investigated even if that meddling lead to my preferred candidate winning. I care a lot more about the integrity of our Republic far more than I care about who sits in the Oval Office.

Define compromised? I don't think it's clear or ever can be proven that this affected the outcome of the election. IE Russia was not the reason Trump won. I'm no Trump supporter, but I've never had a big issue with any of the main claims in this thread. It's about the same degree of fucked up-ness that Hillary's private e-mail server scandal was. At the end of the day, nothing will happen of merit regarding the most interesting party, each side will remain in their positions and things will likely continue on. At the end of the day most of this is about information that was put out there, much of it true information, that the left is claiming that is unfair under the guise of foreign influence.

Do I think we operate in the same facet as Russia did in elections all over the world? Absolutely, I think few would dispute that. All Politicians are crooked and corrupt and try to manipulate the public with truth or half-truths. The whole thing is politics. If enough is found that actually impeaches Trump, then I'll still feel the same way about the original issue, but I'll admit that I'm wrong that it feels like a bloated waste of tax payers money that will drag on for years ala Benghazi/e-mailgate.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, if Mueller had enough about Trump to convince Congress to Impeach him, I'd absolutely support it.

I think that massive amounts of propaganda were pushed via social media. I believe voter registration systems in a few states for sure were compromised. I'm not saying anything like vote changing happened, though. My issue with Trump is that there are some indications in data regarding his and his family's business dealings among other coincidences that don't make it unreasonable to at least want to see if he was given financial support from Russia. I also think, from these same articles and the interesting fact that both the DNC and RNC were hacked and yet only damaging information on the Democrats was leaked, that it is possible that some of the Republican leadership in our legislature is in the same spot.

That concerns the **** out of me. I very well could be wrong, but I've been following this very, very closely since the election and while I was skeptical at first there have been far too many coincidences and far too much strange behavior by some Republican legislators and the White House for me to not believe it's the smoke to the proverbial fire. At the same time if nothing comes of it I'll accept that and just generically bitch about a President I don't like until I have the opportunity to vote someone else in.

Also, of course I believe we do the same **** to other countries. Doesn't mean I want them doing it to us without us at least looking in to it and trying to do something about it. Same way I'd rather not have, say, Syria drone striking us.

[uscbucsfan]

Define compromised? I don't think it's clear or ever can be proven that this affected the outcome of the election. IE Russia was not the reason Trump won. I'm no Trump supporter, but I've never had a big issue with any of the main claims in this thread. It's about the same degree of fucked up-ness that Hillary's private e-mail server scandal was. At the end of the day, nothing will happen of merit regarding the most interesting party, each side will remain in their positions and things will likely continue on. At the end of the day most of this is about information that was put out there, much of it true information, that the left is claiming that is unfair under the guise of foreign influence.

Do I think we operate in the same facet as Russia did in elections all over the world? Absolutely, I think few would dispute that. All Politicians are crooked and corrupt and try to manipulate the public with truth or half-truths. The whole thing is politics. If enough is found that actually impeaches Trump, then I'll still feel the same way about the original issue, but I'll admit that I'm wrong that it feels like a bloated waste of tax payers money that will drag on for years ala Benghazi/e-mailgate.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, if Mueller had enough about Trump to convince Congress to Impeach him, I'd absolutely support it.

I think that massive amounts of propaganda were pushed via social media. I believe voter registration systems in a few states for sure were compromised. I'm not saying anything like vote changing happened, though. My issue with Trump is that there are some indications in data regarding his and his family's business dealings among other coincidences that don't make it unreasonable to at least want to see if he was given financial support from Russia. I also think, from these same articles and the interesting fact that both the DNC and RNC were hacked and yet only damaging information on the Democrats was leaked, that it is possible that some of the Republican leadership in our legislature is in the same spot.

That concerns the **** out of me. I very well could be wrong, but I've been following this very, very closely since the election and while I was skeptical at first there have been far too many coincidences and far too much strange behavior by some Republican legislators and the White House for me to not believe it's the smoke to the proverbial fire. At the same time if nothing comes of it I'll accept that and just generically bitch about a President I don't like until I have the opportunity to vote someone else in.

Also, of course I believe we do the same **** to other countries. Doesn't mean I want them doing it to us without us at least looking in to it and trying to do something about it. Same way I'd rather not have, say, Syria drone striking us.

The voter registration/polling machine compromise is still up in the air, but regarding the money. You think Hillary doesn't have some evil donating money? I mean it's major politics. It's ****ing crooked. The Clinton Foundation is exhibit A...

This isn't about whatabisms for me, because I'm actually pulling a Clinton private server defense as, "everybody does it". After the election we went through, "Clinton won the popular vote" to "Let's eliminate the electoral college" to this...Which is just like Obama Hussein the Muslim to fake birth certificate...it isn't much more about that for me.

Clinton, the DNC, other republicans all tried to fight dirty too with Dossiers, sexual misconducts, etc. They may or may not have received that information from a foreign government, but it's all in the same fucked up vein.

[The Outsider]

I think that massive amounts of propaganda were pushed via social media. I believe voter registration systems in a few states for sure were compromised. I'm not saying anything like vote changing happened, though. My issue with Trump is that there are some indications in data regarding his and his family's business dealings among other coincidences that don't make it unreasonable to at least want to see if he was given financial support from Russia. I also think, from these same articles and the interesting fact that both the DNC and RNC were hacked and yet only damaging information on the Democrats was leaked, that it is possible that some of the Republican leadership in our legislature is in the same spot.

That concerns the **** out of me. I very well could be wrong, but I've been following this very, very closely since the election and while I was skeptical at first there have been far too many coincidences and far too much strange behavior by some Republican legislators and the White House for me to not believe it's the smoke to the proverbial fire. At the same time if nothing comes of it I'll accept that and just generically bitch about a President I don't like until I have the opportunity to vote someone else in.

Also, of course I believe we do the same **** to other countries. Doesn't mean I want them doing it to us without us at least looking in to it and trying to do something about it. Same way I'd rather not have, say, Syria drone striking us.

The voter registration/polling machine compromise is still up in the air, but regarding the money. You think Hillary doesn't have some evil donating money? I mean it's major politics. It's ****ing crooked. The Clinton Foundation is exhibit A...

This isn't about whatabisms for me, because I'm actually pulling a Clinton private server defense as, "everybody does it". After the election we went through, "Clinton won the popular vote" to "Let's eliminate the electoral college" to this...it isn't much more about that for me.

Clinton, the DNC, other republicans all tried to fight dirty too with Dossiers, sexual misconducts, etc. They may or may not have received that information from a foreign government, but it's all in the same fucked up vein.

Dude this investigation was not instigated out of some sort of liberal complaint machine. Mueller was appointed by Rosenstein who was nominated for a judicial seat by GWB and appointed Deputy AG by Donald ****ing Trump himself. He appointed Mueller, he's Mueller's de facto boss. Why does he seem resistant to firing Mueller and ending the investigation? Why did he appoint him in the first place? And how in the name of all that is sane and rational, given that everyone overseeing the investigation are neither Democrats nor liberals, is this some sort of partisan bullshittery like Benghazi?

[uscbucsfan]

The voter registration/polling machine compromise is still up in the air, but regarding the money. You think Hillary doesn't have some evil donating money? I mean it's major politics. It's ****ing crooked. The Clinton Foundation is exhibit A...

This isn't about whatabisms for me, because I'm actually pulling a Clinton private server defense as, "everybody does it". After the election we went through, "Clinton won the popular vote" to "Let's eliminate the electoral college" to this...it isn't much more about that for me.

Clinton, the DNC, other republicans all tried to fight dirty too with Dossiers, sexual misconducts, etc. They may or may not have received that information from a foreign government, but it's all in the same fucked up vein.

Dude this investigation was not instigated out of some sort of liberal complaint machine. Mueller was appointed by Rosenstein who was nominated for a judicial seat by GWB and appointed Deputy AG by Donald ****ing Trump himself. He appointed Mueller, he's Mueller's de facto boss. Why does he seem resistant to firing Mueller and ending the investigation? Why did he appoint him in the first place? And how in the name of all that is sane and rational, given that everyone overseeing the investigation are neither Democrats nor liberals, is this some sort of partisan bullshittery like Benghazi?

1. Obama ordered an investigation in the first place. Republicans agreed to review the CIA findings and Rosenstein was able to appoint his selection with Mueller. The investigation was not simply created by Rosenstein or the Republicans.

2. I have no issue with Mueller and have never claimed him to slant liberal like so many are. I didn't even think the two individuals working on the case who were texting talking **** about Trump was a big deal. People can have their personal opinions and be non-biased in their job. I do it every day.

3. It's like Benghazi as it's just a bloated expensive, expansive mess. It should be impossible to completely tie Trump to this beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially with the powers of being President. I say should be, because you can't underestimate Trump trumping himself. So much needs to be found in order to either end it for all parties or actually get an Impeachment, that logic says it will fall in the same place as Benghazi.

4. Simply because I have very little to no issues with this doesn't mean it's not worth investigating. There could be some really bad **** down there, but simply working with Russia to obtain the DNC e-mails and Russia's campaign help through Facebook and other channels is not a big deal to me.

[uscbucsfan]

Let's stop pretending that this is the first time a foreign government meddled in an election.

What are we going to do? Go to war over it?

It did not change the outcome.

Page 1 and I think it still holds true.