"There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

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"There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFnw4BrFMZg

start at 24:29

kind of interesting The Glazers have made up with Gruden but not Dungy.

Anybody know anything more about this?

Is it the Glazers have not reached out to make amends with Dungy as much as they have Gruden?

Is Dungy more stubburn than Gruden about their respective firings?
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby BUCCABEER » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:25 pm

Listening to this makes me wish I had lost my hearing for the day.............They haven't even gotten to the point of the thread. I may not make it.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:31 pm

BUCCABEER wrote:Listening to this makes me wish I had lost my hearing for the day.............They haven't even gotten to the point of the thread. I may not make it.


if you start at 24:29 like listed in the OP, it takes you right to the Dungy-Bucs stuff.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby BUCCABEER » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:40 pm

KiffininCanton wrote:
BUCCABEER wrote:Listening to this makes me wish I had lost my hearing for the day.............They haven't even gotten to the point of the thread. I may not make it.


if you start at 24:29 like listed in the OP, it takes you right to the Dungy-Bucs stuff.



My bad, I finally made it to it, and for what it's worth, I'm glad I listened to the crap ahead of it to realize the crap about Dungy is just that.....crap. Both of them like to hear themselves talk in the shower.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Naismith » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:58 pm

Can't say I blame Dungy for having bad blood, if he does.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:09 pm

BUCCABEER wrote:
KiffininCanton wrote:
if you start at 24:29 like listed in the OP, it takes you right to the Dungy-Bucs stuff.



My bad, I finally made it to it, and for what it's worth, I'm glad I listened to the crap ahead of it to realize the crap about Dungy is just that.....crap. Both of them like to hear themselves talk in the shower.


don't know, Ira isn't always the most reliable source, but Dungy not being in the ROH (which he mentions) is telling.

There is precedent that the year a former Buc gets inducted in Canton, they also get in the ROH that year (as Ira points out) and the year Dungy got in Canton (2016) there was a "empty slot" left so to speak (they only inducted 1 guy, recent years they've inducted 2 per year) to induct Dungy and they passed.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:20 pm

Naismith wrote:Can't say I blame Dungy for having bad blood, if he does.


I'm torn on this.

Getting fired after 3 straight playoff appearances (and 4 out of 5) is rough, particularly given the state of the franchise before he got here.

But clearly the offenses Dungy was putting on the field was not going to be enough to get over the top and Super Bowl windows don't last forever. The Glazers also gave Dungy two chances to hire a new OC to "fix the offense" and the 2nd of those hires, Clyde Christensen, was a pathetic hire at the time.

But bigger picture I would say, it's been 16 years, Dungy got another job where he inherited a all time great QB and won a Super Bowl, so why still so bitter? The Glazers gave him his chance to be a NFL HC.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Teitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:24 pm

KiffininCanton wrote:
BUCCABEER wrote:

My bad, I finally made it to it, and for what it's worth, I'm glad I listened to the crap ahead of it to realize the crap about Dungy is just that.....crap. Both of them like to hear themselves talk in the shower.


don't know, Ira isn't always the most reliable source, but Dungy not being in the ROH


Gruden being the Super bowl winner makes sense going before him. Dungy always talks positively about Tampa.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:33 pm

Teitan wrote:
KiffininCanton wrote:
don't know, Ira isn't always the most reliable source, but Dungy not being in the ROH


Gruden being the Super bowl winner makes sense going before him. Dungy always talks positively about Tampa.


Doesn't have as much to do with whether Gruden or Dungy got in first, but with the fact that in the case of Brooks and Sapp, they got in the ROH the year they got in Canton. They passed on Dungy, despite only inducting one guy in the ROH that year (they inducted 2 the year before and the year after).

It's not like there was some unofficial rule that the coach that won us the Super Bowl gets in first, they inducted McKay first.

And of course Dungy is going to be diplomatic in talking about the Bucs publically, that's who is.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Teitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:38 pm

There’s also no rule about Canton= ROH. Fan favorite player going to Canton, it makes sense. It’s hyped, fans get excited. But the proximity of Dungy and Gruden, I feel they may have wanted Gruden to be before.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:41 pm

Teitan wrote:There’s also no rule about Canton= ROH. Fan favorite player going to Canton, it makes sense. It’s hyped, fans get excited. But the proximity of Dungy and Gruden, I feel they may have wanted Gruden to be before.


no rule, but it seems to be the pattern.

Your 2nd point could be possible. Next years ROH choice will be really telling, if they still pass on Dungy at that point...........
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Teitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:55 pm

It was a pattern in the sense that we had a batch of players inducted close together. But Giles, McCay, Gruber, Alstott, etc weren’t inductees when put in ROH.

I just think that was more a timing thing rather than a standard.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Four Verticals » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:00 am

They couldn't put Dungy in ROH the year he was inducted into the HOF because Gruden wasn't in. Gruden had to go in first as the coach of the Super Bowl team. Why would this be difficult for anyone to understand?

Ira's an idiot. I'll reiterate...Ira's an idiot. How he's the Tampa Bay rep on the HOF committee escapes me. He must have paid somebody off. He was/is terrible writer and has a voice made for the silent movie era. He's wrong. He's always wrong. He tweeted two days before Gruden took the Oakland job that Gruden was coming back....to Tampa Bay. That's when I knew he was not coming to the Bucs. Ira famously also wrote that Brett Favre was coming to the Bucs.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:00 am

I've not listened and I don't plan to listen, but I can tell you that (although it has been a number of years) when I asked Coach Dungy if he had any hard feelings toward the Bucs he told me he didn't. He said something like: "I understand it's a business" or something like that. It's been a long time. Anyhow, he said he felt like it worked out for him anyway.

I don't plan to listen, because Tony Dungy has always been a guy who tells the truth, and since he told me that he didn't have any hard feelings I totally accept that as the truth. Could it have changed? I guess. And I don't think the Glazers have ever expressed any hard feelings toward Coach Dungy -- at least Bryan and Joel have never said anything in my presence that would lead me to believe they have any hard feelings toward Coach Dungy.

I can only go on what I personally have been told or know, so that's as far as I can comment.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby sanka » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:53 am

I 'm always happy for a such a humble person like Dungy not to take the bitter with the sweet...he eventually got his SB ring...and he is the HOF...something Gruden cannot say.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby terrytate » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:03 am

Four Verticals wrote:They couldn't put Dungy in ROH the year he was inducted into the HOF because Gruden wasn't in. Gruden had to go in first as the coach of the Super Bowl team. Why would this be difficult for anyone to understand?

Ira's an idiot. I'll reiterate...Ira's an idiot. How he's the Tampa Bay rep on the HOF committee escapes me. He must have paid somebody off. He was/is terrible writer and has a voice made for the silent movie era. He's wrong. He's always wrong. He tweeted two days before Gruden took the Oakland job that Gruden was coming back....to Tampa Bay. That's when I knew he was not coming to the Bucs. Ira famously also wrote that Brett Favre was coming to the Bucs.



While all of this is true, I think there is another reason for Dungy not being in the ROH yet. If Dungy and everyone in the Bucs ROH were elected to the Hall of Fame, only Dungy and Doug Williams wouldn't go in wearing a Bucs hat. Look at how long it took for the Bucs to embrace Doug Williams after he left.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby MJW » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:36 pm

As far as I'm concerned, we issued our apology to Dungy in the form of not pulling Tim Wansley out of that damn game.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Crocaneers » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:48 pm

Naismith wrote:Can't say I blame Dungy for having bad blood, if he does.


He doesn't, he's covered it in his boot Quiet Stength and in the Iamsecond video.

He's fine where he went and how he ended
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Super K » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:41 pm

MJW wrote:As far as I'm concerned, we issued our apology to Dungy in the form of not pulling Tim Wansley out of that damn game.


What game?
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Doctor » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:54 pm

I love how we re-write history.
"His players".... HALF of the players on the Superbowl team never played under Dungy. The best players on the team weren't drafted by Dungy, but were here before he was hired.

Did we put Steve Young in the RoH after he was inducted into the HoF? No. Because he wasn't a champion with the Bucs. Dungy wasn't a champion with the bucs, he was one with the Colts (and quite frankly, having only 1 SB win with a prime Peyton Manning is rather lackluster). Dungy was 2-4 in the playoffs here, averaged 11 ppg. Dungy is a great guy and a great coach. He took Sam Wyche team to the next level, just like Gruden took his to the next level. But say DK turns us around and we make the playoffs again and he goes 2-4 like Dungy. Would we be so quick to demand he go into the RoH too because he "turned around" a really bad bucs team? A team that has been really bad for a long time? No, of course not.

Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH. Love Dungy but 90% of his cult like following was merely a product of the **** we suffered as fans before him. He was pretty much what Marty Shoteenheimer was for the Browns in the 80s. Marty turned around a bad team, took them to playoffs, had a better winning percentage there than Dungy had here, all well in good but nothing magical. The difference is the Browns actually had a lot of NFL success prior to the Marty rebuild so they don't overblow it like we do here.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 pm

Doctor wrote:Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH.


Since the discussion has turned to "should Dungy be in the RoH or not" let's have that discussion.

Mind you, I'm not the biggest Dungy fan, but to argue he doesn't deserve putting in the RoH is absurd and your above argument proves why he exactly belongs in the RoH.

In your "first good gf" analogy, the RoH isn't marriage, we already have 11 guys in it and will add more in the future. The RoH would be the equivlent to asking someone at the end of their life to come up with a list of people that had a significant impact on their life or that you couldn't tell the story of their life without them (in a positive sense).

Your telling me someones first love wouldn't belong on that list?

How could you possibly tell the history of the Buccaneers, even a short two paragraph version, without mentioning the name Tony Dungy?
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Caradoc » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:49 pm

I think Dungy is overrated, but still belongs in the RoH.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby terrytate » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:58 pm

KiffininCanton wrote:
Doctor wrote:Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH.


Since the discussion has turned to "should Dungy be in the RoH or not" let's have that discussion.

Mind you, I'm not the biggest Dungy fan, but to argue he doesn't deserve putting in the RoH is absurd and your above argument proves why he exactly belongs in the RoH.

In your "first good gf" analogy, the RoH isn't marriage, we already have 11 guys in it and will add more in the future. The RoH would be the equivlent to asking someone at the end of their life to come up with a list of people that had a significant impact on their life or that you couldn't tell the story of their life without them (in a positive sense).

Your telling me someones first love wouldn't belong on that list?

How could you possibly tell the history of the Buccaneers, even a short two paragraph version, without mentioning the name Tony Dungy?


He'll get in at some point. Just saying there are good reasons why he isn't in already. IMO, Dungy is a Colt.

As to why he'll get into the Bucs ROH and why he's worthy of the Hall even if he is a bit overrated is because he played a large part in creating the Tampa 2, which dominated the league. The influence of Dungy/Kiffin extended far beyond just the teams they personally coached. Lovie Smith made the Super Bowl with two different teams running the T2. This combined with the teams emergence from Doormat status under his watch should do it. This plus his run of success in Indy and the number of firsts he achieved in the NFL are why he's in the Hall.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby KiffininCanton » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:32 am

terrytate wrote:
KiffininCanton wrote:
Since the discussion has turned to "should Dungy be in the RoH or not" let's have that discussion.

Mind you, I'm not the biggest Dungy fan, but to argue he doesn't deserve putting in the RoH is absurd and your above argument proves why he exactly belongs in the RoH.

In your "first good gf" analogy, the RoH isn't marriage, we already have 11 guys in it and will add more in the future. The RoH would be the equivlent to asking someone at the end of their life to come up with a list of people that had a significant impact on their life or that you couldn't tell the story of their life without them (in a positive sense).

Your telling me someones first love wouldn't belong on that list?

How could you possibly tell the history of the Buccaneers, even a short two paragraph version, without mentioning the name Tony Dungy?


He'll get in at some point. Just saying there are good reasons why he isn't in already. IMO, Dungy is a Colt.


to most people outside of the Tampa area, Doug Williams is a Redskin
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Kress » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:03 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:I've not listened and I don't plan to listen, but I can tell you that (although it has been a number of years) when I asked Coach Dungy if he had any hard feelings toward the Bucs he told me he didn't. He said something like: "I understand it's a business" or something like that. It's been a long time. Anyhow, he said he felt like it worked out for him anyway.

I don't plan to listen, because Tony Dungy has always been a guy who tells the truth, and since he told me that he didn't have any hard feelings I totally accept that as the truth. Could it have changed? I guess. And I don't think the Glazers have ever expressed any hard feelings toward Coach Dungy -- at least Bryan and Joel have never said anything in my presence that would lead me to believe they have any hard feelings toward Coach Dungy.

I can only go on what I personally have been told or know, so that's as far as I can comment.


That's what I would have expected from him. By all accounts a stand up guy. And particularly how he created that culture here back then. Just play with class and dedication. Hold yourselves accountable for your role. Brooks of course carried that mantra, and by example parlayed it to the rest. Nice input. :drinkingcheers:
Last edited by Kress on Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby terrytate » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:05 am

KiffininCanton wrote:
terrytate wrote:
He'll get in at some point. Just saying there are good reasons why he isn't in already. IMO, Dungy is a Colt.


to most people outside of the Tampa area, Doug Williams is a Redskin


I said pretty much exactly that in a previous post in this thread. I firmly believe that Williams got into the ROH because of the time he spent here as an executive.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby Kress » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:11 am

terrytate wrote:
to most people outside of the Tampa area, Doug Williams is a Redskin



Unfortunately true. He was the first "franchise" we had.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby MarineBuc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:24 am

Doctor wrote:I love how we re-write history.
"His players".... HALF of the players on the Superbowl team never played under Dungy. The best players on the team weren't drafted by Dungy, but were here before he was hired.

Did we put Steve Young in the RoH after he was inducted into the HoF? No. Because he wasn't a champion with the Bucs. Dungy wasn't a champion with the bucs, he was one with the Colts (and quite frankly, having only 1 SB win with a prime Peyton Manning is rather lackluster). Dungy was 2-4 in the playoffs here, averaged 11 ppg. Dungy is a great guy and a great coach. He took Sam Wyche team to the next level, just like Gruden took his to the next level. But say DK turns us around and we make the playoffs again and he goes 2-4 like Dungy. Would we be so quick to demand he go into the RoH too because he "turned around" a really bad bucs team? A team that has been really bad for a long time? No, of course not.

Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH. Love Dungy but 90% of his cult like following was merely a product of the **** we suffered as fans before him. He was pretty much what Marty Shoteenheimer was for the Browns in the 80s. Marty turned around a bad team, took them to playoffs, had a better winning percentage there than Dungy had here, all well in good but nothing magical. The difference is the Browns actually had a lot of NFL success prior to the Marty rebuild so they don't overblow it like we do here.


So much truth here...bravo.

I love how people worship at the Altar of Dungy...when in fact, more people should be pissed that he wasted so many years of an incredible defense. It's downright shameful that the defense the Bucs put on the field for so many years only has one Lombardi Trophy...and the same can be said for his years at Indy. He has the premier QB in the league at the time and only managed to win ONE.

Dungy is a GREAT man...a coach...ehhh, not nearly as great as the man.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:11 am

MarineBuc wrote:
Doctor wrote:I love how we re-write history.
"His players".... HALF of the players on the Superbowl team never played under Dungy. The best players on the team weren't drafted by Dungy, but were here before he was hired.

Did we put Steve Young in the RoH after he was inducted into the HoF? No. Because he wasn't a champion with the Bucs. Dungy wasn't a champion with the bucs, he was one with the Colts (and quite frankly, having only 1 SB win with a prime Peyton Manning is rather lackluster). Dungy was 2-4 in the playoffs here, averaged 11 ppg. Dungy is a great guy and a great coach. He took Sam Wyche team to the next level, just like Gruden took his to the next level. But say DK turns us around and we make the playoffs again and he goes 2-4 like Dungy. Would we be so quick to demand he go into the RoH too because he "turned around" a really bad bucs team? A team that has been really bad for a long time? No, of course not.

Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH. Love Dungy but 90% of his cult like following was merely a product of the **** we suffered as fans before him. He was pretty much what Marty Shoteenheimer was for the Browns in the 80s. Marty turned around a bad team, took them to playoffs, had a better winning percentage there than Dungy had here, all well in good but nothing magical. The difference is the Browns actually had a lot of NFL success prior to the Marty rebuild so they don't overblow it like we do here.


So much truth here...bravo.

I love how people worship at the Altar of Dungy...when in fact, more people should be pissed that he wasted so many years of an incredible defense. It's downright shameful that the defense the Bucs put on the field for so many years only has one Lombardi Trophy...and the same can be said for his years at Indy. He has the premier QB in the league at the time and only managed to win ONE.

Dungy is a GREAT man...a coach...ehhh, not nearly as great as the man.


Let's not throw him TOO far under the bus. He was a good coach. In many way, a very good coach. He just had one big achilles heel, it was an inability to grasp a successful offensive gameplan. He didn't draft many of the superstars on that Bucs D but he did have a large part in inventing the Tampa 2 to maximize their performance. His coaching disciples proved that his scheme could work without Sapp and Brooks too, so it wasn't just that he had players to make his scheme work. He did nearly make the Super Bowl with Shaun King at QB. Some of his failures can be attributed to McKay forgetting how to draft offense. Reidel Anthony, Jaquez Green?

If only Dungy was sharp enough to get a good offensive mind in here and get the hell out of his way.
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Re: "There's still bad blood between Dungy and the Bucs"

Postby MJW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:36 am

MarineBuc wrote:
Doctor wrote:I love how we re-write history.
"His players".... HALF of the players on the Superbowl team never played under Dungy. The best players on the team weren't drafted by Dungy, but were here before he was hired.

Did we put Steve Young in the RoH after he was inducted into the HoF? No. Because he wasn't a champion with the Bucs. Dungy wasn't a champion with the bucs, he was one with the Colts (and quite frankly, having only 1 SB win with a prime Peyton Manning is rather lackluster). Dungy was 2-4 in the playoffs here, averaged 11 ppg. Dungy is a great guy and a great coach. He took Sam Wyche team to the next level, just like Gruden took his to the next level. But say DK turns us around and we make the playoffs again and he goes 2-4 like Dungy. Would we be so quick to demand he go into the RoH too because he "turned around" a really bad bucs team? A team that has been really bad for a long time? No, of course not.

Dungy is like the first good gf you've had. We finally had something good, it will always be special to us, close to our hearts, in our memory, and all that. But that doesn't make him the best gf or worthy of marrying or putting into our ****ing RoH. Love Dungy but 90% of his cult like following was merely a product of the **** we suffered as fans before him. He was pretty much what Marty Shoteenheimer was for the Browns in the 80s. Marty turned around a bad team, took them to playoffs, had a better winning percentage there than Dungy had here, all well in good but nothing magical. The difference is the Browns actually had a lot of NFL success prior to the Marty rebuild so they don't overblow it like we do here.


So much truth here...bravo.

I love how people worship at the Altar of Dungy...when in fact, more people should be pissed that he wasted so many years of an incredible defense. It's downright shameful that the defense the Bucs put on the field for so many years only has one Lombardi Trophy...and the same can be said for his years at Indy. He has the premier QB in the league at the time and only managed to win ONE.

Dungy is a GREAT man...a coach...ehhh, not nearly as great as the man.


Dude, were you even here before 1996? Dungy is probably the reason Tampa still has an NFL franchise and we're not the friggin Los Angeles Thunder or some nonsense. We spent more time than the Cleveland Browns being the Cleveland Browns. Imagine some coach coming to Cleveland, going to the playoffs 4 times in 6 years, going to the Conference title game, winning the most games in franchise history, and then 20 years later someone talking about how "overrated" he was.
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