The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

[mdb1958]

Would anybody trade down for both of Buffalo's first rounders?

[Jason Bourne]

Nope and I thought we had a draft thread already ??

[Brazen331]

Who are you thinking of selecting with those picks?

[mdb1958]

Who are you thinking of selecting with those picks?

I don't know yet.

Relax Brazen, its not some evil scheme I'm thinking up.

[Ken Carson]

I'd consider both of their 1st rounders and both of their second rounders. Unfortunately, they, the Chiefs and the Rams all made the playoffs, so those picks are going to be in the early to mid-20s and the early to mid-50s.

I don't see it happening for a couple reasons, but the main one is that we're directly behind 2 QB needy teams in the Broncos and the Jets and directly in front of 3 teams that are extremely unlikely to draft one in Chicago, Oakland and San Fran. If the Bills are going to move up, it'll be for a passer and they'll move up to 3 or 4, probably giving away their first 3 rounds this year and a future pick or two.

[real bucs fan]

If the draft works out terribly in front of us I'm down for a trade down and would love those picks. Bryce Love and Will Henderson all day!

Why make a new thread though?

[Bootz2004]

Nope. Pass rusher. Chubb, Ferrell, Key.

[Cheb]

Even if all the premium non-qbs are gone by that point, the Bills would have to sweeten the pot before I would make that trade.

[Alpha]

Even if all the premium non-qbs are gone by that point, the Bills would have to sweeten the pot before I would make that trade.

A LOT of sweetener.

[Kress]

Nope. Pass rusher. Chubb, Ferrell, Key.

I have a full Chubb right now.

[Alpha]

Nope. Pass rusher. Chubb, Ferrell, Key.

I have a full Chubb right now.

Gonna cock-block you.

Your Chubb will be gone by 7.

No wories though...it happens with guys your age...they have pills that will help...

[mdb1958]

My early Buc interests

Bradley Chubb
Vita Vea
Quenton Nelson
Joshua Jackson


Just a few thoughts

Anyone going with Nelson with Chubb still on the board?

Is Marpet hoping Vea doesnt end up in the NFCS

Does Tampa or the NFL in general think that Josey Jewell's pass protection skills will continue in the NFL?

[Cheb]

If we have a choice between Chubb and Nelson... well, I would kick myself either way.

We desperately, desperately need a pass rush on the outside, and Chubb is a very good pass rusher. He would make the most logical sense.

And yet, Nelson is just that good. Upgrading left guard with a talent like his makes so much sense. He would help out everybody, from Winston and the skill players by opening holes and giving time in the pocket, to his fellow linemen by not needing help on the interior (especially helping D Smith with rushes to that B gap), and he'd also help the defense, by helping us actually have a solid running game and promoting offensive TOP and effeciency. Nelson is the best college guard I've ever seen, and it's not even close. His ceiling is Larry Allen, and his floor (assuming he stays healthy) is Davin Joseph.

If we took Chubb and he had only an average career, and Nelson by contrast was (as predicted) an immediate all-Pro, I would say that we were stupid for passing on a generational talent in Nelson for an immediate team need. We have done this in the past, and we are still kicking ourselves because of it.

And yet, if we took Nelson, and again couldn't muster up a pass rush to save our lives, I would bemoan the fact that we didn't take the best pass rusher in the draft when we had the chance.

More than likely, one of those two will be gone by the time we pick, so the decision will be made for us. Or, by the time of the draft, One Buc will firmly prefer one over the other.

Time will tell.

[DreadNaught]

I'm starting to really like the idea of Nelson at #7. I know we need pass rush, Secondary, and RB help but I'm a BPA guy (within reason) and I think Nelson is that guy.

A dominate Oline just makes the game easier. We already have all the pieces in place in the passing game (I could argue we have more weapons than we can utilize), so plugging in an All-Pro caliber talent at the weakest part of our line would dramatically improve the entire unit. Plus you would have the LT-LG-C spots all locked up with players under 25. It could be scary good moving forward.

We'd still need a RB, but you can find those.

The flaw with this scenario is we didn't spend our most valuable offseason resource (the #7 overall pick) addressing the biggest problem with our team which was the EDGE rush.

If we don't get better rushing the QB with 4 it will be a complete regime change this time next year. It's tough to win close games late in the 4th when you can't pressure the QB.

[beardmcdoug]

If we have a choice between Chubb and Nelson... well, I would kick myself either way.

We desperately, desperately need a pass rush on the outside, and Chubb is a very good pass rusher. He would make the most logical sense.

And yet, Nelson is just that good. Upgrading left guard with a talent like his makes so much sense. He would help out everybody, from Winston and the skill players by opening holes and giving time in the pocket, to his fellow linemen by not needing help on the interior (especially helping D Smith with rushes to that B gap), and he'd also help the defense, by helping us actually have a solid running game and promoting offensive TOP and effeciency. Nelson is the best college guard I've ever seen, and it's not even close. His ceiling is Larry Allen, and his floor (assuming he stays healthy) is Davin Joseph.

If we took Chubb and he had only an average career, and Nelson by contrast was (as predicted) an immediate all-Pro, I would say that we were stupid for passing on a generational talent in Nelson for an immediate team need. We have done this in the past, and we are still kicking ourselves because of it.

And yet, if we took Nelson, and again couldn't muster up a pass rush to save our lives, I would bemoan the fact that we didn't take the best pass rusher in the draft when we had the chance.

More than likely, one of those two will be gone by the time we pick, so the decision will be made for us. Or, by the time of the draft, One Buc will firmly prefer one over the other.

Time will tell.

this is exactly how I feel - well said.

Although, I'll say that by the time I was done reading, I'm still feeling partial to Nelson. I must be getting older with how adverse to risk I'm becoming. Nelson just seems like such a guaranteed homerun. I'd puke all over myself if we picked Chubb, and he ends up as just another extremely athletic DE who "just couldn't put it together", like I feel like I've seen 100 times at this point, all the Vernon Gholstons, Dion Jordans, Barkevious Mingos, Gaines Adams' - hell even if he ends up like a Jadeveon Clowney, who deals with nagging injuries, and can have occasional dominant moments, (but still hasn't broken 10 sacks/season after 4 years) I'd still so salty knowing we passed on a guy, as you say, with a Larry Allen ceiling and Davin Joseph floor.

[Teitan]

Luckily, we can help our pass rush in FA. Ansah is a solid younger guy we can invest in hopefully.

[uscbucsfan]

If we have a choice between Chubb and Nelson... well, I would kick myself either way.

We desperately, desperately need a pass rush on the outside, and Chubb is a very good pass rusher. He would make the most logical sense.

And yet, Nelson is just that good. Upgrading left guard with a talent like his makes so much sense. He would help out everybody, from Winston and the skill players by opening holes and giving time in the pocket, to his fellow linemen by not needing help on the interior (especially helping D Smith with rushes to that B gap), and he'd also help the defense, by helping us actually have a solid running game and promoting offensive TOP and effeciency. Nelson is the best college guard I've ever seen, and it's not even close. His ceiling is Larry Allen, and his floor (assuming he stays healthy) is Davin Joseph.

If we took Chubb and he had only an average career, and Nelson by contrast was (as predicted) an immediate all-Pro, I would say that we were stupid for passing on a generational talent in Nelson for an immediate team need. We have done this in the past, and we are still kicking ourselves because of it.

And yet, if we took Nelson, and again couldn't muster up a pass rush to save our lives, I would bemoan the fact that we didn't take the best pass rusher in the draft when we had the chance.

More than likely, one of those two will be gone by the time we pick, so the decision will be made for us. Or, by the time of the draft, One Buc will firmly prefer one over the other.

Time will tell.

this is exactly how I feel - well said.

Although, I'll say that by the time I was done reading, I'm still feeling partial to Nelson. I must be getting older with how adverse to risk I'm becoming. Nelson just seems like such a guaranteed homerun. I'd puke all over myself if we picked Chubb, and he ends up as just another extremely athletic DE who "just couldn't put it together", like I feel like I've seen 100 times at this point, all the Vernon Gholstons, Dion Jordans, Barkevious Mingos, Gaines Adams' - hell even if he ends up like a Jadeveon Clowney, who deals with nagging injuries, and can have occasional dominant moments, (but still hasn't broken 10 sacks/season after 4 years) I'd still so salty knowing we passed on a guy, as you say, with a Larry Allen ceiling and Davin Joseph floor.

Sacks are a crazy thing in the NFL. Look at the top 10 this year and last year. Chandler Jones is the only player on both list. Players like Miller and Mack are consistently getting around 10 sacks, but the big numbers are extremely erratic. You have players like Beasley going from 15.5 to 5 or Demarcus Lawrence getting 14.5 when his previous best is 8. What's more important for us is QB pressures and the ability to beat their man. This will provide us the potential big boons in sack numbers, but will help our defense more overall. This is what I think Chubb is the most equipped to do in this draft. Key may get a big year with 15+ sacks, but from what I've seen he's more like Dunlap or Beasley. Beasley, even last year, put up big sack numbers, but was relatively low on total QB pressures or hits. This means that there were more plays he wasn't impacting. I believe Chubb is a prospect that will be more consistent in producing and contribution to pressures, drawing double teams, and being an every down menace, even if he doesn't have the crazy 15+ sack numbers.

As far as Nelson vs Chubb, I do believe we could find a Guard in FA or 2/3rd round would be less of a drop off than a DE. I think Nelson is more of a sure thing, so I'm really torn.

[Mountaineer Buc]

Luckily, we can help our pass rush in FA. Ansah is a solid younger guy we can invest in hopefully.

That is Licht's style. He will try to fill every hole in the roster with free agents before the draft so he's not a prisoner to it.

This has had mixed results, but I think it's a sound way to approach the offseason.

[Bootz2004]

I'm starting to really like the idea of Nelson at #7. I know we need pass rush, Secondary, and RB help but I'm a BPA guy (within reason) and I think Nelson is that guy.

A dominate Oline just makes the game easier. We already have all the pieces in place in the passing game (I could argue we have more weapons than we can utilize), so plugging in an All-Pro caliber talent at the weakest part of our line would dramatically improve the entire unit. Plus you would have the LT-LG-C spots all locked up with players under 25. It could be scary good moving forward.

We'd still need a RB, but you can find those.

The flaw with this scenario is we didn't spend our most valuable offseason resource (the #7 overall pick) addressing the biggest problem with our team which was the EDGE rush.

If we don't get better rushing the QB with 4 it will be a complete regime change this time next year. It's tough to win close games late in the 4th when you can't pressure the QB.

That flaw is why I would have a hard time passing other top pass rushers for a guard. And this is nothing against Nelson, who looks to be a dominant player. But lack of pass rush is why we lost some many of our games. Buffalo. Green Bay. Carolina. Detroit. Atlanta. All games we either had a lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes only to lose because we couldn't find a pass rush. It's also easier finding Oline talent, especially at guard, in later rounds than it is pass rush talent.

[Bootz2004]

Luckily, we can help our pass rush in FA. Ansah is a solid younger guy we can invest in hopefully.

Much like Lawrence in Dallas there's no chance Detroit is going to just let Ansah walk. Edge rushers are a premium position in this league. You don't just let one walk if you don't have a viable solution to replace him. Not happening.

[Teitan]

Luckily, we can help our pass rush in FA. Ansah is a solid younger guy we can invest in hopefully.

Much like Lawrence in Dallas there's no chance Detroit is going to just let Ansah walk. Edge rushers are a premium position in this league. You don't just let one walk if you don't have a viable solution to replace him. Not happening.

Have you never watched the NFL? Good players walk and change teams annually. This is the NFL with a salary cap. You cannot hold on to every good player you have. You just can't.

[Bootz2004]

Much like Lawrence in Dallas there's no chance Detroit is going to just let Ansah walk. Edge rushers are a premium position in this league. You don't just let one walk if you don't have a viable solution to replace him. Not happening.

Have you never watched the NFL? Good players walk and change teams annually. This is the NFL with a salary cap. You cannot hold on to every good player you have. You just can't.

Nice try *****. And nice of you to answer a post with another one from me regarding a #2 TE. If you agreed with me but didn't want to admit you had no reply you could've just said so instead of making yourself look stupid. Tell me again how paying a #2 TE compares to arguably the 2nd most important position on the football field....

[Teitan]

I’m not saying that Ansah will certainly be available. Simply that we should try to target someone like him, should they become available. Not sure why your first instinct is just to be a huge **** all the time.

And just using YOUR post to illustrate that some good players do get away.

[Bootz2004]

I’m not saying that Ansah will certainly be available. Simply that we should try to target someone like him, should they become available. Not sure why your first instinct is just to be a huge **** all the time.

And just using YOUR post to illustrate that some good players do get away.

Yes good players get away because of the factors listed. Rarely, if ever, are those players edge rushers. And not when the team has nearly $50mil in cap space. Again nice of you using a post regarding a #2 TE here.

[Teitan]

Luckily, we can help our pass rush in FA. Ansah is a solid younger guy we can invest in hopefully.

That is Licht's style. He will try to fill every hole in the roster with free agents before the draft so he's not a prisoner to it.

This has had mixed results, but I think it's a sound way to approach the offseason.

It is a smart approach. You just need to hit on those Free Agents.

[DreadNaught]

The franchise tag for a DE in 2018 is going to be around $18-19m so both the Lions and Cowboys could go that route to keep Ansah/Lawrence. It would seem obvious the Lions would do so w/ Ansah considering their cap space and lack of talent at the position. It will be more difficult for the Cowboys who have big extensions for Dak and Zeke in the near future, limited cap space in 2018, and having just drafted a DE in round 1 last season (Taco Charlton).

I'd bet the Cowboys cut Dez Bryant w/a post June 1 designation to save $12m in cap and use the money to extend Lawrence.

[Bootz2004]

The franchise tag for a DE in 2018 is going to be around $18-19m so both the Lions and Cowboys could go that route to keep Ansah/Lawrence. It would seem obvious the Lions would do so w/ Ansah considering their cap space and lack of talent at the position. It will be more difficult for the Cowboys who have big extensions for Dak and Zeke in the near future, limited cap space in 2018, and having just drafted a DE in round 1 last season (Taco Charlton).

I'd bet the Cowboys cut Dez Bryant w/a post June 1 designation to save $12m in cap and use the money to extend Lawrence.

Dallas has $21mil in cap space so their situation isn't as bad as in years past. Cutting Dez post June 1 makes sense. They could also cut Bailey and save $3.4 mil. They could also let Witten go and save $6mil+ although I don't know how that would go over in Arlington. Regardless I don't see them letting Lawrence walk.

[real bucs fan]

A nice FA target would be Alex Okafor. He was basically having a Demarcus Lawrence-ish breakout until he tore his achilles. Turns 27 in February.

[real bucs fan]

Thanks for the FA thread mdb, us draftniks needed one here!

[real bucs fan]

The franchise tag for a DE in 2018 is going to be around $18-19m so both the Lions and Cowboys could go that route to keep Ansah/Lawrence. It would seem obvious the Lions would do so w/ Ansah considering their cap space and lack of talent at the position. It will be more difficult for the Cowboys who have big extensions for Dak and Zeke in the near future, limited cap space in 2018, and having just drafted a DE in round 1 last season (Taco Charlton).

I'd bet the Cowboys cut Dez Bryant w/a post June 1 designation to save $12m in cap and use the money to extend Lawrence.

Dallas has $21mil in cap space so their situation isn't as bad as in years past. Cutting Dez post June 1 makes sense. They could also cut Bailey and save $3.4 mil. They could also let Witten go and save $6mil+ although I don't know how that would go over in Arlington. Regardless I don't see them letting Lawrence walk.

The only thing is Dallas needs more weapons not less. Bryant must be cut/restructured as he's basically a #2 at this point. Witten is a decent #3. Beasley's an asset in the slot. If they cut both Bryant and Witten though they have noone to throw to but Zeke and Beasley.