Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Concrete » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:10 pm

Whoosh you're correct!
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby terrytate » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:24 am

I don't have a ton of faith in Cam Newton, he's got his share of issues and is a mentally weak crybaby. But, Bootz is right about his Super Bowl season. It was all clicking for him that year. He was passing at an A+ level. His duel against Drew Brees late in the year was a hell of a show. The thing is, those Bronco's took a toll on his confidence and he just wasn't throwing last year like he did in his MVP season. It's possible we see that guy again, but I am not sold. They are trying to turn him in a quick read guy and minimize how much he relies on his athletic traits. Sounds like it will be a disaster to me, but we will have to see.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:59 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback in NFL history (47)
Most passing yards by a quarterback in first two games (854), September 11, 2011 vs. Arizona Cardinals and September 18, 2011 vs. Green Bay Packers
Most games in NFL history with a passing touchdown and a rushing touchdown (32)
Most player of the week awards in a single season (5) tied with Tom Brady
First player in NFL history and most games with at least 250 passing yards, 100 rushing yards, 1 passing touchdown, and 1 rushing touchdown in a single game (2)
Most games in single season with at least one passing touchdown and one rushing touchdown (8)
Only player in NFL history with at least 30 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns in same season
Most rushing touchdowns in single season by a quarterback (14), achieved on December 4, 2011 vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Most combined yards in a player’s first five seasons (21,560)
First quarterback and fifth player in NFL history with at least 500 rushing yards, 5 rushing touchdowns, and 4.8 yards a carry in 5 consecutive NFL seasons
First quarterback in NFL history to win both NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and NFL MVP at some point in his career.
Most passing yards by a quarterback in debut game (422), September 11, 2011 vs. Arizona Cardinals
First quarterback in NFL history to pass for more than 400 yards in first two career starts, September 11, 2011 vs. Arizona Cardinals and September 18, 2011 vs. Green Bay Packers
Fastest player to throw for 1,000 yards (at Arizona Cardinals, vs. Green Bay Packers, and vs. Jacksonville Jaguars)
Sixth quarterback to throw for 400+ yards in back to back games
First player in NFL history with at least five rushing touchdowns and five passing touchdowns in his first five games
Twenty-fifth NFL player (and first quarterback) to have 20 rushing touchdowns in first two seasons
First player to have 30 passing touchdowns and 20 rushing touchdowns in first two seasons
First player in NFL history with 50 passing touchdowns and 25 rushing touchdowns in his first three seasons
First player in NFL history with 4,000+ passing yards and 10+ rushing touchdowns in a season
First player in NFL history with 4,000+ passing yards and 500+ rushing yards in a season
First quarterback in NFL history with 100+ pass touchdowns and 25+ rush touchdowns in first five seasons
First quarterback in NFL history with multiple seasons of 20+ passing touchdowns and 10+ rushing touchdowns in a season
First player in NFL history with 10,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards in his first three seasons
First player in NFL history with 10,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards in his first four seasons
First player in NFL history to have at least 3,000 passing yards and 500 rushing yards in five consecutive seasons
First quarterback in NFL history to rush for 100+ yards and pass for 300+ yards with 5 touchdowns in a single game (December 20, 2015).
First player in NFL history with 100+ rush yards and 5 pass touchdowns in a single game
First player with 3,500 passing yards, 20 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns in a single season (2011, 2015)
First quarterback in NFL history with 10+ rushing touchdowns in multiple NFL seasons (2011, 2015)
Fifth quarterback in NFL history with 3+ games with 5+ touchdown passes in a season
Fourth quarterback to win 17+ straight regular season starts in the Super Bowl era
Most games in NFL history with at least 200 passing yards and 80 rushing yards with multiple touchdown passes and a rushing touchdown (4 games)
3rd quarterback in NFL history with 2+ passing touchdowns and 1+ rushing touchdown
2nd quarterback in NFL history with 3+ passing touchdowns and 1+ rushing touchdown
Most touchdown passes from a player from Auburn
First starting quarterback to win the NFC South in consecutive seasons (2013–2015)
Second player in NFL history with 7,500+ pass yards and 40+ pass touchdowns in first two seasons, joining Peyton Manning ('99)
First quarterback in NFL history to earn a comeback victory when trailing in overtime
3rd quarterback in NFL history to pass for over 3.000 yards in his first five seasons
2nd most 5+ touchdown games in a single season (3)
2nd quarterback with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards in a single game
First player in Super Bowl era to pass for 300 yards and rush for multiple touchdowns in a playoff game
Most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback in his first four seasons



Yea, so overrated....

Also 1 of 3 rookies QBs EVER to pass for 4000 yards and 20 TDs. The other 2 being Andrew Luck and Jameis Winston.

Dude, he's overrated. He's a "superstar" who in reality is a mediocre, middle of the pack starting QB. Hell of a talent, but a mediocre QB.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Teitan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:35 am

Well, they just fired their GM
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:41 am

Teitan wrote:Well, they just fired their GM


Wowsers.. I thought Gettlemen had good job security there. Seems like an odd time to fire your GM and his staff just spent all offseason in FA and the draft modifying the roster. Why now make the move in January like everyone else so the new guy can make decisions?

I always liked Gettlmen's approach to team building and seemed to be inline with the HC. I'm sure he'll land on his feet.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:47 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Teitan wrote:Well, they just fired their GM


Wowsers.. I thought Gettlemen had good job security there. Seems like an odd time to fire your GM and his staff just spent all offseason in FA and the draft modifying the roster. Why now make the move in January like everyone else so the new guy can make decisions?

I always liked Gettlmen's approach to team building and seemed to be inline with the HC. I'm sure he'll land on his feet.

Something behind the scenes must have blown all to hell.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:50 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:

Yea, so overrated....

Also 1 of 3 rookies QBs EVER to pass for 4000 yards and 20 TDs. The other 2 being Andrew Luck and Jameis Winston.

Dude, he's overrated. He's a "superstar" who in reality is a mediocre, middle of the pack starting QB. Hell of a talent, but a mediocre QB.


Ok. You're clearly in the minority here so there's no need to debate this. You're completely wrong.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote: Dude, he's overrated. He's a "superstar" who in reality is a mediocre, middle of the pack starting QB. Hell of a talent, but a mediocre QB.


Ok. You're clearly in the minority here so there's no need to debate this. You're completely wrong.

He's in the middle third of starting QBs league wide. You disagree?
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am

Buc2 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Wowsers.. I thought Gettlemen had good job security there. Seems like an odd time to fire your GM and his staff just spent all offseason in FA and the draft modifying the roster. Why now make the move in January like everyone else so the new guy can make decisions?

I always liked Gettlmen's approach to team building and seemed to be inline with the HC. I'm sure he'll land on his feet.

Something behind the scenes must have blown all to hell.


Yep. This time of year you rarely see this move made unless there's tension that we don't know. I agree this is a case of that.

That said, Dread I actually feel this is the time to make a move like this. Scouting and personnel guys do most of their work from late spring/summer to the fall. They can get a new staff in there or hire from within just in time for college & NFL football season.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:59 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Ok. You're clearly in the minority here so there's no need to debate this. You're completely wrong.

He's in the middle third of starting QBs league wide. You disagree?


Top 10. Easily.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:He's in the middle third of starting QBs league wide. You disagree?


Top 10. Easily.

Definitely not easily. I know Cam had that amazing 2015 season, but it's clearly the outlier. And simply watching him play, it's clear he's not progressed as a passer. Add in a diminishing athletic profile and shoulder issues, and you got yourself a mediocre starter.

Brady
Rodgers
Ryan
Carr
Brees
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Stafford
Rivers
Cousins

That's 11 starters better than Cam, and that's not even counting Winston, Mariota, Wentz or Prescott, all guys who's respective teams would start them over Cam.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Concrete » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:30 pm

Teitan wrote:Well, they just fired their GM


I'm sure this has something to do with the Thomas Davis or Greg Olsen extensions.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:32 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Top 10. Easily.

Definitely not easily. I know Cam had that amazing 2015 season, but it's clearly the outlier. And simply watching him play, it's clear he's not progressed as a passer. Add in a diminishing athletic profile and shoulder issues, and you got yourself a mediocre starter.

Brady
Rodgers
Ryan
Carr
Brees
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Stafford
Rivers
Cousins

That's 11 starters better than Cam, and that's not even counting Winston, Mariota, Wentz or Prescott, all guys who's respective teams would start them over Cam.


Lol. If you say so, kiddo. As I said no need to debate this. He's not overrated. You're in the minority.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:57 pm

I agree. He's not overrated. He's rated right where he belongs...borderline top 10, but definitely in top 15.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:59 pm

Buc2 wrote:I agree. He's not overrated. He's rated right where he belongs...borderline top 10, but definitely in top 15.


Exactly.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Nano » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Gettlemen firing is a big surprise, he's a pretty good GM. Panther fans are livid right now
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:01 pm

Nano wrote:Gettlemen firing is a big surprise, he's a pretty good GM. Panther fans are livid right now


Because it's bad move. The Panthers hadn't had a winning season in 4 years prior to him being hired. In his 4 seasons as GM they go 40-23-1, win 3 division titles, and a SB berth. Only 4 other NFL teams have more playoff victories in the past 4 seasons than the Panthers.

Fans want to critique him for not re-signing Josh Norman, or cutting Steve Smith. But those are tough roster decisions that have to be made. At the end of the day the team won alot of football games and way more than before he arrived.

The grass isn't always greener. In this case I think the Panthers will regret this decision.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Something behind the scenes must have blown all to hell.


Yep. This time of year you rarely see this move made unless there's tension that we don't know. I agree this is a case of that.

That said, Dread I actually feel this is the time to make a move like this. Scouting and personnel guys do most of their work from late spring/summer to the fall. They can get a new staff in there or hire from within just in time for college & NFL football season.


I agree with your point regarding the scouting staff. But the GM is still the decision maker atop that department so what have him tinker with the roster all offseason just to fire him a week before Camp? When GMs are traditionally fired in January, the personnel staffs normally stay in place until after the draft for the reasons you provided. Personnel departments are always turning over come May around the NFL.

The timing of this is just odd b/c the normal offseason turnover for personnel guys is complete and team have their scouting departments ready to go w/ College football nearly here, so the Panthers have missed out on the optimal time to replace people.

I think there are reasons we don't see GMs get canned in July very often. There has to be something else to this imo.

Maybe the Owner was confident in Gettlemen's (and his staff) ability to draft and tinker with the roster in FA, but the Owner did NOT feel comfotable with how Gettlemen treated existing players and contracts. So with Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen coming up for extensions the Owner didn't want a replay of the fallout we saw w/ Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, and Josh Norman. Even though I still think all 3 decisions we're defensible and only the Steve Smith move was regrettable in hindsight.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Concrete » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:18 pm

Also, if you're going to make a move like this why let Beane go to the Bills, who's been in the league for 19 seasons; all with the Carolina Panthers. Being groomed from director of player personnel, to interim GM and assistant GM in 2015. Seems Gettleman and Richardson didn't see eye to eye on player personnel decisions probably stemming since Norman.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Super K » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:21 pm

All we can hope for is that this is, indeed a bad, BAD move for Carolina....
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:32 pm

Super K wrote:All we can hope for is that this is, indeed a bad, BAD move for Carolina....


It will be unless they make a home run hire. Just an odd/hard time to find a GM right now.

Gettleman wasn't flashy, but his approach was steady, he acquired and developed talent, and would've kept winning there. Now there is the potential for the bottom to fall out and the Panthers end back in the position they were in prior to them hiring Gettlemen.

We'll see... A lot more downside than upside to this move for the Panthers imo.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Concrete » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:11 pm

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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:20 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Top 10. Easily.

Definitely not easily. I know Cam had that amazing 2015 season, but it's clearly the outlier. And simply watching him play, it's clear he's not progressed as a passer. Add in a diminishing athletic profile and shoulder issues, and you got yourself a mediocre starter.

Brady
Rodgers
Ryan
Carr
Brees
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Stafford
Rivers
Cousins

That's 11 starters better than Cam, and that's not even counting Winston, Mariota, Wentz or Prescott, all guys who's respective teams would start them over Cam.


Pretty sure you're trolling, but just based on your list I'd take Cam over Luck, Cousins, Stafford, Roesthlisberger (not on the field enough).
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:20 pm

Concrete wrote:Image

I hope that's the Panther's for seasons to come.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:23 pm

Concrete wrote:Also, if you're going to make a move like this why let Beane go to the Bills, who's been in the league for 19 seasons; all with the Carolina Panthers. Being groomed from director of player personnel, to interim GM and assistant GM in 2015. Seems Gettleman and Richardson didn't see eye to eye on player personnel decisions probably stemming since Norman.


Yeah something isn't in Carolina. As a TB fan this is beautiful.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:48 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Definitely not easily. I know Cam had that amazing 2015 season, but it's clearly the outlier. And simply watching him play, it's clear he's not progressed as a passer. Add in a diminishing athletic profile and shoulder issues, and you got yourself a mediocre starter.

Brady
Rodgers
Ryan
Carr
Brees
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Stafford
Rivers
Cousins

That's 11 starters better than Cam, and that's not even counting Winston, Mariota, Wentz or Prescott, all guys who's respective teams would start them over Cam.


Pretty sure you're trolling, but just based on your list I'd take Cam over Luck, Cousins, Stafford, Roesthlisberger (not on the field enough).


I let him dig his own grave here because he's the only person who called Cam overrated. Now he's giving us his list of how he ranks guys abilities as a PASSER, not overall QB.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:01 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Yep. This time of year you rarely see this move made unless there's tension that we don't know. I agree this is a case of that.

That said, Dread I actually feel this is the time to make a move like this. Scouting and personnel guys do most of their work from late spring/summer to the fall. They can get a new staff in there or hire from within just in time for college & NFL football season.


I agree with your point regarding the scouting staff. But the GM is still the decision maker atop that department so what have him tinker with the roster all offseason just to fire him a week before Camp? When GMs are traditionally fired in January, the personnel staffs normally stay in place until after the draft for the reasons you provided. Personnel departments are always turning over come May around the NFL.

The timing of this is just odd b/c the normal offseason turnover for personnel guys is complete and team have their scouting departments ready to go w/ College football nearly here, so the Panthers have missed out on the optimal time to replace people.

I think there are reasons we don't see GMs get canned in July very often. There has to be something else to this imo.

Maybe the Owner was confident in Gettlemen's (and his staff) ability to draft and tinker with the roster in FA, but the Owner did NOT feel comfotable with how Gettlemen treated existing players and contracts. So with Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen coming up for extensions the Owner didn't want a replay of the fallout we saw w/ Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, and Josh Norman. Even though I still think all 3 decisions we're defensible and only the Steve Smith move was regrettable in hindsight.


I think all 3 of those decisions were to some degree regrettable. And the manner in which they were all played out was totally unprofessional. All 3 of those guys gave Gettleman a piece of their mind on social media today, which Williams being the most candid and honest, calling him a snake. I can't say whether this is a bad or good move for them but Jerry Richardson is a smart well respected owner. He doesn't make brash decisions very often, if at all. So this is definitely a decision he gave plenty of thought into and had done his research on. I get that they are division rivals and we all hope this is a bad decision for them. But keep in mind this is a job. If an employee at your job is behaving or performing in a manner that their superior doesn't think fits the status quo, they are let go. Same goes with the NFL. I think given what we know and the timing this move wasn't made based on football philosophy or decisions.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:05 pm

I thought Gettleman was overrated, this might be bad news for us if they hire someone who gets that team on point.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby Concrete » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:41 pm

Well John Dorsey (Chiefs) is out there who wouldn't be a big drop off and might have the best track record. The chiefs went 43-21 during his tenure. Trent Kirchner (Seahawks), former Panthers scout whose name has been thrown around by multiple teams in recent seasons, I think would be another interviewee to consider. Ryan Cowden (Titans) could potentially be the best organizational fit of the three, having spent 16 years with Carolina as a national scout prior to joining our very own Jon Robinson in Tennessee, who is well on his way to building something special.
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Re: Division Rival 2017: Carolina Panthers

Postby terrytate » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:52 pm

Here's to hoping Matt Millen gives them a good interview.
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