NBA finals 2017 : Cavs vs Warriors

[Zarniwoop]

The Golden State Warriors are even bigger favorites next year.

The Warriors, fresh off Monday night's 129-120 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers to clinch the NBA title, are listed as -200, odds-on favorites to win next year's championship, a historic price on a preseason favorite.

"They're going to be the highest favorite we've ever had going into a season, any team in any sport," Jeff Sherman, NBA oddsmaker at the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, told ESPN.



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unless they suffer a major string of injuries, i just can't see anyone beating them.

[uscbucsfan]

unless they suffer a major string of injuries, i just can't see anyone beating them.

Haven't you heard? The Cavs are going to get Cousins and George!!!

[DreadNaught]

unless they suffer a major string of injuries, i just can't see anyone beating them.

Haven't you heard? The Cavs are going to get Cousins and George!!!

[pewterpirates]

Bottom line, Golden State had 4 of the best 5 players in the series.

That wasn't the talk before the Finals started. Everyone said it was LeBron, KD, Kyrie, in order.

And not directed towards you, but I keep seeing all over social media that the Warriors needed 4 Hall of Famers to beat LeBron. How are we already throwing Klay Thompson and Draymond Green into the Hall of Fame? Steph & KD are locks. if Klay continues, then probably. But I don't see Green as a HOFer. So many people making so many excuses for LeBron's losses.

[uscbucsfan]

Bottom line, Golden State had 4 of the best 5 players in the series.

That wasn't the talk before the Finals started. Everyone said it was LeBron, KD, Kyrie, in order.

And not directed towards you, but I keep seeing all over social media that the Warriors needed 4 Hall of Famers to beat LeBron. How are we already throwing Klay Thompson and Draymond Green into the Hall of Fame? Steph & KD are locks. if Klay continues, then probably. But I don't see Green as a HOFer. So many people making so many excuses for LeBron's losses.

It's all subjective, but earlier in this thread Ken put Curry over Kyrie as a more complete player. I don't think there is much of an argument for Draymond or Klay over Kyrie, but 4 of out 5 for 4 out of 5 sounds better than GS had 3 of the best 5 players and won 4 out of 5 games, right?

[Miller4Prez64]

I'm not a fan of LeBron, I think he's a nice guy and a dominant player but when he started entering his prime he was a rival of the Magic and I haven't really warmed up to him since. However, this loss is not on him. He became the first player in NBA Finals history to average a triple double and he still lost in 5. He needed a historic shooting night to avoid being swept, the Warriors were just top to bottom better than the Cavs. While people love talking about witnessing the greatness of LeBron James, we are also witnessing what could be one of the greatest teams assembled. Instead of taking the butthurt super team side, I'm just enjoying seeing this greatness.

[PrimeMinister]

I'm not a fan of LeBron, I think he's a nice guy and a dominant player but when he started entering his prime he was a rival of the Magic and I haven't really warmed up to him since. However, this loss is not on him. He became the first player in NBA Finals history to average a triple double and he still lost in 5. He needed a historic shooting night to avoid being swept, the Warriors were just top to bottom better than the Cavs. While people love talking about witnessing the greatness of LeBron James, we are also witnessing what could be one of the greatest teams assembled. Instead of taking the butthurt super team side, I'm just enjoying seeing this greatness.

Well said. There was no chance in hell of the Cavs winning 4 of 7 on this team.

[Fiasco]

The Golden State Warriors are even bigger favorites next year.

The Warriors, fresh off Monday night's 129-120 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers to clinch the NBA title, are listed as -200, odds-on favorites to win next year's championship, a historic price on a preseason favorite.

"They're going to be the highest favorite we've ever had going into a season, any team in any sport," Jeff Sherman, NBA oddsmaker at the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, told ESPN.



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unless they suffer a major string of injuries, i just can't see anyone beating them.

If spurs can sign Chris Paul and get a healthy Leonard during the series, they can defi I felt compete with them. Unless Zaza decides to take them both out in the first quarter of the first game.

[PrimeMinister]

The Golden State Warriors are even bigger favorites next year.

The Warriors, fresh off Monday night's 129-120 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers to clinch the NBA title, are listed as -200, odds-on favorites to win next year's championship, a historic price on a preseason favorite.

"They're going to be the highest favorite we've ever had going into a season, any team in any sport," Jeff Sherman, NBA oddsmaker at the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, told ESPN.



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unless they suffer a major string of injuries, i just can't see anyone beating them.

If spurs can sign Chris Paul and get a healthy Leonard during the series, they can defi I felt compete with them. Unless Zaza decides to take them both out in the first quarter of the first game.

By compete I assume you mean "win a couple games". Adding Chris Paul will not get the Spurs anything except a more interesting series against the Warriors.

[Super K]

If spurs can sign Chris Paul and get a healthy Leonard during the series, they can defi I felt compete with them. Unless Zaza decides to take them both out in the first quarter of the first game.

By compete I assume you mean "win a couple games". Adding Chris Paul will not get the Spurs anything except a more interesting series against the Warriors.

Agreed..

Warriors are too damn versatile..and shoot too damn well..

They move the ball well, defend like fiends..

And every night, at least 2 out of their top 3 are "on"...giving them 60 right off the bat..

[Fiasco]

If spurs can sign Chris Paul and get a healthy Leonard during the series, they can defi I felt compete with them. Unless Zaza decides to take them both out in the first quarter of the first game.

By compete I assume you mean "win a couple games". Adding Chris Paul will not get the Spurs anything except a more interesting series against the Warriors.

Right, which is a lot better than them cake-walking to another championship. Greg Popovich found an answer for when Miami first started this superteam stuff, and I don't doubt he can come up with something for Golden State as well. They may not win the series but GS sure as hell wont be cruising past them either.

[NYBF]

By compete I assume you mean "win a couple games". Adding Chris Paul will not get the Spurs anything except a more interesting series against the Warriors.

Right, which is a lot better than them cake-walking to another championship. Greg Popovich found an answer for when Miami first started this superteam stuff, and I don't doubt he can come up with something for Golden State as well. They may not win the series but GS sure as hell wont be cruising past them either.

Hold on a minute... LeBron said that wasn't a super team.

[Fiasco]

Right, which is a lot better than them cake-walking to another championship. Greg Popovich found an answer for when Miami first started this superteam stuff, and I don't doubt he can come up with something for Golden State as well. They may not win the series but GS sure as hell wont be cruising past them either.

Hold on a minute... LeBron said that wasn't a super team.

Yeah, I usually am on the supporting side of LeBron when people are bashing him for no reason, but that statement from him was surprising and wrong. Bosh, Wade, LeBron, and one of the best 3 point shooters of all time Ray Allen? That's a superteam

[Ken Carson]

That wasn't the talk before the Finals started. Everyone said it was LeBron, KD, Kyrie, in order.

And not directed towards you, but I keep seeing all over social media that the Warriors needed 4 Hall of Famers to beat LeBron. How are we already throwing Klay Thompson and Draymond Green into the Hall of Fame? Steph & KD are locks. if Klay continues, then probably. But I don't see Green as a HOFer. So many people making so many excuses for LeBron's losses.

It's all subjective, but earlier in this thread Ken put Curry over Kyrie as a more complete player. I don't think there is much of an argument for Draymond or Klay over Kyrie, but 4 of out 5 for 4 out of 5 sounds better than GS had 3 of the best 5 players and won 4 out of 5 games, right?

Kyrie is a very one dimensional player. He is a great scorer, ala Carmelo Anthony. He stinks on defense, and is really just an above average PG in the league. He does not sniff the Chris Paul/Stephen Curry/Russell Westbrook tier of point guards. I could make the case he is below the Damian Lillard/John Wall tier, too. I'd put him in there with guys like Kyle Lowry and Mike Conley.

As far as Draymond goes, he's one of the best, if not the best, defensive player in the league. People weight offense like 80/20 in their basketball rankings, and it's half the game. He's certainly not the scorer Irving is, but he is 5 times the defender. His defensive metrics are off the charts, and you probably didn't know that this guy who guards the point and centers led the league in steals per game.

If you want to argue Klay vs Kyrie, then you're right. Maybe I overstated there. But honestly, it's closer than most people think.

[PrimeMinister]

Draymond is not a better defender than Leonard.

[PrimeMinister]

By compete I assume you mean "win a couple games". Adding Chris Paul will not get the Spurs anything except a more interesting series against the Warriors.

Right, which is a lot better than them cake-walking to another championship. Greg Popovich found an answer for when Miami first started this superteam stuff, and I don't doubt he can come up with something for Golden State as well. They may not win the series but GS sure as hell wont be cruising past them either.

That won't change the outcome. Still a Warriors championship without a doubt.

[Ken Carson]

Draymond is not a better defender than Leonard.

"As for Draymond, he is one of the best, if not the best..." leaves room for hairsplitting of who is better.

FWIW, Green had more defensive win shares than Leonard, second only to Gobert. Draymond also had a higher defensive rating, second only to Drummond. So objectively speaking, the advanced metrics favor Green over Kawhi. And don't get me wrong, Kawhi is great, and probably he best wing defender in recent memory, but Draymond locks down point guards and centers. His versatility allows the Warriors to play small.

[DreadNaught]

Draymond is not a better defender than Leonard.

"As for Draymond, he is one of the best, if not the best..." leaves room for hairsplitting of who is better.

FWIW, Green had more defensive win shares than Leonard, second only to Gobert. Draymond also had a higher defensive rating, second only to Drummond. So objectively speaking, the advanced metrics favor Green over Kawhi. And don't get me wrong, Kawhi is great, and probably he best wing defender in recent memory, but Draymond locks down point guards and centers. His versatility allows the Warriors to play small.

I agree it's splitting hairs and the advanced metrics are what they are. But an elite wing defender who takes on the Lebron's and KD's of the world are the most valuable in today's NBA imho and I don't think that value gets factored into the metrics. Not taking anything away from Draymond, he's a great defender and a perfect compliment to that GS team. But what Kawhi offers with his ability to check the truly elite offensive players is more valuable imo.

[PrimeMinister]

"As for Draymond, he is one of the best, if not the best..." leaves room for hairsplitting of who is better.

FWIW, Green had more defensive win shares than Leonard, second only to Gobert. Draymond also had a higher defensive rating, second only to Drummond. So objectively speaking, the advanced metrics favor Green over Kawhi. And don't get me wrong, Kawhi is great, and probably he best wing defender in recent memory, but Draymond locks down point guards and centers. His versatility allows the Warriors to play small.

I agree it's splitting hairs and the advanced metrics are what they are. But an elite wing defender who takes on the Lebron's and KD's of the world are the most valuable in today's NBA imho and I don't think that value gets factored into the metrics. Not taking anything away from Draymond, he's a great defender and a perfect compliment to that GS team. But what Kawhi offers with his ability to check the truly elite offensive players is more valuable imo.

Yep. Draymond is a GREAT defender. He just isn't Leonard. I'd leave Leonard alone on KD or Lebron and feel ok with my decision. He won't completely shut them down, but he will make them hate their life for 48 minutes.

[Ken Carson]

I agree it's splitting hairs and the advanced metrics are what they are. But an elite wing defender who takes on the Lebron's and KD's of the world are the most valuable in today's NBA imho and I don't think that value gets factored into the metrics. Not taking anything away from Draymond, he's a great defender and a perfect compliment to that GS team. But what Kawhi offers with his ability to check the truly elite offensive players is more valuable imo.

Yep. Draymond is a GREAT defender. He just isn't Leonard. I'd leave Leonard alone on KD or Lebron and feel ok with my decision. He won't completely shut them down, but he will make them hate their life for 48 minutes.

Playing Kahwi on LeBron doesn't fundamentally let you alter basketball the way having Draymond cover Andre Drummond does. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Noles1724]

if being a defender is a factor, like it seemed to be, then Klay gets a big edge here. He's extremely under-rated for his defense. Kyrie is a better driver of the ball, but Klay can simply go nuts from behind the arc at times.

[Ken Carson]

if being a defender is a factor, like it seemed to be, then Klay gets a big edge here. He's extremely under-rated for his defense. Kyrie is a better driver of the ball, but Klay can simply go nuts from behind the arc at times.

I don't want to bash Kyrie too much. He can create his own shot with the best of them, and that is worth a ton in today's NBA. But I agree that Klay is even with Kyrie or just slightly behind.

[uscbucsfan]

In the aftermath of the finals it appears that the Cavs are imploding. It all could be BS, but so far there are rumors saying that:

-Griffin was fired because he wanted to win next year, not plan for the future by getting Butler or George.
-Griffin wasn't willing to give up Kyrie and Dan Gilbert wants to see what they will get for him.
-Gilbert wants to plan for the future without LeBron instead of going all in for another championship next year.
- The Cavs are aggressively shopping Love and maybe Kyrie now.

Around the league there are rumors that the Suns, Celtics, and Lakers are all shopping their picks to get either PG or Butler. PG has said he wants to go to LA next year. I think it would be dumb for LA to give up a high pick when they could just get PG next year.

All rumors, but really interesting.

[PrimeMinister]

Griffin was rumored to be leaving a few months ago.

[uscbucsfan]

Griffin was rumored to be leaving a few months ago.

He wanted to speak with the Magic and a few others, but the Cavs wouldnt let him talk to other teams. Then they fired him yesterday.