Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:22 am

I wasn't arguing anything, Delt. As I said, climate change...

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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:36 am



Is like the frogs turning gay?
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:08 am

DreadNaught wrote:


Is like the frogs turning gay?


the "gay frogs" thing is from the effects of atrazine, one of the most widely used pesticides in the world:

http://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/

Atrazine, one of the world’s most widely used pesticides, wreaks havoc with the sex lives of adult male frogs, emasculating three-quarters of them and turning one in 10 into females, according to a new study by University of California, Berkeley, biologists.

The 75 percent that are chemically castrated are essentially “dead” because of their inability to reproduce in the wild, reports UC Berkeley’s Tyrone B. Hayes, professor of integrative biology.

“These male frogs are missing testosterone and all the things that testosterone controls, including sperm. So their fertility is as low as 10 percent in some cases, and that is only if we isolate those animals and pair them with females,” he said. “In an environment where they are competing with unexposed animals, they have zero chance of reproducing.”

The 10 percent or more that turn from males into females – something not known to occur under natural conditions in amphibians – can successfully mate with male frogs but, because these females are genetically male, all their offspring are male.

“When we grow these guys up, depending on the family, we will get anywhere from 10 to 50 percent females,” Hayes said. “In a population, the genetically male females can decrease or wipe out a population just because they skew sex ratios so badly.”

Though the experiments were performed on a common laboratory frog, the African clawed frog (Xenopus laevis), field studies indicate that atrazine, a potent endocrine disruptor, similarly affects frogs in the wild, and could possibly be one of the causes of amphibian declines around the globe, Hayes said.

Hayes and his UC Berkeley colleagues report their results in this week’s online early edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. In last week’s issue of the Journal of Experimental Biology, Hayes and colleagues published a review of the possible causes of a worldwide decline in amphibian populations, concluding that atrazine and other hormone-disrupting pollutants are a likely contributor because they affect recruitment of new individuals and make amphibians more susceptible to disease.

“These kinds of problems, like sex-reversing animals skewing sex ratios, are much more dangerous than any chemical that would kill off a population of frogs,” he said. “In exposed populations, it looks like there are frogs breeding but, in fact, the population is being very slowly degraded by the introduction of these altered animals.”

Some 80 million pounds of the herbicide atrazine are applied annually in the United States on corn and sorghum to control weeds and increase crop yield, but such widespread use also makes atrazine the most common pesticide contaminant of ground and surface water, according to various studies.

More and more research, however, is showing that atrazine interferes with endocrine hormones, such as estrogen and testosterone – in fish, amphibians, birds, reptiles, laboratory rodents and even human cell lines at levels of parts per billion. Recent studies also found a possible link between human birth defects and low birth weight and atrazine exposure in the womb.

As a result of these studies, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is reviewing its regulations on use of the pesticide. Several states are considering banning atrazine, and six class action lawsuits have been filed seeking to eliminate its use. The European Union already bars the use of atrazine.

Hayes’s studies in the early 2000s were the first to show that the hormonal effects of atrazine disrupt sexual development in amphibians. Working with the African clawed frog, Hayes and his colleagues showed in 2002 that tadpoles raised in atrazine-contaminated water become hermaphrodites – they develop both female (ovaries) and male (testes) gonads. This occurred at atrazine levels as low as 0.1 parts per billion (ppb), 30 times lower than levels allowed in drinking water by the EPA (3 ppb).

Subsequent studies showed that native leopard frogs (Rana pipiens) collected from atrazine-contaminated streams in the Midwest, including from areas up to 1,000 miles from where atrazine is applied, often had eggs in their testes. And many males had lower testosterone levels than normal females and smaller than normal voice boxes, presumably limiting their ability to call mates.

Hayes’ research also established that many frogs in Midwestern streams contaminated by atrazine and other pesticides have compromised immune systems, leading to increased mortality from bacterial disease.

Those early studies were hampered by the inability to easily distinguish genetically male from genetically female frogs. Male frogs have two identical sex chromosomes (ZZ) while females have both a Z and a W – the opposite of XX female and XY male humans. But because all frog chromosomes look the same under a light microscope, it’s not simple to distinguish male from female.

To overcome this, Hayes’ colleague Roger Liu developed a line of all-male frogs so that the genetics would be unequivocal.

“Before, we knew we got fewer males than we should have, and we got hermaphrodites. Now, we have clearly shown that many of these animals are sex-reversed males,” Hayes said. “We have animals that are females, in the sense that they behave like females: They have estrogen, lay eggs, they mate with other males. Atrazine has caused a hormonal imbalance that has made them develop into the wrong sex, in terms of their genetic constitution.”

Coincidentally, another lab in 2008 discovered a sex-linked genetic marker in Xenopus, which has allowed Hayes to confirm the genetic sex of his frogs.

In Hayes’ study, where 40 frogs lived for about three years after hatching in water with 2.5 ppb atrazine, about 10 percent of the frogs appeared to be resistant to the effects of the pesticide. In ongoing studies, Hayes is investigating whether this apparent resistance is inherited, as well as whether the sex-reversed males have more susceptible offspring.

Syngenta, which manufactures atrazine, disputes many of these studies, including Hayes’, that show adverse effects of the pesticide. But Hayes said that “when you have studies all over the world showing problems with atrazine in every vertebrate that has been looked at – fish, frogs, reptiles, birds, mammals – all of them can’t be wrong.”

“What people have to realize is that, just as with taking pharmaceuticals, they have to decide whether the benefits outweigh the costs,” he said. “Not every frog or every human will be affected by atrazine, but do you want to take a chance, what with all the other things that we know atrazine does, not just to humans but to rodents and frogs and fish?”



The turtle thing is a temperature controlled thing. turtles have their sex determined by temperature, weirdly enough. this occurrence is a proxy for increased water temps - and just illustrates some of the not-often-thought-about damages to the environment/foodweb caused by throwing nature out of whack
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:12 am

I think millennial males are injesting too much Atrazine
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:27 am

my first reaction is laughter. my second reaction is despair
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:32 am

Don't get too giddy. This is just a minor setback to global warming and the warming will continue come 2070 when this solar minimum cycle comes to an end. This reprieve, however, could give science more time to find ways to offset the effects of excess CO2 in the atmosphere by then. This story ties into other stories I've posted here about the effects decreased sunspot activity can have when it comes to Earth's climate. One of the other stories I posted, however, thinks that this decrease in sunspot activity is just the beginning of a permanent trend as our sun enters its middle age. Hopefully that isn't the case.

Feb 12, 2018 03:53 PM IST | Source: Moneycontrol.com
Scientists say sun may become 7% cooler by 2050, warn of mini ice age
Scientists, based on 20 years of observations and collected data, have calculated that sun will be nearly seven percent cooler and dimmer by 2050 causing a mini ice age.

On the basis of 20 years of observations and collected data, scientists have calculated that the sun will be nearly seven percent cooler and dimmer by 2050, which could result in a mini ice age.

A research team based at the University of California in San Diego believes that they have figured out a way to track the sun’s 11-year-cycle.

The sun moves through an 11-year-cycle where it experiences active and quiet periods, known as the solar maximum and solar minimum. The researchers believe they have worked out when the next solar minimum could occur.

During a solar minimum, the sun’s magnetism decreases, fewer sunspots form and less ultraviolet radiation makes it to the surface of the planet. The conditions mean the sun’s surface appears clearer and becomes dimmer.

According to the study, conditions in the next cold period, labelled as a “grand minimum”, could be similar to those experienced in Europe in the middle of the 17th century. Back then, the River Thames froze as a result of the extremely low temperatures.

Low temperatures also caused the Baltic Sea to freeze in 1968. Scientists claim that the period, known as the ‘Maunder Minimum’ was similar to a mini ice age. The head of the research team, Dan Lubin, believes we may experience even worse conditions in 2050.

According to media reports, the research team believes there is a “significant probability” of a near-future grand minimum considering the downward sunspot pattern in recent solar cycles, which is similar to the period prior to previous grand minimum events.

By their estimates, the grand minimum would most likely cool the earth by about 0.25 percent between 2020 and 2070. As a result, the surface of the earth would cool by up to several tenths of a degree Celsius, which is not enough to reverse the impact of global warming but could dilute its effects for a while.

The study said that when the sun’s energy is reduced, the first thing that occurs is the thinning of the stratospheric ozone layer.

"That thinning in turn changes the temperature structure of the stratosphere, which then changes the dynamics of the lower atmosphere, especially wind and weather patterns," it noted.

According to the study, despite the cooler temperatures, this will not put a stop to climate change, however, it could slow down the effects.

“The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,” the study said.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:26 am

I heard its going to happen sooner than that....it's going to be two days before the day after tomorrow

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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:09 am

Freakishly warm air has again surged over the North Pole, and sea ice is breaking up north of Greenland — in winter
By Tom Yulsman | February 26, 2018 4:58 pm

Meanwhile, frigid polar air has spilled south into Eurasia and western North America. Is there a connection to human-caused warming?

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A weather model forecast for how near-surface temperatures should vary from the long-term mean between Feb. 24th and 26th, 2018. Pinkish colors over the North Pole indicate temperatures near or above freezing. (Source: ClimateReanalyzer.org)

It’s happening again: In the dead of winter, warm air from the south is surging across the Arctic toward the North Pole.

Today, weather models suggest that temperatures there have indeed soared to above freezing.

Meanwhile, cold polar air has spilled south into Eurasia and western North America. It’s almost as if someone left the Arctic’s refrigerator door open, allowing its frigid air to pour out and warm air to flow in.

While dramatic warming events like this have happened before, a recent study shows that they are becoming more frequent and intense. In the study, scientists looked at winter air temperatures over the Arctic Ocean from 1893 to 2017. They found that since 1980, an additional six Arctic winter warming events have been occurring each winter at the North Pole, and they’re lasting about 12 hours longer, on average.

You can see what’s happening right now in the Arctic by watching the animation above. It shows weather modeling forecasts for temperature anomalies near the surface, starting on Saturday Feb. 24th and continuing for about two days. The colors indicate the degree to which temperatures are departing from the long-term average.

Look for a large red and pink blob flowing north from Greenland toward the North Pole, located where the hatched lines cross. The pink is indicative of the most dramatic warming.

Looking further ahead, weather models are forecasting that on March 1, another large blob of freakishly warm air will begin surging toward the pole, this time from the Pacific.

The current surge is not just a one-off. Temperatures at Cape Morris Jesup on the northern coast of Greenland just 400 miles from the North Pole have risen above freezing six times since mid-February. Previously, this weather station has experienced above freezing temperature in winter only briefly during February in 2011 and 2017.

{ SNIP }

Image

The image above, acquired by NASA’s Terra Satellite on Feb. 24, 2018, shows one startling impact. The sea ice north of Greenland has fractured, allowing a large area of dark open water to form. From left to right, the most ice-free area is about 225 miles long – a little longer than the distance between Washington and New York City.

Any sort of large opening in the sea ice north of Greenland is abnormal. This is where thick, old sea ice once dominated. And even at the end of summer in September, this area is normally ice-covered.

“This has me more worried than the warm temps in the Arctic right now,” says Mike MacFerrin, a University of Colorado scientist specializing in ice sheets. “That sea ice north of Greenland [is] among the last vestiges of old, thick sea ice existing in the Arctic ocean. Break it apart, it can circulate straight out into the Atlantic come summer. We’ll see what comes,” he wrote in a Tweet this morning.

Other scientists are concerned as well. “This large open water area is very unusual,” says Lars Keleschke, a physicist and sea ice expert at the University of Hamburg, writing in a Tweet yesterday. “I haven’t seen a similar event like this before in the almost 25 years I now work with satellite data.”

{ SNIP }

Looking at the Arctic region overall, sea ice extent is running at record low levels as we head into March – just as it should be building to a peak in extent at the end of winter later in the month.

What’s going on?

In the big scheme of things, the Arctic is continuing to warm and change more rapidly than any other region on Earth. This is a consequence of our emissions of heat-trapping carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. And if we continue with business as usual, the changes will likely intensify.

But a sudden, dramatic warming of the high Arctic like the one that’s happening right now is a shorter-term phenomenon influenced by a complex interplay of factors. To be sure, these include natural ones. But research suggests that human-caused climate change could also be playing a role.

Right now, the proximate causes of the warm air flooding into the Arctic are an unusual split in a large feature called the stratospheric polar vortex, as well as storminess.

Continue (more graphs & videos)...
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby NYBF » Thu May 17, 2018 2:22 pm

Seems all our fears were completely unfounded. There's a perfectly rational reason sea levels are rising.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/ ... level-rise
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Rocker » Thu May 17, 2018 3:32 pm

NYBF wrote:Seems all our fears were completely unfounded. There's a perfectly rational reason sea levels are rising.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/ ... level-rise


There needs to be a word more powerful than “idiot.”

Like... cockass.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby DreadNaught » Thu May 17, 2018 3:35 pm

Rocker wrote:
NYBF wrote:Seems all our fears were completely unfounded. There's a perfectly rational reason sea levels are rising.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/ ... level-rise


There needs to be a word more powerful than “idiot.”

Like... cockass.


Smdh, don't these people have PR folks that advise them? Although that doesn't work with Trump so I guess some people can't help themselves.

It reminds me of when that one guy said Guam was going to tip over.

Still not as bad as the flat earthers. Those idiots need to be sterilized.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:17 am

I just read this article that, basically, states that the Greenhouse Gas Theory is bs.

https://principia-scientific.org/the-gr ... ssibility/

Whether the author is right or wrong, I decided to read the arguments in the comments section. A lot of the comments appeared to be from physicists, engineers and climatologists arguing with each other. Sometimes quite vehemently. One thing became abundantly obvious. Some of those guys have been arguing with each other for years. :lol:

My conclusion from all that reading? People have a lot of nerve to call global warming "settled science." Science has a long way to go to understand the dynamics of the earth system. You and me? It doesn't matter one wit what we think because we're just along for the ride.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu May 31, 2018 9:02 am

Buc2 wrote:I just read this article that, basically, states that the Greenhouse Gas Theory is bs.

https://principia-scientific.org/the-gr ... ssibility/

Whether the author is right or wrong, I decided to read the arguments in the comments section. A lot of the comments appeared to be from physicists, engineers and climatologists arguing with each other. Sometimes quite vehemently. One thing became abundantly obvious. Some of those guys have been arguing with each other for years. :lol:

My conclusion from all that reading? People have a lot of nerve to call global warming "settled science." Science has a long way to go to understand the dynamics of the earth system. You and me? It doesn't matter one wit what we think because we're just along for the ride.


I remember your fight in this previously, but I'm curious.

Do you think there is any doubt that what we do has an impact on the planet and the climate? Do you think that what we are doing does not affect surface temperature?

It seems like an odd hill to die on as MB loves to say, as it goes against common sense. Simply because Science can't prove something beyond a shadow of a doubt doesn't make it false. I could get behind someone debating the gravity of man made global warming or harming of the earth, but anyone who says it's completely bullshit and we have 0 impact are grouped with 9/11 truthers and flat Earthers, IMO.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby bucfanclw » Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 am

I was reading through a thread and it turns out this whole gravity theory is BS. There's all these scientists arguing over its cause and how it affects particles on the sub-atomic level.

My conclusion from the reading? People have a lot of nerve to call gravity "settled science".
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu May 31, 2018 9:57 am

Buc2 wrote:I just read this article that, basically, states that the Greenhouse Gas Theory is bs.

https://principia-scientific.org/the-gr ... ssibility/

Whether the author is right or wrong, I decided to read the arguments in the comments section. A lot of the comments appeared to be from physicists, engineers and climatologists arguing with each other. Sometimes quite vehemently. One thing became abundantly obvious. Some of those guys have been arguing with each other for years. :lol:

My conclusion from all that reading? People have a lot of nerve to call global warming "settled science." Science has a long way to go to understand the dynamics of the earth system. You and me? It doesn't matter one wit what we think because we're just along for the ride.


I'll be back later if I get the chance, training the interns today (just kidding I just wrote it out right now lol) - but I'll say this:

1) that article is dookie. his definitions are all over the place and his understanding of radiation and energy transfer is wrong. That guy Dave in the comments does a good job in his first couple posts proving the article and John wrong.

2) he misses the entire point about greenhouse gas. he works himself up in a tizzy trying to redefine heat, and entirely misses the point that GHG concept is based on the *rate* at which *re-emitted longwave radiation* is add/trapped in the lower atmosphere, relative to the *rate* at which that heat is able to escape from the ALREADY thicker, more dense, lower atmosphere; up to the lighter, less-dense atmosphere.


One thing he is neglecting to mention all, is the mechanism in which all this heat trapping occurs. It's a very simple concept and is completely intuitive if you think about it - and the best part is, its ALL OBSERVABLE AND ALL PREDICTABLE AND ALL REPEATABLE.

We used to do this exercise back when I was in school:
- We would take the earth, treat it like a standard "black body" object floating in space. (more about Stefan-Boltzmann law and "black body" radiation/temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%E2%80%93Boltzmann_law)
- You could do this for any planet or any object really.
- And you take the amount of radiation that is emitted from the sun onto your black body planet (1360 W/m2 for the earth), and you calculate what the temperature of an Earth-size object floating near our sun, using the Stefan Boltzmann equation:

Image

So, as a black body, the average earth temp SHOULD be 279 Kelvin (which is about 6 degrees C, or 43 degrees F), which is lower than what we know it is.

- But we're missing a few things. First, the surface of the earth ISN'T a black body, it's oceans and trees and buildings and ice and sand and seas. Every single one of these surfaces absorbs sunlight at different levels. Ice, for instance, reflects 50-70% of all incoming sunlight - whereas the ocean reflects only about 0.06%. The term for how well different surfaces reflect sunlight is "albedo", you can google "albedo of..." and see for yourself what surfaces reflect how well. The higher the albedo, the higher the reflectivity. Anyways, the AVERAGE of the entire earth is about .3, or meaning that 30% of the radiation that the earth receives is immediately reflected back out to space, while 70% of the radiation is absorbed by the surface and converted into *longwave radiation* (infrared "heat").


So even if our planet absorbed 100% of the incoming sun, our temperature is lower than what we observe (by walking around and actually living on a warm, sunny planet) - THEN - we tack on the fact that our planet actually only absorbs 70% of the incoming radiation (the other 30% is reflected back due to ice / sand, etc) - THIS MEANS WE'RE EVEN FURTHER AWAY from our observable temperature

With the earth's albedo (0.3) taken into account (multiply by 0.7^1/4), we calculate that the average temperature of earth should be 255 K or -18 deg C, or -0.4 deg F

So clearly something is off. We are missing something. Something is not being taken into account. And what's that something?


The Motherfucking Atmosphere.

So then, when you take the earth's atmospheric composition (78% N2, 21% O2, 1% CO2, CH4, Xenon, Argon and other ****), and account for the effecitveness the different types of gases (namely, what we call "greenhouse gases") trap *longwave radiation*, and you put it in your equation...

guess what your resulting temperature is... 288 K ... orrrr 58.73 deg F


Google, what's the earth's average temperature? Oh gee, nasa measures it to be 58 degrees!


The atmosphere traps heat. The thickness of the atmosphere, and namely the amount of very-effective-at-trapping-heat molecules, like CO2 and CH4, effects how much of that long-wave radiation (heat) is trapped near the earth's surface. That's it. It's settled science.

more: http://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/ees/climate/lectures/radiation/
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu May 31, 2018 10:19 am

mind you, Buc2, after a lot of consideration, I relatively agree with the concept that we shouldn't necessarily spend a ton of money (governments at least) trying to abate this. It is the world's biggest collective action problem, and because we're facing it at a time when humanity is still (due to our lack of philosophical evolution) extremely fractured - and you have countries like China and India (and then the coming African growth) overshadowing (by orders of magnitude) anything the US / EU could possibly do to abate this - I don't even really think there's anything to do about it. It's just kind of going to happen, and we should focus on trying to colonize other planets instead of trying desperately to hit the breaks on a 10,000 ton ocean liner.

But it IS happening, there's no doubt about that. And if you follow the logic:

- The atmosphere is what keeps the earth from being a frozen ball of ice (verifiable by equations / well-established scientific constants)
- There are certain parts of the atmosphere (CO2, CH4, N2O, H2O), who's concentrations are the driving deterministic factor in how well our atmosphere traps heat
- Our human activities happen to increase the concentration of those molecules that determine how much heat is trapped

Then it is logical to understand that, due to our behavior, we are increasing the amount of heat trapped in our atmosphere, and thus, changing the physical, chemical, and biological dynamics of the surface of our planet. And if we use historical comparisons to past climates that exhibited very similar levels of those determining atmospheric components, and we put into context, the RATE at which we are altering our atmosphere, there is very good reason to look at this issue with some concern.
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Thu May 31, 2018 1:26 pm

Global warming = Yes.
Man-Made = I'm not 100% convinced. Mainly because of all the back and forth arguments about it from scientists and my deep distrust of politicians.

Pretty sure I've stated this stance somewhere within these pages.

If it is man-made, what can I do about it? Not a whole helluva lot. Drive a Prius? Turn my A/C up to 80?

Beard is probably closer to the truth of the matter. The genie is out of the bottle and there's no getting him back in it. Time to throw more money at Elon Musk and his Marsketeers and start working on feasible ways to get off this planet permanently.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby mdb1958 » Thu May 31, 2018 7:19 pm

A dork brain talking to fools: Hey! Lets give out trillions of dollars to other countries so it will stop the ice from melting.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:08 am

lmao
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby RedLeader » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:08 am

Thats an impressive breakdown, beard.


Good reading. Thanks.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Buc2 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:31 am

RedLeader wrote:Thats an impressive breakdown, beard.


Good reading. Thanks.

Indeed. Excellent post, beard. And thanks for taking the time to write it up.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:06 am

You got it bros - thanks!
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:48 am

beardmcdoug wrote:You got it bros - thanks!


Now do one on our country selling metal scrap to China. They smelt the materials on the ship so they can get it ready to make stuff to ship right back over to us.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:58 am

Can you calculate how far along we are getting our atmosphere screwed up by Hawaii and that damn volcano?
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:31 am

mdb1958 wrote:Can you calculate how far along we are getting our atmosphere screwed up by Hawaii and that damn volcano?


Interesting you ask this mdb - the volcano example is perfect for understanding the magnitude of our output of CO2 and other GHG's - I'm not sure if they've measured the Hawaii one, but here's something to give you an idea:

So do you remember the 2010 Iceland volcano explosion that was one of the largest in recent history?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_eruptions_of_Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

The volcanic explosion was so huge that it grounded all flights in Europe for 7 days. It was the largest air travel disturbance since WWII. 20 Countries affected, over 10 million travelers affected.

So this was a unique opportunity to compare the trade off between what the air travel for those 7 days WOULD have put into the air, compared to what the volcano actually put into the air:

From wiki:
The grounding of European flights avoided about 3.44×10^8 kg of CO2 emissions per day, while the volcano emitted about 1.5×10^8 kg of CO2 per day


Meaning the air travel over Europe puts out, daily, TWICE the amount of CO2 that one of the largest volcanic explosions in recent history put out daily.


One of the largest volcanic explosions in recent history was equal to HALF of the air travel of Europe

Only the air travel.

Of only Europe.



Our CO2 emissions, across all industries, across the world are dwarfing the earth's natural emissions by several orders of magnitude. There is nothing out there in the world that is nearly as efficient at taking old dead, compressed plants and plankton from underground (i.e. coal and oil) and putting it into the sky as humans are. We are the ones driving it. It's us.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:45 am

Beard, you're debating science with a man who accepts without question that a jewish carpenter rose from the dead to absolve him of the crime of being himself, yet also thinks the notion that pollution is bad is based on sketchy evidence.

I don't think you're going to win him over.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby The Outsider » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:14 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Can you calculate how far along we are getting our atmosphere screwed up by Hawaii and that damn volcano?


Interesting you ask this mdb - the volcano example is perfect for understanding the magnitude of our output of CO2 and other GHG's - I'm not sure if they've measured the Hawaii one, but here's something to give you an idea:

So do you remember the 2010 Iceland volcano explosion that was one of the largest in recent history?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_eruptions_of_Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

The volcanic explosion was so huge that it grounded all flights in Europe for 7 days. It was the largest air travel disturbance since WWII. 20 Countries affected, over 10 million travelers affected.

So this was a unique opportunity to compare the trade off between what the air travel for those 7 days WOULD have put into the air, compared to what the volcano actually put into the air:

From wiki:
The grounding of European flights avoided about 3.44×10^8 kg of CO2 emissions per day, while the volcano emitted about 1.5×10^8 kg of CO2 per day


Meaning the air travel over Europe puts out, daily, TWICE the amount of CO2 that one of the largest volcanic explosions in recent history put out daily.


One of the largest volcanic explosions in recent history was equal to HALF of the air travel of Europe

Only the air travel.

Of only Europe.



Our CO2 emissions, across all industries, across the world are dwarfing the earth's natural emissions by several orders of magnitude. There is nothing out there in the world that is nearly as efficient at taking old dead, compressed plants and plankton from underground (i.e. coal and oil) and putting it into the sky as humans are. We are the ones driving it. It's us.


I also think it's important to point out for this comparison that volcanoes also put out a fair amount of particulate that blocks solar radiation from penetrating the atmosphere (cause "cooling") along with the CO2. Airplanes unfortunately do not have this going for them.
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby beardmcdoug » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:03 pm

Hah MB, just sharing information

Good point outtie
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby RedLeader » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:24 pm

“In an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal Monday, Steven F. Hayward, senior resident scholar at the Institute of Governmental Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, declared that climate change as a pre-eminent policy issue has officially "run its course." And if you're looking for someone to blame, he suggests, don't look at President Trump, look instead at left-wing activists who've let their social justice and "green utopian vision" sabotage viable solutions.

"All that remains" of the climate change political movement, writes Hayward, "is boilerplate rhetoric from the political class, frivolous nuisance lawsuits, and bureaucratic mandates on behalf of special-interest renewable-energy rent seekers." Most national governments, he explains, have been steadily "backing away from forced-marched decarbonization." The arc of climate change as a policy priority, he declares, can officially be dated from 1988 to 2018.“
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Re: Climate chg/global warming/climate disruption/carbon...

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:35 pm

RedLeader wrote:“In an op-ed for The Wall Street Journal Monday, Steven F. Hayward, senior resident scholar at the Institute of Governmental Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, declared that climate change as a pre-eminent policy issue has officially "run its course." And if you're looking for someone to blame, he suggests, don't look at President Trump, look instead at left-wing activists who've let their social justice and "green utopian vision" sabotage viable solutions.

"All that remains" of the climate change political movement, writes Hayward, "is boilerplate rhetoric from the political class, frivolous nuisance lawsuits, and bureaucratic mandates on behalf of special-interest renewable-energy rent seekers." Most national governments, he explains, have been steadily "backing away from forced-marched decarbonization." The arc of climate change as a policy priority, he declares, can officially be dated from 1988 to 2018.“



Yawn. There is plenty of physical evidence. That you and your like can't comprehend it will surely be comforting to you.
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