Bernie Sanders

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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:28 pm

Buc2 wrote:Problem is, 15 million jobs @ $15/hour works out to a $468 billion annual payroll based on a 40 hour work week. That's 36 aircraft carriers. I think we only have 9 that are operational at the moment.


well we spend about 5x that on keeping Boomers on life support... at some point it REALLY begs the question....



YA HAD YOUR GLORY DAYS BOOMER - YOU HAD WOODSTOCK - YOU HAD YOUR LSD - YOU HAD YOUR FREE PASS AT NOT RAISING YOUR CHILDREN - YOU DID COKE OFF A HOOKER'S ASS IN YOUR CORNER OFFICE WHILE YOUR COMPANY TANKED THE MARKET AND YOU TOOK A FAT MILLION DOLLAR PAYOFF TO DO SO

YOU SOLD THE COUNTRY TO FOREIGN INTERESTS AND GAVE EVERYTHING AWAY THAT THE GREATEST GENERATION DIED FOR

YOU WERE HANDED THE PINNACLE OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION AND YOU FUCKED IT ALL UP - NOW THE BELL TOLLS YOU DUSTY OLD SHITS

:birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered:
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:29 pm

Well, that devolved in to nonsense immediately.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:36 pm

The Outsider wrote:Well, that devolved in to nonsense immediately.


Right?

Guaranteed jobs at 15 per hour is insane.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:50 pm

The Outsider wrote:Well, that devolved in to nonsense immediately.


hey we could probably save even more by getting rid of the apathetic nihilistic Gen-Xers too...

YOU STOOD BY MEEKLY, TOO AFRAID TO CHALLENGE "THE MAN", TOO AFRAID TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OF SIGNIFICANCE, SO INSTEAD YOU TOOK YOUR ANGST AND BOXED IT UP INTO SOME PATHETIC GENDER BENDING MAKE-UP ROUTINES WITH YOUR FAUX TOUGH GUY STUDDED LEATHER JACKETS WITH MATCHING ASSLESS CHAPS, SHOOTING UP, GIVING EACHOTHER AIDS, PUKING ON EACHOTHER, TATTOOING YOUR BALLS, GRAFITIING EVERY INCH OF LIFE, MEWLING ON ABOUT ALL THE MEANINGLESS **** IN YOUR LIFE, MEWLING ON ABOUT HOW NOTHING MATTERS, MEWLING ON FOR ALL ETERNITY WHILE AMERICA, THE GREATEST CIVILIZATION THAT HAS EVEN EXISTED CRUMBLED RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACES :birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered:
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:52 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
The Outsider wrote:Well, that devolved in to nonsense immediately.


hey we could probably save even more by getting rid of the apathetic nihilistic Gen-Xers too...

YOU STOOD BY MEEKLY, TOO AFRAID TO CHALLENGE "THE MAN", TOO AFRAID TO ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OF SIGNIFICANCE, SO INSTEAD YOU TOOK YOUR ANGST AND BOXED IT UP INTO SOME PATHETIC GENDER BENDING MAKE-UP ROUTINES WITH YOUR FAUX TOUGH GUY STUDDED LEATHER JACKETS WITH MATCHING ASSLESS CHAPS, SHOOTING UP, GIVING EACHOTHER AIDS, PUKING ON EACHOTHER, TATTOOING YOUR BALLS, GRAFITIING EVERY INCH OF LIFE, MEWLING ON ABOUT ALL THE MEANINGLESS **** IN YOUR LIFE, MEWLING ON ABOUT HOW NOTHING MATTERS, MEWLING ON FOR ALL ETERNITY WHILE AMERICA, THE GREATEST CIVILIZATION THAT HAS EVEN EXISTED CRUMBLED RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACES :birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered: :birdiedoublered:


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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:55 pm

KILL EVERYBODY!
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:57 pm

I'm actually a millenial I guess. Never felt like it, but there it is. But yeah Buc2 is on the right track, if there are no people we've literally solved world hunger, employment, poverty, healthcare, etc.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:59 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
The Outsider wrote:Well, that devolved in to nonsense immediately.


Right?

Guaranteed jobs at 15 per hour is insane.



I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:00 pm

**** it. Just print more money.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:04 pm

The Outsider wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Right?

Guaranteed jobs at 15 per hour is insane.



I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.

Well, the deal is that anybody who wants a job and doesn't have one can get one because we're doing a bunch of infrastructure projects all over the country. Businesses would still go through the process of biding to do the jobs, they'd just have to pay at least $15 an hour to everyone on their payroll.

But it's more fun to proclaim that Bernie is going to put all 350 million Americans on the federal payroll and make them do work.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:05 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.

Well, the deal is that anybody who wants a job and doesn't have one can get one because we're doing a bunch of infrastructure projects all over the country. Businesses would still go through the process of biding to do the jobs, they'd just have to pay at least $15 an hour to everyone on their payroll.

But it's more fun to proclaim that Bernie is going to put all 350 million Americans on the federal payroll and make them do work.


even the babies!? a true communist
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:06 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Well, the deal is that anybody who wants a job and doesn't have one can get one because we're doing a bunch of infrastructure projects all over the country. Businesses would still go through the process of biding to do the jobs, they'd just have to pay at least $15 an hour to everyone on their payroll.

But it's more fun to proclaim that Bernie is going to put all 350 million Americans on the federal payroll and make them do work.


even the babies!? a true communist

Yes. Conservatives too.


Oh, you meant ACTUAL babies!.....yeah, them too.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:09 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
even the babies!? a true communist

Yes. Conservatives too.


Oh, you meant ACTUAL babies!.....yeah, them too.


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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:09 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.

Well, the deal is that anybody who wants a job and doesn't have one can get one because we're doing a bunch of infrastructure projects all over the country. Businesses would still go through the process of biding to do the jobs, they'd just have to pay at least $15 an hour to everyone on their payroll.

But it's more fun to proclaim that Bernie is going to put all 350 million Americans on the federal payroll and make them do work.



Can you please show me where these jobs are going to private sector jobs?

The article specifically states they are employed by the federal government.




-----


or are you talking about infrastructure investment in general? Because that's not what this proposal has stated.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:12 pm

The Outsider wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Right?

Guaranteed jobs at 15 per hour is insane.



I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.




Every single part of the federal government is over-funded right now. Waste is rampant...from the military to education to entitlements to everything. We laugh off when it is discovered the pentagon is losing billions upon billions of dollars -- literally losing them...they have no idea where it went. We laugh when we pay $500K to study mating habits of bees. We laugh when transportation projects go 80% over budget and 100% over time. Each one individually isn't a big deal. Put them together and you get a flipping mess


Giving the federal government more control over the labor economy is absolutely absurd.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:16 pm

roads.




roads made out of actual people.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:31 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Well, the deal is that anybody who wants a job and doesn't have one can get one because we're doing a bunch of infrastructure projects all over the country. Businesses would still go through the process of biding to do the jobs, they'd just have to pay at least $15 an hour to everyone on their payroll.

But it's more fun to proclaim that Bernie is going to put all 350 million Americans on the federal payroll and make them do work.



Can you please show me where these jobs are going to private sector jobs?

The article specifically states they are employed by the federal government.




-----


or are you talking about infrastructure investment in general? Because that's not what this proposal has stated.

My bad. the projects would be run by the state and local governments that propose them. The employees themselves would be paid by the Fed.

Local control. You should like that part.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:39 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

I feel like there's probably some sort of nuance to the bill that didn't make it in to the article. That said, at face value it sounds like a pipe dream if we want to continue to overfund other parts of our federal government to the point of idiocy.




Every single part of the federal government is over-funded right now. Waste is rampant...from the military to education to entitlements to everything. We laugh off when it is discovered the pentagon is losing billions upon billions of dollars -- literally losing them...they have no idea where it went. We laugh when we pay $500K to study mating habits of bees. We laugh when transportation projects go 80% over budget and 100% over time. Each one individually isn't a big deal. Put them together and you get a flipping mess


Giving the federal government more control over the labor economy is absolutely absurd.


$500k to study the mating habits of bees is probably money well spent considering how important bees are to us being able to eat. But pedantry aside, what would you rather do; turn all of these things over to the states? Or have them be privately funded? Okay, in the first scenario New York, California, other big economy states will have top notch infrastructure while the majority of the country, aka the bible belt and fly-over states, will be literal **** holes because they're poor as ****. In the second scenario we enter a second gilded age, wealth disparity gets even worse, and we're in a pre-cyberpunk corporate dystopia.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:39 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:roads.




roads made out of actual people.



Soylent roads.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:48 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Every single part of the federal government is over-funded right now. Waste is rampant...from the military to education to entitlements to everything. We laugh off when it is discovered the pentagon is losing billions upon billions of dollars -- literally losing them...they have no idea where it went. We laugh when we pay $500K to study mating habits of bees. We laugh when transportation projects go 80% over budget and 100% over time. Each one individually isn't a big deal. Put them together and you get a flipping mess


Giving the federal government more control over the labor economy is absolutely absurd.


$500k to study the mating habits of bees is probably money well spent considering how important bees are to us being able to eat. But pedantry aside, what would you rather do; turn all of these things over to the states? Or have them be privately funded? Okay, in the first scenario New York, California, other big economy states will have top notch infrastructure while the majority of the country, aka the bible belt and fly-over states, will be literal **** holes because they're poor as ****. In the second scenario we enter a second gilded age, wealth disparity gets even worse, and we're in a pre-cyberpunk corporate dystopia.



I'm fairly happy with the current funding scheme for infrastructure. The vast majority comes from state and local government. The federal gov't plays a small role. I'd keep it like that for the most part.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:03 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Every single part of the federal government is over-funded right now. Waste is rampant...from the military to education to entitlements to everything. We laugh off when it is discovered the pentagon is losing billions upon billions of dollars -- literally losing them...they have no idea where it went. We laugh when we pay $500K to study mating habits of bees. We laugh when transportation projects go 80% over budget and 100% over time. Each one individually isn't a big deal. Put them together and you get a flipping mess


Giving the federal government more control over the labor economy is absolutely absurd.


$500k to study the mating habits of bees is probably money well spent considering how important bees are to us being able to eat. But pedantry aside, what would you rather do; turn all of these things over to the states? Or have them be privately funded? Okay, in the first scenario New York, California, other big economy states will have top notch infrastructure while the majority of the country, aka the bible belt and fly-over states, will be literal **** holes because they're poor as ****. In the second scenario we enter a second gilded age, wealth disparity gets even worse, and we're in a pre-cyberpunk corporate dystopia.


why don't we do both - hand over our democracy to a corporate plutocracy run by lizard people, federalize everything, turn the world into a global police state where only the uber rich live in a beautiful earth-like orbiting satellite - while the rest of us plug into VR from our living rooms and fart in eachother's faces via smell-enhanced real-life simulators
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 pm

#greenlivesmatter
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:17 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
The Outsider wrote:
$500k to study the mating habits of bees is probably money well spent considering how important bees are to us being able to eat. But pedantry aside, what would you rather do; turn all of these things over to the states? Or have them be privately funded? Okay, in the first scenario New York, California, other big economy states will have top notch infrastructure while the majority of the country, aka the bible belt and fly-over states, will be literal **** holes because they're poor as ****. In the second scenario we enter a second gilded age, wealth disparity gets even worse, and we're in a pre-cyberpunk corporate dystopia.


why don't we do both - hand over our democracy to a corporate plutocracy run by lizard people, federalize everything, turn the world into a global police state where only the uber rich live in a beautiful earth-like orbiting satellite - while the rest of us plug into VR from our living rooms and fart in eachother's faces via smell-enhanced real-life simulators


Oh you had better believe that full immersion VR is the technological breakthrough that causes me to buy life support equipment and check the **** out.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:25 am

The Works Progress Administration during the Great Depression at its absolute peak employed 3.3 million people. They built libraries, courthouses, airports, and paved the sidewalks at my college that still bear the WPA stamp in the concrete.

If Bernie's proposal matched that 3.3 million people and paid them all $15 an hour, it would have an annual payroll of $102 Billion or about the cost of Obama's 2010 troop surge in Afghanistan.

This proposal is not impossible.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby The Outsider » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:51 am

Not only will it divert wasted funds but we can tax it, too!
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby deltbucs » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:24 am

So here's my thinking. We kind of have 4 options as I see it for unemployed poor people.
1. Let them starve and die.
2. They end up in jail/prison.
3. Give them government assistance.
4. They get a job.
I don't think it's a terrible idea for the government to give them a job and make them work for it instead of the government just paying for them to live in jail/prison or give them welfare. I could see it argued that paying them $15 an hour is too much, but if you don't pay them a living wage, they're back on government assistance.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:51 am

deltbucs wrote:So here's my thinking. We kind of have 4 options as I see it for unemployed poor people.
1. Let them starve and die.
2. They end up in jail/prison.
3. Give them government assistance.
4. They get a job.
I don't think it's a terrible idea for the government to give them a job and make them work for it instead of the government just paying for them to live in jail/prison or give them welfare. I could see it argued that paying them $15 an hour is too much, but if you don't pay them a living wage, they're back on government assistance.


I agree with that and think most people would as well. I think an infrastructure plan is something that has bipartisan support both here and in society as most see the benefits that would come from the required federal spending. After all, what is the alternative?

Infrastructure is something both Bernie and Trump ran on, so while their plans would have differences I think the similarities far outweigh them since both plans would create employment opportunities where a portion of that investment gets put back into the economy. Let's not forget that US unemployment is at a 17 year low right now as well. So there are jobs out there to some degree.

I have some apprehension about this 'guaranteed job' part and how that will be defined in this plan. But we're too high level right now to grumble about that.

The whole minimum wage/living wage issue is another topic altogether that should imo be handled at the state or even more local level since a living wage in NYC is far different that a living wage in Podunk, Arkansas.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Buc2 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:44 pm

deltbucs wrote:So here's my thinking. We kind of have 4 options as I see it for unemployed poor people.
1. Let them starve and die.
2. They end up in jail/prison.
3. Give them government assistance.
4. They get a job.
I don't think it's a terrible idea for the government to give them a job and make them work for it instead of the government just paying for them to live in jail/prison or give them welfare. I could see it argued that paying them $15 an hour is too much, but if you don't pay them a living wage, they're back on government assistance.

So, mandatory work, right? In other words, if you're unemployed, instead of welfare, you either take this job (if you're physically able of course), or you can starve and die.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:08 pm

Buc2 wrote:So, mandatory work, right? In other words, if you're unemployed, instead of welfare, you either take this job (if you're physically able of course), or you can starve and die.



Could you imagine the abuse of that system???? -- people having mysterious deficiencies that don't allow them to work? It's already a well documented abuse in our safety net programs. Anyone who has ever worked in a manufacturing environments knows the institutional knowledge about doctors who are plug and play for disability and workman's comp.


Then of course, exceptions would have to be made for people who have kids...who are taking care of parents...etc etc.

I take that back...I'm sure free daycare isn't far off next for the progressives so maybe that job obstacle will be eliminated.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Postby Buc2 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:10 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Buc2 wrote:So, mandatory work, right? In other words, if you're unemployed, instead of welfare, you either take this job (if you're physically able of course), or you can starve and die.



Could you imagine the abuse of that system???? -- people having mysterious deficiencies that don't allow them to work? It's already a well documented abuse in our safety net programs. Anyone who has ever worked in a manufacturing environments knows the institutional knowledge about doctors who are plug and play for disability and workman's comp.


Then of course, exceptions would have to be made for people who have kids...who are taking care of parents...etc etc.

I take that back...I'm sure free daycare isn't far off next for the progressives so maybe that job obstacle will be eliminated.

And free transportation to and from work.
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