The Exhausted Majority

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The Exhausted Majority

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:11 am

Good article and sources about an article centered the "Exhausted Majority"

--basically the sensible people in the middle surrounded by the incredibly loud Regressive Leftists and Ultra-Right idiots

This write-up focuses on the idea of Free Speech, but the survey took attitudes on many different topics and apparently the findings of "similarity" were fairly reliable



http://reason.com/blog/2018/10/11/polit ... s-vote-maj


the survey was done by a group called "more in common"...here is their homepage https://www.moreincommon.com/

Here is another article about their survey findings: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ss/572581/



(time to break out some "Can We all Agree" posts again maybe)
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Rocker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:23 am

Read this yesterday. Excellent.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:26 am

Good article, read it yesterday and shared that Atlantic article in the politics thread.

An interesting quote was how over 80% of Americans claim to oppose political correctness and the numbers were pretty even across demographic groups. Yet the only group that strongly supported political correctness were, rich, white progressive activists.

But those articles are full of good nuggets and counter MUCH of what we see on cable news and on social media.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:30 am

My bad if this was posted yesterday, I wasn't on much cause of work.

But at least we know have a thread marker for this type of thing :)
Last edited by Zarniwoop on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:35 am

DreadNaught wrote:
But those articles are full of good nuggets and counter MUCH of what we see on cable news and on social media.


I think there is a very high correlation between someone's bitterness/anger and how much they pay attention to cable news / media

There is probably a high degree of correlation between anger/bitterness and how much we pay attention and listen directly to the idiots in DC. I mean if you area fan of and take what people like Trump or Booker or Feinstein say at face value, you think we live in a world of hate.

Whereas I see very little of that kind of hate on a day to day basis...I see quite the opposite in fact.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:45 am

Regressive?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:57 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
But those articles are full of good nuggets and counter MUCH of what we see on cable news and on social media.


I think there is a very high correlation between someone's bitterness/anger and how much they pay attention to cable news / media

There is probably a high degree of correlation between anger/bitterness and how much we pay attention and listen directly to the idiots in DC. I mean if you area fan of and take what people like Trump or Booker or Feinstein say at face value, you think we live in a world of hate.

Whereas I see very little of that kind of hate on a day to day basis...I see quite the opposite in fact.


I agree.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:40 am

mdb1958 wrote:Regressive?



re·gres·sive
rəˈɡresiv/
adjective
adjective: regressive

1.
becoming less advanced; returning to a former or less developed state.
"the regressive, infantile wish for the perfect parent of early childhood"
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:38 am

Quick show of hands. Who here considers themselves a part of thi exhausted majority?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:16 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Regressive?



re·gres·sive
rəˈɡresiv/
adjective
adjective: regressive

1.
becoming less advanced; returning to a former or less developed state.
"the regressive, infantile wish for the perfect parent of early childhood"


So MB is less advanced? He wants mothers milk for five years?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:50 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

re·gres·sive
rəˈɡresiv/
adjective
adjective: regressive

1.
becoming less advanced; returning to a former or less developed state.
"the regressive, infantile wish for the perfect parent of early childhood"


So MB is less advanced? He wants mothers milk for five years?


Are you making an argument that Progressivism should be called Regressivism, mdb?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:56 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Quick show of hands. Who here considers themselves a part of thi exhausted majority?

What is the exhausted majority?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:57 am

Buc2 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Quick show of hands. Who here considers themselves a part of thi exhausted majority?

What is the exhausted majority?

The people pointed out in the article.

The "sensible" people.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:02 am

Not sure if I do or not. I have become quite irritated at the current level of PC in our society. It has gotten to the point a person can't say anything without the PC Police coming down on them. Does that make me part of that group? You tell me.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:40 am

Buc2 wrote:Not sure if I do or not. I have become quite irritated at the current level of PC in our society. It has gotten to the point a person can't say anything without the PC Police coming down on them. Does that make me part of that group? You tell me.


According to the article 80% of people are irritated with the level of PC in our society. For those that don't follow polling it's really difficult to get an 80% agreement on most any issue. If you can get 60% it usually qualifies as enough of a majority opinion to change/make laws which is why most Amendments require 60% and that used to be the threshold in the Senate for judicial nominations before our boy Harry Reid decided it would be smart for a simple majority.

In my view the fact 80% are against something speaks volumes, and I'd say that was part of why Trump was able to beat out the GOP establishment and Hillary/DNC. Also why we're seeing more of populist movement on the Left in the aftermath. People that support PC are mostly the wealthy donor class (aka the establishment of both parties).

It's almost as if the wealthy and powerful people want to control people via compelled speech (which is really what political correctness is) which keeping them angry with one another in some type of zero-sum narrative.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:46 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Not sure if I do or not. I have become quite irritated at the current level of PC in our society. It has gotten to the point a person can't say anything without the PC Police coming down on them. Does that make me part of that group? You tell me.


According to the article 80% of people are irritated with the level of PC in our society. For those that don't follow polling it's really difficult to get an 80% agreement on most any issue. If you can get 60% it usually qualifies as enough of a majority opinion to change/make laws which is why most Amendments require 60% and that used to be the threshold in the Senate for judicial nominations before our boy Harry Reid decided it would be smart for a simple majority.

In my view the fact 80% are against something speaks volumes, and I'd say that was part of why Trump was able to beat out the GOP establishment and Hillary/DNC. Also why we're seeing more of populist movement on the Left in the aftermath. People that support PC are mostly the wealthy donor class (aka the establishment of both parties).

It's almost as if the wealthy and powerful people want to control people via compelled speech (which is really what political correctness is) which keeping them angry with one another in some type of zero-sum narrative.

Give that man a cookie.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:00 am

Warm chocolate chip, slightly undercooked so they stay soft.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:07 am

DreadNaught wrote:Warm chocolate chip, slightly undercooked so they stay soft.

The glass of milk to go with your cookie is that the pushback against "PC Culture" is just another brand of PC culture.

Case in point, the ridiculous criticism of the movie First Man because it supposedly doesn't portray the planting of the US Flag on the moon.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:15 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Warm chocolate chip, slightly undercooked so they stay soft.

The glass of milk to go with your cookie is that the pushback against "PC Culture" is just another brand of PC culture.

Case in point, the ridiculous criticism of the movie First Man because it supposedly doesn't portray the planting of the US Flag on the moon.

It's not the exemption that was originally criticized, although it was a crucial point in that mission. Gosling started the criticism when he stated that the flag scene was being left out because it wasn't an American acheivement, it was a human acheivement. He also said Armstrong didn't view himself as an American hero, which may be true, but I don't think in the context Gosling is attributing it to.

The Moon landing was American as it gets considering the Cold War space race.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:18 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The glass of milk to go with your cookie is that the pushback against "PC Culture" is just another brand of PC culture.

Case in point, the ridiculous criticism of the movie First Man because it supposedly doesn't portray the planting of the US Flag on the moon.

It's not the exemption that was originally criticized, although it was a crucial point in that mission. Gosling started the criticism when he stated that the flag scene was being left out because it wasn't an American acheivement, it was a human acheivement. He also said Armstrong didn't view himself as an American hero, which may be true, but I don't think in the context Gosling is attributing it to.

The Moon landing was American as it gets considering the Cold War space race.

Like I said. To some, the movie is politically incorrect.

Can you imagine the fervor if Flags of our Fathers was released this year?
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:23 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Warm chocolate chip, slightly undercooked so they stay soft.

The glass of milk to go with your cookie is that the pushback against "PC Culture" is just another brand of PC culture.

Case in point, the ridiculous criticism of the movie First Man because it supposedly doesn't portray the planting of the US Flag on the moon.


As USC stated it was the rationale used to explain why that scene reportedly wouldn't be used. It's as if the film was attempting to re-write history since landing on the moon was most certainly an American achievement.

But I'm not sure what that had to do w/ political correctness. I don't view celebrating history and an American achievement as not being politically correct. That is akin to saying that celebrating the 4th of July is not politically correct.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:56 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The glass of milk to go with your cookie is that the pushback against "PC Culture" is just another brand of PC culture.

Case in point, the ridiculous criticism of the movie First Man because it supposedly doesn't portray the planting of the US Flag on the moon.


As USC stated it was the rationale used to explain why that scene reportedly wouldn't be used. It's as if the film was attempting to re-write history since landing on the moon was most certainly an American achievement.

But I'm not sure what that had to do w/ political correctness. I don't view celebrating history and an American achievement as not being politically correct. That is akin to saying that celebrating the 4th of July is not politically correct.

You're missing the point.

Political Correctness is sanitized speech. Which means speech that is supposed to be acceptable for society. This is not, as some would suggest, something that is exclusively done by the left. The left has some of the most egregious examples which I'm sure some around here would love to catalogue for everyone, but there is little difference in the methodology.

The right LOVES to pick on pop culture this way and has for decades. Rock n' Roll is the Devil, interracial couples in film and television, profanity and nudity in film and on television, Pornography, "Cultural rot", the Simpsons is obscene, Married:With Children misrepresents American values, Beavis and Butt-head are starting fires and killing children, Video games cause gun violence, and now how patriotic a movie is. The right has been trying to make pop culture politically correct for as long as there has been pop culture.

Then we have prayer in school, the pledge of allegiance, Colin Kaepernick, The Dixie Chicks, Gay marriage, and a whole host of other things the right finds to be offensive, blasphemous, hateful, or indecent.

This is culture war 101. The fight to decide what is and what is not acceptable speech and conduct. It's an effort to dictate to the masses standards that suit them and it is most certainly not a phenomenon that is exclusive to leftist ideology.

If you oppose Political Correctness, you have to oppose it in all its forms or you're just being a partisan imposing your standards on everyone else.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:10 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
As USC stated it was the rationale used to explain why that scene reportedly wouldn't be used. It's as if the film was attempting to re-write history since landing on the moon was most certainly an American achievement.

But I'm not sure what that had to do w/ political correctness. I don't view celebrating history and an American achievement as not being politically correct. That is akin to saying that celebrating the 4th of July is not politically correct.

You're missing the point.

Political Correctness is sanitized speech. Which means speech that is supposed to be acceptable for society. This is not, as some would suggest, something that is exclusively done by the left. The left has some of the most egregious examples which I'm sure some around here would love to catalogue for everyone, but there is little difference in the methodology.

The right LOVES to pick on pop culture this way and has for decades. Rock n' Roll is the Devil, interracial couples in film and television, profanity and nudity in film and on television, Pornography, "Cultural rot", the Simpsons is obscene, Married:With Children misrepresents American values, Beavis and Butt-head are starting fires and killing children, Video games cause gun violence, and now how patriotic a movie is. The right has been trying to make pop culture politically correct for as long as there has been pop culture.

Then we have prayer in school, the pledge of allegiance, Colin Kaepernick, The Dixie Chicks, Gay marriage, and a whole host of other things the right finds to be offensive, blasphemous, hateful, or indecent.

This is culture war 101. The fight to decide what is and what is not acceptable speech and conduct. It's an effort to dictate to the masses standards that suit them and it is most certainly not a phenomenon that is exclusive to leftist ideology.

If you oppose Political Correctness, you have to oppose it in all its forms or you're just being a partisan imposing your standards on everyone else.


That read like a straw man followed by a whataboutism.

I agree political correctness is not exclusive to the left. I'm not sure who these "some people" are, but I'm sure they exist. According to the article cited by Zarni there is large amount of support of PC from rich progressives, but I'm sure there is more support than average for PC coming from rich conservatives as well.

To use your examples I believe it was Tipper Gore who led the assault on the music and video game industry for being too graphic and she certainly wasn't on the 'right'.

I've never been fan of censoring any other those things other than my support for the pledge of allegiance in schools. But even that I can understand the opposition. But that aside I've never been on the "right" on any of the those items you cited (many occurred before I was born or of adult age).

Where I disagree is that advocating for certain values = pushing political correctness. It's a case by case basis. Take something basic like the belief in the importance of the nuclear family and how it benefits childhood development. I don't see how that would be a 'politically correct' position to advocate for.

You cited this 'First Man' movie and the issue of how patriotic the movie is or isn't. To me it's about getting the story correct, or atleast the explanation offered as to why the scene would be omitted. To which I believe the comment was 'we wanted to show it as an human achievement vice an American one'. If anything that seems like pop culture putting a PC spin on the story as I don't view the truth as ever being politically incorrect, which the crux of the issue with political correctness in the first place. It can disguise and/or omit truth.

I just don't I share the broad definition of political correctness as you seem to.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:50 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You're missing the point.

Political Correctness is sanitized speech. Which means speech that is supposed to be acceptable for society. This is not, as some would suggest, something that is exclusively done by the left. The left has some of the most egregious examples which I'm sure some around here would love to catalogue for everyone, but there is little difference in the methodology.

The right LOVES to pick on pop culture this way and has for decades. Rock n' Roll is the Devil, interracial couples in film and television, profanity and nudity in film and on television, Pornography, "Cultural rot", the Simpsons is obscene, Married:With Children misrepresents American values, Beavis and Butt-head are starting fires and killing children, Video games cause gun violence, and now how patriotic a movie is. The right has been trying to make pop culture politically correct for as long as there has been pop culture.

Then we have prayer in school, the pledge of allegiance, Colin Kaepernick, The Dixie Chicks, Gay marriage, and a whole host of other things the right finds to be offensive, blasphemous, hateful, or indecent.

This is culture war 101. The fight to decide what is and what is not acceptable speech and conduct. It's an effort to dictate to the masses standards that suit them and it is most certainly not a phenomenon that is exclusive to leftist ideology.

If you oppose Political Correctness, you have to oppose it in all its forms or you're just being a partisan imposing your standards on everyone else.


That read like a straw man followed by a whataboutism.

I agree political correctness is not exclusive to the left. I'm not sure who these "some people" are, but I'm sure they exist. According to the article cited by Zarni there is large amount of support of PC from rich progressives, but I'm sure there is more support than average for PC coming from rich conservatives as well.

To use your examples I believe it was Tipper Gore who led the assault on the music and video game industry for being too graphic and she certainly wasn't on the 'right'.

I've never been fan of censoring any other those things other than my support for the pledge of allegiance in schools. But even that I can understand the opposition. But that aside I've never been on the "right" on any of the those items you cited (many occurred before I was born or of adult age).

Where I disagree is that advocating for certain values = pushing political correctness. It's a case by case basis. Take something basic like the belief in the importance of the nuclear family and how it benefits childhood development. I don't see how that would be a 'politically correct' position to advocate for.

You cited this 'First Man' movie and the issue of how patriotic the movie is or isn't. To me it's about getting the story correct, or atleast the explanation offered as to why the scene would be omitted. To which I believe the comment was 'we wanted to show it as an human achievement vice an American one'. If anything that seems like pop culture putting a PC spin on the story as I don't view the truth as ever being politically incorrect, which the crux of the issue with political correctness in the first place. It can disguise and/or omit truth.

I just don't I share the broad definition of political correctness as you seem to.

This is why we can't have nice things.

First, strawmen are made up, I cited examples.

Second, Tipper gore co-founded her little censorship group with James Baker's wife. Are you ready to tell me Republicans opposed the whole thing? Didn't think so.

Finally, you are making the partisain's argument here. I can assure you that the people that would like you to drop gender pronouns are quite convinced that they too, are fighting for their values. The fact that you agree or disagree with those values is irrelevant. But nevertheless, here you sit alluding to the suggestion that you are simply arguing for freedom and decency and that it's the insidious plot of the leftists to engage in political correctness. Guess what, hero? The folks over there on the left think they are arguing for freedom and decency too.

So. You are either a partisan, or you simply don't understand the concept and are leaning on a "PC is what liberals do" position.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:20 pm

JFC you're so defensive it makes discussion futile.

I never stated "PC is just what the left does", nor do I believe that. I already agreed it comes from both sides. For the THIRD time let me reiterate that it's my opinion PC is mostly supported by the rich donor class or 'establishment' of BOTH major parties. Whereas most others (regardless of ideology) oppose it or atleast find it irritating.

You're the one that took something as a partisan shot and made the straw man "This is not, as some would suggest, something that is exclusively done by the left" then proceeded to explain how the "right" was bad. Perhaps I missed where in this thread someone was blaming PC solely on the left. If mdb or Brazen's comments triggered you perhaps you need a break from this sub-forum.

I'm fine discussing political correctness, you seem hellbent on making it a left/right issue. Perhaps it's you that missed the point of the article or maybe you just can't help yourself.

If you're trying to make an argument that every tenet is some form of politcal correctness we'll just agree to disagree. That POV is a sliding into the postmodern way of thinking imo and thus not the way I view things.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:If you're trying to make an argument that every tenet is some form of politcal correctness we'll just agree to disagree.

No, dickhead. Compelling someone to abide by someone else's tenets is. That's the point.

Nobody else around here seems to be struggling with the concept. Just you.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:05 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:If you're trying to make an argument that every tenet is some form of politcal correctness we'll just agree to disagree.

No, dickhead. Compelling someone to abide by someone else's tenets is. That's the point.

Nobody else around here seems to be struggling with the concept. Just you.


So now I'm a dickhead? :roll: :twisted: You really are delicate flower sometimes.

If I advocate against rape and murder am I pushing political correctness b/c other people might feel it should be allowed and thus violates their tenets?

Here is a easier one, what about monogamy as it applies to marriage? Is that just political correctness in your view since polygamists oppose it?

Compelling someone (or a group) to abide by someone else's (or groups) tenets is how societies have been formed since the beginning of mankind. I disagree that all of that falls under the definition of political correctness. Like I stated, it's too broad of a definition for a trend that is fairly recent historically speaking.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:15 pm

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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:No, dickhead. Compelling someone to abide by someone else's tenets is. That's the point.

Nobody else around here seems to be struggling with the concept. Just you.


So now I'm a dickhead? :roll: :twisted: You really are delicate flower sometimes.

If I advocate against rape and murder am I pushing political correctness b/c other people might feel it should be allowed and thus violates their tenets?

Here is a easier one, what about monogamy as it applies to marriage? Is that just political correctness in your view since polygamists oppose it?

Compelling someone (or a group) to abide by someone else's (or groups) tenets is how societies have been formed since the beginning of mankind. I disagree that all of that falls under the definition of political correctness. Like I stated, it's too broad of a definition for a trend that is fairly recent historically speaking.

eh, you're starting to catch on. I should call you names more often.

It's not just safe spaces and gender pronouns. When people are telling people how they can and can not speak or otherwise express themselves, it's political correctness. That has been my point all along. You guys have to understand that its far more than the bastardized definition bandied about by Fox News contributors and politicians.
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Re: The Exhausted Majority

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:32 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
So now I'm a dickhead? :roll: :twisted: You really are delicate flower sometimes.

If I advocate against rape and murder am I pushing political correctness b/c other people might feel it should be allowed and thus violates their tenets?

Here is a easier one, what about monogamy as it applies to marriage? Is that just political correctness in your view since polygamists oppose it?

Compelling someone (or a group) to abide by someone else's (or groups) tenets is how societies have been formed since the beginning of mankind. I disagree that all of that falls under the definition of political correctness. Like I stated, it's too broad of a definition for a trend that is fairly recent historically speaking.

eh, you're starting to catch on. I should call you names more often.

It's not just safe spaces and gender pronouns. When people are telling people how they can and can not speak or otherwise express themselves, it's political correctness. That has been my point all along. You guys have to understand that its far more than the bastardized definition bandied about by Fox News contributors and politicians.


You're missing a KEY differentiation. I'm fine with people speaking or expressing themselves as they feel provided it's not illegal or otherwise impose on others. But when those people (lets use transgender activists as an example you used) want to compel ME how to speak in general terms regarding human biology then they are the ones compelling speech.

Again, your broad definition of PC is incorrect imo.

Political correctness is somewhat of a recent concept. Meanwhile groups have been making other groups assimilate to their tenets for centuries, so I disagree it's always just been political correctness.

Imo there is a differentiation between customs, laws, and politcal correctness.
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