Salem MeToo Trials

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Salem MeToo Trials

Postby PanteraCanes » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:06 am

So I heard about this story last night. Apparently 5 girls in highschool set out to ruin a male classmates life by accusing him of harassment and sexual assault. From the sound of it he got fired from his job, bullied in school, kicked out of school, put on probation, and sent to juvenile detention. Eventually the girl's scheme came out but they were never punished by the school or legal system. So the parents are suing the families of the girls, the school system, and the local legal system / prosecutors.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/08/school-under-fire-for-turning-blind-eye-to-female-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6244083/High-school-clique-mean-girls-sued-targeting-boy-false-allegations-sexual-assault.html
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby HamBone » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:10 am

PanteraCanes wrote:So I heard about this story last night. Apparently 5 girls in highschool set out to ruin a male classmates life by accusing him of harassment and sexual assault. From the sound of it he got fired from his job, bullied in school, kicked out of school, put on probation, and sent to juvenile detention. Eventually the girl's scheme came out but they were never punished by the school or legal system. So the parents are suing the families of the girls, the school system, and the local legal system / prosecutors.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/08/school-under-fire-for-turning-blind-eye-to-female-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6244083/High-school-clique-mean-girls-sued-targeting-boy-false-allegations-sexual-assault.html


Wow...that is insane.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:10 am

Pretty messed up.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby PanteraCanes » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:11 am

There is of course the earlier Duke Lacrosse case of a similar vein.

Another more recent case I was unaware of is Chris Hardwick. I had no idea about all of these until someone on a radio show mentioned it in the past couple of weeks.
https://www.nealdavislaw.com/blog/sex-crimes/false-allegations-hysteria-hardwick
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby NYBF » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 am

"On April 10, T.F. was removed from class at Seneca Valley High School and placed in leg and wrist shackles by the Jackson Township Police with the assistance of Juvenile Probation Officer Michael Trego," the lawsuit said.


Damn. Name all those bitches. Ruin their families.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:31 am

And this is why due process is required for any allegation. The culture surrounding #BelieveAllWomen is precisely what led to this. And when Trump gets destroyed for saying he worries for young boys, you can't say he is wrong when reading the sobering details of this allegation.

What's a damn shame is that for most people who are "woke" to #MeToo, this means nothing.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:40 am

Sexual Assault is a CRIME, thus it should be handled by Law Enforcement. Not kangaroo courts and tribunals within academic institutions.

I'm glad DeVos is working on making this correction.

Anytime some ideologue spouts "Believe ALL Women" they should be dismissed for the radical they are. No gender holds a patent on truth, women are human last I checked and thus they are capable of lies. Victims (even alleged ones) should be listened to, but this idea that a specific gender reporting a specific crime makes them incapable of dishonesty is the stuff of brainwashing.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:55 am

That didn't take long.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby NYBF » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:58 am

On the plus side, it's one more thread I don't have to bother coming back to.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:24 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:That didn't take long.

Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:31 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:That didn't take long.

Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?

Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem, and I reject sprinkles as a topping I should have to pay for on my sundae.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby RedLeader » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:32 am

NYBF wrote:On the plus side, it's one more thread I don't have to bother coming back to.


That IS a plus. ;)
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:38 am

The #MeToo movement should be innocent till proven guilty ...

No wait, claims against it should be assumed to be truthful ...

No wait, if a claim floats in water like a duck ...

Churches ....

Bring me my larger scales
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Rocker » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:39 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?

Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem, and I reject sprinkles as a topping I should have to pay for on my sundae.


I agree with all the things.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:16 pm

PanteraCanes wrote:So I heard about this story last night. Apparently 5 girls in highschool set out to ruin a male classmates life by accusing him of harassment and sexual assault. From the sound of it he got fired from his job, bullied in school, kicked out of school, put on probation, and sent to juvenile detention. Eventually the girl's scheme came out but they were never punished by the school or legal system. So the parents are suing the families of the girls, the school system, and the local legal system / prosecutors.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/08/school-under-fire-for-turning-blind-eye-to-female-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6244083/High-school-clique-mean-girls-sued-targeting-boy-false-allegations-sexual-assault.html

Interesting that the NYPost article appears to take pains to identify the male student only as T.F. but then they named his parents, Michael J. and Alecia Flood. smh
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Babeinbucland » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?

Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem.


Sadly too many on this forum will not have the grey matter, much less the willingness to understand the nuance and depth of what you are saying. But as someone who was viciously assaulted and never reported, I deeply appreciate your integrity, morals and your ability to write this so eloquently
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:23 pm

Babeinbucland wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem.


Sadly too many on this forum will not have the grey matter, much less the willingness to understand the nuance and depth of what you are saying. But as someone who was viciously assaulted and never reported, I deeply appreciate your integrity, morals and your ability to write this so eloquently

But you want me to pay for sprinkles.

Yeah, I saw you deleted that.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:27 pm

Bonus points for me writing eloquently whilst simultaneously using the the word "bitchy".

Seriously, though. There is a reason this is a national news story and we all know why. The media pushes these stories up for each of us to be able to say "ah-ha! SEE!"

Anyone else ever notice how during our back and fourths how many well timed articles are available for citation?
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:34 pm

Buc2 wrote:
PanteraCanes wrote:So I heard about this story last night. Apparently 5 girls in highschool set out to ruin a male classmates life by accusing him of harassment and sexual assault. From the sound of it he got fired from his job, bullied in school, kicked out of school, put on probation, and sent to juvenile detention. Eventually the girl's scheme came out but they were never punished by the school or legal system. So the parents are suing the families of the girls, the school system, and the local legal system / prosecutors.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/08/school-under-fire-for-turning-blind-eye-to-female-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6244083/High-school-clique-mean-girls-sued-targeting-boy-false-allegations-sexual-assault.html

Interesting that the NYPost article appears to take pains to identify the male student only as T.F. but then they named his parents, Michael J. and Alecia Flood. smh

High journalistic standards these days...
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:37 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?

Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem, and I reject sprinkles as a topping I should have to pay for on my sundae.


I'm not so sure about this though. This past weekend while I was down in FL visiting my grandparents, my mom and dad and I went for a walk along the riverwalk - I've said it before, but both of my parents are liberal MSNBC-watching boomers. My mom is absolutely devastated about the whole Kavanaugh thing. We talked for a good 45 minutes about the whole thing, where at certain points my mom was getting a little hysterical (rightfully so) recounting moments in her life where she encountered behavior from men that ranged from overt sexual assault to casual, uncomfortable situations of sexual nature.

After all of it, she's boiling down to the line, "what happened when all the boys were raped by the priests?! Did anyone ask to see photographic evidence!? NO - we just believed them. Can't we - FOR ONCE - just believe the women!?"

She's overshooting the mark here, IMO, and is ignoring all the times that we have - for instance, which I brought up, the Weinstein stuff.


Point is. My mom is just like A LOT of other women out there, who casually toss aside the premise of "due process". She is well read. She hangs with an intellectual class of women. They go to DC marches together. There are literally millions of women out there just like my mom. She does not represent what I would call the "liberal fringe extreme". But there is a sizable portion of people/women out there just like her who hold these kinds of views. And she, like a lot of other people/women, has no clue how radical that opinion actually is. And they're firm about it.
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Babeinbucland » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:38 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Babeinbucland wrote:
Sadly too many on this forum will not have the grey matter, much less the willingness to understand the nuance and depth of what you are saying. But as someone who was viciously assaulted and never reported, I deeply appreciate your integrity, morals and your ability to write this so eloquently

But you want me to pay for sprinkles.

Yeah, I saw you deleted that.


Don’t sprinkle me bro
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:43 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Why don’t you want to have a conversation about the culture that led to this?

Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem, and I reject sprinkles as a topping I should have to pay for on my sundae.

Do you think that the current culture had no effect on the way that the school handled the situation? The questions that these girls were asked (or not asked) during the course of the investigation?
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:43 pm

beardmcdoug wrote: I've said it before, but both of my parents are liberal MSNBC-watching boomers. .



you know what to do
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:43 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote: I've said it before, but both of my parents are liberal MSNBC-watching boomers. .



you know what to do

:lol:


















:birdiedoublegreen:
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:44 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote: I've said it before, but both of my parents are liberal MSNBC-watching boomers. .



you know what to do


LOL
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Because as much as some would love for it to be true, this has nothing to do with the Me too movement, nothing to do with Kavanaugh, and nothing to do with modern political culture.

It has everything to do with 3 bitchy girls who decided they could do whatever they want to whomever they want. And this could just as easily happened 25 years ago and probably did.

I reject the premise, I reject the effort to tie it to a larger social problem, and I reject sprinkles as a topping I should have to pay for on my sundae.

Do you think that the current culture had no effect on the way that the school handled the situation? The questions that these girls were asked (or not asked) during the course of the investigation?

I don't have any evidence to say one way or the other on how it was handled. And even if your premise is correct, what would you suggest we do about it?
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Do you think that the current culture had no effect on the way that the school handled the situation? The questions that these girls were asked (or not asked) during the course of the investigation?

I don't have any evidence to say one way or the other on how it was handled. And even if your premise is correct, what would you suggest we do about it?

Very simple. Listen to the accusation, determine corroborating evidence and ensure the rights of the accused are protected. If you read the article, the school clearly did not do the last part.

The thing that bothers me is the false dichotomy people set up: either you believe all women or you don’t listen to any. That is ****ing bullshit. As this story proves, to should not believe all women, because some women will use an allegation against someone they just don’t like. Conversely, it’s clear to anyone that some men do behave badly and many women are telling the truth when they come forward.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:14 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't have any evidence to say one way or the other on how it was handled. And even if your premise is correct, what would you suggest we do about it?

Very simple. Listen to the accusation, determine corroborating evidence and ensure the rights of the accused are protected. If you read the article, the school clearly did not do the last part.

The thing that bothers me is the false dichotomy people set up: either you believe all women or you don’t listen to any. That is ****ing bullshit. As this story proves, to should not believe all women, because some women will use an allegation against someone they just don’t like. Conversely, it’s clear to anyone that some men do behave badly and many women are telling the truth when they come forward.

The thing that bothers you is that they did not come to the immediate determination you did despite not having the benefit of your hindsight.

The school could not have saved this kid from what he went through, but IT DID save him from going through any more of it, because the girls ended up confessing to the school administrators when questioned by them in an effort to prepare for the legal battle they are now in.

The girls are the ***holes, Ken. They manipulated everyone involved.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby PanteraCanes » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:30 pm

Buc2 wrote:
PanteraCanes wrote:So I heard about this story last night. Apparently 5 girls in highschool set out to ruin a male classmates life by accusing him of harassment and sexual assault. From the sound of it he got fired from his job, bullied in school, kicked out of school, put on probation, and sent to juvenile detention. Eventually the girl's scheme came out but they were never punished by the school or legal system. So the parents are suing the families of the girls, the school system, and the local legal system / prosecutors.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/08/school-under-fire-for-turning-blind-eye-to-female-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6244083/High-school-clique-mean-girls-sued-targeting-boy-false-allegations-sexual-assault.html

Interesting that the NYPost article appears to take pains to identify the male student only as T.F. but then they named his parents, Michael J. and Alecia Flood. smh



I am guessing both the guy and the girls involved are probably still minors. So they will not get mentioned. While the parents are certainly not. Probably also some other laws involving people who at some point were defendants or plaintiffs in these type of cases.


I do agree that this kind of stuff has probably happened for a very long time. One of the other events I mentioned happened before any current movements. Though the current climate seems a lot more charged. Like all things there will probably be a back swing the other way.
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Re: Salem MeToo Trials

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Very simple. Listen to the accusation, determine corroborating evidence and ensure the rights of the accused are protected. If you read the article, the school clearly did not do the last part.

The thing that bothers me is the false dichotomy people set up: either you believe all women or you don’t listen to any. That is ****ing bullshit. As this story proves, to should not believe all women, because some women will use an allegation against someone they just don’t like. Conversely, it’s clear to anyone that some men do behave badly and many women are telling the truth when they come forward.

The thing that bothers you is that they did not come to the immediate determination you did despite not having the benefit of your hindsight.

The school could not have saved this kid from what he went through, but IT DID save him from going through any more of it, because the girls ended up confessing to the school administrators when questioned by them in an effort to prepare for the legal battle they are now in.

The girls are the ***holes, Ken. They manipulated everyone involved.

This started in July 2017. Kid was bullied all year at school until he was shackled in April of 2018 after another girl made an allegation. He reported the bullying to the school. You think the school protected him?

And it is ludicrous to me that high school girls were not influenced by a social media campaign that gets tons of attention. #BelieveAllWomen trending and thousands of retweeted graphs on how rare false reports of sexual assault are had nothing to do with this, you assure me. Certainly this could have happened 25 years ago (and did). That doesn’t mean this would have.
Last edited by Ken Carson on Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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