Trumps resignation

[Zarniwoop]

Whole lotta trickle down goin on.

I think maybe you are in the wrong thread. No one here is talking about trickle down economics. We have stated the obvious fact that when people or businesses have more money they spend more money.

[mdb1958]

“Economists surveyed by The Wall Street Journal say President Donald Trump has had generally positive effects on U.S. economic growth, hiring and the performance of the stock market...

The professional forecasters also predicted 2018 would see solid growth and a continued decline in the jobless rate. One factor: the tax cuts signed into law by Mr. Trump in December, which most economists say will boost the economy for several years at least.“

So they do these every few months - which month are you referring to in the above post?

Which moment would the Dems have not raised taxes. Its coming - vote for it. Everyone over 30,000 a year will feel it and that's just the early beginning.


The news will get quiet, the Dems will run around in Hollywood and the middle class on down will be just plain depressed.

[Mountaineer Buc]

Whole lotta trickle down goin on.

I think maybe you are in the wrong thread. No one here is talking about trickle down economics. We have stated the obvious fact that when people or businesses have more money they spend more money.

You were literally making the trickle down pitch in this thread.

[Mountaineer Buc]

There’s two components to the effect of tax cuts


1.). The initial optimism which has immediate impact

2.). The long term real $ change which drives sustainable growth

See?

Trickle down in a nutshell right here.

[mdb1958]

I cant see how anybody can up with good during the 8 years of shite we lived through.

[Zarniwoop]

Lol. Show me where anyone talked about who should get what percent of tax breaks

We said there were tax breaks - disagree?

We said people and businesses who receive tax breaks will spend some of that money — disagree?


Some businesses have chosen to pay workers more — disagree?

[Zarniwoop]

There’s two components to the effect of tax cuts


1.). The initial optimism which has immediate impact

2.). The long term real $ change which drives sustainable growth

See?

Trickle down in a nutshell right here.

That is nowhere close to trickle down economics

[Mountaineer Buc]

If you say so.

[Zarniwoop]

If you say so.

Only you see class warfare in everything.


The vast majority of Americans got a tax break. The vast majority of businesses got tax breaks.

Most people and most businesses will spend more money because of it ... they will spend some in advance of receiving the money and they will wait for other spending increases


Only you see anything in any of that as trickle down

[mdb1958]

“Economists surveyed by The Wall Street Journal say President Donald Trump has had generally positive effects on U.S. economic growth, hiring and the performance of the stock market...

The professional forecasters also predicted 2018 would see solid growth and a continued decline in the jobless rate. One factor: the tax cuts signed into law by Mr. Trump in December, which most economists say will boost the economy for several years at least.“

While I do believe the tax cuts are good for the economy and everyone, most economist believe it will take at least a year, some think 2 years to see the benefit. It's something they have to count on and factor into budgets beyond the initial almost bonus to the first year. I've heard both liberal and conservative leaning economist say that you need to wait at least 2 years to judge the cuts.

How is going back to work not a benefit? Or selecting even a better job. Please tell me why the whole country wouldnt be in line with getting this country better.

Nobody would have ever come up with taking back from the world to help the situation our country was in. Well they actually say it never could be done - ever. If anyone had their thinking cap on they would realize that is what the fighting is really all about. Individuals and corporations alike dont want that profit spoon taken out of their mouth.

[Mountaineer Buc]

If you say so.

Only you see class warfare in everything.


The vast majority of Americans got a tax break. The vast majority of businesses got tax breaks.

Most people and most businesses will spend more money because of it ... they will spend some in advance of receiving the money and they will wait for other spending increases


Only you see anything in any of that as trickle down

Whatever, dude. I don't have time for you right now.

[uscbucsfan]

[RedLeader]

Only you see class warfare in everything.


The vast majority of Americans got a tax break. The vast majority of businesses got tax breaks.

Most people and most businesses will spend more money because of it ... they will spend some in advance of receiving the money and they will wait for other spending increases


Only you see anything in any of that as trickle down

Whatever, dude. I don't have time for you right now.

Lol.

[Zarniwoop]

Whatever, dude. I don't have time for you right now.

Lol.

It reminded me of what happened about a month ago at my house. I let my 9 year old daughter have three friends sleep over. They are getting to that age where they do gossip stuff now. One of the girls was complaining about another girl at school and she said “I’m going to call Cora up and tell her I’m not talking to her anymore”.

I chuckled

[Ken Carson]

Here is the problem that my party is having right now... we’ve decided that only two things bear discussion: 1.) Trump is evil incarnate and we are holy warriors for standing up to everything he does always and 2.) the tax cut was a corporate hack job that underserves the people.

There are two major problems with that when it comes to the economy. Most people I know, many of them Democrats, have more money than they did last year. They are spending it on new cars, home improvements, and other big jobs. It’s almost impossible to sustain the larger base of Democrats with those two talking points when reality is at odds with them.

Personally, my wife and I basically got a large pay increase from the tax cut. The more competitive market led a company to acquire my wife’s company and increase her salary another 30%. I’m due to discuss a raise in the next month and I’ve already gotten multiple offers from rival companies that would significantly outpace my current salary.

So, at the end of the day, right now the Ds strategy is to convince people like me, who were really disinterested last election cycle to ignore all the positive stuff and lap up the only 2 things they are consistently selling. Bad strategy. All the talk of positive momentum for the midterms is, IMO, talk. Ds and Is know that not supporting the party publicly leads to shaming and what not, but you won’t be getting people off their asses and to voting booths with this pathetic slop of a platform.

[uscbucsfan]

Here is the problem that my party is having right now... we’ve decided that only two things bear discussion: 1.) Trump is evil incarnate and we are holy warriors for standing up to everything he does always and 2.) the tax cut was a corporate hack job that underserves the people.

There are two major problems with that when it comes to the economy. Most people I know, many of them Democrats, have more money than they did last year. They are spending it on new cars, home improvements, and other big jobs. It’s almost impossible to sustain the larger base of Democrats with those two talking points when reality is at odds with them.

Personally, my wife and I basically got a large pay increase from the tax cut. The more competitive market led a company to acquire my wife’s company and increase her salary another 30%. I’m due to discuss a raise in the next month and I’ve already gotten multiple offers from rival companies that would significantly outpace my current salary.

So, at the end of the day, right now the Ds strategy is to convince people like me, who were really disinterested last election cycle to ignore all the positive stuff and lap up the only 2 things they are consistently selling. Bad strategy. All the talk of positive momentum for the midterms is, IMO, talk. Ds and Is know that not supporting the party publicly leads to shaming and what not, but you won’t be getting people off their asses and to voting booths with this pathetic slop of a platform.

MB's and some other D's play isn't to convince people like me or you that the economy is bad. It's to convince the bleeding hearts out there that the lowest common denominator is struggling more than ever. MB tries to embellish this by saying it's almost half of the population, but that's where I said he would lose people, because it's simply not true. It's too easy to look around and see that it's not true.

[mightyleemoon]

I'd settle for a few of your BS lines on how he is sinking this country.

"Turns out, this country is harder to sink than people thought."

I didn't even think you could **** comprehending such a direct statement. But, you found a way. Bravo.

[MJW]

Here is the problem that my party is having right now... we’ve decided that only two things bear discussion: 1.) Trump is evil incarnate and we are holy warriors for standing up to everything he does always and 2.) the tax cut was a corporate hack job that underserves the people.

There are two major problems with that when it comes to the economy. Most people I know, many of them Democrats, have more money than they did last year. They are spending it on new cars, home improvements, and other big jobs. It’s almost impossible to sustain the larger base of Democrats with those two talking points when reality is at odds with them.

Personally, my wife and I basically got a large pay increase from the tax cut. The more competitive market led a company to acquire my wife’s company and increase her salary another 30%. I’m due to discuss a raise in the next month and I’ve already gotten multiple offers from rival companies that would significantly outpace my current salary.

So, at the end of the day, right now the Ds strategy is to convince people like me, who were really disinterested last election cycle to ignore all the positive stuff and lap up the only 2 things they are consistently selling. Bad strategy. All the talk of positive momentum for the midterms is, IMO, talk. Ds and Is know that not supporting the party publicly leads to shaming and what not, but you won’t be getting people off their asses and to voting booths with this pathetic slop of a platform.

MB's and some other D's play isn't to convince people like me or you that the economy is bad. It's to convince the bleeding hearts out there that the lowest common denominator is struggling more than ever. MB tries to embellish this by saying it's almost half of the population, but that's where I said he would lose people, because it's simply not true. It's too easy to look around and see that it's not true.

It's becoming more and more apparent that the economy is humming, and harder and harder to argue otherwise. I loathe POTUS but it is what it is. My paychecks have been bigger and my taxes have been lower, and I'm a long way from wealthy.

All the Dems have to sell is the idea that Republicans are evil and POTUS will kill them all. Or, alternately, that Republicans are more uncool than ever, and POTUS will kill them all. If there's a national platform at play, I haven't seen it. It seems like they'll be content to simply let Trump remind everyone how gross he is, and offer a sane alternative. Which would work great if they'd stop acting insane. I think they'll close the gap because of general enthusiasm. But they're not going to be able to win back either house without attracting people who just watched their paychecks get fatter the last two years.

[mightyleemoon]

lol

I knew some of you were on your knees in front of Trump. But, this thread is full on comedy. So many people who think this country was completely in the shitter for the past decade and, suddenly, everything is amazing now. And the minority folks who think, suddenly, everything is horrible.

I mean, your glasses are about as tinted as they can possibly be. You guys need to work on removing your delusions.

[uscbucsfan]

lol

I knew some of you were on your knees in front of Trump. But, this thread is full on comedy. So many people who think this country was completely in the shitter for the past decade and, suddenly, everything is amazing now. And the minority folks who think, suddenly, everything is horrible.

I mean, your glasses are about as tinted as they can possibly be. You guys need to work on removing your delusions.

We get it. You are a warrior in the middle. It's ignorant of you to believe that things like tax changes don't have positive or negative impacts on the economy. Wages, jobs, and consumerism has increased this year at healthy rates. The policies and people in power influence this.

[mdb1958]

I'd settle for a few of your BS lines on how he is sinking this country.

"Turns out, this country is harder to sink than people thought."

I didn't even think you could **** comprehending such a direct statement. But, you found a way. Bravo.

I hate the us and them division going on. Why? Because its like soap operas and I hate soap operas. I just dont see where he is trying to ruin this country. He is pretty old and his clock is ticking, if everybody is thinking he is just doing things to keep his family wealthy, what rich person dont think like that? I'm 60 and I look at it like all the other presidents before - not much of anything they have done will change the rest of my life to the better, but for me and my family's future it could get worse. I have made many posts about what I think is going on and everybody stays away from talking about it. I have no doubt that the real battle going on is Trump is changing or wanting to, the rules of how rich people and rich corporations use and manage their wealth.

It has been set up for years to use the wealth world wide and maximize the greedy profit. Now I see where Trump is trying to change it as take less profit - still make money at a lesser clip and help the United States and its people.

Think about it, we have the richest people in the world while our government has more debt than the next 20 richest countries (leaving out Japan). The rich in Japan are using the same model as us - farm everything out, get richer, and make your people work till they die.

[mdb1958]

offer a sane alternative. Which would work great

Little help on this MJW if you would.

[mdb1958]

As long as our government owes 20 trillion no piss ant American will ever see where they can better themselves by putting money in a savings account. The rich, both democrat and republican, who by the way get to play in the Hamptons every year dont want that to change.

These people would rather see foreign countrys own property , land, and businesses in our own country than have Americans own their own houses and or be able to have any kind of competition directed towards them even at a way lesser scale.

[mdb1958]

I would love to hear from a dozen or so of ya's and tell me where I got this all wrong.

[Zarniwoop]

Here is the problem that my party is having right now... we’ve decided that only two things bear discussion: 1.) Trump is evil incarnate and we are holy warriors for standing up to everything he does always and 2.) the tax cut was a corporate hack job that underserves the people.

There are two major problems with that when it comes to the economy. Most people I know, many of them Democrats, have more money than they did last year. They are spending it on new cars, home improvements, and other big jobs. It’s almost impossible to sustain the larger base of Democrats with those two talking points when reality is at odds with them.

Personally, my wife and I basically got a large pay increase from the tax cut. The more competitive market led a company to acquire my wife’s company and increase her salary another 30%. I’m due to discuss a raise in the next month and I’ve already gotten multiple offers from rival companies that would significantly outpace my current salary.

So, at the end of the day, right now the Ds strategy is to convince people like me, who were really disinterested last election cycle to ignore all the positive stuff and lap up the only 2 things they are consistently selling. Bad strategy. All the talk of positive momentum for the midterms is, IMO, talk. Ds and Is know that not supporting the party publicly leads to shaming and what not, but you won’t be getting people off their asses and to voting booths with this pathetic slop of a platform.

As always good post Ken.

The Dems have to learn from the past -- as you said you can't go after a President on the economy when the economy is as strong as it is now. It didn't work for the Republicans against Obama in 2012 when the economy was improving from the recession, it won't work now. Most people lives are better now economically then they were a few years ago. There are only two economic issues they can possibly have success running on:

1.) The deficit -- even as the economy is soaring along the deficit is growing. Yikes! The problem with running on this is it would be hypocritical and the public would see through it...the deficit grows under D's just like it does R's and all the other free stuff they are running on (healthcare, college, jobs for all, etc) will only make the deficit worse.

2.) Trade ... I have been opponent #1 on this board to Trump's ridiculous trade wars. The Dems can still capitalize on this. Even if Trump's strategy works (which I don't think it will), it will take time. In the mean time prices are going up and we are having to subsidize industries at unprecedented pace.


There are tons of other issues they can successfully run on -- the personality of the president being #1....they need to stay away from economics altogether IMO.

[Zarniwoop]

As long as our government owes 20 trillion no piss ant American will ever see where they can better themselves by putting money in a savings account. The rich, both democrat and republican, who by the way get to play in the Hamptons every year dont want that to change.

These people would rather see foreign countrys own property , land, and businesses in our own country than have Americans own their own houses and or be able to have any kind of competition directed towards them even at a way lesser scale.

If anyone is putting money into a bank savings account to try to make more money...they are doing it COMPLETELY WRONG.

[Mountaineer Buc]

It seems my motives have been called into question. Well, I started it so here goes...

"Tax cuts boost the economy" has been a mantra of supply side economics for 40 years. I think its rubbish and I believe I have 40 years of evidence to support my claim. Just because the working class got a bigger standard deduction does not make it different this time around.

MJW's point on "Trump is evil" as a strategy may have been a critique of the national party, but I'm left thinking this is somewhat directed at me and I'm obliged to respond. Don't lump me in with those people. If you want to know who I do and do not support in congress, you can start with the people who do not accept corporate or PAC donations. We can discuss ideological differences you have with those guys, but I'm not going to defend the Pelosi's, Booker's, and Schumer's of the party on ideological grounds. I have as much in common with those people as I do with Ted Cruz.

As for Trump, that dickhead is going to get whatever he's got coming. I'm the guy that said "Wait for Mueller" and I'm doing that. As for beating him this fall and in 2020, it's going to take candidates who offer something better. Corey Booker is NOT one of those candidates.

Back on the economy. My whole point yesterday is this: As smashingly good as things are going right now, there are plenty of people not doing so great. And there is obviously more of them than many of you would like to believe. You should believe it because a sizable amount of them are conservatives. Surely, you don't think it was just young liberals who worked at Harley Davidson, Toys R Us, and Tesla. And I'm quite certain the majority of farmers getting ready for a harvest that will lose them money this year because of the President's stupid trade war are represented by the Republicans they voted for. These people, along with a whole lot more that I didn't mention just now are who I'm concerned about. Regular, hardworking people who are either just hanging on, or getting straight up screwed right now.

Moving forward, I think we are in a bubble. I don't know what sector of the economy will give out first, or when it will happen, but it WILL happen. The Dow is up 10,000 points since 2013, Inflation is up 14% since 2009, and wages have been flat for decades. Something has got to give. The Fed knows it and that's why they're hiking interest rates. Do I blame Donald Trump for this? No. Will he do something stupid to be the catalyst for a recession? Wouldn't surprise me at all. At the end of the day, the people who are not well served by all the good times going on now are the ones who are going to get crushed by this. That bothers me. And the fastest way to piss me off is to suggest that these people (regardless of who they voted for in the last election) are in the position they are in because of their own failings or otherwise have it coming. If that is your take on nearly half the country, we are not going to get along.

Finally, If I tell you I don't have time for you right now, it means that I literally don't have time for you right now. You are not the only person around here with children, you ****ing prick.

[mdb1958]

Here is the problem that my party is having right now... we’ve decided that only two things bear discussion: 1.) Trump is evil incarnate and we are holy warriors for standing up to everything he does always and 2.) the tax cut was a corporate hack job that underserves the people.

There are two major problems with that when it comes to the economy. Most people I know, many of them Democrats, have more money than they did last year. They are spending it on new cars, home improvements, and other big jobs. It’s almost impossible to sustain the larger base of Democrats with those two talking points when reality is at odds with them.

Personally, my wife and I basically got a large pay increase from the tax cut. The more competitive market led a company to acquire my wife’s company and increase her salary another 30%. I’m due to discuss a raise in the next month and I’ve already gotten multiple offers from rival companies that would significantly outpace my current salary.

So, at the end of the day, right now the Ds strategy is to convince people like me, who were really disinterested last election cycle to ignore all the positive stuff and lap up the only 2 things they are consistently selling. Bad strategy. All the talk of positive momentum for the midterms is, IMO, talk. Ds and Is know that not supporting the party publicly leads to shaming and what not, but you won’t be getting people off their asses and to voting booths with this pathetic slop of a platform.

As always good post Ken.

The Dems have to learn from the past -- as you said you can't go after a President on the economy when the economy is as strong as it is now. It didn't work for the Republicans against Obama in 2012 when the economy was improving from the recession, it won't work now. Most people lives are better now economically then they were a few years ago. There are only two economic issues they can possibly have success running on:

1.) The deficit -- even as the economy is soaring along the deficit is growing. Yikes! The problem with running on this is it would be hypocritical and the public would see through it...the deficit grows under D's just like it does R's and all the other free stuff they are running on (healthcare, college, jobs for all, etc) will only make the deficit worse.

2.) Trade ... I have been opponent #1 on this board to Trump's ridiculous trade wars. The Dems can still capitalize on this. Even if Trump's strategy works (which I don't think it will), it will take time. In the mean time prices are going up and we are having to subsidize industries at unprecedented pace.


There are tons of other issues they can successfully run on -- the personality of the president being #1....they need to stay away from economics altogether IMO.

Everything you just posted explains how to go backwards. Its saying how the rich wont allow something to happen. Somebody can look it up, but it probably is 70 years of being in the negative with trade. Thats not the government making money from it, thats losing money.

[mdb1958]

It has to be government and people, it cant just be whats good for the people. That will be failure to anyone ever being able to pull it out of the hole.

[Zarniwoop]

you ****ing prick.

i love you too