Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

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Should we subsidize select industries hurt from the trade war?

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No
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Total votes : 8

Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:16 pm

Ok, so now that our trading partners are retaliating against many of our new tariffs, President Trump has decided to pick and choose what industries to subsidize with his new $12B bailout for farmers.

There are lots of potential things to vote on when it comes to this but I want to keep it to something VERY specific...(so please don't vote on the broader trade war issue...take that as "fixed" for this question)


Should we start bailing out / subsidizing select industries from the negative consequences of our new tariffs?
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:18 pm

Potus shouldn't be allowed to subsidize the people he hurts through his stupidity.

They voted for him, time to get what they voted for.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:18 pm

I voted yes. The president is steering the country (at the behest of his voters) in a certain direction. If he believes that tariffs are part of "righting the ship", and he has to throw weight behind certain sectors in order to make the broader picture work, then I understand it and I think its the right thing to do
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:19 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:I voted yes. The president is steering the country (at the behest of his voters) in a certain direction. If he believes that tariffs are part of "righting the ship", and he has to throw weight behind certain sectors in order to make the broader picture work, then I understand it and I think its the right thing to do

Yea, while I don't agree with the tariffs, I understand the intended point of them and to make them work this is necessary.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:25 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:I voted yes. The president is steering the country (at the behest of his voters) in a certain direction. If he believes that tariffs are part of "righting the ship", and he has to throw weight behind certain sectors in order to make the broader picture work, then I understand it and I think its the right thing to do

Yea, while I don't agree with the tariffs, I understand the intended point of them and to make them work this is necessary.

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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:26 pm

Yes. Like others have said, I'm not a fan of tariffs. Be it import OR export tariffs. I also believe this is a short term solution and that, ultimately, his tariff strategy may very well work. I just hate the short-term consequences. But if you're going to do it, now is probably the best time to do it...while the economy is hot.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:28 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Yea, while I don't agree with the tariffs, I understand the intended point of them and to make them work this is necessary.

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Yup. The tariffs are a terrible idea and much like most terribly ill-conceived government intervention, they require government subsidies to make them happen. The intention is to try to get an upper hand in trade, especially with China and them devaluing their currency. For that to work, it has to continue. I just don't agree with it in the first place.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:28 pm

you marooons :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: ....the questions specifically says take the tariffs as fixed.....should the president pick and choose what industries to prop up?



I hate when bureaucrats do this...whether it be Trump playing to the Heartland or Obama propping up alternative energy....bad policy all around

either everyone suffers...or no one does.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:31 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:you marooons :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: ....the questions specifically says take the tariffs as fixed.....should the president pick and choose what industries to prop up?



I hate when bureaucrats do this...whether it be Trump playing to the Heartland or Obama propping up alternative energy....bad policy all around

either everyone suffers...or no one does.

The subsidy is to make sure no one does.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:32 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:you marooons :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: ....the questions specifically says take the tariffs as fixed.....should the president pick and choose what industries to prop up?



I hate when bureaucrats do this...whether it be Trump playing to the Heartland or Obama propping up alternative energy....bad policy all around

either everyone suffers...or no one does.


The tariffs being fixed is imagination land. Anytime the government steps into an industry, it's almost inevitable that it will need to help support said industry. So you can't separate them. My stance is the same as yours, but if the government comes in and fucks things up, they can't let it die from their mistake.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:48 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:you marooons :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: :buttmoon: ....the questions specifically says take the tariffs as fixed.....should the president pick and choose what industries to prop up?



I hate when bureaucrats do this...whether it be Trump playing to the Heartland or Obama propping up alternative energy....bad policy all around

either everyone suffers...or no one does.


The tariffs being fixed is imagination land. Anytime the government steps into an industry, it's almost inevitable that it will need to help support said industry. So you can't separate them. My stance is the same as yours, but if the government comes in and fucks things up, they can't let it die from their mistake.



The tariffs are currently in practice...that is what I mean by fixed. They can change anytime...but as of now...we have them.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
The tariffs being fixed is imagination land. Anytime the government steps into an industry, it's almost inevitable that it will need to help support said industry. So you can't separate them. My stance is the same as yours, but if the government comes in and fucks things up, they can't let it die from their mistake.



The tariffs are currently in practice...that is what I mean by fixed. They can change anytime...but as of now...we have them.


Isn't that the case for the subsidies?

I mean why accept the tariffs when that can be undone? In a vacuum, no I don't like subsidizing anything, especially selectively, but the reality is that the government implemented tariffs are causing this.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:56 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

The tariffs are currently in practice...that is what I mean by fixed. They can change anytime...but as of now...we have them.


Isn't that the case for the subsidies?

I mean why accept the tariffs when that can be undone? In a vacuum, no I don't like subsidizing anything, especially selectively, but the reality is that the government implemented tariffs are causing this.



i guess I'll just call this one a lost cause....I apparently can't communicate today




My biggest issue is that while we have implemented tariffs that hurt a lot of industries, we are only propping up ones that Trump sees fit. It should be either all or none. NONE is better than ALL....both are better than SOME
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:59 pm

No, because honestly, **** everyone else. I got mine.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:02 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Isn't that the case for the subsidies?

I mean why accept the tariffs when that can be undone? In a vacuum, no I don't like subsidizing anything, especially selectively, but the reality is that the government implemented tariffs are causing this.



i guess I'll just call this one a lost cause....I apparently can't communicate today




My biggest issue is that while we have implemented tariffs that hurt a lot of industries, we are only propping up ones that Trump sees fit. It should be either all or none. NONE is better than ALL....both are better than SOME


I mean I guess I have a different perspective, because the industries I've seen that are being bailed out are the ones that are critically suffering. It's not like others are failing. I see your point about selectively distributing tax dollars, but again...the whole situation is fucked up.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:03 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Isn't that the case for the subsidies?

I mean why accept the tariffs when that can be undone? In a vacuum, no I don't like subsidizing anything, especially selectively, but the reality is that the government implemented tariffs are causing this.



i guess I'll just call this one a lost cause....I apparently can't communicate today




My biggest issue is that while we have implemented tariffs that hurt a lot of industries, we are only propping up ones that Trump sees fit. It should be either all or none. NONE is better than ALL....both are better than SOME



every industry has different problems and different attributes - each should be approached with that context in mind!
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:22 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:

every industry has different problems and different attributes - each should be approached with that context in mind!


As you know from my illustrious and freaking brilliant posting career...you know I am not a one size fits all kind of guy -- i mean look at the chicks i find hot...does anyone else?


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but when it comes to gov't trying to fix a problem they created i just don't like the pick and choose approach. either we as a nation deal with the blowblack from countries responding to our trade war, or we don't. We do it as a nation.

Many industries will be hurt directly and indirectly through this trade war...I hate that the president is picking and choosing what he feels is most important. Obama did it. I hated it. Bush did it, I hated it. Even Reagan did it with H-D. It is just bad precedent.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:30 pm

GROSS!
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:31 pm

My chicken wings I had for lunch had more meat on em'.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:54 pm

I cannot unsee that. :(
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby NYBF » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:06 pm

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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:07 pm

bunch of skinny-shamers
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Cheb » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Should we start bailing out / subsidizing select industries from the negative consequences of our new tariffs?


No.

Trump very stupidly instituted these tariffs. Selectively bailing out certain businesses from the consequences of retaliatory tariffs is horseshit, particularly because that industry overwhelmingly voted for him (rural Republicans). It's playing favorites, which coming from his is no surprise.

Republican farmers voted for a man who is not acting in their best interests. If Trump's actions **** over the family farm, then maybe they will start to realize that elections have consequences. And their complaining about it is nauseating.

It's like a guy who wants to start a fight and throws the first punch. He feels good about himself. When he gets hit himself (a consequence in fights), he complains about getting punched, saying he's being aggressed on and that he did nothing wrong. It's like dude, you threw the first punch. If you can't take a hit, then don't start swinging. Maybe don't do that **** in the first place.

So the wind, reap the whirlwind.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:27 pm

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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:32 pm

Cheb wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
Should we start bailing out / subsidizing select industries from the negative consequences of our new tariffs?


No.

Trump very stupidly instituted these tariffs. Selectively bailing out certain businesses from the consequences of retaliatory tariffs is horseshit, particularly because that industry overwhelmingly voted for him (rural Republicans). It's playing favorites, which coming from his is no surprise.

Republican farmers voted for a man who is not acting in their best interests. If Trump's actions **** over the family farm, then maybe they will start to realize that elections have consequences. And their complaining about it is nauseating.

It's like a guy who wants to start a fight and throws the first punch. He feels good about himself. When he gets hit himself (a consequence in fights), he complains about getting punched, saying he's being aggressed on and that he did nothing wrong. It's like dude, you threw the first punch. If you can't take a hit, then don't start swinging. Maybe don't do that **** in the first place.

So the wind, reap the whirlwind.


surely you and all those other farmers based your vote on more than one issue though, correct?

in fact, might it be the most commendable stance to set aside your own best interests and vote for a candidate that you believe will, overall, be in the best interest of the nation, and thus, the other citizens of the nation?
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:47 pm


Reported.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby Cheb » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:11 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Cheb wrote:
No.

Trump very stupidly instituted these tariffs. Selectively bailing out certain businesses from the consequences of retaliatory tariffs is horseshit, particularly because that industry overwhelmingly voted for him (rural Republicans). It's playing favorites, which coming from his is no surprise.

Republican farmers voted for a man who is not acting in their best interests. If Trump's actions **** over the family farm, then maybe they will start to realize that elections have consequences. And their complaining about it is nauseating.

It's like a guy who wants to start a fight and throws the first punch. He feels good about himself. When he gets hit himself (a consequence in fights), he complains about getting punched, saying he's being aggressed on and that he did nothing wrong. It's like dude, you threw the first punch. If you can't take a hit, then don't start swinging. Maybe don't do that **** in the first place.

So the wind, reap the whirlwind.


surely you and all those other farmers based your vote on more than one issue though, correct?

in fact, might it be the most commendable stance to set aside your own best interests and vote for a candidate that you believe will, overall, be in the best interest of the nation, and thus, the other citizens of the nation?


I'm no farmer and I certainly didn't vote for Trump.

As far as voting against your interests, people do it all the time. It depends on what you choose to do so for. Most everyone I've ever voted for is a Democrat, the party of tax and spend, who by all rights should tax me into the ground. And I'm willing to take that hit. The government doesn't need to bail me out when the people I got into office start doing what I voted them into office to do.

If a rural farmer voted for Trump because of reasons, then gets a bailout when he shoots them in the foot, they aren't being noble. They are having their cake and eating it too, at the expense of other people's cake.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:18 pm

:x
Cheb wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
surely you and all those other farmers based your vote on more than one issue though, correct?

in fact, might it be the most commendable stance to set aside your own best interests and vote for a candidate that you believe will, overall, be in the best interest of the nation, and thus, the other citizens of the nation?


I'm no farmer and I certainly didn't vote for Trump.

As far as voting against your interests, people do it all the time. It depends on what you choose to do so for. Most everyone I've ever voted for is a Democrat, the party of tax and spend, who by all rights should tax me into the ground. And I'm willing to take that hit. The government doesn't need to bail me out when the people I got into office start doing what I voted them into office to do.

If a rural farmer voted for Trump because of reasons, then gets a bailout when he shoots them in the foot, they aren't being noble. They are having their cake and eating it too, at the expense of other people's cake.



They also aren't learning their lesson. Maybe a little hardship will make them think a little harder next time they go to the ballot box.


Oh who the hell am I kidding. They'll just double down on their current bullshit.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby deltbucs » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:37 pm

In before thread is about socialism
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 9 - Oxymoron edition

Postby MJW » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:06 pm

It's because of sociali-

****!
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