Justice vs Social Justice

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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:14 pm

Good video.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:32 am

Speaking of SJW, or as mlm suggested, SJ terrorists, some of you might be interested in this story an acquaintance posted. I think it coattails with some of the views on SJW's here.

WND {yes...WND. No one is forcing you to read it & the link to Nolan's Splinter commentary is linked at the bottom of my post so you can read it yourself instead of this WND recap if you prefer.}
UP NEXT: 1970S-STYLE BOMBINGS, WARNS PROGRESSIVE
Interrupting meals 'just the beginning' of resistance to Republicans
Published: 15 hours ago

“Do you think that being asked to leave a restaurant, or having your meal interrupted, or being called by the public is bad? My fascism-enabling friends, this is only the beginning,” writes Splinter senior writer Hamilton Nolan.

Pointing to history, he writes that the U.S. “had thousands of domestic bombings per year in the early 1970s.”

“This is what happens when citizens decide en masse that their political system is corrupt, racist, and unresponsive,” says Nolan.

“The people out of power have only just begun to flex their dissatisfaction. The day will come, sooner that you all think, when Trump administration officials will look back fondly on the time when all they had to worry about was getting hollered at at a Mexican restaurant.”

He reasons that when “you aggressively f— with people’s lives, you should not be surprised when they decide to f— with yours.”

Splinter is a news and opinion website owned by the progressive Gizmodo Media Group, a division of Univision Communications, the Hispanic media giant. Splinter’s direct owner, Fusion Media Group, was purchased from Disney in April 2016. Fusion describes itself as Univision’s multi-platform, English language division “dedicated to serving young, diverse America.”

The Gateway Pundit blog notes Splinter has 586,000 followers on Twitter. {This should be at least a bit concerning. These are numbers that shouldn't be ignored or underestimated.}

Nolan, who counts an op-ed for the New York Times among his writing credits, contends Trump administration officials should not be allowed “to live their lives in peace and affluence while they inflict serious harms on large portions of the American population.”

“Not being able to go to restaurants and attend parties and be celebrated is just the minimum baseline here. These people, who are pushing America merrily down the road to fascism and white nationalism, are delusional if they do not think that the backlash is going to get much worse,” he says.

Nolan says some of the “Trump outrages,” such as “ripping families apart at the border, show their costs immediately; others, like eschewing the fight against climate change and neutering the EPA and mainstreaming white nationalist ideas, will be manifesting their costs for many decades to come.”

In the years 1971 and 1972 alone, according to the FBI, more than 2,000 bombs were planted throughout the United States by domestic terrorist groups. Among the chief culprits was the Weather Underground, led by Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dorn, who hosted a fundraiser at their home to launch Barack Obama’s political career. Among the Weather Underground’s targets were the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol.


Nolan headlined his commentary with this pic...

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Quite incendiary to say the least.
Last edited by Buc2 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:34 am

Crazies exist everywhere.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:41 am

The Outsider wrote:Crazies exist everywhere.

No doubt. Hopefully they don't answer this nutjobs hint (call) for violence.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:20 pm

I wanted to pull this out:
One thing that people who wield great power often fail to viscerally understand is what it feels like to have power wielded against you. This imbalance is the source of many of the most monstrous decisions that get made by powerful people and institutions. The people who start the wars do not have bombs dropped on their houses. The people who pass the laws that incarcerate others never have to face the full force of the prison system themselves. The people who design the economic system that inflicts poverty on millions are themselves rich. This sort of insulation from the real world consequences of political and economic decisions makes it very easy for powerful people to approve of things happening to the rest of us that they would never, ever tolerate themselves. No health insurance CEO would watch his child die due to their inability to afford quality health care. No chickenhawk Congressman will be commanding a tank battle in Iran. No opportunistic race-baiting politician will be shunned because of their skin color. Zealots condemn gay people—except for their own gay children. The weed-smoking of young immigrants should get them deported—but our own weed-smoking was a youthful indiscretion. Environmentalist celebrities fly on carbon-spouting private jets. Banks make ostentatious charity donations while raking in billions from investments in defense contractors and gun manufacturers and oil companies. This is human nature. It is very, very easy to do things that hurt others as long as those same things benefit, rather than hurt, you. Self-justification is a specialty of mankind.

A well-designed political system would have a built-in feedback system to ensure that those making the decisions are also subject to the consequences of those decisions. Minor versions of this are floated every now and then: Put Congress on Obamacare! Pay elected officials what their average constituents earn! But in aggregate, of course, we have nothing like this feedback mechanism in America. The titans of money congregate on Wall Street and the titans of government congregate in DC and they all make decisions that often disenfranchise and impoverish and frustrate the dreams of people far away, and then they go to nice restaurants and go home to nice houses and have nice, well-paid careers for decades to come. That is our system. There is little incentive for those who work within that system to change it in a way that might create the sort of negative feedback that can be unpleasant. Therefore it is the job of the public to do just that. Doing so is, in fact, a public service. It promotes good government.


It's hard to argue with like 95% of the stuff he says here. The problem is that we do have a built-in feedback system called elections. And while he doesn't necessarily advocate violence, he does say that it is inevitable. It shouldn't be. And anyone who believes in democracy should denounce violence, even in the 'cause of righteousness.'
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:31 pm

Ken who wrote that?

And where did you get the inevitably of violence from? I don’t see it in the quote you posted
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:48 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Ken who wrote that?

And where did you get the inevitably of violence from? I don’t see it in the quote you posted

It's a commentary by Splinter senior writer Hamilton Nolan. Here's the link...
https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-t ... 1827099100

It's also linked in my post above.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:55 pm

Interesting read to say the least.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:04 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Interesting read to say the least.

I agree, which is why I posted the excerpt I did, which was not included in the section reviewed by the original article. I appreciate Buc2 linking it so the original source could be examined.

It's very French Revolution, Jacobin in nature, obviously influenced by Marxism to some degree, so I think that the viewpoint of the author is flawed. But that does not detract from the fact that the author is also correct that those who are often making decisions that affect others literal lives do not have to suffer the consequences the intentionally or unintentionally cause. Well, if we extend my Jacobin trope, maybe they do feel the consequences like Robespierre.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:08 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Ken who wrote that?

And where did you get the inevitably of violence from? I don’t see it in the quote you posted

It's a commentary by Splinter senior writer Hamilton Nolan. Here's the link...
https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-t ... 1827099100

It's also linked in my post above.


Ok thx




Personally I think the only time violence is justified is when you have a government that is tyrannical over its people.


Our govt is shitty but by no means tyrannical.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:15 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Interesting read to say the least.

I agree, which is why I posted the excerpt I did, which was not included in the section reviewed by the original article. I appreciate Buc2 linking it so the original source could be examined.

It's very French Revolution, Jacobin in nature, obviously influenced by Marxism to some degree, so I think that the viewpoint of the author is flawed. But that does not detract from the fact that the author is also correct that those who are often making decisions that affect others literal lives do not have to suffer the consequences the intentionally or unintentionally cause. Well, if we extend my Jacobin trope, maybe they do feel the consequences like Robespierre.

Yes. He is correct in saying that. But that is nothing new or earth shattering. It's also been the case since the dawn of mankind and it will likely remain that way for generations to come, if not forever. That's still no reason to foment violence against lawfully elected/selected government officials. That kind of change needs to be done in the voting booth. No, he isn't exactly putting himself in the cross-hairs by overtly inciting violence, but it appears implicit in his commentary and may likely be taken as call to arms by the SJW and/or Antifa crowd.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:25 pm

America was founded on the idea of citizen legislators so imo our founders would've agreed with some of points made about accountability and how today's politicians are more insulated than they should be from the decisions they make.

But our founders also made the First Amendment for a reason and I think it's something that this author and many others take for granted as Americans. Even a western democracy like the UK doesn't have a mechanism like the first amendment that protects citizens right to assemble and voice their grievances AGAINST their own government without reprisal. We also have democratic elections that form our unique representative Republic to ensure mob rule (aka pure democracy) never takes place.

If you read the Federalist papers and articles of the Constitution there is a constant tone around preventing a tyrannical government. Our founders were not perfect, but they were wise and knew the downfall of every society was a tyrannical government so they did what they could in our founding documents to prevent that from happening. But humans are flawed and power corrupts.

That said, our government is NOT tyrannical against it's citizens. Not even close. Implying such requires some perspective of the world and it's history. What other country in the world do citizens and legal residents have as much individual liberty and chance at prosperity as we do in America?
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:30 pm

Agreed....We are among the freest, if not the freest, nation the world has ever known. No other nation has as strong of a constitution as us


We must do our best to safeguard it. The world is a crazy place right now with gov’ts taking away freedoms in the name of social justice.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:31 pm

Indeed, DN.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:32 pm

DreadNaught wrote: What other country in the world do citizens and legal residents have as much individual liberty and chance at prosperity as we do in America?

Heritage Foundation says we're 18th.

1. Hong Kong
2. Singapore
3. New Zealand
4. Switzerland
5. Austrailia
6. Ireland
7. Estonia
8. UK
9. Canada
10. UAE
11. Iceland
12. Denmark
13. Taiwan
14. Luxumbourg
15. Sweden
16. Georgia
17. Netherlands
18. United States
19. Lithuania
20. Chile

Edit:Link.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:36 pm

That’s economic freedom only

And I doubt you of all people actually want us to be higher on their index. I do though.


So let’s do better .... let’s vastly reduce the size of gov’t, increase propert rights and lower taxes. I’m all for it!!
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:41 pm

31st on the World Democracy index

29th in Press freedom index

25th on the Index of Economic Freedom

23rd on the Freedom of the world index

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:48 pm

What other countries have our absolute right to free speech? Coupled with the rest of our guarantees in the 1st amendment?

What other country has the right to bear arms like we do?


What other nations have 4th amendment protections like we do?



You can use as many of those rankings as you want that measure “freedom” very differently then we have generally done in the US. I’ll take our constitutional guarantees over any of them
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:49 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:What other countries have our absolute right to free speech? Coupled with the rest of our guarantees in the 1st amendment?

What other country has the right to bear arms like we do?


What other nations have 4th amendment protections like we do?



You can use as many of those rankings as you want that measure “freedom” very differently then we have generally done in the US. I’ll take our constitutional guarantees over any of them

I'm just sharing what's out there. Draw whatever conclusions you like.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:52 pm

I just did :)


And I’ll keep fighting for protections and advances to individual liberties.

And I’m glad we have a SCOTUS that does now too
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:06 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Buc2 wrote:It's a commentary by Splinter senior writer Hamilton Nolan. Here's the link...
https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-t ... 1827099100

It's also linked in my post above.


Ok thx




Personally I think the only time violence is justified is when you have a government that is tyrannical over its people.


Our govt is shitty but by no means tyrannical.


Violence is and should be a last resort. But I'll be damned if it isn't an effective one.
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