Justice vs Social Justice

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Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Jonny » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:23 pm

The following video has a beautiful explanation of the dangers and injustice related to aiming for equality in outcomes. While some or most resident left wingers on this board may say they are against equality of outcomes, quite often they have a tendency to claim systemic racism or sexism when disparities in outcomes exist.



The presenter is Jonathan Haidt, a professor of Psychology in NYU. His book "The Righteous Mind" is as good a book as anything gets in the realm of political psychology.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:47 pm

Transphobic, sexist, racist cisgender white male POS.

I'm triggered
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Thank you for the 100 level undergraduate lecture.

I love reminiscing about learning about logical fallacies.

Did they not teach you this in college?
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:34 pm

Let me help you out.

You posted this lecture because it fits your ad populum appeal to the opinion that social justice warriors are unhinged lunatics. If it were an unpopular opinion here, why post it, amirite?

Second, you appeal to authority by posting the professor's credentials to lend credence to your assertion that SJWs are unhinged lunatics which compels the viewer to agree with your assessment before they ever click play, Which leads me back to your hasty generalization fallacy that all SJWs, and by extension, social justice in particular, is nothing more than unhinged lunacy because some social justice advocates happen to be unhinged lunatics.

Now that we have that sorted out, we can talk about the lecture itself that you apparently did not listen to. He specifically states that unequal outcomes require the social scientist to look more closely at the data before drawing the conclusion. Don't believe me? Watch from 7:18 to 7:50.

Finally, your assumption on inequality of outcome assumes equality of opportunity. That is called a just world fallacy and the reason why we have social justice warriors in the first place. Your professor repeatedly stated he made no such assumptions and in his lecture is arguing that the SJW arm themselves with facts before making an assumption based on faulty logic. Even his Venn diagram shows the importance of social justice as being an important part of justice in society.

Have fun back at the drawing board.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:10 am

I agree with you, MB. Just because you might be a hard-core SJW IPer does not necessarily mean you are also an unhinged lunatic.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:15 am

Jonny wrote:The following video has a beautiful explanation of the dangers and injustice related to aiming for equality in outcomes. While some or most resident left wingers on this board may say they are against equality of outcomes, quite often they have a tendency to claim systemic racism or sexism when disparities in outcomes exist.



The presenter is Jonathan Haidt, a professor of Psychology in NYU. His book "The Righteous Mind" is as good a book as anything gets in the realm of political psychology.


Left-wingers always say that. They’ll say they are firmly opposed to equality of outcome and quotas but we all know this isn’t true.

Diversity is more important to the Left than safety. We need more minority air-craft controllers say the Left, so standards be damned. If there is an accident because of it, well, that’s just the price you have to pay for progress.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:54 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Let me help you out.

You posted this lecture because it fits your ad populum appeal to the opinion that social justice warriors are unhinged lunatics. If it were an unpopular opinion here, why post it, amirite?

Second, you appeal to authority by posting the professor's credentials to lend credence to your assertion that SJWs are unhinged lunatics which compels the viewer to agree with your assessment before they ever click play, Which leads me back to your hasty generalization fallacy that all SJWs, and by extension, social justice in particular, is nothing more than unhinged lunacy because some social justice advocates happen to be unhinged lunatics.

Now that we have that sorted out, we can talk about the lecture itself that you apparently did not listen to. He specifically states that unequal outcomes require the social scientist to look more closely at the data before drawing the conclusion. Don't believe me? Watch from 7:18 to 7:50.

Finally, your assumption on inequality of outcome assumes equality of opportunity. That is called a just world fallacy and the reason why we have social justice warriors in the first place. Your professor repeatedly stated he made no such assumptions and in his lecture is arguing that the SJW arm themselves with facts before making an assumption based on faulty logic. Even his Venn diagram shows the importance of social justice as being an important part of justice in society.

Have fun back at the drawing board.


Way to throw up a straw man and then attack it MB. That is the type of lazy approach to a discussion we expect from a different poster around here.

I think most people agree the social justice is good providing it falls within the boundary of actual JUSTICE. The great thing about justice is the it doesn't require a qualifier. Justice is just justice, whether it's social, economic, or otherwise.

As this video points out social justice can fall outside the bounds of justice and we should be able to identify and discuss it.

There were some areas of legit critique in this video I'll share later that get to what I feel is the root of why we have some of these inequalities in American society.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:26 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Let me help you out.

You posted this lecture because it fits your ad populum appeal to the opinion that social justice warriors are unhinged lunatics. If it were an unpopular opinion here, why post it, amirite?

Second, you appeal to authority by posting the professor's credentials to lend credence to your assertion that SJWs are unhinged lunatics which compels the viewer to agree with your assessment before they ever click play, Which leads me back to your hasty generalization fallacy that all SJWs, and by extension, social justice in particular, is nothing more than unhinged lunacy because some social justice advocates happen to be unhinged lunatics.

Now that we have that sorted out, we can talk about the lecture itself that you apparently did not listen to. He specifically states that unequal outcomes require the social scientist to look more closely at the data before drawing the conclusion. Don't believe me? Watch from 7:18 to 7:50.

Finally, your assumption on inequality of outcome assumes equality of opportunity. That is called a just world fallacy and the reason why we have social justice warriors in the first place. Your professor repeatedly stated he made no such assumptions and in his lecture is arguing that the SJW arm themselves with facts before making an assumption based on faulty logic. Even his Venn diagram shows the importance of social justice as being an important part of justice in society.

Have fun back at the drawing board.


Way to throw up a straw man and then attack it MB. That is the type of lazy approach to a discussion we expect from a different poster around here.

I think most people agree the social justice is good providing it falls within the boundary of actual JUSTICE. The great thing about justice is the it doesn't require a qualifier. Justice is just justice, whether it's social, economic, or otherwise.

As this video points out social justice can fall outside the bounds of justice and we should be able to identify and discuss it.

There were some areas of legit critique in this video I'll share later that get to what I feel is the root of why we have some of these inequalities in American society.

I said repeatedly the prof. In the video gave a good lecture that I agree with. It was Jonnys presentation and conclusions I took issue with.

It's not my fault he's lousy at critiquing the left.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:14 am

What presentation are you referring to?

Jonny posted a video that you agree with. Presumably he agrees with it to otherwise he wouldn’t have made a thread and posted it.

The video clearly shows that often times Social Justice can be a good thing. Just as it shows often times it is subversive. It seems you both agree on this critique of progressives


Are you talking about comments he made in a different thread?
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:34 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Way to throw up a straw man and then attack it MB. That is the type of lazy approach to a discussion we expect from a different poster around here.

I think most people agree the social justice is good providing it falls within the boundary of actual JUSTICE. The great thing about justice is the it doesn't require a qualifier. Justice is just justice, whether it's social, economic, or otherwise.

As this video points out social justice can fall outside the bounds of justice and we should be able to identify and discuss it.

There were some areas of legit critique in this video I'll share later that get to what I feel is the root of why we have some of these inequalities in American society.

I said repeatedly the prof. In the video gave a good lecture that I agree with. It was Jonnys presentation and conclusions I took issue with.

It's not my fault he's lousy at critiquing the left.


Fair enough. I didn't take Jonny's words/presentation as an indictment on the entire left. Perhaps it goes back to this bigotry of low expectations to where whenever someone mentions a 'group' whether it be the the right, left, SJWs, etc there is a tendency to cite the most extreme and/or worst examples of that particular group in some type of 'guilt by association' of the entire group so we can claim victimhood or place that persons idea into a box that doesn't deserve to be listened to. Some examples would be that some white people on the right are racist so thus anyone that says they are conservative or Republican are also racist. Or that since Jihadists are Muslim than all Muslims are violent extremists. These are lazy and disingenuous arguments that unfortunately are prevalent in today's discourse.

My critique of it would be around the part he speaks about the 'violation rates' of blacks and latinos vs white and Asains. I'd imagine a counter to that statement could be that blacks and latinos are policed more strictly and therefore caught at higher rate and that whites and Asians still commit the same crimes at the same rates. I don't necessarily agree with that, but assuming it was true I still don't believe it boils to race. I think it comes down to economics. Statistics have shown throughout the history of the world that crime occurs at a higher rate in lower income areas regardless of the demographic of residents. Add in other variables the presenter cited like fatherless homes and increased crime rates in certain areas are easily understandable.

Anyways, Jonny presentation aside, I thought it was good video that easily explains the potential hazards of social justice and how people can identify both the good and the bad.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Jonny » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:29 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Let me help you out.

You posted this lecture because it fits your ad populum appeal to the opinion that social justice warriors are unhinged lunatics. If it were an unpopular opinion here, why post it, amirite?

Second, you appeal to authority by posting the professor's credentials to lend credence to your assertion that SJWs are unhinged lunatics which compels the viewer to agree with your assessment before they ever click play, Which leads me back to your hasty generalization fallacy that all SJWs, and by extension, social justice in particular, is nothing more than unhinged lunacy because some social justice advocates happen to be unhinged lunatics.

Now that we have that sorted out, we can talk about the lecture itself that you apparently did not listen to. He specifically states that unequal outcomes require the social scientist to look more closely at the data before drawing the conclusion. Don't believe me? Watch from 7:18 to 7:50.

Finally, your assumption on inequality of outcome assumes equality of opportunity. That is called a just world fallacy and the reason why we have social justice warriors in the first place. Your professor repeatedly stated he made no such assumptions and in his lecture is arguing that the SJW arm themselves with facts before making an assumption based on faulty logic. Even his Venn diagram shows the importance of social justice as being an important part of justice in society.

Have fun back at the drawing board.


MB, you got it completely wrong. The intent of mine in posting this video and starting this thread is to critique social justice. SJWs are unhinged lunatics, that is a given, they are the loud and violent extremists. I am saying that even those who aren't SJWs, such as moderate left wingers will have a tendency to link correlation to causation. For example the fact that women are underrepresented in sciences and tech. It is rare for someone that considers themselves a capital D Democrat to concede that that particular disparity may simply be because of where the interests of women and men lie in choosing a field for career.

It is near impossible to acquire evidence that it is social conditioning for such differences, and yet, the lack of evidence does not deter those who want to believe this narrative.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby mightyleemoon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:43 am

Jonny wrote:SJWs are unhinged lunatics, that is a given, they are the loud and violent extremists.


That's not even close to true.

Some of them are. Absolutely. But, no more so than the percentage of all human beings that are unhinged, loud, and violent.

Also, I think it's cute that people think only the left has SJWs.

If one Christian is obliged to make a cake for a paying customer they disagree with, right wing SJWs come flying out of the wood work about how unfair that cake maker has it.

That situation turns into a SJW Right v Left cage match.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:45 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
Jonny wrote:SJWs are unhinged lunatics, that is a given, they are the loud and violent extremists.


That's not even close to true.

Some of them are. Absolutely. But, no more so than the percentage of all human beings that are unhinged, loud, and violent.

Also, I think it's cute that people think only the left has SJWs.

If one Christian is obliged to make a cake for a paying customer they disagree with, right wing SJWs come flying out of the wood work about how unfair that cake maker has it.

That situation turns into a SJW Right v Left cage match.


Sounds like your definition of SJW is different from Jonny's.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:45 am

Jonny wrote: SJWs are unhinged lunatics, that is a given, they are the loud and violent extremists. I am saying that even those who aren't SJWs, such as moderate left wingers will have a tendency to link correlation to causation.


Not all of them. You're citing the worst examples and applying that premise to the entire group. There are those that fight for social justice within the bounds of justice. Society and specifically disenfranchised groups need those people so that opportunities and treatment are equal for everyone.

But as the video does a great job of pointing out, there is a fallacy with social justice when it operates outside the bounds of justice and people need to be able to identify and call it out b/c it's actually committing injustice at that point. I think the unhinged SJWs you're referring to predominately operate in that space of injustice.

I just do think it's fair, nor a good tactic to convince anyone of anything by calling anyone fighting for social justice an unhinged lunatic. I certainly don't feel that way and I'm in no way the biggest advocate of some the practices of SJWs. But they are doing what they feel is right, and as long as they operate withing the bounds of justice and the law, more power to them. We don't have to like or agree with something to support a persons/group right to act.

My biggest critique of certain SJW behavior is their attempts to silence opinions and speakers they disagree with while not being willing to engage in discussion on their issue. The fringe SJWs just want to shout and it's super annoying and unproductive imo.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:46 am

OMG, I just kinda agreed w/ moon on something.

Dammit!
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Jonny » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 am

Zarniwoop wrote:What presentation are you referring to?

Jonny posted a video that you agree with. Presumably he agrees with it to otherwise he wouldn’t have made a thread and posted it.

The video clearly shows that often times Social Justice can be a good thing. Just as it shows often times it is subversive. It seems you both agree on this critique of progressives


Are you talking about comments he made in a different thread?


I actually do not think social justice can ever be a good thing. The overlap of social justice and justice that Haidt talks about is simply his take on this matter. To me there is justice and lack of it. Social justice only makes its presence known to all of us libertarian minded people when we see that its means and ends are going against justice. In cases it does not, it simply becomes a matter of all of us fighting for equality of opportunity aka justice.

I think you would find this link a very interesting read, and hope you get time to read it all. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/hutchison/130711
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 am

When I think of SJW, I think of someone who constantly starts or gets into battles via internet or in person making extreme points to try to win an argument sounding like idiots. People who are arguing for rights, such as the cake defenders, are not SJW in my opinion. SJW are the extreme version of people who go too far in trying to defend views such as feminism, civil rights, etc. To earn a SJW moniker, you have to be unhinged, IMO. In fact most people associate SJW with extreme progressive liberals...so it's important we clarify what we are talking about here.

edit: I don't know that anyone on this board would earn the SJW title in my opinion....maybe babe in some instances...
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby mightyleemoon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:51 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
mightyleemoon wrote:
That's not even close to true.

Some of them are. Absolutely. But, no more so than the percentage of all human beings that are unhinged, loud, and violent.

Also, I think it's cute that people think only the left has SJWs.

If one Christian is obliged to make a cake for a paying customer they disagree with, right wing SJWs come flying out of the wood work about how unfair that cake maker has it.

That situation turns into a SJW Right v Left cage match.


Sounds like your definition of SJW is different from Jonny's.


I think if he slows down and thinks it through he'll agree that there are plenty of SJW types that use civility to pursue change.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:52 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Sounds like your definition of SJW is different from Jonny's.


I think if he slows down and thinks it through he'll agree that there are plenty of SJW types that use civility to pursue change.

Again, it's semantics of what you call or label SJWs.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby mightyleemoon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:53 am

uscbucsfan wrote:When I think of SJW, I think of someone who constantly starts or gets into battles via internet or in person making extreme points to try to win an argument sounding like idiots. People who are arguing for rights, such as the cake defenders, are not SJW in my opinion. SJW are the extreme version of people who go too far in trying to defend views such as feminism, civil rights, etc. To earn a SJW moniker, you have to be unhinged, IMO. In fact most people associate SJW with extreme progressive liberals...so it's important we clarify what we are talking about here.

edit: I don't know that anyone on this board would earn the SJW title in my opinion....maybe babe in some instances...


I guess we'll have to start using the term xSJW then...or something.

I mean, if soda can have an Xtreme version, why can't SJWs?
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:56 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:When I think of SJW, I think of someone who constantly starts or gets into battles via internet or in person making extreme points to try to win an argument sounding like idiots. People who are arguing for rights, such as the cake defenders, are not SJW in my opinion. SJW are the extreme version of people who go too far in trying to defend views such as feminism, civil rights, etc. To earn a SJW moniker, you have to be unhinged, IMO. In fact most people associate SJW with extreme progressive liberals...so it's important we clarify what we are talking about here.

edit: I don't know that anyone on this board would earn the SJW title in my opinion....maybe babe in some instances...


I guess we'll have to start using the term xSJW then...or something.

I mean, if soda can have an Xtreme version, why can't SJWs?

lol.

I get what you are saying, though. That's just how the term has always been defined in my eyes through late night stand up, it's origin in social media, or print. Much like Snowflake, it's been used as an insult in such as way that the meaning has been lost.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:01 pm

Jonny wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:What presentation are you referring to?

Jonny posted a video that you agree with. Presumably he agrees with it to otherwise he wouldn’t have made a thread and posted it.

The video clearly shows that often times Social Justice can be a good thing. Just as it shows often times it is subversive. It seems you both agree on this critique of progressives


Are you talking about comments he made in a different thread?


I actually do not think social justice can ever be a good thing. The overlap of social justice and justice that Haidt talks about is simply his take on this matter. To me there is justice and lack of it. Social justice only makes its presence known to all of us libertarian minded people when we see that its means and ends are going against justice. In cases it does not, it simply becomes a matter of all of us fighting for equality of opportunity aka justice.

I think you would find this link a very interesting read, and hope you get time to read it all. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/hutchison/130711


I think there is good argument that since social justice should operate with the boundary of justice there is no need for a qualifier like 'social'. But it's semantics at that point and if it's justice of a social cause the name social justice is and apt description.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:04 pm

Jonny wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:What presentation are you referring to?

Jonny posted a video that you agree with. Presumably he agrees with it to otherwise he wouldn’t have made a thread and posted it.

The video clearly shows that often times Social Justice can be a good thing. Just as it shows often times it is subversive. It seems you both agree on this critique of progressives


Are you talking about comments he made in a different thread?


I actually do not think social justice can ever be a good thing. The overlap of social justice and justice that Haidt talks about is simply his take on this matter. To me there is justice and lack of it. Social justice only makes its presence known to all of us libertarian minded people when we see that its means and ends are going against justice. In cases it does not, it simply becomes a matter of all of us fighting for equality of opportunity aka justice.

I think you would find this link a very interesting read, and hope you get time to read it all. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/hutchison/130711


As others have said, I think it comes down to how you define Social Justice and the role of group versus individual...knowing that at some point the in between gets tricky because groups are made up of individuals obviously.

If we use group data and group analysis to find denial of liberty to individuals I'm all for it...and I think that falls into the realm of social justice.

If we use group data to take away liberty from individuals I'm completely against it.

Sadly all too often I think the most common application is the latter.



-------------------------

Thanks for the link...we had a good discussion a couple months ago (?) on natural rights. Maybe you can start another if you like. I would certainly partake.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Jonny » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:06 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Jonny wrote: SJWs are unhinged lunatics, that is a given, they are the loud and violent extremists. I am saying that even those who aren't SJWs, such as moderate left wingers will have a tendency to link correlation to causation.


Not all of them. You're citing the worst examples and applying that premise to the entire group. There are those that fight for social justice within the bounds of justice. Society and specifically disenfranchised groups need those people so that opportunities and treatment are equal for everyone.

But as the video does a great job of pointing out, there is a fallacy with social justice when it operates outside the bounds of justice and people need to be able to identify and call it out b/c it's actually committing injustice at that point. I think the unhinged SJWs you're referring to predominately operate in that space of injustice.

I just do think it's fair, nor a good tactic to convince anyone of anything by calling anyone fighting for social justice an unhinged lunatic. I certainly don't feel that way and I'm in no way the biggest advocate of some the practices of SJWs. But they are doing what they feel is right, and as long as they operate withing the bounds of justice and the law, more power to them. We don't have to like or agree with something to support a persons/group right to act.

My biggest critique of certain SJW behavior is their attempts to silence opinions and speakers they disagree with while not being willing to engage in discussion on their issue. The fringe SJWs just want to shout and it's super annoying and unproductive imo.


You understand what the term SJW implies right? W stands for warrior. There are a **** ton of people that talk about social justice, but the title warrior is given to those unhinged lunatics. Thus all SJWs are unhinged lunatics.

Also I don't think you actually understand the concept of social justice deep enough. Can you tell me what, for you, qualifies as reasonable form of social justice? I would argue that it is actually more libertarian to fight for any form of equality of opportunity. Again, this overlap the presenter talks about is his take. Like I said in my previous post, if you are fighting for what is fair, you are not advocating for social justice, but rather for justice itself. Things like affirmative action however are unfair, and that is where the core of social justice philosophy lies. John Rawls is a great contributor to social justice philosophy, and everything he advocates for involves taking something away from those who rightfully earned it.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:06 pm

Take your pick...

Social Justice Warrior

PC version:
Social justice warrior (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics. The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that they are pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and engaging in disingenuous arguments.


Non-PC version:
A person who uses the fight for civil rights as an excuse to be rude, condescending, and sometimes violent for the purpose of relieving their frustrations or validating their sense of unwarranted moral superiority. The behaviors of Social justice warriors usually have a negative impact on the civil rights movement, turning away potential allies and fueling the resurgence of bigoted groups that scoop up people who have been burned or turned off by social justice warriors.

If social justice warriors would just **** off, we could actually make some progress.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby mightyleemoon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:15 pm

Jonny wrote:You understand what the term SJW implies right? W stands for warrior.


lol. Yea. And nobody has ever used the word "Warrior" in a hyperbolic way.

I mean, unless you agree with people who consider good chess players to be warriors.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby mightyleemoon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:17 pm

How about we stop mincing words and call these people what they really are....

Social Justice TERRORISTS
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:19 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:How about we stop mincing words and call these people what they really are....

Social Justice TERRORISTS

I'm game.
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:49 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:How about we stop mincing words and call these people what they really are....

Social Justice TERRORISTS

:lol:
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Re: Justice vs Social Justice

Postby Rocker » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm

Buc2 wrote:Take your pick...

Social Justice Warrior

PC version:
Social justice warrior (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics. The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that they are pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and engaging in disingenuous arguments.


Non-PC version:
A person who uses the fight for civil rights as an excuse to be rude, condescending, and sometimes violent for the purpose of relieving their frustrations or validating their sense of unwarranted moral superiority. The behaviors of Social justice warriors usually have a negative impact on the civil rights movement, turning away potential allies and fueling the resurgence of bigoted groups that scoop up people who have been burned or turned off by social justice warriors.

If social justice warriors would just **** off, we could actually make some progress.



While I think/hope that people that describe them self as a SJW would say they belong in the PC definition group, most of what I’ve personally seen and read would definitely fall under the second definition.
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