Can we agree? Episode 6

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Would you like to reign in Presidential tariff power?

Yes
8
89%
No
1
11%
 
Total votes : 9

Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:59 am

This week's topic: tariffs.



So Trump has been sabre rattling quite a bit recently about tariffs he has either implemented, proposed or is thinking about.

Normally the president does not have the executive authority to implement tariffs...but Trump (and previous presidents) have raised tariffs on our allies under this guise of national security. There are several bills that were passed between 1920 and 1980 that created this scenario. The first bills often placed a time limit (such as 150 days) on the tariffs with the theory that by that time congress would have time to meet and actually craft their own bill....after all the power to levy taxes and tariffs is the responsibility of congress. Over time though, presidents have gotten around the time limits and now the power is basically unconditional -- there is no time mechanism that Trump or future presidents have to follow and as far as I know, there is no standard they have to meet to demonstrate the tariff will actually improve national security.



So my question -- are you happy with congress basically punting this responsibility to the president? OR would you rather see this executive power reeled in (and there would be many ways to do this...not just one in particular)?
Last edited by Zarniwoop on Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby NYBF » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:17 am

I was hoping this was going to be about lemonade stand permits.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:18 am

NYBF wrote:I was hoping this was going to be about lemonade stand permits.




I actually don't think we would agree on that :lol:
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:46 am

I can understand the national security need for tariffs on Canada, what with them burning down the White House and all.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby Cheb » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:27 pm

In general I think that the office of the President has gotten too powerful. Presidents over time keep acquiring more power, and that power is never relinquished once it is gained.

The thing is reforming Presidential power will never happen. The party of the President is cool with it because he's their guy and presumably on their side. The party who doesn't occupy the presidency will cry foul at the abuse of presidential power, then promptly shut up when their side retakes the office.

No matter your political persuasion, I think that most can see that over time the office of the President is becoming stronger. This leads to wild swinging from one side of the aisle to the other every Presidential cycle, and it seems to be swinging further from a moderate center each time. It makes dealing with the US dealing with an irrational actor.

This is just an example of that. Unilaterally imposing tariffs allows the President to drastically change US policy at the drop of a hat. The President can skyrocket the tariffs on whatever product or material strikes his fancy without preprocussion or external checks. This is a power that can obviously be abused for personal gain, but more importantly it can torpedo international relations and poison domestic trade in a heartbeat.

Trade and tariff policy should be cautiously considered by serious, well-educated people in business suits after a week long summit of boorish meetings, at the end of which a comprehensive long-term plan is submitted for government approval. These kinds of decisions shouldn't be ragetweeted from the shitter at 5am.

Like Trump or hate him, this is a bad precedent.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:35 pm

Cheb wrote:In general I think that the office of the President has gotten too powerful. Presidents over time keep acquiring more power, and that power is never relinquished once it is gained.

The thing is reforming Presidential power will never happen. The party of the President is cool with it because he's their guy and presumably on their side. The party who doesn't occupy the presidency will cry foul at the abuse of presidential power, then promptly shut up when their side retakes the office.

No matter your political persuasion, I think that most can see that over time the office of the President is becoming stronger. This leads to wild swinging from one side of the aisle to the other every Presidential cycle, and it seems to be swinging further from a moderate center each time. It makes dealing with the US dealing with an irrational actor.

This is just an example of that. Unilaterally imposing tariffs allows the President to drastically change US policy at the drop of a hat. The President can skyrocket the tariffs on whatever product or material strikes his fancy without preprocussion or external checks. This is a power that can obviously be abused for personal gain, but more importantly it can torpedo international relations and poison domestic trade in a heartbeat.

Trade and tariff policy should be cautiously considered by serious, well-educated people in business suits after a week long summit of boorish meetings, at the end of which a comprehensive long-term plan is submitted for government approval. These kinds of decisions shouldn't be ragetweeted from the shitter at 5am.

Like Trump or hate him, this is a bad precedent.




I agree that reform is unlikely given the current climate of politics....but I don't blame our elected officials...I blame us for electing them. If we demanded that Congress takes their power back (whether it be tariffs, war, etc) and only elected people who promised to do so...and kicked them out if they didn't it would change. Same with voting for presidents who grab power. Every single one in my lifetime has grabbed more power then the guy before him.

But I see very few voters on either side who want to weaken the power of the executive (I count just a couple on this site who generally call out abuses of power). Most people are happy when their guy passes stuff instead of having congress do it because its easier and quicker.

This extends to government in general. I would say the same thing when Congress abuses their power. Very few people call them on it. People just get all riled up in "change" and completely disregard our governmental mechanism because it is too slow and limited in their minds.
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:38 pm

We got a no vote?
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Re: Can we agree? Episode 6

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:36 pm

bucfanclw wrote:We got a no vote?

Surely to God someone read the OP and just answered the question about being happy with Congress letting the President do this....
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