Entitlements Discussion

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Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:47 am

Social Security now has 2.8 workers per beneficiary...the lowest ratio ever...and it will continue to decrease.

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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:58 am

Apparently there's replicator gun...if we can get it away from the 14 year old girl, we're golden.

Seriously, I thought we had a thread/discussion/HUGE bitch session about this, no?
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:01 am

If we are starting fresh, I think it's important for the OP to state his definition of "entitlements". I recall a rift in what various ideological warriors define as such.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:04 am

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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:08 am

uscbucsfan wrote:Apparently there's replicator gun...if we can get it away from the 14 year old girl, we're golden.

Seriously, I thought we had a thread/discussion/HUGE bitch session about this, no?



I'm sure we have talked about it...but since we really only have one big active thread, stuff seems to get lost in my wee brain....I've been trying to create more focused threads...if they catch on great...if not, so be it. Let the Market speak!!!! :P (the next one is going to be a doozie)


As for entitlements, I define them just like I think everyone does....SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Foodstamps, etc. Any program that people have a legal right to if they meet certain qualifications. I'm pretty sure the Gov't uses this same definition
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:12 am

All the more reason to "pop the cap" to ensure the program is funded.

We're about 6-7 years away from having the entirety of the boomers on the program and are pretty close to the peak. The boom began slowing drastically in 1958-59. Boomers will start dying off in large numbers when they hit the average life expectancy of roughly 79 years old starting in 2024.

Jokes about execution aside, that entire generation lived and worked with the expectation that the program will be there for them when it was time. As much as it would be poetic justice to cut their benefits, congress should do what it can to fund SS until the population stabilizes.

By the time Generation X hits the program in 2040, the system should be quite stable. The oldest boomers will be in their mid-90's by then.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:16 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:All the more reason to "pop the cap" to ensure the program is funded.


As you know I agree with you on this.





Mountaineer Buc wrote:
By the time Generation X hits the program in 2040, the system should be quite stable.



If you have numbers for this, I'd love to see them....I'd love to share that optimism!

Current birthrates are declining now and have done for quite some time. Millenial birthrate spiked about 20 years ago....I think we have been downhill since then.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Stuart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:21 am

how is SS an entitlement when I pay into it?

much less when someone kicks not all of it goes to the spouse. with that kind of overlap, how badly can this thing be run?
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:21 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:All the more reason to "pop the cap" to ensure the program is funded.


As you know I agree with you on this.





Mountaineer Buc wrote:
By the time Generation X hits the program in 2040, the system should be quite stable.



If you have numbers for this, I'd love to see them....I'd love to share that optimism!

Current birthrates are declining now and have done for quite some time. Millenial birthrate spiked about 20 years ago....I think we have been downhill since then.

I'm going on 2 assumptions.

One is that the Millenials by headcount are larger than the Boomers today and are entering their peak earning years.

Two is that Gen-X is quite smaller than both the Boomers and the Millenials giving the system a bit of a break.

I also expect the Millenials to do some broad changes to government when they take over in the next 20-30 years. Whether or not they preserve SS or not during that time will be up to them. I honestly would not be surprised if they dismantle it someday in favor of something else like a UBI or some other strategy as most Millenials think the program is doomed to not be there for them anyway. That's an assumption the Boomers do not have.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:23 am

Stuart wrote:how is SS an entitlement when I pay into it?

much less when someone kicks not all of it goes to the spouse. with that kind of overlap, how badly can this thing be run?



SS is a tax. your money doesn't go into a savings account for you. The money you get when you retire will come from a tax on the workforce at that time.


as for questions 2 -- I will wholeheartedly agree there is great waste in SS, but the primary reason we are running out of money is simply #'s. In 1950 15 workers were paying for every retiree. Now it is 2.8.

Even with an incredibly efficient system of no-waste, that # isn't sustainable at the current payout levels and retirement age.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Stuart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:33 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
Stuart wrote:how is SS an entitlement when I pay into it?

much less when someone kicks not all of it goes to the spouse. with that kind of overlap, how badly can this thing be run?



SS is a tax. your money doesn't go into a savings account for you. The money you get when you retire will come from a tax on the workforce at that time.


as for questions 2 -- I will wholeheartedly agree there is great waste in SS, but the primary reason we are running out of money is simply #'s. In 1950 15 workers were paying for every retiree. Now it is 2.8.

Even with an incredibly efficient system of no-waste, that # isn't sustainable at the current payout levels and retirement age.


thank you.

they should change the statement they send me yearly from an estimated payout to "good f**king luck with that"
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Deuce » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am

My girlfriend got a retirement packet from her job the other day that had current SS levels built in to "What you'll need at retirement". I was pretty shocked at that. I've begun (saying begun because I'm 29) saving for retirement with the idea that I'll get nothing, so I'd be pleasantly surprised with anything.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:14 am

Deuce wrote:My girlfriend got a retirement packet from her job the other day that had current SS levels built in to "What you'll need at retirement". I was pretty shocked at that. I've begun (saying begun because I'm 29) saving for retirement with the idea that I'll get nothing, so I'd be pleasantly surprised with anything.



We all will get something...it might not be as much as people are getting now...but even when those awful republicans talk about eliminating SS, the plans always had a grandfather clause built it for people who had started paying in.

Not to mention...aren't the Millenials all about empathy and social justice? Surely they would be willing to pay higher taxes not to screw over their parents and grandparents right?



All kidding aside...I can't see a time where we don't have some form of Social Security/ Retirement plan for the elderly. Maybe even as MB said, we have a UBI
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Deuce » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:30 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
Deuce wrote:My girlfriend got a retirement packet from her job the other day that had current SS levels built in to "What you'll need at retirement". I was pretty shocked at that. I've begun (saying begun because I'm 29) saving for retirement with the idea that I'll get nothing, so I'd be pleasantly surprised with anything.



We all will get something...it might not be as much as people are getting now...but even when those awful republicans talk about eliminating SS, the plans always had a grandfather clause built it for people who had started paying in.

Not to mention...aren't the Millenials all about empathy and social justice? Surely they would be willing to pay higher taxes not to screw over their parents and grandparents right?



All kidding aside...I can't see a time where we don't have some form of Social Security/ Retirement plan for the elderly. Maybe even as MB said, we have a UBI


Yeah, she was actually surprised to hear it when I told her that we will almost definitely get something, even if we're turning 70 and getting 50% of what it is now (just throwing random numbers out). A lot of Millenials have heard that the system can't last so it'll just go away.

Also, I'm not one of those empathy and social justice Millenials.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Stuart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:45 am

millenials have parents?
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:05 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Deuce wrote:My girlfriend got a retirement packet from her job the other day that had current SS levels built in to "What you'll need at retirement". I was pretty shocked at that. I've begun (saying begun because I'm 29) saving for retirement with the idea that I'll get nothing, so I'd be pleasantly surprised with anything.



We all will get something...it might not be as much as people are getting now...but even when those awful republicans talk about eliminating SS, the plans always had a grandfather clause built it for people who had started paying in.

Not to mention...aren't the Millenials all about empathy and social justice? Surely they would be willing to pay higher taxes not to screw over their parents and grandparents right?



All kidding aside...I can't see a time where we don't have some form of Social Security/ Retirement plan for the elderly. Maybe even as MB said, we have a UBI


We were until we grew up and realized what short-sighted self-centered bastards our parents are

“Ok everyone, on 3 say “**** the kids!!!””
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(Full disclosure I love my boomer parents)
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:09 pm

That’s something politicians have been doing for as I’ve been alive. **** the kids let’s spend more
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Stuart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:14 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

We all will get something...it might not be as much as people are getting now...but even when those awful republicans talk about eliminating SS, the plans always had a grandfather clause built it for people who had started paying in.

Not to mention...aren't the Millenials all about empathy and social justice? Surely they would be willing to pay higher taxes not to screw over their parents and grandparents right?



All kidding aside...I can't see a time where we don't have some form of Social Security/ Retirement plan for the elderly. Maybe even as MB said, we have a UBI


We were until we grew up and realized what short-sighted self-centered bastards our parents are

“Ok everyone, on 3 say “**** the kids!!!””
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(Full disclosure I love my boomer parents)


I have a 24 year old that feels a similar way. I just don't get why the boomers get blamed vs. the gubment.

I think every generation thinks the one before them had it easier....but the feeling was not as prevelant as what I hear now......whether it be guns, SS, healthcare.....the blame it on the boomers
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:26 pm

Boomers are partially to blame because over the last 30 or 40 years when we have known SS to be non sustainable because of their massive population versus the generation behind them they did nothing to address the problem through putting pressure on Washington to be rational. Indeed the Boomers, just like every other retired generation, will put pressure on elected officials to increase (or at least keep) payments


So far neither have the Xers or Millenials
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:27 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:That’s something politicians have been doing for as I’ve been alive. **** the kids let’s spend more


Lets see, Steve Winwood Higher love topped charts in 1986

1986 - 14 = 1976

Baby boomers started voting about 10 years before that. Sounds about right!
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:30 pm

Good math dipshit
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:30 pm

:P
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Stuart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:32 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Boomers are partially to blame because over the last 30 or 40 years when we have known SS to be non sustainable because of their massive population versus the generation behind them they did nothing to address the problem through putting pressure on Washington to be rational. Indeed the Boomers, just like every other retired generation, will put pressure on elected officials to increase (or at least keep) payments


So far neither have the Xers or Millenials



so should we blame the school shooting in the kids doing it? it never happened in my time
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:33 pm

Boomers getting hoodwinked by Reaganomics for 40 years certainly has a big role.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:36 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Boomers getting hoodwinked by Reaganomics for 40 years certainly has a big role.




Lol, don’t ever change!!
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:49 pm

It's not Logan's Run yet. So, yes, millennials have parents.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Betsy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:13 pm

My dad was born in 1922(1987) and mom in 1924(1998). So they both lived through the Great Depression.

One thing my dad taught me was not to count on anyone but yourself when it comes to money and don't buy it if you can't pay cash. Meaning don't live beyond your means.

I will retire when I'm 62, 2 and 1/2 years from now and start taking social security at that time. It won't be much, but like I said, I wasn't counting on it being there when I retired.

I'm counting on my 401K and other investments to let me live quite comfortably until I'm old and grey. If that ever happens.

What's that saying? If you can't touch, taste, see, smell or hear it, it doesn't exist.

Count on yourself.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:44 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Good math dipshit


LOL
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby Nano » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:57 pm

Hopefully, SS is still around and doing well...in 2060.


****.
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Re: Entitlements Discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:00 am

Betsy wrote:My dad was born in 1922(1987) and mom in 1924(1998). So they both lived through the Great Depression.

One thing my dad taught me was not to count on anyone but yourself when it comes to money and don't buy it if you can't pay cash. Meaning don't live beyond your means.

I will retire when I'm 62, 2 and 1/2 years from now and start taking social security at that time. It won't be much, but like I said, I wasn't counting on it being there when I retired.

I'm counting on my 401K and other investments to let me live quite comfortably until I'm old and grey. If that ever happens.

What's that saying? If you can't touch, taste, see, smell or hear it, it doesn't exist.

Count on yourself.



I hate how they dangle that better pay out at 66 1/2. I'm not waiting.
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