Donald Trump vs Iran

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Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Buc2 » Sat May 12, 2018 9:20 am

May as well start a thread on this too.

As we're all aware by now, Trump has decided to pull away from the deal Obama orchestrated with Iran without the backing of Congress. As we're also well aware by now, many folks don't like the idea of American's "colluding" with governments hostile to America. Put those two things together and we have this latest commentary concerning an American colluding with a government hostile to America...Iran.

Where’s the outrage over Kerry’s secret meetings on the Iran deal?
By Marc A. Thiessen May 11 at 11:40 AM

Democrats routinely express outrage over claims of collusion with a foreign power to undermine our democracy. So where is the outrage over revelations that former secretary of state John Kerry held not one but two secret meetings with Iran’s foreign minister to strategize over how to undermine President Trump’s plans to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal?

An Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman confirmed the meetings after the Boston Globe broke the news, declaring, “We don’t see the U.S. just as Mr. Trump; the United States is not just the current ruling administration.” Think about what this means. Iran is a terrorist state responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans in Iraq, whose leaders hold rallies where thousands chant “Death to America!” Kerry was working with a sworn enemy of the United States to try to undermine the foreign policy of the elected president of the United States.

I thought we didn’t like Americans who colluded with our enemies.

Kerry’s meetings with Iran’s leaders were not isolated incidents, but part of a formal lobbying campaign that included phone calls with European Union leaders and meetings with the presidents of Germany and France in which, the Globe reports, he discussed “the details of sanctions and regional nuclear threats in both French and English.”

On Twitter, Trump suggested that Kerry might have violated the Logan Act, which says: “Any citizen of the United States . . . who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government . . . with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government . . . in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.” In fact, no one has been prosecuted under the Logan Act in more than 160 years, and most conservative legal scholars consider it unconstitutional.

Although what Kerry did was probably not illegal, it was deeply hypocritical. Recall that in 2015, when Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) and 46 other Republicans wrote to Iran’s leaders informing them of the Senate’s constitutional role in approving international agreements, Kerry was incensed. “My reaction to the letter was utter disbelief,” he said at the time. “To write leaders in the middle of a negotiation . . . is quite stunning . . . [and] ignores more than two centuries of precedent in the conduct of American foreign policy,” Kerry said, adding that he would never have interfered in that way “no matter what the issue and no matter who was president.” What a difference three years make.

Cotton is a sitting United States senator. The Senate has a constitutional role in foreign policy. Kerry is a private citizen. He has a constitutional role in nothing.

Kerry’s defenders compare him to Henry Kissinger and other former secretaries of state who regularly meet with world leaders. “Secretary Kerry stays in touch with his former counterparts around the world, just like every previous Secretary of State,” a Kerry spokesman said. But Kissinger does not conduct rogue diplomacy. When he meets with foreign leaders, he usually coordinates with the White House, often carrying messages for the president, and then briefs administration officials afterward. Kerry did none of this.

This is not the first time Kerry has interfered in U.S. diplomacy as a private citizen. In 1970, he flew to Paris and met with the North Vietnamese while they were in the midst of negotiating the Paris Accords with Kissinger. Kerry admitted then that his actions were “on the borderline of private individuals negotiating.” What he did last month was not on the borderline.

Kerry would not have had to resort to rogue diplomacy if he had negotiated a better deal. The agreement he struck could not even muster the support of a simple majority in the Senate, much less the two-thirds majority needed to ratify a treaty. As Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) correctly points out, the Obama administration “made a bad deal with Iran without support from Congress. . . . American foreign policy makes lasting progress when it is led by the President, approved by Congress, and presented honestly to the American people.” Kerry has no one to blame but himself for Trump’s decision to withdraw. And he certainly has no business colluding with America’s enemies against America’s president.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat May 12, 2018 10:56 am

I heard this story. If Kerry is portraying he in any way is representing the US position it’s illegal and he should be brought up on charges. If he is there as a private citizen then he can knock himself out
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Ken Carson » Sat May 12, 2018 11:34 am

Zarniwoop wrote:I heard this story. If Kerry is portraying he in any way is representing the US position it’s illegal and he should be brought up on charges. If he is there as a private citizen then he can knock himself out

I’m sure the incoming tweet storm is not going to see it that way...
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby RedLeader » Sat May 12, 2018 11:41 am

Kerry hoping to become relevant again.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:I heard this story. If Kerry is portraying he in any way is representing the US position it’s illegal and he should be brought up on charges. If he is there as a private citizen then he can knock himself out

I’m sure the incoming tweet storm is not going to see it that way...



Honestly I have very little interest in Trumps tweets (about thisor even most things). I just care about what’s actually happening
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby DreadNaught » Sat May 12, 2018 12:47 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:I heard this story. If Kerry is portraying he in any way is representing the US position it’s illegal and he should be brought up on charges. If he is there as a private citizen then he can knock himself out

I’m sure the incoming tweet storm is not going to see it that way...


If Corsair was still around I'm sure he'd be calling for a Logan Act violation. I mean if an incoming administration official can't even discuss US policy with a foreign government weeks before officially taking office than how can it be ok for a former administration official to do so when they are a civilian?
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Alpha » Mon May 14, 2018 12:10 am

I have an idea.

My platform for running for President is to undo everything that the previous administration has done!

Who's with me!

Point is...these actions make us entirely unreliable as a partner to our allies. Countries we may need to assist us in the future.

I'm sure most of you don't foresee where this administration is taking us, as a country.

We couldn't possibly be more partisan than we currently are. This administration has completely done away the philosophy of "politics". There is no more, "compromise" because the Trumpster won't allow it. Many of you believe that to be a good thing. It isn't. And you will come to learn that, when the worm turns. When the "D's" gain control of both houses (and at some point, they will). When there is a "D" in the White House. As there will be, at some point. I've seen it several times over my lifetime.

Remember this administration, when everything you people LOVE now, is undone. When the majority has no back bone and allows the "president" that you despise, to act with ignorance and disgrace and impunity.

And when that day comes...and it WILL come...keep your mouths shut. The rest of us aren't going to say a damn thing but, "STFU and take it like a man".

Good luck, you spineless cowards...
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Ken Carson » Mon May 14, 2018 6:24 am

To Aloha’s point, that is the problem with foverninghu executive order. Bush and Obama did it rather than work with Congress and that means every major act of executive order is undone so easily. Obama went for a deal rather than a treaty, and the Orange One reneged.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:55 am

Just seeing this. Tweeted last week by Raman Ghavami. Had to look him up to see who he is.

Raman Ghavami is a Middle East analyst based in London and the Middle East. He has worked for various social and political organisations across the Middle East and Europe. He is currently working for a consultancy firm based in the United Kingdom with Insurgency and Counter-Insurgency focus. Ghavami holds an MA in International Relations.


Right now, I'm only seeing conservative new sites reporting on this, so not sure how much, if any, stock to put into it. Pretty interesting if true.

Raman Ghavami
@Raman_Ghavami
Follow Follow @Raman_Ghavami

H.J.Ansari Zarif’s senior advisor: “If Europeans stop trading with Iran and don’t put pressure on US then we will reveal which western politicians and how much money they had received during nuclear negotiations to make #IranDeal happen.”
That would be interesting.
#JCPOA

12:16 PM - 8 May 2018
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Caradoc » Wed May 16, 2018 11:33 am

Alpha wrote:
Your complete lack of self-awareness is staggering.


I have an idea.

My platform for running for President is to undo everything that the previous administration has done!

This is a juvenile and self-serving bit of nonsense that media loves to spew out, and whenever someone repeats it you can be certain they are incapable of forming their own opinions rather than just repeating what they have heard from those awesome media people.
Pro Tip - different administrations have different goals and ideas. Kind of like Obama abandoning Iraq to ISIS (because he hated Bush, amirite?)


Who's with me!

Point is...these actions make us entirely unreliable as a partner to our allies. Countries we may need to assist us in the future.

Actually, It was Obama who turned his back on long time allies and cost our international respect and trust With his lack of coherent foreign policy, imaginary red lines, unratified 'treaties', pivots, secret deals with terrorist sponsors, and reset buttons

I'm sure most of you don't foresee where this administration is taking us, as a country.

This administration is doing nothing out of the ordinary if you look at it's actions rather than the histrionic reactions of the MSM. The perception of the actions is way out of proportion to the reality. A tax cut isn't terrorism. A president negotiating with other countries isn't treason. Approving oil drilling and pipelines isn't killing the planet. Grab some perspective for fucks sake you sound like a teenage girl who's parents told her she couldn't go to the school dance. WORST PARENTSPRESIDENT EVAH!!!!

We couldn't possibly be more partisan than we currently are.

When one half of the country considers anyone who disagrees with any of their political beliefs to be Nazis, yeah, partisan behavior is likely
This administration has completely done away the philosophy of "politics".

By "this administration, I assume you mean the Obama administration, which turned govt bureaucracies into weapons against his political opponents and anyone else who disagreed with him. The reason so much of Obama's "legacy" can be undone is because he never followed the political process of making law in doing these things. Rather than use politics as you seem to want, he used executive orders, which do not have the same standing as actual law. He also didn't submit the Iran "Deal" to congress to ratify as a treaty, so it had absolutely zero standing in law.

There is no more, "compromise" because the Trumpster won't allow it.

Trump has offered compromise, (for example, on DACA) but the Democrats refused to budge.

Many of you believe that to be a good thing. It isn't. And you will come to learn that, when the worm turns. When the "D's" gain control of both houses (and at some point, they will). When there is a "D" in the White House. As there will be, at some point. I've seen it several times over my lifetime.

What is happening right now IS the worm turning. What is happening right now is a direct result of the actions and methods of the previous administration. Enjoy it.

Remember this administration, when everything you people LOVE now, is undone. When the majority has no back bone and allows the "president" that you despise, to act with ignorance and disgrace and impunity.

And when that day comes...and it WILL come...keep your mouths shut. The rest of us aren't going to say a damn thing but, "STFU and take it like a man".

LMAO. For the lest 8 years you and your Progressive friends were lording it over everyone else, cheering on Mr. "I don't need congress, I have a pen and a phone", the one thing you and the rest of the progs have shown is you are fundamentally incapable of shutting the **** up. So maybe you should try and take your own advice.

Good luck, you spineless cowards...

For a guy who calls himself Alpha, you sure whine like a Beta. Admit it, this is you:

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Last edited by Caradoc on Wed May 16, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Donald Trump vs Iran

Postby Stuart » Wed May 16, 2018 11:39 am

the above post should be stickied
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