Hate Speech / Free Speech

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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:50 pm

Free speech warrior, Jordan Peterson threatened to sue a professor and writer for calling parts of his book misogynistic.
Best-selling author Jordan Peterson first shot to fame by styling himself as a free-speech warrior at the University of Toronto, where he teaches psychology. Objecting to trans people’s requests that he use their preferred pronouns, Peterson said in 2016, “I don’t recognize another person’s right to determine what pronouns I use to address them.” Later, he told the BBC, “I’ve studied authoritarianism for a very long time — for 40 years — and they’re [sic] started by people’s attempts to control the ideological and linguistic territory.”

But Peterson’s affection for unbounded “linguistic territory” only goes so far, it seems. In June, he threatened to sue Down Girl author and Cornell University assistant professor Kate Manne for defamation, after she criticized his book, 12 Rules For Life, and more generally called his work misogynistic in an interview with Vox. (Peterson previously filed a lawsuit against a university whose faculty members, in a closed-door meeting, argued that showing his videos in a classroom created an unsafe environment for students.) In letters to Manne, Cornell, and Vox, Peterson’s lawyer, Howard Levitt, demanded that all three parties “immediately retract all of Professor Manne’s defamatory statements, have them immediately removed from the internet, and issue an apology in the same forum to Mr. Peterson. Otherwise, our client will take all steps necessary to protect his professional reputation, including but not limited to initiating legal proceedings against all of you for damages.”


Figures.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby The Outsider » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:16 pm

Ah yes, the ol "sue to have something removed from the internet" method. Shockingly ineffective, let's see how it works out for him.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:43 pm

well that's disappointing...and as Outsider said...will never work.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:15 pm

Most of the lawsuit reads like lawyer bullshit. But she did take an opportunity to imply that he “gaslit” one of his patients. As a professional practitioner, he absolutely has the right to challenge that characterization as it could be detrimental to his future ability to earn.

Just like if I wrote an article on how MB cheated his way through accounting school and was a liar. Especially if it was published as an expert piece in a noted publication. He would have every right to sue me for defamation.

Of course, that’s a naive way to look at things. He already published an essay disputing her article. Seems like he wants to flex his muscle and show the authoritarians that they aren’t the only ones who can use the government to shut people up. Not classy, San Diego.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby The Outsider » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:49 pm

Ken Carson wrote:Most of the lawsuit reads like lawyer bullshit. But she did take an opportunity to imply that he “gaslit” one of his patients. As a professional practitioner, he absolutely has the right to challenge that characterization as it could be detrimental to his future ability to earn.

Just like if I wrote an article on how MB cheated his way through accounting school and was a liar. Especially if it was published as an expert piece in a noted publication. He would have every right to sue me for defamation.

Of course, that’s a naive way to look at things. He already published an essay disputing her article. Seems like he wants to flex his muscle and show the authoritarians that they aren’t the only ones who can use the government to shut people up. Not classy, San Diego.



Yes! Teach the authoritarians a lesson by using authoritarian tactics against them! Brilliant!
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 am

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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:20 am

The European Court of Human Rights has rejected a German anti-abortion activist’s case against injunctions ordering him to stop referring to abortions performed by various doctors as “aggravated murder” and comparing them with the Holocaust.

The court, based in Strasbourg, France ruled on Thursday on a string of cases involving activist Klaus Guenter Annen, who argued that the four injunctions against him issued by German courts interfered with his freedom of expression.

The European court found that Mr Annen’s accusations against the doctors, which he posted on his website and elsewhere, “had not only been very serious but might also have incited hatred and aggression”.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 46901.html
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:49 am

So this could have gone in the Education thread or this one...I chose this one...

A Univ of Michigan student asked one of their professors to write a recommendation letter so the student could partake in a university sanctioned study abroad program. The professor sent an e-mail to the student saying yes he would. The student later sent the details for the reference letter -- the student wanted to study in Israel.

When the professor read the student e-mail he sent an e-mail back saying he is no longer willing to write the letter because the professor is part of an Anti-Israel group (BDS). The professor actually wrote that in his e-mail back. He said, he will write the student letters to other schools because he thinks the student is a good one, just not to any school in Israel.

When the administration heard about this, they disciplined the professor for not fulfilling his duty to serve students and putting his own personal political opinions in front of his job duties -- so the professor was denied a sabbatical, promotion and raise.

Here is an excerpt from the administration:

"Withholding letters of recommendation based on personal views does not meet our university's expectations for supporting the academic aspirations of our students. Conduct that violates this expectation and harms students will not be tolerated and will be addressed with serious consequences. Such actions interfere with our students' opportunities, violate their academic freedom and betray our university's educational mission," they wrote.




I can definitely see both sides here....1.) Any professor should be able to pick and choose who they write references for -- letters shouldn't be compelled (personally when a student asks me for one, I tell them exactly what type of stuff I would write and how high a recommendation I would give and then let the student decide if they still want the letter). 2.) I can also see the university's case that this professors denial is not based on academic principles or anything related to the student's own ability...but rather just a personal political objection by the professor...and as such, the professor is failing the duties of their position.





What say you?
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:59 am

Zarniwoop wrote:So this could have gone in the Education thread or this one...I chose this one...

A Univ of Michigan student asked one of their professors to write a recommendation letter so the student could partake in a university sanctioned study abroad program. The professor sent an e-mail to the student saying yes he would. The student later sent the details for the reference letter -- the student wanted to study in Israel.

When the professor read the student e-mail he sent an e-mail back saying he is no longer willing to write the letter because the professor is part of an Anti-Israel group (BDS). The professor actually wrote that in his e-mail back. He said, he will write the student letters to other schools because he thinks the student is a good one, just not to any school in Israel.

When the administration heard about this, they disciplined the professor for not fulfilling his duty to serve students and putting his own personal political opinions in front of his job duties -- so the professor was denied a sabbatical, promotion and raise.

Here is an excerpt from the administration:

"Withholding letters of recommendation based on personal views does not meet our university's expectations for supporting the academic aspirations of our students. Conduct that violates this expectation and harms students will not be tolerated and will be addressed with serious consequences. Such actions interfere with our students' opportunities, violate their academic freedom and betray our university's educational mission," they wrote.




I can definitely see both sides here....1.) Any professor should be able to pick and choose who they write references for -- letters shouldn't be compelled (personally when a student asks me for one, I tell them exactly what type of stuff I would write and how high a recommendation I would give and then let the student decide if they still want the letter). 2.) I can also see the university's case that this professors denial is not based on academic principles or anything related to the student's own ability...but rather just a personal political objection by the professor...and as such, the professor is failing the duties of their position.





What say you?

I agree with the university in this specific instance.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:26 am

Bad job by the school, IMO. If the professor has a strong belief that schools in Israel are not a good place for students to go, it’s well within his rights to not agree to actively help a student to go there. It’s the same argument you might make to say that a baker doesn’t have to create a cake for a gay wedding. You cannot force someone to do something that goes against their beliefs, or you can.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:56 am

Ken Carson wrote:Bad job by the school, IMO. If the professor has a strong belief that schools in Israel are not a good place for students to go, it’s well within his rights to not agree to actively help a student to go there. It’s the same argument you might make to say that a baker doesn’t have to create a cake for a gay wedding. You cannot force someone to do something that goes against their beliefs, or you can.

That's not what the prof was saying, imo. He refused based on his anti-Israel beliefs which I took to mean Israeli politics/culture and had nothing to do with a belief that Israeli universities weren't good enough. I'm still siding with the university at this point.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:00 am

The professor doesn’t think the school is not a good school, he just doesn’t want any money going to Israel.

Plus I would never tell a student their choice of school or job isn’t good enough for me so I’ll withhold a recommendation. I would tell them what I think is best but I wouldn’t withhold support.



I think the professor is going to sue, I don’t know if UM professors are unionized. It’s going to be interesting
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby PanteraCanes » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:24 am

Ken Carson wrote:Bad job by the school, IMO. If the professor has a strong belief that schools in Israel are not a good place for students to go, it’s well within his rights to not agree to actively help a student to go there. It’s the same argument you might make to say that a baker doesn’t have to create a cake for a gay wedding. You cannot force someone to do something that goes against their beliefs, or you can.


To me one is an employer (even if the University is a government run one) saying what they expect out of an employee versus the government getting involved in a private business. The student is their customer. If a butcher at a local grocery store refused to help someone because of their skin color then the grocery store is well within their rights to fire that butcher and replace him.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:59 am

Zarniwoop wrote:The professor doesn’t think the school is not a good school, he just doesn’t want any money going to Israel.

Plus I would never tell a student their choice of school or job isn’t good enough for me so I’ll withhold a recommendation. I would tell them what I think is best but I wouldn’t withhold support.



I think the professor is going to sue, I don’t know if UM professors are unionized. It’s going to be interesting

Eh, it’s the same thing to me. I don’t like policing people’s thoughts. Just their actions.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:13 am

Didn’t know where else to put this.



Lol, and these are the same people who accuse Trump of divisive/racist speech. Could you imagine the outrage if someone, like Hannity, on that other network said something like this?

Hey man, we’ve got to stop demonizing people, so I’m going to make things better by demonizing people.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:54 am

What was that story that the parents of twitter and facebook and some other company's are not allowing their kids to have computers, phones and other electronics in school? Could it be they know they got the brainwashing thing going?
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:56 am

Commander Bubbles wrote:Didn’t know where else to put this.



Lol, and these are the same people who accuse Trump of divisive/racist speech. Could you imagine the outrage if someone, like Hannity, on that other network said something like this?

Hey man, we’ve got to stop demonizing people, so I’m going to make things better by demonizing people.


It's like you don't even realize that CNN is Fox News' counterpart.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:58 am

In a lot of ways they are. But I don’t see a ton of Fox News clips about how evil individual people of the left are. Don Lemon calls Trump a racist almost every night, for example.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 am

Ken Carson wrote:In a lot of ways they are. But I don’t see a ton of Fox News clips about how evil individual people of the left are. Don Lemon calls Trump a racist almost every night, for example.


They called Obama "Obama Bin Laden"...a pimp. They call Michelle "Obama's baby momma" and routinely likened him as a friend to terrorists.

They are definitely the same coin.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:03 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
Commander Bubbles wrote:Didn’t know where else to put this.



Lol, and these are the same people who accuse Trump of divisive/racist speech. Could you imagine the outrage if someone, like Hannity, on that other network said something like this?

Hey man, we’ve got to stop demonizing people, so I’m going to make things better by demonizing people.


It's like you don't even realize that CNN is Fox News' counterpart.


Did you watch the clip?

I get that both networks accuse the other side of inaccurate/unfair things. That’s not my issue. My issue is when anyone, on any network, makes disparaging comments about any race. And I wonder how Lemon gets away with making comments like these.

Furthermore, I think it’s hypocritical to call out anyone for being racist, when you say the things Lemon said in this clip.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:13 am

Ken Carson wrote:In a lot of ways they are. But I don’t see a ton of Fox News clips about how evil individual people of the left are. Don Lemon calls Trump a racist almost every night, for example.


I don’t see a lot either. But, admittedly, I don’t watch a lot of FoxNews, and haven’t in years. I need to stop paying attention to CNN. It’s just not easy when there are so many CNN fans at work, and it’s becoming a guilty pleasure. Kinda like some women and their SOAPs.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:55 am

mightyleemoon wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:In a lot of ways they are. But I don’t see a ton of Fox News clips about how evil individual people of the left are. Don Lemon calls Trump a racist almost every night, for example.


They called Obama "Obama Bin Laden"...a pimp. They call Michelle "Obama's baby momma" and routinely likened him as a friend to terrorists.

They are definitely the same coin.

I mean, sure, they have had bad people on there. But not like Chris Cuomo, Don Lemon and Jim Acosta. Those guys basically have entire shows/segments about how evil the president is, on a personal level. It’s, to borrow CNN’s phrase, not normal.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:57 am

Among all the idiots in cable news (and the vast majority of people at all major networks are idiots) Don Lemon is one of the very worst. I’ve seen few people as racist as he is.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:42 am

lol at people still trying to play the "Nuh uh! They're worse!" game...

So much vile **** coming from each team's mainstreams while at the same time complaining about the vile **** on the other channel.

Until liberals get fed up with CNN/MSNBC's **** and conservatives get fed up with Fox News' ****...this is only going to continue to escalate.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:49 am

I’m registered Libertarian. Haven’t watched FoxNews in years. Just wondering why Lemon is able to be openly racist, while Megan Kelly is losing her job at NBC. Not a fan of her either, by the way.

Pretty amazing that you repeatedly missed the point, although I’m pretty sure that was your intention.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:06 pm

Commander Bubbles wrote:I’m registered Libertarian. Haven’t watched FoxNews in years. Just wondering why Lemon is able to be openly racist, while Megan Kelly is losing her job at NBC. Not a fan of her either, by the way.

Pretty amazing that you repeatedly missed the point, although I’m pretty sure that was your intention.


I guess you've never heard of Shaun King. Racism in one direction is always glossed over. Because, like I said, until liberals get sick of their ****, it's not going to stop.

It's funny that if you criticize both sides, all some people here is a defense of one side due to being critical of their team.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:14 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:
Commander Bubbles wrote:I’m registered Libertarian. Haven’t watched FoxNews in years. Just wondering why Lemon is able to be openly racist, while Megan Kelly is losing her job at NBC. Not a fan of her either, by the way.

Pretty amazing that you repeatedly missed the point, although I’m pretty sure that was your intention.


I guess you've never heard of Shaun King. Racism in one direction is always glossed over. Because, like I said, until liberals get sick of their ****, it's not going to stop.

It's funny that if you criticize both sides, all some people here is a defense of one side due to being critical of their team.

I googled Shaun King Fired and found a CNN article that says he was fired from Daily News for at least 3 instances of intentional plagiarism. He was fired from Morehoose College for brandishing a gun on campus. Did you bring him up for some other reason?

Edit: Reading your post back, maybe you’re comparing him to Don Lemon? Not sure, but that makes more sense.
Last edited by Ken Carson on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Chris Rock's old bit was that there's nobody more racist than an old black man. Don Lemon is 52... maybe it's a gradual thing?
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:16 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:
I guess you've never heard of Shaun King. Racism in one direction is always glossed over. Because, like I said, until liberals get sick of their ****, it's not going to stop.


Fair enough, I guess.

What did Shaun King do?

It's funny that if you criticize both sides, all some people here is a defense of one side due to being critical of their team.


To be honest, I’ve never witnessed you criticizing the left.

And what “team” am I on? I’m a little right of center. Many conservatives would consider me to be liberal on many issues. I’m calling out racism here. Shouldn’t be a “team” issue. Really should be an everyone issue.
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Re: Hate Speech / Free Speech

Postby Commander Bubbles » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:20 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Chris Rock's old bit was that there's nobody more racist than an old black man. Don Lemon is 52... maybe it's a gradual thing?


I’ve heard that bit :lol:. Yeah maybe you’re right. I just don’t think racism belongs on mainstream media outlets, or anywhere really.

I’m done ranting.
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