Politics and Family

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Politics and Family

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:02 pm

I don't get to spar with Terry anymore since I gave up Facebook, and while I do love to give her hell, I don't hate her. She'd lay down and die for my kids if she had to....and before doing so would let everyone know she was doing it....but I digress.

Who in your family has polar opposite political opinions from yours? How does that relationship work? Do you agree to disagree while staying cordial? Or do you duke it out in the front yard every thanksgiving?

I'm betting somebody in usc's family has a ***** hat and drives him up a wall.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:14 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't get to spar with Terry anymore since I gave up Facebook, and while I do love to give her hell, I don't hate her. She'd lay down and die for my kids if she had to....and before doing so would let everyone know she was doing it....but I digress.

Who in your family has polar opposite political opinions from yours? How does that relationship work? Do you agree to disagree while staying cordial? Or do you duke it out in the front yard every thanksgiving?

I'm betting somebody in usc's family has a ***** hat and drives him up a wall.

I don't agree with anyone in my family politically, except for my wife. My mom, grandfather, and wife's mom(and that entire side of the family) are all extreme right and my wife's dad is extreme left. I feel like I can't have a rational conversation with any of them and they mostly blurt out what they see on their preferred "news" source. IF political conversation is unavoidable, I try to help them challenge and deepen their own opinion instead of battling them.

All that said, I have had a few "Thanksgiving battles". My wife's father said he felt belittled (blocked me on fb in retaliation) when we had a gun debate and he kept saying that all guns were fully automatic and could shoot "over 1,000 rounds per second" out of the box and my wife's grandmother I thought was going to die when we got into an argument when she stated that Democrats were making conservative families children retarded with vaccinations. Again, I'm pretty good at dodging these confrontations, but they just make such outlandish claims sometimes I can't let them walk through life thinking they are fact. I never think I'm going to change their opinion or perspective.

edit: For perspective...my wife's mom thinks the devil created Disney to lure kids to Satan and away from Jesus. She read my son a book about Adam riding a T-Rex and said it was a true story...It's just too much.

edit 2: My mom is extremely homophobic and that drives me crazy, too. She's so angry with her ignorance that I can't get through to her.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:26 pm

I have similar beliefs as my dad...he’s a super smart guy too :P

I have about 50-60% overlap with everyone else in my nuclear family. As for Aunts and Uncles all of them are commie bastards.


While we often have political talks at family get together I’ve never witnessed anyone being anything other than polite and courteous to each other.



———

Good idea for a topic
Last edited by Zarniwoop on Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby NYBF » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:28 pm

Family get together have the same rules as a bar: no religion or politics. ****. That. ****.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:50 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't get to spar with Terry anymore since I gave up Facebook, and while I do love to give her hell, I don't hate her. She'd lay down and die for my kids if she had to....and before doing so would let everyone know she was doing it....but I digress.

Who in your family has polar opposite political opinions from yours? How does that relationship work? Do you agree to disagree while staying cordial? Or do you duke it out in the front yard every thanksgiving?

I'm betting somebody in usc's family has a ***** hat and drives him up a wall.

I don't agree with anyone in my family politically, except for my wife. My mom, grandfather, and wife's mom(and that entire side of the family) are all extreme right and my wife's dad is extreme left. I feel like I can't have a rational conversation with any of them and they mostly blurt out what they see on their preferred "news" source. IF political conversation is unavoidable, I try to help them challenge and deepen their own opinion instead of battling them.

All that said, I have had a few "Thanksgiving battles". My wife's father said he felt belittled (blocked me on fb in retaliation) when we had a gun debate and he kept saying that all guns were fully automatic and could shoot "over 1,000 rounds per second" out of the box and my wife's grandmother I thought was going to die when we got into an argument when she stated that Democrats were making conservative families children retarded with vaccinations. Again, I'm pretty good at dodging these confrontations, but they just make such outlandish claims sometimes I can't let them walk through life thinking they are fact. I never think I'm going to change their opinion or perspective.

edit: For perspective...my wife's mom thinks the devil created Disney to lure kids to Satan and away from Jesus. She read my son a book about Adam riding a T-Rex and said it was a true story...It's just too much.

edit 2: My mom is extremely homophobic and that drives me crazy, too. She's so angry with her ignorance that I can't get through to her.

God bless your family, but they have some looney takes on this world.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I don't agree with anyone in my family politically, except for my wife. My mom, grandfather, and wife's mom(and that entire side of the family) are all extreme right and my wife's dad is extreme left. I feel like I can't have a rational conversation with any of them and they mostly blurt out what they see on their preferred "news" source. IF political conversation is unavoidable, I try to help them challenge and deepen their own opinion instead of battling them.

All that said, I have had a few "Thanksgiving battles". My wife's father said he felt belittled (blocked me on fb in retaliation) when we had a gun debate and he kept saying that all guns were fully automatic and could shoot "over 1,000 rounds per second" out of the box and my wife's grandmother I thought was going to die when we got into an argument when she stated that Democrats were making conservative families children retarded with vaccinations. Again, I'm pretty good at dodging these confrontations, but they just make such outlandish claims sometimes I can't let them walk through life thinking they are fact. I never think I'm going to change their opinion or perspective.

edit: For perspective...my wife's mom thinks the devil created Disney to lure kids to Satan and away from Jesus. She read my son a book about Adam riding a T-Rex and said it was a true story...It's just too much.

edit 2: My mom is extremely homophobic and that drives me crazy, too. She's so angry with her ignorance that I can't get through to her.

God bless your family, but they have some looney takes on this world.


I've gotten better at ignoring it, but it's just too much at times...my wife things it's hilarious and tries to encourage their crazy thoughts/me combating them.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 pm

My uncle is simultaneously the biggest socialist and the biggest capitalist in the family.

He's every bit the Hippie you would expect from a New England born Boomer with college coursework in, I swear to god, pottery.

He will talk about the bourgeois, and the corporate greed, but is the only one in the family to have his own business and several entrepreneurial efforts over the decades. He even pitched one idea on Dragon's Den which is the Canadian version of Shark Tank.

Progressive as I may be, he takes it way too far. Calls for full blown social ownership of the means.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby The Outsider » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:16 pm

My dad is an entrepreneur. Had several restaurants in the Tampa Bay area during the 00's but his main business were an IME business in the 90s and a Surgical Assist business in the 00''s-10's.

He's always been pretty conservative but he's always been someone who votes on policy rather than party, which is something I've taken to.

My dad is much more conservative (a fiscal conservative and constitutionalist) than I am, but he has come around to universal health care recently. He's definitely influenced my politics. I haven't always shared his propensity for fiscal conservatism (I'm not afraid of the government spending more in areas like healthcare because I think we can cut more than that expenditure elsewhere) but his reverence for the constitution is something I gravitated towards. That document, while imperfect, is perhaps the greatest treatise on basic governance that mankind has ever conceived of.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Alpha » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:09 am

NYBF wrote:Family get together have the same rules as a bar: no religion or politics. ****. That. ****.


Same.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Buc You » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:55 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:He will talk about the bourgeois, and the corporate greed, but is the only one in the family to have his own business and several entrepreneurial efforts over the decades. He even pitched one idea on Dragon's Den which is the Canadian version of Shark Tank.

If everyone around you is playing checkers and you think playing checkers is a horrible idea, that doesn't mean you're dumb enough to try to win at chess during a checkers game.

You play checkers better than them all while telling them how dumb they are for playing this **** game in the first place.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:20 am

My family always talks politics. Playing euchre, drinking whiskey, and talking politics is what we do when we get together.

Pretty split between liberals and conservatives. But when I say liberals I'm talking about classical liberals and the discussion are mostly about the role of government, healthcare, entitlements, etc. We don't have any leftists that have succumb to the identity/group association ideology other than a close family friend whose two grown daughters don't speak to her thus she spends all holidays and other family events with our family.

Discussions do get passionate at times but we always end them on good terms.

My wife and I also have re-occurring dinners with friends where we mostly discuss politics. The women even text the agenda of issues to discuss that night. I grew up where talking politics was the norm. Discussing ideas with people that think different is a good thing and shouldn't be avoided imo. If you don't know how other people think how sure can be about your own ideas? It's one reason I'm drawn to this sub-forum here. I've never understood why people shy away from politics but will feverishly debate sports, entertainment, etc. It's ok to disagree, or even revise your opinion on an issue and the latter is best done via discussion with people you respect. That most often should be family and close friends.
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Buc2 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:17 pm

My nuclear family (well, myself and my 2 daughters) are all pretty much Libertarian in viewpoint. There is, however, a wide divergence of political viewpoints within my immediate family. The only ones I've ever seen get angry at one another are my 2 sisters. One sis is, not only right, but Christian right. My oldest sister, also the oldest sibling, leans heavily left. Anyway, the left sis has actually stopped talking to the right sis over their divergent political viewpoints. They've had some pretty heated arguments. The silence typically doesn't last too long, though. Within a few weeks, they always make up without either ever giving an inch to the other. I, on the other hand, enjoy instigating both of them. But I'm the "baby brother" so they let me get away with it. :lol:
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:20 pm

similar to you, DN

(holy **** sorry for the incoming blog post - IVE TYPED TOO MUCH NOW TO DELETE IT :twisted: )

I grew up in a house that ALWAYS talked politics. Every day. All day. Then again, our family was just the 3 of us; my mom, my dad, and I. My parents (dad in particular) have always been very political engaged/aware, and I credit them entirely for my interest in the subject. When they come into town, or when I go visit them, we hug, I hand them a beer, or they hand me a beer, and we sit down and start talking politics. I mean its just what we do for fun. I always enjoy the conversations and so do my parents... well sort of... up until recently. My parents are both sort of your standard Boomer Hippies - my dad owned his own architecture firm, his record catalog spans from Santana to The Tams to The Moody Blues, my mom was a 2nd wave feminist. Both are broadly liberal. I have been too, sort of by diffusion and being raised in their household, but the last election cycle changed things. And it was a catalyst of sorts for an eye-opening realization that I've had about my parent's and other peoples' political views.

As I've grown older (29 now), I've realized a couple things about my parents - now that I am away from them, starting my own family, and starting to look at them as, you know, real people, not infallible super heroes. My entire life, I've always held my mother and father on equal planes in terms of their "getting *IT*" - both very intelligent and I figured they knew the same things and interpreted information/news/happenings in the same way - but I've come to realize I was wrong about this assumption.

What I've come to realize is, to put it bluntly (because this is already turning into a long winded post lol) - my mom basically parrots what she hears from my dad. That, and she can repeat news stories verbatim. But she doesn't seem to have much nuance. She doesn't really get the whole picture of an issue. She hears something, feels emotional about it, but doesn't really take the next step to put the event or the view into perspective. She's basically a mile wide and an inch deep on everything - with about 9/10ths of that inch being made up of emotions. It's odd, because she spends a LOT of time thinking about these issues and acting on them (she goes to marches and protests all the time), but she's surprisingly incapable of discussing her views.

For background, here's how I get my news:
- I check news.google.com in the morning to get a broad bi-partisan look at the "happenings" and headlines - if I want to dig deeper, I may click on the NYtimes version, but I do this maybe 10% of the time.
- Then I check 4chan /pol/ - unironically. They are generally an hour or so ahead on any major world wide political happening. After disregarding 90% of the bullshit there, there's about 10% that gives you the real dirt - the truth - of what is going down. I like it because it's an unfiltered view of the world that comes from people from all over the world - scrubbed clean of PC, US goggles and media spin.
- Then I check the political forum here, and then kind of go from there - repeat, and maybe dig into 2-3 of the main stories that I'm interested in.

My parents get the news by:
- go to NYtimes, read everything
- go to dailykos, read everything
- go to huffingtonpost, read half
- then cap the night off by watching MSNBC from 5pm til 9pm

So as you can imagine, our world views, due to the vastly different pipelines we're siphoning from, are completely different from each other these days. I don't have a problem with this, my father doesn't have a problem with this... but JFC, boy does my mother.

So what ends up happening now, is we crack some beers, sit down, start talking, we laugh and joke and gloss over the main ****, I bend my views a bit to agree with them on some of the major anti-trump ****, just to let them get it off their chests, and to get a dialogue going. Then we crack another round of beers while digging in on maybe one issue. Then another round, and then I'll maybe bring up something that goes against their "MSNBC" flavor of an issue - for instance, immigration. They're in the "US citizenship for the world" camp, I'm in the "pragmatic, numbers-based, the-system-can't-handle-nor-will-that-solve-the-"problem"" camp. I'll start explaining my view point, flesh it out with a couple data points to provide perspective, and make a relatively cohesive argument for why they should consider looking at an issue differently than they had before. My dad hangs with me, asks questions, we have a great discussion and (more and more frequently), he comes around to at least seeing why I see things the way I do, and is generally smiling and enjoying having his son "teach" him something that he hadn't considered.

Meanwhile, my mom is fuming. She'll interject with a couple emotional pleas, or some other hyperbolic hot take she stole from the aol.com homepage. And more often than not, these days, my dad - who is on "her side" will calmly back her down and say "no, I don't think he meant that... what he was saying is..." or he'll even straight up say "...well that's not exactly true" and explain to her why. My dad is able to navigate the whole field. My mother cannot. And my mother is sort of the embodiment of what we're seeing in a lot of the public discourse these days. And it flat out comes down to this:

My mother just doesn't know much. She WATCHES a lot. She READS a lot. But for whatever reason, putting together the puzzle doesn't come easy to her. So she kind of has these half-baked ideas about what's right and wrong and who's a good guy and a bad guy - and she knows she feels emotionally attached and strongly about things - but its like she doesn't really know why. It's very much like when my toddler son can repeat one of his books back to me, word for word, but has no clue about what is actually going on in the story - or only has a vague concept of what happens, and not why that bird did that thing, or that guy said that thing, or what the relationship is between anything. I mean, you should hear the things that I get her to logically agree to when we talk 1 on 1 and really drill down on an issue - I do it in sort of a devil's advocate way, but I've had her say or agree with some pretty EXTREME premises that are completely 180 degrees from what she usually carries around with her - and when I confront her with "do you realize what you're agreeing with right now though!? lol" she usually walks it back or says she doesn't want to talk about it any more and we move on.

So after a couple rounds of my mom diving in and shouting some hot takes, she usually gets all in a huff and says she has to stop talking about this, and then will go off with my wife. My dad and I could (and have several times) sit and talk til late night, drinking, sharing, learning, and having an all around great time. These are actually some of my favorite memories in life.

Anyways, my wife is sort of similar to my mom about politics too - she doesn't know WHY she feels strongly about something - just that she does. But the difference is my wife HATES politics, and is willfully ignorant of them (one of the reasons I love her - she's the sanctuary that reminds me there's "more" to life than human-human interaction). I'd say maybe 90% of the time, when she and I talk politics, it ends up a shit-show, even if we agree. She ends up thinking I'm trying to put her down or treat her like some student, so she gets defensive and emotional. I'm a pretty calm dude when I talk politics, and I REALLY enjoy it, and have no problem conceding when somebody makes a good point, so its not one of those things where I'm just berating her and yelling at her, and I love her to death, so I know I'm not ever out to get her, but for some reason a disconnect is there between us - and she recently opened up to me and made me realize why:

She said there are two reasons she doesn't like politics: 1) she thinks it makes people angry, and she doesn't like negativity (bad experiences watching her brothers/sisters and her dad talk politics - ironically her dad and I talk politics all the time and get along great while we do, despite having very different views on a lot of things), and most importantly,2) she doesn't like talking politics because she says she doesn't know much about them.

She flat out hasn't invested the ACTUAL time necessary to really gain a nuanced view of most issues - so any time we start to get to that 2nd and 3rd level in the discussion, she gets defensive. In the moment, she doesn't want to be exposed as not knowing something. Which I TOTALLY get. That's human nature. It's an ironic thing - the more I know about something, the more willing I am to concede on any well-presented point. But when you don't know a lot about a subject, and you're in a vulnerable spot (either broadcasting your opinion, with your name and face attached to it, to the billions in the world - or when talking to a loved one who's opinion of you you value, or a group you want to appear a certain way to) - you CLING to that little bit of knowledge you have like a damn lifesaver in a hurricane LOL - and instead of the issue being some sort of objective thing to discuss, it is now tethered to you - you take it on like it is yours, you become defensive about it, because it is a small thing and it is all you have and you have to protect it.

So I think this is REALLY what it all boils down to - people just don't know jack diddly squat about anything. And there's this expectation that you SHOULD. But there are a LOT of things to do in life, and there are a lot of different ways to spend your time, and there are a lot of different things to be interested in - so it's not everybody that a) has an inherent interest in political happenings, b) is afforded the time to spend learning about issues --- but these days everybody PRETENDS like they do.

So to me, this is entirely it: the people that are the loud, emotional, and hyperbolic are that way about things because they flat out. don't. know. ****. It's why my mom freaks the hell out and can't carry on a conversation about things, but my dad can. My mom doesn't know jack, and my dad does. It's why Cathy Newman couldn't carry on the conversation with Jordan Peterson - she didn't know jack, but JP does. I wish most people would admit what my wife did - swallow their friggin pride and just admit that they don't know a lot about certain things and stop pretending --- and then spend the time actually digging in on issues (and the history of the issue), and come back with a well-formulated opinion. Because once you really do that, issues and events become object things, not something that is YOURS. You end up freeing yourself from the issues because you're no longer personally attached to them or defensive about them - and when you're free of the issue, you can discuss it with anybody calmly because the information is no longer "yours" - the information is self-evident and stands on its own - you're just there to facilitate it's transfer from your brain to theirs

anyways, with that being said, I used to not get why people had "no politics, no religion" rules at family events - all of my experience had been great and cooperative. But now after merging my family with my wife's, and getting more perspective on the depth of understanding people actually carry around with them - I completely get it. With that being said, I'm always happy to talk politics with the few that want to when we all get together for BBQ's and such - no matter how extreme the conversation, I'll always listen to anything and be happy to consider it and agree or disagree - have never had a bad experience (from my end at least lol - had one brother-in-law make the mistake of drunkenly suggesting that, as a society, we should consider whether babies with birth defects should be aborted --- in a room with two occupational therapist sisters, in a family where deafness runs in the family --- you can imagine that went over like a fart in church)


*flava flav voice* woooowwwwww time to get back to work. sorry again for the wall of text. I don't even know what the point was of what I just typed lol :drinkingcheers:
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:23 pm

I enjoyed it. Good post



I think it should spur a corollary thread on how each of us get our political and economic news
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Re: Politics and Family

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:37 pm

My parents are party line Republicans who gave birth to me, a Democrat, my sister, who votes progressive but hasn’t yet switched party affiliation and my brother who is fairly liberal but abstains from voting as a conscientious objector. It’s kinda funny but I get the least shot because at least I’m an honest rebel to their political leanings.

I’d say it has become increasingly difficult to hang out with my dad because we always used to find whatever channel had a ball and a scoreboard. Now he always has Fox News a click away and after 90 seconds I just ask him he he can watch Tucker Carlson. Then I see that he DVRs it and die a little inside. He is generally closed off to any contrary opinions and has party line answers for everything.

My mom is very fiscally conservative (CPA), but she is much more open to considering other points of view. We’ve had a lot of good discussions in the last few years as my mom has really considered things from others’ perspective after I married a Catholic Hispanic. It’s bren pretty cool to see, though she will always vote republican no matter who it is. She cast her vote for Mike Pence, not Trump, according to her.
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