Space Force

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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:15 am

without our satellites our military is fucked. so yeah, they need it.

first comes need, then comes how to make it happen

hate on Trump all you want, and he does sound like an idiot a lot. so i can relate. but don't shoot the messenger.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:19 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
It’s certainly gaining momentum.

Of being mocked or supported?


When the proposal for a separate force was broached last year, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis resisted it. He wrote to Congress that it would “likely present a narrower and even parochial approach to space operations.”

Mattis signaled this week that his thoughts had changed.

"We need to address space as a developing war-fighting domain, and a combatant command is certainly one thing that we can establish," Mattis said. "This is a process we're in. We are in complete alignment with the president's concern about protecting our assets in space that contribute to our security, to our economy. And we're going to have to address it as other countries show a capability to attack those assets."
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:20 am

Moreover:

The Pentagon's plan, released Thursday, identifies China and Russia as "strategic competitors" that are "explicitly pursuing space war-fighting capabilities to neutralize U.S. space capabilities in a time of conflict." For example, Russia and China are pursuing anti-satellite weapons, including lasers, to "reduce U.S. military effectiveness."


So the perceived need is apparently there.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:22 am

But what would they know... Maybe we should all be listening to ‘bucfan the engineer out of Tampa Bay’, instead.


Lol.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:23 am

RedLeader wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Of being mocked or supported?


When the proposal for a separate force was broached last year, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis resisted it. He wrote to Congress that it would “likely present a narrower and even parochial approach to space operations.”

Mattis signaled this week that his thoughts had changed.

"We need to address space as a developing war-fighting domain, and a combatant command is certainly one thing that we can establish," Mattis said. "This is a process we're in. We are in complete alignment with the president's concern about protecting our assets in space that contribute to our security, to our economy. And we're going to have to address it as other countries show a capability to attack those assets."


We should expand the AF, specifically Space Command's mission, then. An area which they are already working in. Otherwise this reduces our AF to basically a military Skyline that also babysits Nukes for 90% of the time. There are still many that don't believe the AF ever should have split off form the Army, especially with amount of Air power left to the Navy and Army.

We already spend too much on our military. I think it's a terrible idea.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:24 am

RedLeader wrote:But what would they know... Maybe we should all be listening to ‘bucfan the engineer out of Tampa Bay’, instead.


Lol.

Right. The government has never lead us astray.
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Re: Space Force

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:26 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Fiscal conservatism gets thrown out the window when it's something "conservatives" want to waste money on.

Is anyone behind Space Force?

I thought it was being mocked by all Political groups.


I haven't been following it other than my Navy buds posting funny memes on FB about it.

I will say that supreme airpower is a big reason our Military is unmatched on a global scale. Taking that into space the US has a huge stratgic and technological advatnage with the capabilites our military satillites provide. So if this 'space force' is intent on protecting that I can see it. I just don't know why we wouldn't continue to use the branches within Air Force to do so like we always have for space defense/exploration. Why a new 'Space Force".

Those are my initial thoughts anyways, I'm not read up on the mission/objective of this new Space Force.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:29 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
When the proposal for a separate force was broached last year, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis resisted it. He wrote to Congress that it would “likely present a narrower and even parochial approach to space operations.”

Mattis signaled this week that his thoughts had changed.

"We need to address space as a developing war-fighting domain, and a combatant command is certainly one thing that we can establish," Mattis said. "This is a process we're in. We are in complete alignment with the president's concern about protecting our assets in space that contribute to our security, to our economy. And we're going to have to address it as other countries show a capability to attack those assets."


We should expand the AF, specifically Space Command's mission, then. An area which they are already working in. Otherwise this reduces our AF to basically a military Skyline that also babysits Nukes for 90% of the time. There are still many that don't believe the AF ever should have split off form the Army, especially with amount of Air power left to the Navy and Army.

We already spend too much on our military. I think it's a terrible idea.


We really dont know what this would cost, or how it’s getting paid for until the budget is submitted later this year. Ill wait for more info before having an opinion.

Truth be told, theres overlap in every branch to some extent, so this is nothing new.

Have tou ever questioned the need for the Marines when we already had an Army? “An area they were already working in”.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 am

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Is anyone behind Space Force?

I thought it was being mocked by all Political groups.


I haven't been following it other than my Navy buds posting funny memes on FB about it.

I will say that supreme airpower is a big reason our Military is unmatched on a global scale. Taking that into space the US has a huge stratgic and technological advatnage with the capabilites our military satillites provide. So if this 'space force' is intent on protecting that I can see it. I just don't know why we wouldn't continue to use the branches within Air Force to do so like we always have for space defense/exploration. Why a new 'Space Force".

Those are my initial thoughts anyways, I'm not read up on the mission/objective of this new Space Force.


I'm not critical of expanding more operations towards space, but I am of making another branch, mainly due to the cost and the fact that recently the Air Force's primary mission, outside of transportation, has become Space operations. I don't see any reason to create a separate finance, services, MP units to support a new branch when we can extend what we already have.
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Re: Space Force

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:31 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
When the proposal for a separate force was broached last year, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis resisted it. He wrote to Congress that it would “likely present a narrower and even parochial approach to space operations.”

Mattis signaled this week that his thoughts had changed.

"We need to address space as a developing war-fighting domain, and a combatant command is certainly one thing that we can establish," Mattis said. "This is a process we're in. We are in complete alignment with the president's concern about protecting our assets in space that contribute to our security, to our economy. And we're going to have to address it as other countries show a capability to attack those assets."


We should expand the AF, specifically Space Command's mission, then. An area which they are already working in. Otherwise this reduces our AF to basically a military Skyline that also babysits Nukes for 90% of the time. There are still many that don't believe the AF ever should have split off form the Army, especially with amount of Air power left to the Navy and Army.

We already spend too much on our military. I think it's a terrible idea.

Agreed. My issue isn't that there is no reason to protect assets in space, but why create a whole new branch of the military just to muddle the line between them and the AF at the cost of likely billions of wasted tax dollars?
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Re: Space Force

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:32 am

RedLeader wrote:Moreover:

The Pentagon's plan, released Thursday, identifies China and Russia as "strategic competitors" that are "explicitly pursuing space war-fighting capabilities to neutralize U.S. space capabilities in a time of conflict." For example, Russia and China are pursuing anti-satellite weapons, including lasers, to "reduce U.S. military effectiveness."


This was what I was thinking... Anyone who wanted to threaten the US or our interests militarily would have to neutralize our technological advantages to some degree and taking out our military and/or commercial satellites would be an ideal way to create chaos and reduce our military capabilities.

Still don't see why we need a new branch called the "Space Force" :lol: . Just let the Air Force handle it like they have.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:34 am

RedLeader wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
We should expand the AF, specifically Space Command's mission, then. An area which they are already working in. Otherwise this reduces our AF to basically a military Skyline that also babysits Nukes for 90% of the time. There are still many that don't believe the AF ever should have split off form the Army, especially with amount of Air power left to the Navy and Army.

We already spend too much on our military. I think it's a terrible idea.


We really dont know what this would cost, or how it’s getting paid for until the budget is submitted later this year. Ill wait for more info before having an opinion.

Truth be told, theres overlap in every branch to some extent, so this is nothing new.

Have tou ever questioned the need for the Marines when we already had an Army? “An area they were already working in”.


It's already been stated this will be a large cost by Pence.

I don't think you've ever been in the military by the way you are seeing this. Most of the AF is support as in; cops, services, supply, medical, etc.. This is where creating a new branch gets really expensive, more so than the massive initial cost of bases, uniforms, etc. The same mission can be achieved at a lower cost, by just expanding the USAF Space Command, but then you don't get to say you created Space Force, right?

Edit: Again, I'm not against protecting or expanding our mission into Space. This is just a terrible idea that will cost an unfathomable amount of money going forward. It can be done cheaper.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:36 am

NYBF wrote:Imagine being so ****ing stupid you seriously discuss, in public, ideas that a 6 year old would come up with.


Regarding momentum, we’ve definitely come a long way from this... lol.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:36 am

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Is anyone behind Space Force?

I thought it was being mocked by all Political groups.


I haven't been following it other than my Navy buds posting funny memes on FB about it.

I will say that supreme airpower is a big reason our Military is unmatched on a global scale. Taking that into space the US has a huge stratgic and technological advatnage with the capabilites our military satillites provide. So if this 'space force' is intent on protecting that I can see it. I just don't know why we wouldn't continue to use the branches within Air Force to do so like we always have for space defense/exploration. Why a new 'Space Force".

Those are my initial thoughts anyways, I'm not read up on the mission/objective of this new Space Force.



Their cutting the AF so thin their getting parts from scrapyards, so I wouldn't count on the AF budget supporting it. Perhaps thats part of the reason for a seperate force. you know kind of like health insurance and AFLAC. With the new weapons China and Russia have comeout with recently we better do something to counter it. I highly doubt their planning a fleet of 20B$ space shuttles. probably more agile laser technology would make more sense practically and monetarily.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:46 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
RedLeader wrote:
We really dont know what this would cost, or how it’s getting paid for until the budget is submitted later this year. Ill wait for more info before having an opinion.

Truth be told, theres overlap in every branch to some extent, so this is nothing new.

Have tou ever questioned the need for the Marines when we already had an Army? “An area they were already working in”.


...but then you don't get to say you created Space Force, right?


Yes. You’ve hit it on the head. Im sure this is what its all about.

Lol
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:50 am

bucfanclw wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Is anyone behind Space Force?

I thought it was being mocked by all Political groups.

Stuart and RL seem to be behind it like good little lap dogs.



More lap dogs:

The top House Republican and Democrat on an Armed Services Committee panel on strategic forces applauded the plan. Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., and Jim Cooper, D-Tenn., said in a joint statement that they had warned for years about the need to beef up military capabilities in space.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:52 am

RedLeader wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
...but then you don't get to say you created Space Force, right?


Yes. You’ve hit it on the head. Im sure this is what its all about.

Lol


If you don't believe that plays a part in this, you are dense.

Beefing up Space capabilities does not mean creating a new branch.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:03 am

what are our offensive military space capabilities now that we can beef up?
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:07 am

Would tou be happy if they just added “department of the Air Force” under it. Thats basically what it’s going to be.

You dont even know what you’re bitching about yet.

My only position has been that i dont have one. Not until at least the budget comes out.

More than likely this won’t be an entirely new branch, as you are ignorantly purporting. It sounds like this will be a small branch carved out of existing AF operations. So at most they’ll have to repurpose some bases and military personel, rebrand some unis, etc. Is it going to cost Billions? Sure, more than likely.. But ifyou dont think the military already spends tons on new uniforms every year, you’re clueless. Except this time, they’ll have to tell the contractor, hey can you make a bunch in darker blue?

Like i said, and all ive said, is we dont have all the facts. And if tou think this whole thing is all about being able to call it “Space Force”, then I’d say you’ve been watching way too much ‘The View’.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:12 am

Stuart wrote:what are our offensive military space capabilities now that we can beef up?



We are working on flying sharks with laser beams on their heads
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:15 am

RedLeader wrote:Would tou be happy if they just added “department of the Air Force” under it. Thats basically what it’s going to be.

You dont even know what you’re bitching about yet.

My only position has been that i dont have one. Not until at least the budget comes out.

More than likely this won’t be an entirely new branch, as you are ignorantly purporting. It sounds like this will be a small branch carved out of existing AF operations. So at most they’ll have to repurpose some bases and military personel, rebrand some unis, etc. Is it going to cost Billions? Sure, more than likely.. But ifyou dont think the military already spends tons on new uniforms every year, you’re clueless. Except this time, they’ll have to tell the contractor, hey can you make a bunch in darker blue?

Like i said, and all ive said, is we dont have all the facts. And if tou think this whole thing is all about being able to call it “Space Force”, then I’d say you’ve been watching way too much ‘The View’.


Ignorantly reporting? I'm just going off what Trump and Spence have stated in plain English. If it is a completely new branch, it's ridiculous and a bad idea in my opinion. Is that not what we are arguing? The idea of a new branch called Space Force? If not, please post a link where either Trump or Spence have suggested it will be a subset of the AF operations.

My initial point and the part which I'm upset about as someone in the military is I understand how much bloat is required to make a branch run. Army finance doesn't handle AF, AF finance doesn't handle Navy, and so on and so forth. It's not just the uniforms that are different. They get completely different systems, programs, and personnel to manage these.

The bases are a small overall cost to the other things I've stated.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:20 am

United States Space Force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
The United States Space Force (USSF) is a proposed[1] sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces intended to have control over military operations in outer space. It would absorb the operations and duties of the Air Force Space Command, a major command of the United States Air Force that currently handles and supports most of the country's military operations in space.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:24 am

I see this thread as a perfect example of why Trump says things first and everyone loses their **** before coming around.

if he actually floated an idea like this he would be bogged down in people from all sides for two years professing their expertise yadda, yadda, yadda

henry ford didn't know how to build a v-8. he told his engineers to build it. then he told them again, and again.

gettin **** done- DT
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Re: Space Force

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:25 am

Stuart wrote:United States Space Force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
The United States Space Force (USSF) is a proposed[1] sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces intended to have control over military operations in outer space. It would absorb the operations and duties of the Air Force Space Command, a major command of the United States Air Force that currently handles and supports most of the country's military operations in space.

Sounds like they're just ignorantly purporting it to be a sixth branch instead of just part of the Air Force.
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Re: Space Force

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:26 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Stuart wrote:United States Space Force
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
The United States Space Force (USSF) is a proposed[1] sixth branch of the United States Armed Forces intended to have control over military operations in outer space. It would absorb the operations and duties of the Air Force Space Command, a major command of the United States Air Force that currently handles and supports most of the country's military operations in space.

Sounds like they're just ignorantly purporting it to be a sixth branch instead of just part of the Air Force.

Stop watching The View.
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Re: Space Force

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Sounds like they're just ignorantly purporting it to be a sixth branch instead of just part of the Air Force.

Stop watching The View.

You caught me.
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Re: Space Force

Postby NYBF » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:33 am

RedLeader wrote:More than likely this won’t be an entirely new branch, as you are ignorantly purporting. It sounds like this will be a small branch carved out of existing AF operations.


Stuart wrote:Vice President Mike Pence announced Thursday that the Pentagon is beginning the process of creating a sixth branch of the United States military dedicated to space that will be known as the Space Force.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:35 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
RedLeader wrote:Would tou be happy if they just added “department of the Air Force” under it. Thats basically what it’s going to be.

You dont even know what you’re bitching about yet.

My only position has been that i dont have one. Not until at least the budget comes out.

More than likely this won’t be an entirely new branch, as you are ignorantly purporting. It sounds like this will be a small branch carved out of existing AF operations. So at most they’ll have to repurpose some bases and military personel, rebrand some unis, etc. Is it going to cost Billions? Sure, more than likely.. But ifyou dont think the military already spends tons on new uniforms every year, you’re clueless. Except this time, they’ll have to tell the contractor, hey can you make a bunch in darker blue?

Like i said, and all ive said, is we dont have all the facts. And if tou think this whole thing is all about being able to call it “Space Force”, then I’d say you’ve been watching way too much ‘The View’.


Ignorantly reporting? I'm just going off what Trump and Spence have stated in plain English. If it is a completely new branch, it's ridiculous and a bad idea in my opinion. Is that not what we are arguing? The idea of a new branch called Space Force? If not, please post a link where either Trump or Spence have suggested it will be a subset of the AF operations.

My initial point and the part which I'm upset about as someone in the military is I understand how much bloat is required to make a branch run. Army finance doesn't handle AF, AF finance doesn't handle Navy, and so on and so forth. It's not just the uniforms that are different. They get completely different systems, programs, and personnel to manage these.

The bases are a small overall cost to the other things I've stated.


Dude, read my post again... I fell like we're going in circles now.


Again, "the new force would probably be carved out of the Air Force" according to military analysts.. which I imagine also means that it's going to be carved out of the AF's budget.

And I'm not sure how positioning your self as someone who has 'served in the military' makes you any type of expert in branch operations, or the 'bloat' that goes into it. Unless of course you were a high level operations officer with the DoD and the need to know that ****. But you don't quite strike me as that type... I sure as hell know Marines arent dealing with a lot of 'bloat'... lol.

Look, is there 'bloat' in all facets of the military? Sure. Do you have any idea how much 'bloat' they'll be re-allocating from the AF to create this new 'branch'? No. Nobody does yet.


So calm your tits.
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Re: Space Force

Postby Stuart » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:36 am

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/09/63713222 ... 3898991611

Vice President Pence described the White House's plans for a Space Force, a sixth branch of the U.S. military that would be responsible for operations in outer space, in a speech on Thursday.
The White House says that the Space Force will be created by 2020. The change, which would require approval from Congress, would be a dramatic change in the organization of the Defense Department.
"We must have American dominance in space, and so we will," Pence said in his speech at the Pentagon.
Pence said that President Trump will request $8 billion over the next five years to support military operations in space.
Space is "becoming a contested war-fighting domain," Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Thursday. "We have to adapt to that reality."
Critics, even those who agree with the strategic significance of space, argue that creating a Space Force is "an unnecessary and expensive bureaucratic endeavor," as Reuters put it.

NATIONAL SECURITY
Trump Calls For 'Space Force' To Defend U.S. Interests Among The Stars
Trump announced his plan for the Space Force in June. As NPR noted at the time, " a new branch of the military can only be established by an act of Congress — something that hasn't happened since the Air Force was split from the Army in 1947.
But the Department of Defense has identified "five actions that can be taken immediately to begin building the Space Force," according to a fact sheet released by the White House on Thursday.
They include establishing civilian oversight for the Space Force and creating a United States Space Command to "improve, evolve and plan space war-fighting."
The Defense Department is already active in space, of course, with the Air Force in charge.
But if you have visions of joining the military — now or under a future Space Force — and strapping on a jet pack, NPR's Geoff Brumfiel is here to crush your dreams.
"The U.S. military is big in space, but it's all unmanned satellites," Brumfiel reports. Those satellites handle intelligence and surveillance, as well as command, control and communication, among other things.
Behind Trump's Call To Launch A Space Force
Joan Johnson-Freese, a space security expert at the Naval War College, told Brumfiel that she doesn't think a Space Force is currently necessary.
"Why do we have a Navy? We have a Navy to protect shipping lanes," she said. "Until we have those same needs in space, the Air Force and the other services are doing all the things we need to do."
Brian Weeden, a former Air Force officer who worked in space operations, tells Brumfiel that he agrees there are potential threats in space. He also says that the current system, with the Air Force in charge of military space operations, is not ideal.
But he, too, isn't convinced that a Space Force is the answer. He worries that creating an all-new branch will just create more bureaucracy, Brumfiel reports.
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Re: Space Force

Postby RedLeader » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:40 am

NYBF wrote:
RedLeader wrote:More than likely this won’t be an entirely new branch, as you are ignorantly purporting. It sounds like this will be a small branch carved out of existing AF operations.


Stuart wrote:Vice President Mike Pence announced Thursday that the Pentagon is beginning the process of creating a sixth branch of the United States military dedicated to space that will be known as the Space Force.



You have to learn to read, my man. Or at least stay in context.

Obviously, as you can see, I'm referring to size..

Think Coast Guard vs Navy. dip ****.
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