Anti-Discrimination Laws

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Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:53 am

Since this discussion kind of took over the mass shooting thread, I figured it deserved its own thread.

I saw some interesting arguments but the one thing that gets brought up every. damn. time. is the gay wedding cake. Colorado has anti-discrimination laws that lists sexual orientation as a protected characteristic. The cake shop advertised wedding cake services but refused to sell to a gay couple in clear violation of state law. Now that the Supreme Court has decided that discrimination is apparently legal as long as you claim religious beliefs, I'm wondering where we go from here. Lawyers in the case arguing for the defendants seemed to feel it would be harder to justify discrimination based on race, but I'm curious why. They only called race a "special case" but I'd argue that laws are written to avoid "special cases". This SC decision basically opens a huge loophole in anti-discrimination laws.

So, should a business be allowed to discriminate against any group on the basis of religious beliefs? Should there even be protected classes any more?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Rocker » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 am

If the bakers refused to sell them a wedding cake, but offered an alternative product, I see no issue, and would support the bakers

If they refused service completely because of the couple's sexual orientation, then they are ***holes, and I support the customer.

It's a rather simplistic take on this specific case, but, that's my off-the-cuff thoughts.




I reserve the right to change my mind at any time, because I can.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:51 am

They did offer other products. They refused to design a wedding cake for them.


And for the record the case hasn’t been decided on or ruled upon
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 am

Rocker wrote:If the bakers refused to sell them a wedding cake, but offered an alternative product, I see no issue, and would support the bakers

If they refused service completely because of the couple's sexual orientation, then they are ***holes, and I support the customer.

It's a rather simplistic take on this specific case, but, that's my off-the-cuff thoughts.




I reserve the right to change my mind at any time, because I can.

So on that train of thought, let's say a furniture store owner refused to sell a hand-crafted African table to someone because the customer is white and therefore can't understand the traditions. It's racial discrimination which would be illegal, but the store owner is using religious basis for the discrimination. Should the customer not be allowed to purchase the table simply because of his race?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Rocker » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:45 am

I don’t follow your question. There’s no white people in Africa?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:58 am

Rocker wrote:I don’t follow your question. There’s no white people in Africa?

What would that have to do with it? There's a table. Maybe it has some sort of tribal religious significance to it so the shop owner won't sell it to a white person. The white guy is offered a wonderful plain glass table with chrome legs to fit his whiteness, but the hand-carved one won't be sold to him. Should the customer have a complaint based on racial discrimination even though the shop owner is claiming religious conviction since it's not like the customer can get this table anywhere?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby RedLeader » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:58 pm

Apparently the Baker should have just said he didn't want to bake the damn cake because he simply didn't like the way they looked....

"Get out, I think you guys are ugly..."


Boom. Legal quagmire avoided.




amirite?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 pm

RedLeader wrote:Apparently the Baker should have just said he didn't want to bake the damn cake because he simply didn't like the way they looked....

"Get out, I think you guys are ugly..."


Boom. Legal quagmire avoided.




amirite?

Take the money and make the goddamned cake would have been easier.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby The Outsider » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:41 am

People have the right to be ***holes and society has the right to treat them like ***holes for being ***holes.

Legislating this kind of **** is stupid because generally a business that employs over the discrimination tactics in it's day to day business model will not have much success, especially in the current world. Limiting your customer base for arbitrary reasons is something no good businessman would ever do.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:29 am

The Outsider wrote:People have the right to be ***holes and society has the right to treat them like ***holes for being ***holes.

Legislating this kind of **** is stupid because generally a business that employs over the discrimination tactics in it's day to day business model will not have much success, especially in the current world. Limiting your customer base for arbitrary reasons is something no good businessman would ever do.


Couldn’t have said it better myself. That won’t endear you to Clewy, unfortunately.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:35 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Rocker wrote:If the bakers refused to sell them a wedding cake, but offered an alternative product, I see no issue, and would support the bakers

If they refused service completely because of the couple's sexual orientation, then they are ***holes, and I support the customer.

It's a rather simplistic take on this specific case, but, that's my off-the-cuff thoughts.




I reserve the right to change my mind at any time, because I can.

So on that train of thought, let's say a furniture store owner refused to sell a hand-crafted African table to someone because the customer is white and therefore can't understand the traditions. It's racial discrimination which would be illegal, but the store owner is using religious basis for the discrimination. Should the customer not be allowed to purchase the table simply because of his race?


What if a Chinese woman was trying to buy the hand-crafted African table? Does that change your calculus any? You didn’t mention the race of the store owner refusing to sell the table. Are we supposed to assume he is black?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby RedLeader » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 am

Brazen331 wrote:
The Outsider wrote:People have the right to be ***holes and society has the right to treat them like ***holes for being ***holes.

Legislating this kind of **** is stupid because generally a business that employs over the discrimination tactics in it's day to day business model will not have much success, especially in the current world. Limiting your customer base for arbitrary reasons is something no good businessman would ever do.


Couldn’t have said it better myself. That won’t endear you to Clewy, unfortunately.


Or MB, for that matter...
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 am

Brazen331 wrote:
The Outsider wrote:People have the right to be ***holes and society has the right to treat them like ***holes for being ***holes.

Legislating this kind of **** is stupid because generally a business that employs over the discrimination tactics in it's day to day business model will not have much success, especially in the current world. Limiting your customer base for arbitrary reasons is something no good businessman would ever do.


Couldn’t have said it better myself. That won’t endear you to Clewy, unfortunately.

Why wouldn't that endear him to me? What is my belief on the matter that would cause his post to upset me?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:37 am

Brazen331 wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:So on that train of thought, let's say a furniture store owner refused to sell a hand-crafted African table to someone because the customer is white and therefore can't understand the traditions. It's racial discrimination which would be illegal, but the store owner is using religious basis for the discrimination. Should the customer not be allowed to purchase the table simply because of his race?


What if a Chinese woman was trying to buy the hand-crafted African table? Does that change your calculus any? You didn’t mention the race of the store owner refusing to sell the table. Are we supposed to assume he is black?

Because the laws only care about the race of the person being discriminated against which is the basis of this conversation. Try to keep up.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:42 am

RedLeader wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
Couldn’t have said it better myself. That won’t endear you to Clewy, unfortunately.


Or MB, for that matter...

Hey, it makes all the sense in the world when we're talking about small business and even large businesses where there's an alternative. What happens when Waste management decides not to take out the trash in black neighborhoods?

It's the application of the law that is the issue here.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:46 am

Other than it being illegal, I’m sure another company would pop up and do it.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby The Outsider » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:52 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Other than it being illegal, I’m sure another company would pop up and do it.



Yep, and waste management would lose a **** ton of business on principle. Our society is tolerant enough now of our differences, in most areas anyway, that such behavior by a huge, well known company would be corrected through social backlash from their customers.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby The Outsider » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:53 am

Brazen331 wrote:
The Outsider wrote:People have the right to be ***holes and society has the right to treat them like ***holes for being ***holes.

Legislating this kind of **** is stupid because generally a business that employs over the discrimination tactics in it's day to day business model will not have much success, especially in the current world. Limiting your customer base for arbitrary reasons is something no good businessman would ever do.


Couldn’t have said it better myself. That won’t endear you to Clewy, unfortunately.



Stop projecting your desperate need for male affection on to me. I don't post here looking to endear myself to anyone.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:15 pm

There’s a coffee shop in Oakland with a policy of refusing to serve police. They say that police officers are offensive to their clientele. As long as the officers in question are white and male, perhaps this is a discrimination policy that Collusion Clewy can support?
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Phantom Phenom » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:29 pm

Technically, everyone is afforded the same rights and protections. But such regulations are put into place because there is such bad discrimination against minorities. Technically, minorities aren’t supposed to be discriminated against, but they are, so these regulations have to be put into place.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:58 pm

Brazen331 wrote:There’s a coffee shop in Oakland with a policy of refusing to serve police. They say that police officers are offensive to their clientele. As long as the officers in question are white and male, perhaps this is a discrimination policy that Collusion Clewy can support?

I'm still not going out on a date with you no matter how many times you mention me. I'm a happily married man.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:27 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:There’s a coffee shop in Oakland with a policy of refusing to serve police. They say that police officers are offensive to their clientele. As long as the officers in question are white and male, perhaps this is a discrimination policy that Collusion Clewy can support?

I'm still not going out on a date with you no matter how many times you mention me. I'm a happily married man.


I’ll bet your partner is praying Mueller is able to find some collusion.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:33 am

Brazen331 wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:I'm still not going out on a date with you no matter how many times you mention me. I'm a happily married man.


I’ll bet your partner is praying Mueller is able to find some collusion.

Wrong thread. Maybe some day stupidity will be a protected class but for now, get your dumb ass to the correct thread if you want to continue whining about an investigation that is bringing down your boy's administration piece by piece.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:40 am

Back on topic, Harvard is prepping to defend itself in court that it put a cap on the number of Asian-Americans admitted. Their reasoning is tied to affirmative action laws (which I don't agree with) that essentially worked as a loophole for universities thanks to a 1978 SC ruling.

https://www.ksat.com/education/harvard-discrimination-case-could-be-tried-this-summer
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby The Outsider » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:37 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Back on topic, Harvard is prepping to defend itself in court that it put a cap on the number of Asian-Americans admitted. Their reasoning is tied to affirmative action laws (which I don't agree with) that essentially worked as a loophole for universities thanks to a 1978 SC ruling.

https://www.ksat.com/education/harvard-discrimination-case-could-be-tried-this-summer



They used anti-discrimination law as an excuse to discriminate against minorities?

I thought these Ivy League fellas were supposed to be smart.
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:56 pm

Asian Privilege
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:32 am

I feel like people who don’t think there need to be federal laws against discrimination have not experienced certain areas of the country. There are a lot of places where discrimination would not be held in check by the mass backlash because the places are remote and not covered by the news.

Hell, do you not remember the St. Pete race riots? When business owners of grocery stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods were charging more than the same owners in white neighborhoods. Is that really ‘OK’ because the community will have a backlash? No, I’m guessing most blamed the folks who protested by burning down the offending stores and excuse the bad business behavior that led to it...
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Re: Anti-Discrimination Laws

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:52 am

Ken Carson wrote:I feel like people who don’t think there need to be federal laws against discrimination have not experienced certain areas of the country. There are a lot of places where discrimination would not be held in check by the mass backlash because the places are remote and not covered by the news.

Hell, do you not remember the St. Pete race riots? When business owners of grocery stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods were charging more than the same owners in white neighborhoods. Is that really ‘OK’ because the community will have a backlash? No, I’m guessing most blamed the folks who protested by burning down the offending stores and excuse the bad business behavior that led to it...



I don’t know anyone who argues there shouldn’t be anti discrimination laws at the federal level
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