US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:40 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:The Fed sucks. Paul is right, it needs to go

Don't ever call me radical. Ever.




Almost everyone has a radical idea or two. Some have many more. I’m certain there are many people who would think lots of my political ideas are radical. I’m cool with that.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby TheChefO » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:18 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:The Fed sucks. Paul is right, it needs to go

Don't ever call me radical. Ever.


The Fed and the income tax were only added in 1913 ... and in a shady manor at that.

Prior to, there were many attempts at powerful people attempting to institute a "national bank".

They've been at this a long time.

The fact they were successful in 1913 is not indicative that such a policy/institution is above questioning.
In fact, at the end of such a questioning I'd imagine the majority would agree with Paul & Zarn's statement.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Don't ever call me radical. Ever.




Almost everyone has a radical idea or two. Some have many more. I’m certain there are many people who would think lots of my political ideas are radical. I’m cool with that.

I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby TheChefO » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Almost everyone has a radical idea or two. Some have many more. I’m certain there are many people who would think lots of my political ideas are radical. I’m cool with that.

I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.


I'll see your radical and ramp it up to include every other region around the world where we get the luxury of playing world cop and bearing the full financial & physical load.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PetePierson » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:57 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Almost everyone has a radical idea or two. Some have many more. I’m certain there are many people who would think lots of my political ideas are radical. I’m cool with that.

I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.


I don't think it is radical at all. It is common sense. Something completely void in our government regardless whose in power.

Let the animals kill each other.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby HamBone » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:02 pm

PetePierson wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.


I don't think it is radical at all. It is common sense. Something completely void in our government regardless whose in power.


That idea doesn't seem to radical...at least on this board it doesn't.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby deltbucs » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:45 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Almost everyone has a radical idea or two. Some have many more. I’m certain there are many people who would think lots of my political ideas are radical. I’m cool with that.

I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.

We're in the middle of deploying 3,000 more to Saudi Arabia as we speak....
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:21 pm

deltbucs wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I think my most radical idea is to pull up all stakes in the Middle East and totally abandon the region.

We're in the middle of deploying 3,000 more to Saudi Arabia as we speak....

I know. Sucks. But as long as the US considers them an ally, this is what we're going to see. Unfortunately, neither party wants to end that relationship so we're stuck with this bullshit.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:41 pm

I want to end it!!!
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby TheChefO » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:16 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:I want to end it!!!


If you only voted for it last time ... perhaps Trump would have listened. :P


Seriously, this is one of the most clear examples in modern history that policy is not really set by vote.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:33 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:I want to end it!!!

...yelled an unfamiliar voice from Epstein's cell.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby TheChefO » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:37 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:I want to end it!!!

...yelled an unfamiliar voice from Epstein's cell.


As he smirked at the other cop and continued strangling Epstein's near lifeless body.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:43 pm

TheChefO wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:...yelled an unfamiliar voice from Epstein's cell.


As he smirked at the other cop and continued strangling Epstein's near lifeless body.

As "Hip to be Square" plays loudly.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Selmon Rules » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:No, no, Zarni. Clearly I "alarmed" Ken by saying the median disposable income number was subjective. And since we all know how much better of a man he is than me, clearly I'm wrong and that number is not subjective. It is a number after all, and numbers are perfect.



I'm happy to say when i disagree with Ken (as I did here) as well as when I disagree with you (as I did earlier).

I do think Ken's #'s are the best we have for the discussion at hand....which to be honest, I'm not even sure what it is about anymore -- it started as a simple statement that we in the US are better off than most people - that seems fairly straighforward to me. Same with his clarification on how we define people who "struggle" -- he said people who can't pay the necessities are people who are truly struggling....people who are going out 5 times a week for dinner aren't struggling. Those to me seem like very simple truths. Just as your point about potential subjectivity in calculations about disposable income. 10 of us could have access to the same data set and all legitimately try to calculate the median disposable income and we would get 10 different answers. I think most would be in the same ballpark, but they wouldn't be identical.

A bit late to the party and I may have missed it but MB mentioned in his posts that he would still have to pay health insurance out of his disposable income while the UK numbers would already have that included. Don't know how that would change the overall numbers so we could compare apples to apples. US having to still pay for health insurance kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison....

JBs numbers make for a good starting point though
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby deltbucs » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:33 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

I'm happy to say when i disagree with Ken (as I did here) as well as when I disagree with you (as I did earlier).

I do think Ken's #'s are the best we have for the discussion at hand....which to be honest, I'm not even sure what it is about anymore -- it started as a simple statement that we in the US are better off than most people - that seems fairly straighforward to me. Same with his clarification on how we define people who "struggle" -- he said people who can't pay the necessities are people who are truly struggling....people who are going out 5 times a week for dinner aren't struggling. Those to me seem like very simple truths. Just as your point about potential subjectivity in calculations about disposable income. 10 of us could have access to the same data set and all legitimately try to calculate the median disposable income and we would get 10 different answers. I think most would be in the same ballpark, but they wouldn't be identical.

A bit late to the party and I may have missed it but MB mentioned in his posts that he would still have to pay health insurance out of his disposable income while the UK numbers would already have that included. Don't know how that would change the overall numbers so we could compare apples to apples. US having to still pay for health insurance kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison....

JBs numbers make for a good starting point though

I think it was somewhere between 5k-10k out of pocket on average we spend on healthcare per year. Could be on either end of that spectrum. I forgot, but it's probably out there buried somewhere on the internet. I know we spend more than twice as much per capita off the top of my head, but that would include employer contributions.

I know everyone in this forum hates universal healthcare, but that's a reason it's good for small businesses and startups. It's tough for them to be able to afford healthcare that people need, so it's a lot easier for bigger businesses to bring people in.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:39 pm

I absolutely agree that it would on the surface make US businesses more competitive on the world stage as the cost of employment would immediately drop.

In my long “how I’d fix healthcare” post, one thing I mentioned was looking at the possibility of disassociating health insurance from employment
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:53 am

Selmon Rules wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

I'm happy to say when i disagree with Ken (as I did here) as well as when I disagree with you (as I did earlier).

I do think Ken's #'s are the best we have for the discussion at hand....which to be honest, I'm not even sure what it is about anymore -- it started as a simple statement that we in the US are better off than most people - that seems fairly straighforward to me. Same with his clarification on how we define people who "struggle" -- he said people who can't pay the necessities are people who are truly struggling....people who are going out 5 times a week for dinner aren't struggling. Those to me seem like very simple truths. Just as your point about potential subjectivity in calculations about disposable income. 10 of us could have access to the same data set and all legitimately try to calculate the median disposable income and we would get 10 different answers. I think most would be in the same ballpark, but they wouldn't be identical.

A bit late to the party and I may have missed it but MB mentioned in his posts that he would still have to pay health insurance out of his disposable income while the UK numbers would already have that included. Don't know how that would change the overall numbers so we could compare apples to apples. US having to still pay for health insurance kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison....

JBs numbers make for a good starting point though

Well, actually, the UK citizens are highly taxed for that "free" healthcare, so, in that sense, it is taken from their disposable income. It just comes out in the form of a tax rather than a premium.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby deltbucs » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:05 am

Buc2 wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:A bit late to the party and I may have missed it but MB mentioned in his posts that he would still have to pay health insurance out of his disposable income while the UK numbers would already have that included. Don't know how that would change the overall numbers so we could compare apples to apples. US having to still pay for health insurance kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison....

JBs numbers make for a good starting point though

Well, actually, the UK citizens are highly taxed for that "free" healthcare, so, in that sense, it is taken from their disposable income. It just comes out in the form of a tax rather than a premium.

It's not free. It's included. And it's less than half of what we pay per capita.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:05 am

deltbucs wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Well, actually, the UK citizens are highly taxed for that "free" healthcare, so, in that sense, it is taken from their disposable income. It just comes out in the form of a tax rather than a premium.

It's not free. It's included. And it's less than half of what we pay per capita.

It's also terrible.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:06 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
deltbucs wrote:It's not free. It's included. And it's less than half of what we pay per capita.

It's also terrible.

And it's very difficult to put a price on quality of care.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PanteraCanes » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:22 am

deltbucs wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:A bit late to the party and I may have missed it but MB mentioned in his posts that he would still have to pay health insurance out of his disposable income while the UK numbers would already have that included. Don't know how that would change the overall numbers so we could compare apples to apples. US having to still pay for health insurance kind of makes it an apples to oranges comparison....

JBs numbers make for a good starting point though

I think it was somewhere between 5k-10k out of pocket on average we spend on healthcare per year. Could be on either end of that spectrum. I forgot, but it's probably out there buried somewhere on the internet. I know we spend more than twice as much per capita off the top of my head, but that would include employer contributions.

I know everyone in this forum hates universal healthcare, but that's a reason it's good for small businesses and startups. It's tough for them to be able to afford healthcare that people need, so it's a lot easier for bigger businesses to bring people in.



Is this average per overall population, average per people using any kind of health care (work provided, medicare, medicaid, etc), or is this just the average for people who pay with company sponsored insurance?
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:27 am

Buc2 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:It's also terrible.

And it's very difficult to put a price on quality of care.

Right.

The UK can't keep doctors either, because the government dictates their pay and most of them leave the country once they have graduated.

The UK system is like a worse version of the VA, bad doctors, long waits, tons of malpractice with a very difficult path of holding them accountable for it.

It's absolutely the worst case scenario for this country in my eyes.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:27 am

Probably one of the best discussions I have ever heard on helping alleviate poverty -- with a particular focus on children who live in poverty.

https://www.econtalk.org/susan-mayer-on ... -cant-buy/


It's as comprehensive a discussion as I have ever heard - they talk about addressing poverty through transfer payments (UBI, Negative Income Tax, increasing welfare), through structural change (schools, etc), through community involvement and through behavioral assessment of parents with children in poverty. And what the pros/cons and benefits/costs of each of these solutions are. What is really neat is how nuanced she gets -- saying stuff like "X" policy helps until point "Y" but then it adds nothing more no matter how much more "X" is adopted.


Some of the methods she used when studying the impact of policies/potential policies was incredibly interesting to a stats geek like me.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby TheChefO » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:46 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Probably one of the best discussions I have ever heard on helping alleviate poverty -- with a particular focus on children who live in poverty.

https://www.econtalk.org/susan-mayer-on ... -cant-buy/


It's as comprehensive a discussion as I have ever heard - they talk about addressing poverty through transfer payments (UBI, Negative Income Tax, increasing welfare), through structural change (schools, etc), through community involvement and through behavioral assessment of parents with children in poverty. And what the pros/cons and benefits/costs of each of these solutions are. What is really neat is how nuanced she gets -- saying stuff like "X" policy helps until point "Y" but then it adds nothing more no matter how much more "X" is adopted.


Some of the methods she used when studying the impact of policies/potential policies was incredibly interesting to a stats geek like me.


Thanks for sharing Zarn.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:10 pm

Peter Daou
@peterdaou
QUESTION, AMERICA:

Why do we have trillions of $$ for endless wars and tax breaks for billionaires ... but our working people can't afford medical bills, education, and housing?
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:45 pm

I'm delighted Bernie Sanders agenda has been embraced by JB. Happy to finally have you in the fold.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:23 pm

PetePierson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:It's been an interesting distraction from what appears to be slowing economy that is one holiday shopping season away from shrinking GDP in the 4th quarter.


Holiday shopping / revenue has been on decline for a decade. Both the stock and housing markets are still pretty strong. Claim a recession / drastic downturn is coming long enough and you (in general) are bound to be right.


Pretty strong start to Holiday shopping so far!
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:16 pm

PetePierson wrote:
PetePierson wrote:
Holiday shopping / revenue has been on decline for a decade. Both the stock and housing markets are still pretty strong. Claim a recession / drastic downturn is coming long enough and you (in general) are bound to be right.


Pretty strong start to Holiday shopping so far!

You must be reading fake news.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:22 pm

Buc2 wrote:
PetePierson wrote:
Pretty strong start to Holiday shopping so far!

You must be reading fake news.


Lefty "news" organizations like cnbc and cnn are reporting it; $7.4 Billion on Friday, alone.

That must have been tough for the editors to report.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:27 pm

PetePierson wrote:
Buc2 wrote:You must be reading fake news.


Lefty "news" organizations like cnbc and cnn are reporting it; $7.4 Billion on Friday, alone.

That must have been tough for the editors to report.

I was being facetious because of the reactions from some about financial news I posted a couple days ago.
Basically, we aren't allowed to report anything positive about the economy and if we do, it's just fake news.
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