US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby The Outsider » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:50 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Growth reported at only around 2.4% this quarter. Not nearly as strong as hoped for.

Cost of labor rose at an annualized 3% rate this quarter



Shocking, really.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:04 pm

I’m surprised the growth number is that low, hopefully we bounce back.

Not surprised the cost of labor is rising so quickly as I’m sure rapidly increasing benefits costs are the major component of it
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby The Outsider » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:55 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:I’m surprised the growth number is that low, hopefully we bounce back.

Not surprised the cost of labor is rising so quickly as I’m sure rapidly increasing benefits costs are the major component of it



I'm not. It's the erratic nature of the new government finally taking effect. I've said time and time again that Trump's economic impact won't show until about 1.5 to 2 years in to his term. Now we're starting to see it.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:00 pm

Lol
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby The Outsider » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:44 pm

Buc2 wrote:Lol



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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:29 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Growth reported at only around 2.4% this quarter. Not nearly as strong as hoped for.

Cost of labor rose at an annualized 3% rate this quarter

Echo boomers sliding into social security is tightening the labor market.

Suits me.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 04, 2018 3:48 pm

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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Stuart » Fri May 04, 2018 3:53 pm

100k is poverty in san fran.......

200k is the new middle class....and that might be low.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri May 04, 2018 3:54 pm

Stuart wrote:100k is poverty in san fran.......

200k is the new middle class....and that might be low.



Do you understand what “top 50%” means?
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 04, 2018 3:58 pm

Elsewhere...

CNBC reported Friday that the unemployment rate in April fell to 3.9%, "an 18-year low." In total, non-farm payrolls rose by 164,000.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 04, 2018 3:59 pm

The news is even better for African Americans. Amid reports that opinion of Trump among African-Americans has improved dramatically since Kanye West donned his MAGA hat and declared his love for his "brother," the unemployment rate among black Americans has now hit a record low.

"The unemployment rate for black workers hit the lowest on record in April, according to the latest jobs figures released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics Friday," the Washington Examiner reports. "The unemployment rate for black workers dropped to 6.6 percent, beating the previous record low of 6.8 percent set in December."
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 04, 2018 4:00 pm

While it's not quite record-setting, the jobless rate among Hispanics has now tied a 12-year low at 4.8%.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri May 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Pretty hard to argue right now that the job market is better than it’s been in a long, long time
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 04, 2018 4:10 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Pretty hard to argue right now that the job market is better than it’s been in a long, long time


Indeed. Good news all around.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat May 05, 2018 9:57 am

California has surpassed the UK to become the world's 5th largest economy.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Fri May 18, 2018 8:01 pm

By the end of the year, bitcoin is expected to use up 0.5% of the world’s electricity – roughly the same amount as the Netherlands.

By late next year, bitcoin could be consuming 1.8% of global electricity – more than what all the world’s solar panels currently produce.

(Via Grist)


Wowzers.. this will no doubt open the doors for the government to try and fully exploit - errrr - regulate the **** out of this space.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 am

Holy taxes, Batman!

Chicago Economists Propose Raising Property Tax, Pension-Funding Plan Punishes People Trying to Leave

Nick Kangadis, @TruthOfChicago
May. 18. 2018

If it weren’t for Chicago politicians and "experts," Illinois would be a great place to live. I grew up just north of Chicago, and it’s a shame to see how much worse the “Land of Lincoln” has become since leaving. Many other Illinois residents have left the state in the last few years, more than any other state in the country.

With this latest report that three Chicago economists have proposed, the overtaxed populace of Illinois — whether they stay or try to leave Illinois — should pay increased property taxes in order to fund the State of Illinois’ “very large unfunded pension liability.”

By the way, Illinois already has the second highest property taxes in the U.S. as of April 2017 (2.13 percent), only trailing New Jersey (2.31 percent). The three authors of the proposal — Thomas Haasl, Rick Mattoon and Thomas Walstrum — say that “the tax rate required to pay off the pension debt over 30 years would be about 1%.”

That doesn’t mean they want to lower Illinois property tax to one percent. It means that they’re suggesting an additional one percent on top of the already high rate. The increase would make Illinois’ property tax the highest in the country by far.

What’s even more telling is how the authors of the proposal say without saying that the new property tax would dictate how much people who want to get away from high taxation by leaving the state could charge for their home that they would be selling.

According to the proposal:

Current homeowners would not be happy about this, but it would be a good result for the Illinois economy. That’s because the new taxes wouldn’t affect people thinking of moving to Illinois. While they would have to pay higher property taxes, that would be offset by not having to pay as much for their new homes. In addition, current homeowners would not be able to avoid the new tax by selling their homes and moving because home prices should reflect the new tax burden quickly.


Basically, Illinois residents attempting to sell their homes and move to another state would have to drop the price of their home in order to compensate prospective buyers for the increased property tax.

The proposal even admits that people would have a tough time paying the increased tax rate:

Our calculations suggest that, even under the best-case scenario, the additional tax bill is quite high, and some households would certainly struggle to pay it. But given the choice between paying off the debt via higher income, sales, or property taxes, we maintain that the property tax is the best of three painful options.


But the authors of the proposal simply don’t care about the “pain” they cause residents as long as Illinois can pay off the pension debt that they created.

Perhaps the most egregious statement in the whole proposal document is the very last sentence of the proposal’s conclusion.

“In future work, we will explore additional options for spreading the pain, including expanding the base to cover rental and commercial properties, and options for making the tax progressive,” the proposal concluded.

Wow! Illinois is perceived as one of the more progressive states in the country. But now, they are flat out saying that they want to take from everybody, not just the rich.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 22, 2018 1:00 pm

That’s a damn shame. They’re destroying their own economy.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 22, 2018 1:03 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:That’s a damn shame. They’re destroying their own economy.

It was destroyed a while ago. Their just gonna make it worse.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue May 22, 2018 1:40 pm

i read about the Illinois tax on a different site. It's crazy. At some point no matter how liberal a city/state is, when its citizens are so overly taxed, they will leave. And who is it that leaves first? The wealthy and middle class who can afford it. Trapping the low income folks and city/state budgets in an even worse downward spiral.



One thing that the article I read (and the one above) failed to mention is if the state has actually addressed the pension schemes that caused the problem in the first place. Or are they still offering the same pensions that are bankrupting the state in the first place?



---------------------------


On a tangent...this is why it is crucial for high tax proponents to see their ideas implemented at the federal level...because when people have choices (through where they live) at some point they are going to exercise that choice to pack up. If everyone where equally highly taxed moving wouldn't really be a question.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:i read about the Illinois tax on a different site. It's crazy. At some point no matter how liberal a city/state is, when its citizens are so overly taxed, they will leave. And who is it that leaves first? The wealthy and middle class who can afford it. Trapping the low income folks and city/state budgets in an even worse downward spiral.



One thing that the article I read (and the one above) failed to mention is if the state has actually addressed the pension schemes that caused the problem in the first place. Or are they still offering the same pensions that are bankrupting the state in the first place?



---------------------------


On a tangent...this is why it is crucial for high tax proponents to see their ideas implemented at the federal level...because when people have choices (through where they live) at some point they are going to exercise that choice to pack up. If everyone where equally highly taxed moving wouldn't really be a question.

The law, as proposed, is even trying to make sure that a homeowner that wants to sell and leave the state is still stuck paying the tax by mandating what they can sell it for in order to offset the tax burden for the buyer. I have to wonder if that would hold up to a Constitutional challenge. I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what, if any, Constitutional law that would violate.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue May 22, 2018 1:56 pm

Buc2 wrote:The law, as proposed, is even trying to make sure that a homeowner that wants to sell and leave the state is still stuck paying the tax by mandating what they can sell it for in order to offset the tax burden for the buyer. I have to wonder if that would hold up to a Constitutional challenge. I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what, if any, Constitutional law that would violate.


I'll be honest, I didn't really understand this part of it...there was something similar in NJ not too long ago if I recall.

How does it impact the price of the house for sale? And how does the exiting person have extra taxes?


So if I close on my house today...I am responsible for property taxes from Jan 1 to May 22...the new owner would be responsible for May 23 to Dec 31st. How is this new proposal different? Does the seller have to pre-pay future taxes?
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue May 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Sounds like the reverse of an impact fee. (Tax on people moving to Florida city)
http://www.cape-coral-daily-breeze.com/page/content.detail/id/543082/County-increases-impact-fees.html?nav=5011
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 22, 2018 2:07 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Buc2 wrote:The law, as proposed, is even trying to make sure that a homeowner that wants to sell and leave the state is still stuck paying the tax by mandating what they can sell it for in order to offset the tax burden for the buyer. I have to wonder if that would hold up to a Constitutional challenge. I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what, if any, Constitutional law that would violate.


I'll be honest, I didn't really understand this part of it...there was something similar in NJ not too long ago if I recall.

How does it impact the price of the house for sale? And how does the exiting person have extra taxes?


So if I close on my house today...I am responsible for property taxes from Jan 1 to May 22...the new owner would be responsible for May 23 to Dec 31st. How is this new proposal different? Does the seller have to pre-pay future taxes?


Obviously, I'm not 100% sure what that part of the proposal means either.

Current homeowners would not be happy about this, but it would be a good result for the Illinois economy. That’s because the new taxes wouldn’t affect people thinking of moving to Illinois. While they would have to pay higher property taxes, that would be offset by not having to pay as much for their new homes. In addition, current homeowners would not be able to avoid the new tax by selling their homes and moving because home prices should reflect the new tax burden quickly.


What I make out of that quote is if you sell you're home for, say, $300K, the 1% tax increase is deducted from your sell price and sent to the state. Not a prorated portion either...so $3K is deducted, meaning you effectively sold your home for $297K. Meanwhile, the incoming owner pays his prorated share of the property tax, but it will be based on the old tax rate.

Edit: I forgot to mention that, for simplicity, my example is based on the sell price being the same as the assessed value which, as most of us know, is rarely the same.
Last edited by Buc2 on Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 22, 2018 2:08 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Buc2 wrote:The law, as proposed, is even trying to make sure that a homeowner that wants to sell and leave the state is still stuck paying the tax by mandating what they can sell it for in order to offset the tax burden for the buyer. I have to wonder if that would hold up to a Constitutional challenge. I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what, if any, Constitutional law that would violate.


I'll be honest, I didn't really understand this part of it...there was something similar in NJ not too long ago if I recall.

How does it impact the price of the house for sale? And how does the exiting person have extra taxes?


So if I close on my house today...I am responsible for property taxes from Jan 1 to May 22...the new owner would be responsible for May 23 to Dec 31st. How is this new proposal different? Does the seller have to pre-pay future taxes?


The higher property taxes will lower the amount of house people can afford and therefore lower the overall Illinois real estate market. For example if the new taxes increased by 1% on a $300K home you’re talking $3K or an extra $250/month for the mortgage. Some buyer who can afford $2K mortgage would no longer be able to afford the home that’s now $2250 per month. The state is screwing the homeowners by effectively making them lower their home value.

I’m not sure if this answers your question, but this is my understanding.
Last edited by PrimeMinister on Tue May 22, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue May 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Thanks guys...I get that it puts downward pressure on home prices...but I'm not sure I would call it a tax or anything like that. And homeowners aren't necessarily forced to reduce the price of the house.

Semantics I know...but I just wanted to be certain it wasn't a fee or an out of pocket tax.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 22, 2018 2:17 pm

This will also have a domino effect. The $500K buyer who has to downsize because of the extra $417/mo tax burden will likely move out of state anyway and sell at a smaller loss. Some other homeowners will simply lose their homes do to the tax burden. As this continues the overall health of the real estate market will suffer because taxes are suppressing prices and home sales while also causing loss of property taxes from those who lose their home due to inability to pay the new rate.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Thanks guys...I get that it puts downward pressure on home prices...but I'm not sure I would call it a tax or anything like that. And homeowners aren't necessarily forced to reduce the price of the house.

Semantics I know...but I just wanted to be certain it wasn't a fee or an out of pocket tax.

Without more details, it's impossible to know exactly what that proposal is suggesting.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby RedLeader » Tue May 22, 2018 8:42 pm

10 largest companies in the US by annual revenue

1 Walmart $500bn
2 Exxon Mobil $244bn
3 Berkshire Hathaway $242bn
4 Apple $229bn
5 UnitedHealth $201bn
6 McKesson $199bn
7 CVS $185bn
8 Amazon $178bn (first time in top 10)
9 AT&T $161bn
10 General Motors $157bn

Fortune 500, 2018




And people say retail is dead.
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Re: US ECONOMY News and Discussion Thread

Postby Buc2 » Wed May 23, 2018 7:46 am

RedLeader wrote:10 largest companies in the US by annual revenue

1 Walmart $500bn
2 Exxon Mobil $244bn
3 Berkshire Hathaway $242bn
4 Apple $229bn
5 UnitedHealth $201bn
6 McKesson $199bn
7 CVS $185bn
8 Amazon $178bn (first time in top 10)
9 AT&T $161bn
10 General Motors $157bn

Fortune 500, 2018




And people say retail is dead.

I think they say brick & mortar retail is dead. Other than Walmart and CVS, what other, predominantly, brick & mortar retail companies are killing it? Best Buy? Nope. Sears? Nope. JC Penny? Nope. Kohl's? Nope. Barnes & Noble? Nope.
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