FISA abuse memo released

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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby The Outsider » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:59 pm

Sigh, I'm up at my farm in Alabama and all of this **** just makes me want to sell my places down in Clearwater and just move up here full time. I have 250 acres in the middle of nowhere. None of this **** matters in the least bit out here.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 pm

The Outsider wrote:Sigh, I'm up at my farm in Alabama and all of this **** just makes me want to sell my places down in Clearwater and just move up here full time. I have 250 acres in the middle of nowhere. None of this **** matters in the least bit out here.

Sounds like paradise.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby The Outsider » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:22 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
The Outsider wrote:Sigh, I'm up at my farm in Alabama and all of this **** just makes me want to sell my places down in Clearwater and just move up here full time. I have 250 acres in the middle of nowhere. None of this **** matters in the least bit out here.

Sounds like paradise.


It is.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:40 am

Ken Carson wrote:So this GOP authored memo casts the Dems in a bad light. Color me shocked.

Thing is, I totally believe that the Dems did this. Or at least could. Hard to not believe that they abused political power to try to alter an election or wrestle power away from Trump since we already know they used nefarious means to screw Bernie Sanders out of the primary.

What drives me absolutely nuts is that folks are trying to make it one thing or the other. Trump probably did some shady things, and if not criminal, bordering on it. The Dems probably did some shady things, if not criminal, bordering on it. There are no winners here, just people pandering to their bases who are essentially existing on separate planets.

I read the memo, and it looks like the Steele dossier was a hit job that was a thin pretext for getting a FISA warrant. But like I said at the beginning, the memo has an obvious bias, and you have to be a mouth breathing cretin to take every claim in there as gospel. More than likely, the truth is somewhere in the middle in which literally everyone named in the memo, dossier and those responsible for producing both are total shitbags serving their own agendas at the expense of the American people.

I think it's pretty clear that the FBI, JD, and president, as well as the roaches surrounding him are all guilty of at least something. And not a single one will go to jail. Sad!


Well said all around.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby mdb1958 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:20 am

The Outsider wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Sounds like paradise.


It is.



Does grandma know your already saying its yours?
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby The Outsider » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:53 am

mdb1958 wrote:
The Outsider wrote:
It is.



Does grandma know your already saying its yours?



Well, considering my father and I purchased it jointly under a LLC.... Also, my grandparents are dead you fucknuts.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:23 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Page 4, section one. Says that Steele created the dossier and was employed by the Clinton campaign (We all knew that)

section 1a. This was not disclosed to the FISA court (irrelevant if the dossier contained evidence of a federal crime)

section1b. States again that Steele was being paid by the Clinton Campaign (We all know that)

Section 2. Says that Carter Page went to Russia and it was reported in the news. Steele mentioned it in the press. (The memo is correct that none of this corroborates the dossier, but it conveniently leaves out that it doesn't disprove it either)

Section 2a. Steele was "suspended then terminated as an FBI source" for talking to the media. (Does not corroborate or disprove the findings in the dossier)

Section 2b. Steele talking to the media means he became an unrilaiable source for the FBI (That is for the FBI, The FISA court, and the DOJ to determine and wouldn't you know it, he lost his informant "job")

Section 3. Steele did not want Donald Trump to become President because he told a guy so. ( Perhaps the findings in the dossier led him to this conclusion. Again, Steele's political leanings only tell you perhaps why he agreed to the job of creating the dossier, not what is in it.)

Section 3a. The guy who Steele told he didn't want Trump to win? his wife worked for Fusion GPS that hired Steele. (about the fishiest thing in the whole memo.)

Section 4. The FBI was in the process of corroborating the dossier when Comey briefed Trump about it and Flaming Libtard Comey said himself it was "salacious and unverified" (probably because it was indeed salacious and in the process of being verified or disproven) McCabe testified (what we already knew) that the Steele Dossier was why the FISA warrant was granted in the first place. (And again, Steele's political leanings don't mean **** if the dossier has evidence of a crime)

Section 5. There is no evidence of any connection between Page and Popodopolous. The FBI guy who determined this texed his mistress and said he didn't like Trump and then there's vague talk of a conspiracy. (I think they're dragging some other folks into the mud here)


End of the Day. Nothing in this memo is new. Nothing in this memo disproves anything we've heard about what's in the dossier. The FBI was trying to sort this mess out and the President Fired the director because of "the Russia thing" and here we are.


Nothingburger.


The problem with this breakdown is if Rosenstein appointed Mueller to investigate President Sanders based on opposition research paid for by Donald Trump and the RNC you would be going ballistic and each one of your sectional bullet points above would have a diametrically different conclusion.

Do you really expect us to believe that you would be saying: ‘but we don’t know what’s in the dossier,’ ‘it’s evidence,’ ‘there could be some true things in there,’ if Trump paid for it and Steele was hell bent on sabotaging Sanders? That you would be saying ‘nothingburger’ ‘wait for Mueller’ if none of the above cited facts changed but you just switched Trump’s name with Sanders’?

Well, hopefully you do believe you would be saying this because somebody has to I guess. I remember you calling James Comey a ‘boy scout’ in the Russia thread a couple months back. You probably still think he is.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby RedLeader » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:23 pm

MB is still playing one foot in, one foot out... lol. He’s not sure what direction he wants to take this.

He’ll give you an entire premise based on bias, and tell everyone we can have our ‘**** show’... and then say - “but, but, let’s wait on Mueller, like I’ve been saying all along”...
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:01 pm

How can you argue that the FISA warrant was on the up and up when it was granted based on information gleaned by 2 rabid partisans? Both Steele and Michael Isikoff cannot be trusted. Not only is Isikoff an MSNBC contributor ( he’s always on these Leftist news entertainment programs) but he reported no collaborating information. Isikoff is a cheerleader not a reporter.

They may as well have used something Chis Matthews or Keith Olbermann wrote to collaborate the Steele dossier. There’s hardly any difference between those two and Isikoff. But I guess it’s wrong to even bring this up because we are endangering national security, slandering law enforcement, and getting in bed with Putin by doing so according to Democrats and John McCain.

I think the majority of Dems actually believe the whole thing is a complete fraud. That’s the reason for the incessant begging for Mueller and Rosenstein to be fired. It’s the only way to try and save face.

One other point, David Corn is mention too, the worst of the worst. Having him and Isikoff mentioned in this memo is the equivalent of having the FBI and DOJ associated with Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones. It makes them look utterly absurd. This is the major reason why they fought so hard to get names redacted. I mean, go ahead and redact the names, we can still figure out who Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein, Page and so on are. We know their job titles.
Last edited by Brazen331 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:11 pm

RedLeader wrote:MB is still playing one foot in, one foot out... lol. He’s not sure what direction he wants to take this.

He’ll give you an entire premise based on bias, and tell everyone we can have our ‘**** show’... and then say - “but, but, let’s wait on Mueller, like I’ve been saying all along”...

One day we'll look back on this thread and say we remember when.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:MB is still playing one foot in, one foot out... lol. He’s not sure what direction he wants to take this.

He’ll give you an entire premise based on bias, and tell everyone we can have our ‘**** show’... and then say - “but, but, let’s wait on Mueller, like I’ve been saying all along”...

One day we'll look back on this thread and say we remember when.


Section 4 of your examination: you just gloss over the fact that McCabe testified there would have been no approval without the dossier, just by casually announcing ‘we all knew this.’ You do realize that the current Democrat talking point is that the dossier was NOT the reason for the surveillance, and this is just a diversion to try to undermine Mueller? Arn’t some Dem Congressmen who were present even saying that McCabe did NOT testify that the dossier was the reason, so desperate are they to separate themselves from a fact you say that we all already knew? Apparently they don’t already know that the dossier was the reason for beginning this wild goose chase.

You do realize that a majority of your party does not agree with you on this, at least publicly?
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby bucfanclw » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:39 pm

Brazen coming in and defending his boy even during the Super Bowl. Impressive dedication. Sad, but impressive.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:17 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Brazen coming in and defending his boy even during the Super Bowl. Impressive dedication. Sad, but impressive.


I know. I had to work today unfortunately, Clewy.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:19 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Brazen coming in and defending his boy even during the Super Bowl. Impressive dedication. Sad, but impressive.


I know. I had to work today unfortunately, Clewy.

Well if you work like you talk politics, you definitely fucked up my order.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby RedLeader » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
I know. I had to work today unfortunately, Clewy.

Well if you work like you talk politics, you definitely fucked up my order.


Damn.. hahahaha.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:40 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
I know. I had to work today unfortunately, Clewy.

Well if you work like you talk politics, you definitely fucked up my order.


Good one, MB. Hopefully the Schiff memo comes out soon, looking forward to reading your glowing review.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:32 am

Hey look, here's some video of Carter Page speaking in Moscow while working for the Trump campaign. The odd thing was this was at a commencement address for an economics school that made no real sense and left many students wondering why it even occurred since he could not take questions due to his inability to speak Russian.

Oh, and here's a write up that outlines how that coincides with information from the Steele dossier... yep, certainly can't see any reason a FISA warrant would have been issued on this guy, right?
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Buc2 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:45 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Page 4, section one. Says that Steele created the dossier and was employed by the Clinton campaign (We all knew that)

section 1a. This was not disclosed to the FISA court (irrelevant if the dossier contained evidence of a federal crime)

Comey testified that the dossier was unverified and salacious. If they implied the dossier in any way is factual than this undercuts the entire FISA warrant.

section1b. States again that Steele was being paid by the Clinton Campaign (We all know that)

Did they tell the court that they were using opposition research as the basis for their request? Can't see a judge allowing that.

Section 2. Says that Carter Page went to Russia and it was reported in the news. Steele mentioned it in the press. (The memo is correct that none of this corroborates the dossier, but it conveniently leaves out that it doesn't disprove it either)

What did they have on Carter Page to have him under surveillance for a year with re-authorization every 90 days?

Section 2a. Steele was "suspended then terminated as an FBI source" for talking to the media. (Does not corroborate or disprove the findings in the dossier)

The FBI couldn't use Steele as a source so they had him talk to a journalist with yahoo and they used that as the source. That's a misrepresentation of fact.

Section 2b. Steele talking to the media means he became an unrilaiable source for the FBI (That is for the FBI, The FISA court, and the DOJ to determine and wouldn't you know it, he lost his informant "job")

They never told the FISA court that. see above

Section 3. Steele did not want Donald Trump to become President because he told a guy so. ( Perhaps the findings in the dossier led him to this conclusion. Again, Steele's political leanings only tell you perhaps why he agreed to the job of creating the dossier, not what is in it.)

Goes to motive to lie about the dossier which the FBI already knew was fabricated.

Section 3a. The guy who Steele told he didn't want Trump to win? his wife worked for Fusion GPS that hired Steele. (about the fishiest thing in the whole memo.)

Fishy? That The DoJ was feeding Steele info that he would then feed the media which the FBI then used in FISA court? Seems illegal.

Section 4. The FBI was in the process of corroborating the dossier when Comey briefed Trump about it and Flaming Libtard Comey said himself it was "salacious and unverified" (probably because it was indeed salacious and in the process of being verified or disproven) McCabe testified (what we already knew) that the Steele Dossier was why the FISA warrant was granted in the first place. (And again, Steele's political leanings don't mean **** if the dossier has evidence of a crime)

If the dossier was salacious and unverified at the briefing it certainly was at the time of the FISA request. Did they tell the court that?

Section 5. There is no evidence of any connection between Page and Popodopolous. The FBI guy who determined this texed his mistress and said he didn't like Trump and then there's vague talk of a conspiracy. (I think they're dragging some other folks into the mud here)

Popodopolous is not relevant here. He was an unpaid advisor who lied about the dates that he talked to some Russian source in the UK.

End of the Day. Nothing in this memo is new. Nothing in this memo disproves anything we've heard about what's in the dossier. The FBI was trying to sort this mess out and the President Fired the director because of "the Russia thing" and here we are.

End of the day the FBI used a phony dossier as the basis to spy on the Trump campaign. Then used it as the basis to appoint a special prosecutor.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:16 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Page 4, section one. Says that Steele created the dossier and was employed by the Clinton campaign (We all knew that)

section 1a. This was not disclosed to the FISA court (irrelevant if the dossier contained evidence of a federal crime)

Comey testified that the dossier was unverified and salacious. If they implied the dossier in any way is factual than this undercuts the entire FISA warrant.

section1b. States again that Steele was being paid by the Clinton Campaign (We all know that)

Did they tell the court that they were using opposition research as the basis for their request? Can't see a judge allowing that.

Section 2. Says that Carter Page went to Russia and it was reported in the news. Steele mentioned it in the press. (The memo is correct that none of this corroborates the dossier, but it conveniently leaves out that it doesn't disprove it either)

What did they have on Carter Page to have him under surveillance for a year with re-authorization every 90 days?

Section 2a. Steele was "suspended then terminated as an FBI source" for talking to the media. (Does not corroborate or disprove the findings in the dossier)

The FBI couldn't use Steele as a source so they had him talk to a journalist with yahoo and they used that as the source. That's a misrepresentation of fact.

Section 2b. Steele talking to the media means he became an unrilaiable source for the FBI (That is for the FBI, The FISA court, and the DOJ to determine and wouldn't you know it, he lost his informant "job")

They never told the FISA court that. see above

Section 3. Steele did not want Donald Trump to become President because he told a guy so. ( Perhaps the findings in the dossier led him to this conclusion. Again, Steele's political leanings only tell you perhaps why he agreed to the job of creating the dossier, not what is in it.)

Goes to motive to lie about the dossier which the FBI already knew was fabricated.

Section 3a. The guy who Steele told he didn't want Trump to win? his wife worked for Fusion GPS that hired Steele. (about the fishiest thing in the whole memo.)

Fishy? That The DoJ was feeding Steele info that he would then feed the media which the FBI then used in FISA court? Seems illegal.

Section 4. The FBI was in the process of corroborating the dossier when Comey briefed Trump about it and Flaming Libtard Comey said himself it was "salacious and unverified" (probably because it was indeed salacious and in the process of being verified or disproven) McCabe testified (what we already knew) that the Steele Dossier was why the FISA warrant was granted in the first place. (And again, Steele's political leanings don't mean **** if the dossier has evidence of a crime)

If the dossier was salacious and unverified at the briefing it certainly was at the time of the FISA request. Did they tell the court that?

Section 5. There is no evidence of any connection between Page and Popodopolous. The FBI guy who determined this texed his mistress and said he didn't like Trump and then there's vague talk of a conspiracy. (I think they're dragging some other folks into the mud here)

Popodopolous is not relevant here. He was an unpaid advisor who lied about the dates that he talked to some Russian source in the UK.

End of the Day. Nothing in this memo is new. Nothing in this memo disproves anything we've heard about what's in the dossier. The FBI was trying to sort this mess out and the President Fired the director because of "the Russia thing" and here we are.

End of the day the FBI used a phony dossier as the basis to spy on the Trump campaign. Then used it as the basis to appoint a special prosecutor.


I imagine MB would probably say ‘we already knew rhat’ to each of the points you raised. I think where you and MB diverge is whether or not the dossier is phony. MB seems to think that a tabloid compiled by a left-wing foreign spy who outed himself as an FBI informant to David Corn of Mother Jones of all places has merit and could very well be a truthful document, worthy of a multi-year investigation.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:24 pm

The guy that wrote the memo admitted he didn't even read the intelligence report the memo was supposedly based on. He instead relied on Trey Gowdy's interpretation to him. Trey Gowdy, by the way, has come out and said the memo does "not - in any way- discredit (the) investigation". He further stated that there would be an investigation even without the Steele dossier.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Pirate Life » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:21 pm

The memo is very 'meh'. It's leaving out a lot of information that likely paints everything in a different light. FISA warrants have to be redone every 90 days if I recall correctly, and Page's was renewed several times. To get a renewal, there has to be new information that corroborates the original warrant and that further access will uncover further evidence - they can't keep using the same information they already used to obtain the original/previous warrant. Also the warrants were not granted by Comey and co, the FISA court is run by eleven judges selected by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. One of those judges will be presented with the information to decide if it reaches the standards for allowing the surveillance. It's rare that the same judge is the one to decide on the renewal of a FISA warrant but possible. Of those 11 judges, only three were appointed by Democrats to the federal bench, two by Clinton and one by Obama. One of the more recent choices, Jeb Boasberg, in other cases ruled for the release of 14,000 of Clinton's emails from her server and also nixed a request by a group for Trumps tax returns. Another, Rosemary Collyer ruled that the House had the ability to sue the Obama administration and then that the administration had unconstitutionally spent billions in insurer subsidy payments under Obamacare. There's also a judge who is a Mormon and who issued a stay in Oregon's civil union law and thus prevented same sex marriages while petition signatures were reviewed. Can't say for certain if any of those judges were ones to review the warrant requests, but they don't seem to fit the central casting idea of DNC stooges rubber-stamping things.

I'll put more weight into the memo when they are a little more honest about what other information went into the FISA warrant requests as the memo itself mentions that the FISA surveillance started before work began on the dossier. I give Nunes credit for trying to bring in the FBI text scandal to it by mentioning Strzok though.

Also, republicans and Nunes were forced to admit that the FBI did disclose the political basis for the dossier's origins back in 2016, which should make people reconsider what else was omitted or cherrypicked in the memo.

Some interesting reading on the memo and FISA warrants:

https://www.justsecurity.org/51630/five ... mo-answer/

https://lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-c ... asethememo

So I guess now the left will be having a #releasethememo meme war of their own to get the Democratic members of the intel oversight committee to release their version of the memo.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:34 pm

Pirate Life wrote:The memo is very 'meh'. It's leaving out a lot of information that likely paints everything in a different light. FISA warrants have to be redone every 90 days if I recall correctly, and Page's was renewed several times. To get a renewal, there has to be new information that corroborates the original warrant and that further access will uncover further evidence - they can't keep using the same information they already used to obtain the original/previous warrant. Also the warrants were not granted by Comey and co, the FISA court is run by eleven judges selected by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. One of those judges will be presented with the information to decide if it reaches the standards for allowing the surveillance. It's rare that the same judge is the one to decide on the renewal of a FISA warrant but possible. Of those 11 judges, only three were appointed by Democrats to the federal bench, two by Clinton and one by Obama. One of the more recent choices, Jeb Boasberg, in other cases ruled for the release of 14,000 of Clinton's emails from her server and also nixed a request by a group for Trumps tax returns. Another, Rosemary Collyer ruled that the House had the ability to sue the Obama administration and then that the administration had unconstitutionally spent billions in insurer subsidy payments under Obamacare. There's also a judge who is a Mormon and who issued a stay in Oregon's civil union law and thus prevented same sex marriages while petition signatures were reviewed. Can't say for certain if any of those judges were ones to review the warrant requests, but they don't seem to fit the central casting idea of DNC stooges rubber-stamping things.

I'll put more weight into the memo when they are a little more honest about what other information went into the FISA warrant requests as the memo itself mentions that the FISA surveillance started before work began on the dossier. I give Nunes credit for trying to bring in the FBI text scandal to it by mentioning Strzok though.

Also, republicans and Nunes were forced to admit that the FBI did disclose the political basis for the dossier's origins back in 2016, which should make people reconsider what else was omitted or cherrypicked in the memo.

Some interesting reading on the memo and FISA warrants:

https://www.justsecurity.org/51630/five ... mo-answer/

https://lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-c ... asethememo

So I guess now the left will be having a #releasethememo meme war of their own to get the Democratic members of the intel oversight committee to release their version of the memo.


We should at least be able to know whether McCabe testified that there would have been no approval without the dossier. Someone is lying, either Devin or Adam.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm

Keeping up the good fight eh Brazen?
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:51 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Keeping up the good fight eh Brazen?


We’re not fighting. As you said, we both agree that the dossier was the reason for beginning this escapade.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:23 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Keeping up the good fight eh Brazen?


We’re not fighting. As you said, we both agree that the dossier was the reason for beginning this escapade.

uh, no. The Russians messing around with the election was the beginning of this escapade.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Pirate Life » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 am

Brazen331 wrote:
Pirate Life wrote:The memo is very 'meh'. It's leaving out a lot of information that likely paints everything in a different light. FISA warrants have to be redone every 90 days if I recall correctly, and Page's was renewed several times. To get a renewal, there has to be new information that corroborates the original warrant and that further access will uncover further evidence - they can't keep using the same information they already used to obtain the original/previous warrant. Also the warrants were not granted by Comey and co, the FISA court is run by eleven judges selected by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. One of those judges will be presented with the information to decide if it reaches the standards for allowing the surveillance. It's rare that the same judge is the one to decide on the renewal of a FISA warrant but possible. Of those 11 judges, only three were appointed by Democrats to the federal bench, two by Clinton and one by Obama. One of the more recent choices, Jeb Boasberg, in other cases ruled for the release of 14,000 of Clinton's emails from her server and also nixed a request by a group for Trumps tax returns. Another, Rosemary Collyer ruled that the House had the ability to sue the Obama administration and then that the administration had unconstitutionally spent billions in insurer subsidy payments under Obamacare. There's also a judge who is a Mormon and who issued a stay in Oregon's civil union law and thus prevented same sex marriages while petition signatures were reviewed. Can't say for certain if any of those judges were ones to review the warrant requests, but they don't seem to fit the central casting idea of DNC stooges rubber-stamping things.

I'll put more weight into the memo when they are a little more honest about what other information went into the FISA warrant requests as the memo itself mentions that the FISA surveillance started before work began on the dossier. I give Nunes credit for trying to bring in the FBI text scandal to it by mentioning Strzok though.

Also, republicans and Nunes were forced to admit that the FBI did disclose the political basis for the dossier's origins back in 2016, which should make people reconsider what else was omitted or cherrypicked in the memo.

Some interesting reading on the memo and FISA warrants:

https://www.justsecurity.org/51630/five ... mo-answer/

https://lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-c ... asethememo

So I guess now the left will be having a #releasethememo meme war of their own to get the Democratic members of the intel oversight committee to release their version of the memo.


We should at least be able to know whether McCabe testified that there would have been no approval without the dossier. Someone is lying, either Devin or Adam.


That's not what either side actually said though. Nunes' memo quotes McCabe testifying that the dossier was an essential part of one of the requests, not that without it the request would not have been approved. After reading up on FISA warrant requests, if it was in there as evidence to get the warrant, it would be an essential part. Key word in there is not 'essential' but 'part'. I don't think Nunes or Schiff are lying, just one of them is giving more complete information.

You may be referring to the part of the memo that says McCabe testified that without the memo they would not have gone to the FISA court for a warrant, which isn't quite the same thing. Based on the way the FISA courts work and the fact that the memo states Page was under surveillance before the dossier was started/known about, I'd say Nunes' is the one with the Pinocchio nose.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
We’re not fighting. As you said, we both agree that the dossier was the reason for beginning this escapade.

uh, no. The Russians messing around with the election was the beginning of this escapade.


Really? When did the Obama executive branch begin to show any interest in Russia? Remember we were doing resets, getting caught on hot mikes saying how flexible we were going to be for Vladimir, and telling the country that anyone who feared Russia that the 80’s called and they needed their foreign policy back.

We went from that, to Russia is the greatest threat in world history in a snap. Why? Was Obama complaining of any meddling during the election, while Hillary was a shoe-in to win? They were meddling at the time were they not?

No, I think your wrong. It was only after Hillary lost, despite the best efforts of various government institutions under the executive branch to aid her campaign, that this whole escapade began. There would be no investigation if Clinton won so no, Russia messing around was never the catalyst, it was political from the get-go.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:05 pm

Brazen331 wrote: it was political from the get-go.

How convenient for you.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:13 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote: it was political from the get-go.

How convenient for you.


Not convenient for me. I’d love to see evidence that it wasn’t political. If you can show where the Obama executive branch was concerned about Russia without trying to produce a connection to Trump, and while the world thought Hillary was coasting to a win by all means do so.
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Re: FISA abuse memo released

Postby Pirate Life » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:19 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:uh, no. The Russians messing around with the election was the beginning of this escapade.


Really? When did the Obama executive branch begin to show any interest in Russia? Remember we were doing resets, getting caught on hot mikes saying how flexible we were going to be for Vladimir, and telling the country that anyone who feared Russia that the 80’s called and they needed their foreign policy back.

We went from that, to Russia is the greatest threat in world history in a snap. Why? Was Obama complaining of any meddling during the election, while Hillary was a shoe-in to win? They were meddling at the time were they not?

No, I think your wrong. It was only after Hillary lost, despite the best efforts of various government institutions under the executive branch to aid her campaign, that this whole escapade began. There would be no investigation if Clinton won so no, Russia messing around was never the catalyst, it was political from the get-go.


Your thinking would be mistaken. The administration, DoJ and intelligence sources were looking at Russian interference before Trump was confirmed as the Republican nominee. In the summer of 2015 the FBI warned the DNC that they had been hacked by the Russians. In June 2016, FBI sent warnings to State electorate boards warning about Russian attempts to hack into their voting systems. Obama personally warned Putin on two occasions before the election to stop interfering in the election (September 2016 at the G20 summit and Oct 31st via the 'red phone'). The administration also met with representatives in Congress about going public with the information during the election, specifically the leadership of the House and Senate to let them know about it and get their opinions on releasing the info in a way to make it not see partisan or political - McConnell wanted no part of any bipartisan release of that information so the White House decided not to release the info so as not to be seen as trying to influence the election.
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