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do you agree with this ?

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:27 pm

California lawmaker taking flak over plastic straw bill

A California politician says he was only thinking of protecting the environment when he proposed a bill making it a crime for dine-in restaurants to offer customers plastic straws without first being asked.

Since introducing his bill last week, Democratic Assemblyman Ian Calderon has been the target of scorn from critics who call his proposal "absurd" and an overreach of government.

"It really is a reasonable measured approach that I think will make a difference," Calderon told ABC News on Monday about his proposed bill.


He explained that when he sent the proposal to the state legislative rules committee, health and safety code penalties were automatically tacked on, making it a misdemeanor punishable by six months in jail and a $1,000 fine for dine-in restaurants caught offering plastic straws without being requested.

"I didn't actually ask for penalties," Calderon said. "They were more or less prescribed to my bill by the code section."

But critics immediately jumped on him. Assemblyman Travis Allen, a Republican candidate for governor of California, asked people on his campaign Facebook page to protest the bill by flooding Calderon's office with plastic straws.


"Instead of tackling the real issues, today's California Democrats are more interested in giving jail time to waiters offering their customers the convenience of having a straw," Allen told ABC News on Monday. "This is one absurd bill, but it highlights how ridiculous the California Democrats have gotten. This is clearly the last straw."

Paul Preston said such laws are the reason he co-founded a movement to break up the state and form a New California, where regulations aren't overbearing and discouraging to businesses.

"It's absolute lunacy," Preston told ABC News of Calderon's bill. "They are criminalizing everything we do. It's over the top."

Calderon brushed off the bashing, saying an estimated 500 million plastic straws are used every day in the United States and most are just used once and discarded. He said plastic straws and stirrers were the sixth most common items collected during California Coastal Cleanup Days between 1989 and 2014.

"We need to create awareness around the issue of one-time use of plastic straws and its detrimental effects on our landfills, waterways and oceans," Calderon said.


California Assemblyman Ian Calderon has proposed a bill that would make it a crime for sit-down restaurants to offer customers plastic straws.more +
He said he'll work to get the bill's language rewritten so that no one fears going to jail or paying hefty fines for handing out plastic straws. He said he expects the bill to reach Gov. Jerry Brown's desk for approval in about two months.

"Nobody is going to jail, nobody is going to be getting a $1,000 fine," said Calderon, adding that the bill does not affect fast-food restaurants or grocery stores.

He said critics like Allen are "grasping at straws" by saying such legislation is hurting businesses in California.

"It's a ridiculous argument," he said.

Sharokina Shams -- a spokeswoman for the California Restaurant Association, which represents more than 20,000 restaurants in the state -- told ABC News her group is taking a wait-and-see approach on Calderon's bill.

"The association will study the bill's potential impacts and consult with its membership before taking an officials stance on the bill," said Shams, adding that Calderon's proposal "is preferable to an outright ban on straws."

Matt Davis, a spokesman for the national environmental group Clean Water Action, said Calderon's proposal makes sense.

"It's great he's doing it," Davis told ABC News. "It does reduce the amount of straws that restaurants are giving out and that's a good thing."

He said cities such as Alameda, California, have passed local straws-on-request ordinances and that many restaurants have saved money by not having to provide so many straws.

He compared it to the plastic shopping bag ban passed by California voters in 2016 or water-on-request ordinances used to combat the state's drought, saying people got used to it.

In New Jersey, too, local businesses have been participating in an initiative to reduce plastic straw use. And it has dramatically reduced the number of straws the companies are giving out, according to the Montclair Local.

A local eatery said it was using about a tenth of the straws it had previously used on a monthly basis, from 6,800 straws to 650, the paper reported.

Back in California, Davis said Calderon's concerns that plastic straws are fouling up the ocean are real.

"There is going to be more plastic in the ocean than there are fish by 2050," Davis said, citing a study by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation that was presented to the World Economic Forum in 2016.

He said that plastic breaks down into minute particles that fish mistake for food.

"I don't want plastic in my sushi," he said.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:31 pm

Lol. No





Maybe I can start a petition to the Texas Governor to make Texas a sanctuary state to servers that like to give out straws
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:34 pm

Chief Wahoo, and now illegal plastic straws.

Progress is awesome!!
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Forward comrade!
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby The Outsider » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:41 pm

That's preposterous.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:20 am

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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:36 am

Lol


The 500 million straws a day stat was apparently made up by an elementary school student and people just ran with it


https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/26/a-li ... -orgs-that
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:54 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Lol


The 500 million straws a day stat was apparently made up by an elementary school student and people just ran with it


https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/26/a-li ... -orgs-that

#1 Are you saying a kid can't research? I've met some very enterprising kids and I don't really doubt he actually did his homework on an issue he felt passionately about.

#2 Even if the number was off by 100 million and there was "only" 400 million (considering there's 320 million of us that's not a crazy notion), are you suggesting that's not a problem?

While I think criminalizing the act of giving a straw without asking is silly and won't pass, it did get us talking about the issue and maybe someone will start taking smarter steps towards reducing that waste.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:06 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Lol


The 500 million straws a day stat was apparently made up by an elementary school student and people just ran with it


https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/26/a-li ... -orgs-that

#1 Are you saying a kid can't research? I've met some very enterprising kids and I don't really doubt he actually did his homework on an issue he felt passionately about.

#2 Even if the number was off by 100 million and there was "only" 400 million (considering there's 320 million of us that's not a crazy notion), are you suggesting that's not a problem?

While I think criminalizing the act of giving a straw without asking is silly and won't pass, it did get us talking about the issue and maybe someone will start taking smarter steps towards reducing that waste.


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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:11 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:#1 Are you saying a kid can't research? I've met some very enterprising kids and I don't really doubt he actually did his homework on an issue he felt passionately about.

#2 Even if the number was off by 100 million and there was "only" 400 million (considering there's 320 million of us that's not a crazy notion), are you suggesting that's not a problem?

While I think criminalizing the act of giving a straw without asking is silly and won't pass, it did get us talking about the issue and maybe someone will start taking smarter steps towards reducing that waste.



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What wasn't clear? The part that Zarni is quoting a Reason.com blog to attack the believed source without any other numbers to dispute the claim, or the fact that the stupid bill may have a positive side effect?
Last edited by bucfanclw on Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:11 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:#1 Are you saying a kid can't research? I've met some very enterprising kids and I don't really doubt he actually did his homework on an issue he felt passionately about.

#2 Even if the number was off by 100 million and there was "only" 400 million (considering there's 320 million of us that's not a crazy notion), are you suggesting that's not a problem?

While I think criminalizing the act of giving a straw without asking is silly and won't pass, it did get us talking about the issue and maybe someone will start taking smarter steps towards reducing that waste.


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If a politician doesn't feel enough progress, or even discussion is occurring on a specific issue that it's OK for them to propose legislation that would criminalize such acts.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Rocker » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:12 am

MOAR LAWS!
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:13 am

Have all the homosexuals and lesbians sign an oath not to use straws, make all the women infertile except the super rich. Then in a short time the population goes down when all the dont hurt me's die off and then social security and world hunger are solved.

I think that was the secret plan by the way - ask Hillary.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby NYBF » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:15 am

DreadNaught wrote:Chief Wahoo, and now illegal plastic straws.

Progress is awesome!!


:roll:
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:17 am

You can take our plastic bags

But you can never take our plastic straws!!!
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:17 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
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If a politician doesn't feel enough progress, or even discussion is occurring on a specific issue that it's OK for them to propose legislation that would criminalize such acts.

True. It's almost like suggesting building a giant wall in order to get people focused on illegal immigration. But what idiot would do something like that?
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:18 am

Zarniwoop wrote:You can take our plastic bags

But you can never take our plastic straws!!!

Do you have another Reason.com blog to back up that assertion?
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:20 am

since we've passed the environmental tipping point (and human population is the only determining coefficient in the "environmental" equation), just **** the regulations, speed technological advancements, get this civ off this planet as fast as possible and enjoy earth's nature while you can
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:23 am

We can buy ourselves a little time if that execute the boomers plan we’ve been bouncing around gains momentum
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:23 am

-Shocking report reveals that 95% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from just TEN rivers including the Ganges and Niger
-Scientists analysed data on plastic from 79 sampling sites along 57 rivers
-Their results showed that 10 rivers account for the majority of plastic
-Eight of these are in Asia, including the Yangtze and Indus rivers
-Targeting these rivers could halve the amount of plastic waste, experts predict

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what we're doing in america doesn't fuckin matter. as much as it kills me to say that. and its happening too fast for us to try to be any sort of "beacon that shows the way"... it's a joke... we just need to get off the fuckin planet
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:25 am

bucfanclw wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
If a politician doesn't feel enough progress, or even discussion is occurring on a specific issue that it's OK for them to propose legislation that would criminalize such acts.

True. It's almost like suggesting building a giant wall in order to get people focused on illegal immigration. But what idiot would do something like that?


Nailed it, people never talked about illegal immigration in the USA before Trump. Good take!!
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:34 am

beardmcdoug wrote:-Shocking report reveals that 95% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from just TEN rivers including the Ganges and Niger
-Scientists analysed data on plastic from 79 sampling sites along 57 rivers
-Their results showed that 10 rivers account for the majority of plastic
-Eight of these are in Asia, including the Yangtze and Indus rivers
-Targeting these rivers could halve the amount of plastic waste, experts predict

Image

what we're doing in america doesn't fuckin matter. as much as it kills me to say that. and its happening too fast for us to try to be any sort of "beacon that shows the way"... it's a joke... we just need to get off the fuckin planet

That's why we have to push like China already is to change the variables and make the tech more affordable to the 2nd and third world.

That's why these things are referred to as "investments".
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:36 am

Zarniwoop wrote:We can buy ourselves a little time if that execute the boomers plan we’ve been bouncing around gains momentum


I've been watching 'The Man in the High Castle' on AmzPrime (setting is the Axis powers won WW2 and the former USA is under Nazi/Japanese control 15 years later) and they burn the 'cripples and old people' every Tuesday b/c they 'too much of a burden on the State'. I lol'd when I watched that scene b/c it reminded be of the 'execute the boomers' talk.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:39 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:We can buy ourselves a little time if that execute the boomers plan we’ve been bouncing around gains momentum


I've been watching 'The Man in the High Castle' on AmzPrime (setting is the Axis powers won WW2 and the former USA is under Nazi/Japanese control 15 years later) and they burn the 'cripples and old people' every Tuesday b/c they 'too much of a burden on the State'. I lol'd when I watched that scene b/c it reminded be of the 'execute the boomers' talk.


How is that show? I've heard it's good from some, but that it spiraled into weird fantasy from others.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:45 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:-Shocking report reveals that 95% of plastic polluting the world's oceans comes from just TEN rivers including the Ganges and Niger
-Scientists analysed data on plastic from 79 sampling sites along 57 rivers
-Their results showed that 10 rivers account for the majority of plastic
-Eight of these are in Asia, including the Yangtze and Indus rivers
-Targeting these rivers could halve the amount of plastic waste, experts predict

Image

what we're doing in america doesn't fuckin matter. as much as it kills me to say that. and its happening too fast for us to try to be any sort of "beacon that shows the way"... it's a joke... we just need to get off the fuckin planet

That's why we have to push like China already is to change the variables and make the tech more affordable to the 2nd and third world.

That's why these things are referred to as "investments".


in their pushing effort, china has created a variable that has completely overridden the equation - a variable that has too much inertia to just be countered before irrevocable damage is done. And population growth isn't going anywhere - people need to eat - and the oceans will feel the brunt of that. You want to grow more food in places you're not right now? That's fertilizer. That's a dead zone. You want to construct ****? That's bioaccumulative heavy metal pollution. You want to keep those people healthy/happy? That's bioaccumulative hormone/biological disrupters. And we're going to act like corruption won't derail any of this? We live in the most sophisticated, highly developed culture in the world and our political system from the top down is rife with progress-defeating corruption. Somehow we're going to expect Africa and China to operate without that? Hell China is far more corrupt as is, right now - Africa is a fuckin joke (and the two working together.... have you seen Empire of Dust? lol). A guy who lost the Kenyan election just swore himself in as president yesterday. I'm not cynical about much. About this, I am though
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:55 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I've been watching 'The Man in the High Castle' on AmzPrime (setting is the Axis powers won WW2 and the former USA is under Nazi/Japanese control 15 years later) and they burn the 'cripples and old people' every Tuesday b/c they 'too much of a burden on the State'. I lol'd when I watched that scene b/c it reminded be of the 'execute the boomers' talk.


How is that show? I've heard it's good from some, but that it spiraled into weird fantasy from others.


Just made it through season 1 (10 episodes). It's worth the watch so far. I'm not sure how many episodes/seasons it goes.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:47 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:We can buy ourselves a little time if that execute the boomers plan we’ve been bouncing around gains momentum

**** you all.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:38 pm

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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:02 pm

It'll never happen. Between the Millennials ennui and the Gen-Xers reticence, by the time anyone actually gets around to killing the first Boomer, the Gen-Nets will already be popping out Gen-Alphas and all the older Boomers will already be in the Great Beyond. At that point, us remaining young Boomers won't be the resource hogs everyone is worrying about today, so they'll no longer have a problem with me still being around.
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Re: do you agree with this ?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:08 pm

Buc2 wrote:It'll never happen. Between the Millennials ennui and the Gen-Xers reticence, by the time anyone actually gets around to killing the first Boomer, the Gen-Nets will already be popping out Gen-Alphas and all the older Boomers will already be in the Great Beyond. At that point, us remaining young Boomers won't be the resource hogs everyone is worrying about today, so they'll no longer have a problem with me still being around.


That's what you think.


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