Immigration question for the Progressives

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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:26 am

bucfanclw wrote:
HamBone wrote:
What is your opinion of the previous Presidents who sent NG Troops to the border? Do you question their ability to think ahead?

It was stupid when W did it, it was stupid when Obama did it. They're so limited in what they can do by law that there's not much of a point in them being there. Obama sent over 1000 troops to the border and they assisted in only about 5% of arrests. Waste of resources.


Ok, fair enough...good to see your stance on their ability to think ahead and President Trumps is the same.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby NYBF » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:33 am

Brazen331 wrote:I don’t feel sorry for Clewy one bit and his obsession with this particular caravan makes zero sense.


Brazen331 wrote:... caravan ... caravan; ... caravan... caravans ... caravan ... caravans


Brazen331 wrote: caravan


Brazen331 wrote:caravans... caravan ... caravan ... caravan


Brazen331 wrote:caravan ... caravans
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:34 am

HamBone wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:It was stupid when W did it, it was stupid when Obama did it. They're so limited in what they can do by law that there's not much of a point in them being there. Obama sent over 1000 troops to the border and they assisted in only about 5% of arrests. Waste of resources.


Ok, fair enough...good to see your stance on their ability to think ahead and President Trumps is the same.

If the budget hawks rightfully called out the move back in 2011 as a waste of money, what is the motivation to do it again?
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:20 am

Add it up man. One was the welcome wagon and the other is the real thing.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:24 am

bucfanclw wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Ok, fair enough...good to see your stance on their ability to think ahead and President Trumps is the same.

If the budget hawks rightfully called out the move back in 2011 as a waste of money, what is the motivation to do it again?


What is the motivation for a politician to do something? Is that your real question?
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 am

HamBone wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:If the budget hawks rightfully called out the move back in 2011 as a waste of money, what is the motivation to do it again?


What is the motivation for a politician to do something? Is that your real question?

I thought the appeal of Trump was that he WASN'T a politician...
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:33 am

bucfanclw wrote:
HamBone wrote:
What is the motivation for a politician to do something? Is that your real question?

I thought the appeal of Trump was that he WASN'T a politician...


I dunno...you'd have to ask one of his supporters. I consider anyone in office (especially the President) a politician.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:36 am

HamBone wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:I thought the appeal of Trump was that he WASN'T a politician...


I dunno...you'd have to ask one of his supporters. I consider anyone in office (especially the President) a politician.

So what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to send the military to the border?
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:39 am

bucfanclw wrote:
HamBone wrote:
I dunno...you'd have to ask one of his supporters. I consider anyone in office (especially the President) a politician.

So what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to send the military to the border?



Blame the obstructionists.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby RedLeader » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:53 am

Some facts.



2006: In a national address, President George W. Bush announces plans to deploy 6,000 troops
Name: Operation Jump Start
When it happened: June 2006-July 2008
Cost: $1.2 billion

Who was deployed: 6,000 National Guard troops deployed to California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Assists with undocumented immigrant apprehensions: 186,814 (11.7% of the total apprehensions on the Southwest land border in that period)

Assists with drug seizures: 316,364 pounds of marijuana (9.4% of all marijuana seized on the Southwest border in that period)

————————-

2010: President Obama orders the deployment of up to 1,200 troops to the US-Mexico border

Name: Operation Phalanx
When it happened: Initially from July 2010-June 30, 2011, then extended
Cost: $110 million for the first year

Who was deployed: Initially 1,200 National Guard troops. In 2012, the number of troops was scaled back as the focus shifted from boots on the ground to aerial surveillance.

Assists with undocumented immigrant apprehensions: 17,887 in the first 11 months (5.9% of the total apprehensions on the Southwest land border in that period)

Assists with drug seizures: 56,342 pounds of marijuana in the first 11 months (2.6% of all marijuana seized on the Southwest border in that period)
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:54 am

bucfanclw wrote:
HamBone wrote:
I dunno...you'd have to ask one of his supporters. I consider anyone in office (especially the President) a politician.

So what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to send the military to the border?


I think if they are used properly...it can be a decent bandage. But, it is not a solution to our border being porous...and if this President does what the last ones have done (read nothing) to work towards a long term solution it will be wasted money.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:04 am

HamBone wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:So what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to send the military to the border?


I think if they are used properly...it can be a decent bandage. But, it is not a solution to our border being porous...and if this President does what the last ones have done (read nothing) to work towards a long term solution it will be wasted money.

I'd be more in favor of giving our border patrol agents better reconnaissance gear to help them do their job, vs sending troops there that need the border control agents to do the actual apprehensions anyways. It's like sending in a tenured college professor to catch traffic speeders. Sure, he can help, but wouldn't it make more sense to pay his salary to do something he's more suited for?
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:20 am

HamBone wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:So what are your thoughts on Trump wanting to send the military to the border?


I think if they are used properly...it can be a decent bandage. But, it is not a solution to our border being porous...and if this President does what the last ones have done (read nothing) to work towards a long term solution it will be wasted money.




President Congress
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:24 am

mdb1958 wrote:
HamBone wrote:
I think if they are used properly...it can be a decent bandage. But, it is not a solution to our border being porous...and if this President does what the last ones have done (read nothing) to work towards a long term solution it will be wasted money.




President Congress


Yes, but the Presidents can push Congress to enact legislation. Especially, when their Party owns Congress. Neither Party does anything...because they aren't really looking for a solution.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:40 am

HamBone wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:


President Congress


Yes, but the Presidents can push Congress to enact legislation. Especially, when their Party owns Congress. Neither Party does anything...because they aren't really looking for a solution.


Not true, the Dems obstruct anything.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:44 am

mdb1958 wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Yes, but the Presidents can push Congress to enact legislation. Especially, when their Party owns Congress. Neither Party does anything...because they aren't really looking for a solution.


Not true, the Dems obstruct anything.

/eyeroll
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:47 am

Ken Carson wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
Not true, the Dems obstruct anything.

/eyeroll


True or False

In order to pass the spending bill Congress had to match every dollar given to the military, and give the same to the Democrats.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:01 am

mdb1958 wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Yes, but the Presidents can push Congress to enact legislation. Especially, when their Party owns Congress. Neither Party does anything...because they aren't really looking for a solution.


Not true, the Dems obstruct anything.


Republicans are no better...different wing of the same bird.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:20 am

HamBone wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
Not true, the Dems obstruct anything.


Republicans are no better...different wing of the same bird.


False again

With Obama he wanted the government shut down if he didnt get his way, he had the fake news easily able to blame the Republican controlled Congress.
Outcome - he got his way.

Now the shoe --------- is on the other foot and if Trump was to make them come up with something he would sign or else ----- guess what? Yep they would let the government shut down and the fake news would blame Trump.

A Republican controlled Congress and a Republican majority are two different things as far as passing things into action.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby HamBone » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:54 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Republicans are no better...different wing of the same bird.


False again

With Obama he wanted the government shut down if he didnt get his way, he had the fake news easily able to blame the Republican controlled Congress.
Outcome - he got his way.

Now the shoe --------- is on the other foot and if Trump was to make them come up with something he would sign or else ----- guess what? Yep they would let the government shut down and the fake news would blame Trump.

A Republican controlled Congress and a Republican majority are two different things as far as passing things into action.


You are certainly entitled to believe that...
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Alpha » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:41 am

mdb1958 wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Republicans are no better...different wing of the same bird.


False again

With Obama he wanted the government shut down if he didnt get his way, he had the fake news easily able to blame the Republican controlled Congress.
Outcome - he got his way.

Now the shoe --------- is on the other foot and if Trump was to make them come up with something he would sign or else ----- guess what? Yep they would let the government shut down and the fake news would blame Trump.

A Republican controlled Congress and a Republican majority are two different things as far as passing things into action.


How the **** old are you!?

Are you a child or nearly? 20-something-ish?

Your non-sensical, rambling is amusing...but for ****'s sake...do you have ANY idea what you're actually talking about? It seems your political "history" goes back 10 years? Maybe?

You have no perspective. You have opinion. A poorly thought out opinion...mostly what you've been indoctrinated with, I suppose. No real, critical thought involved. Please continue regurgitating, what you've been told to "think". It's (unfortunately) disturbing but considering the source, hardly surprising.

'Bone is about as spot-on as one can get in discussing politics.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Alpha » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:46 am

RedLeader wrote:Some facts.



2006: In a national address, President George W. Bush announces plans to deploy 6,000 troops
Name: Operation Jump Start
When it happened: June 2006-July 2008
Cost: $1.2 billion

Who was deployed: 6,000 National Guard troops deployed to California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Assists with undocumented immigrant apprehensions: 186,814 (11.7% of the total apprehensions on the Southwest land border in that period)

Assists with drug seizures: 316,364 pounds of marijuana (9.4% of all marijuana seized on the Southwest border in that period)

————————-

2010: President Obama orders the deployment of up to 1,200 troops to the US-Mexico border

Name: Operation Phalanx
When it happened: Initially from July 2010-June 30, 2011, then extended
Cost: $110 million for the first year

Who was deployed: Initially 1,200 National Guard troops. In 2012, the number of troops was scaled back as the focus shifted from boots on the ground to aerial surveillance.

Assists with undocumented immigrant apprehensions: 17,887 in the first 11 months (5.9% of the total apprehensions on the Southwest land border in that period)

Assists with drug seizures: 56,342 pounds of marijuana in the first 11 months (2.6% of all marijuana seized on the Southwest border in that period)


SWEET! They got the Marijuana!

Except...that doesn't really mean much, considering you can buy it legally, in many states.

:roll:

Republicans LOVE the concept of throwing deck chairs off of the Titanic...
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Alpha » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:50 am

And any of you Trumpsters...feel free to enlighten the rest of us:

When was the last time, our imposing of tariffs actually benefited the economy of the United States?

Hint for MDB: You're gonna have to go back a LONG, LONG way. More than 10 years. At least.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:37 am

Alpha wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
False again

With Obama he wanted the government shut down if he didnt get his way, he had the fake news easily able to blame the Republican controlled Congress.
Outcome - he got his way.

Now the shoe --------- is on the other foot and if Trump was to make them come up with something he would sign or else ----- guess what? Yep they would let the government shut down and the fake news would blame Trump.

A Republican controlled Congress and a Republican majority are two different things as far as passing things into action.


How the **** old are you!?

Are you a child or nearly? 20-something-ish?

Your non-sensical, rambling is amusing...but for ****'s sake...do you have ANY idea what you're actually talking about? It seems your political "history" goes back 10 years? Maybe?

You have no perspective. You have opinion. A poorly thought out opinion...mostly what you've been indoctrinated with, I suppose. No real, critical thought involved. Please continue regurgitating, what you've been told to "think". It's (unfortunately) disturbing but considering the source, hardly surprising.

'Bone is about as spot-on as one can get in discussing politics.


Alpha, why did you quote the post
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:39 am

Alpha wrote:And any of you Trumpsters...feel free to enlighten the rest of us:

When was the last time, our imposing of tariffs actually benefited the economy of the United States?

Hint for MDB: You're gonna have to go back a LONG, LONG way. More than 10 years. At least.



I think you will see the entire board is against the tariffs as constructed
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 am

Alpha wrote:And any of you Trumpsters...feel free to enlighten the rest of us:

When was the last time, our imposing of tariffs actually benefited the economy of the United States?

Hint for MDB: You're gonna have to go back a LONG, LONG way. More than 10 years. At least.


I dont feel like looking into it but did you know Texans can save damn near $1.50 a gal for gas by just crossing the border, why should they (Mexicans and Texans) get the gas price break while the rich milk our pockets.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:22 am

mdb1958 wrote:
Alpha wrote:And any of you Trumpsters...feel free to enlighten the rest of us:

When was the last time, our imposing of tariffs actually benefited the economy of the United States?

Hint for MDB: You're gonna have to go back a LONG, LONG way. More than 10 years. At least.


I dont feel like looking into it but did you know Texans can save damn near $1.50 a gal for gas by just crossing the border, why should they (Mexicans and Texans) get the gas price break while the rich milk our pockets.

Gas prices in Mexico are actually a bit higher than in the US. The only explanation for your $1.50 figure is that you're comparing our price per gallon with their price per liter.
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:23 am

bucfanclw wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
I dont feel like looking into it but did you know Texans can save damn near $1.50 a gal for gas by just crossing the border, why should they (Mexicans and Texans) get the gas price break while the rich milk our pockets.

Gas prices in Mexico are actually a bit higher than in the US. The only explanation for your $1.50 figure is that you're comparing our price per gallon with their price per liter.

lol.

Oh mdb...
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:53 am

Don’t ever change mdb
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Re: Immigration question for the Progressives

Postby The Outsider » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:26 am

I was in Ireland last summer when my brother in law made the same mistake and offered to fill up the rental.

I quickly said yes and then laughed hysterically when he realized what he'd done.

Edit: One thing a lot of Americans don't realize is we have some of the lowest fuel prices in the world.
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