South Korea vs North Korea

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South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:14 pm

The idea of unity may be going away if South Koreans have any say in the matter. Seems the younger SoKo's are pissed about the idea of sharing their Olympics under a unified banner. It seems attitudes are changing now that there are adult aged citizens that weren't raised under the specter of the Korean War and the Cold War that followed.

#WORLD NEWSJANUARY 18, 2018 / 5:19 AM / UPDATED 30 MINUTES AGO
'Pyongyang Olympics?' Backlash reveals changing attitudes in South Korea
Heekyong Yang, Josh Smith

SEOUL (Reuters) - An agreement between South and North Korea to march under a unity flag and field a joint ice hockey team at next month’s Olympics was met by sharp criticism from many in the South on Thursday, highlighting changing attitudes toward the country’s northern neighbor.

The controversy reveals a South Korean public far less wedded to the idea of inter-Korean unity than previous generations, analysts say, a changing dynamic that may shape South Korean President Moon Jae-in’s efforts at reconciliation with the isolated North.

North Korea’s participation in the Olympics has been seen as a win for Moon, who hopes to use the event to make a diplomatic breakthrough in the standoff over North Korea’s nuclear and missile program. It also eases public concerns the North might upstage the Games with yet another weapons test.

But Moon’s specific moves to integrate the two Koreas at the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics have sparked a sharp backlash that goes beyond his traditional conservative detractors to include his main support base of younger South Koreans upset an unchastened North Korea is stealing the spotlight.

“North Korea was all about firing missiles last year, but suddenly they want to come to the South for the Olympics? Who gets to decide that?,” Kim Joo-hee, a 24-year-old translator told Reuters during a coffee break on a chilly Seoul afternoon. “Does North Korea have so much privilege to do whatever they want?”

Moon’s office declined to comment beyond saying the two countries would be coordinating logistics for the Olympics, which begin on February 9.

Opinion polls released since the plans became public have shown limited support for some of Seoul’s proposals.

Only four out of 10 respondents said they favor the plan to march together under a flag symbolizing a unified Korea, according to a survey released on Thursday by the South Korean pollster Realmeter.

Tens of thousands of people took to social media to vent their disgust after plans for the joint activities were announced on Wednesday, with one commenter saying the Korean peninsula flag is “not my goddamned flag”.

Others complained “the Pyeongchang Olympics have already become the Pyongyang Olympics”.

TWO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES

The South Korean women’s ice hockey team is the only team ear-marked for integration with the North Koreans, a move that drew criticism from the coach and team members worried their performance would be disrupted by accommodating less accomplished North Korean players at short notice.

In a visit with the team on Wednesday, Moon tried to smooth things over by telling the players that showing unity and hope may be more important than winning, and that integrating with North Koreans will bring attention to “a less-preferred sport”.

Nam Sung-wook, a professor of North Korean studies at Korea University, said the president may have come across as being unfair to the South Korean athletes forced to change their plans.

“Those who voted for Moon Jae-in last year yearned for a different world where fairness and hard work are valued and rewarded,” he said. “But this time the Moon administration failed to grasp the situation and disappointed many people, including its supporters.”

Younger South Koreans who did not experience the 1950-1953 Korean War or its Cold War aftermath may also have fewer cross-border ties and less desire to reunite the peninsula than earlier generations.

“Undoubtedly we are two different and separate countries,” said 26-year-old Lee Seung-kun, who works in business development. “No one questions that, so competing at the Olympics as ‘one country’ does logically not make any sense.”

Andray Abrahamian, a research fellow at Pacific Forum CSIS, said it was significant that plans for joint Olympic activities have upset younger South Koreans, not only older anti-North Korea nationalists.

“I think that reflects a growing South Korean nationalism and identity, rather than a more simple anti-Communism in the older generation,” Abrahamian said. “Young people are not anti-Communist so much as Communism is just sort of irrelevant to them.”

‘POLITICAL SHOW’

The political situation has also changed since jubilant crowds greeted a joint Korean team at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, when many in South Korea and beyond sensed there might be a real breakthrough on the horizon.

“Marching under the one peninsula flag does not bring peace to the Korean peninsula,” said one South Korean Twitter user. “We did that 18 years ago at the Sydney Summer Olympics, but North Korea has fired missiles, conducted nuclear tests and killed our own citizens. It is just another political show.”

While some in the Moon administration may feel “romantic” about reconciliation with North Korea, many in South Korea now see this as a “delusion”, said author Michael Breen, who has studied South Korea for decades.

“South Koreans feel sorry for the athletes who have trained so hard for the Olympics and are now being kicked out of the team to make way for North Koreans,” he said.

“They think there must be a better way, especially as a few months from now we all know we will be back to where we were with North Korea.”
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Alpha » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:47 am

I was at the Seoul games in '88. Similar **** happened then...but the So. Ko's finally told Kim to **** off.

It's a different time. Personally...I think the So. Ko's are being played but I'm sure, if you asked the younger generation, they'd disagree.

I'm not up to speed as to what type of government the So. Ko's have currently...but I was of the belief that it was a moderate/conservative government.

We should GTFO of the entire place. The So. Ko's are more than capable of taking care of themselves. You wanna supply them? Fine...but there is no reason why we need boots on the ground there.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Kress » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:43 am

Alpha wrote:
We should GTFO of the entire place.


True.

But that missile launch warning for Hawaii was a bitch.

It's like the Carlin routine. They tell you to watch the quiet guy, But it's the noisy crazy guy that will get you.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:59 am

I agree we should get out of S-K. But there is no reason we shouldn't maintain a presence there, a la Japan.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Alpha » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:21 am

Buc2 wrote:I agree we should get out of S-K. But there is no reason we shouldn't maintain a presence there, a la Japan.


There are THOUSANDS of reasons why we shouldn't "maintain a presence" there. Again...you wanna supply them? I'm ok with that. We don't need 30-40-50k American boots there. We DON'T. Our handful of TROOPS there, are NOT a deterrent and to think otherwise is just foolish. Our TECHNOLOGY is the deterrent.

The So. Ko's and (ESPECIALLY) the Japs are more than capable of defending themselves. And have proven so over the course of history.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:45 pm

Like I said...no reason not to maintain a presence there like we do in Japan, Italy, Spain, France, GB, etc. Having a friendly port of call in that part of the world is essential imo. Maintaining a standing army there? As I said, no. No need.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:43 am

I hope this is the beginning of a true peace between North & South Korea as well as with the US. It's way past time for a leader in the North to come to the realization that the continued "cold war" only hurts their country while their neighbor to the south continues to prosper while enjoying full diplomatic relations with the US, the rest of the NATO Alliance and the world at large. It's unfathomable that a leader of a country in this century would remain so stubborn as to allow the vast majority of his people continue to suffer. As I said in my first sentence, I really hope this is the start of something good for the people of NK.

The leaders of North and South Korea are due to meet at a summit of the two countries next month, Seoul's envoy has said after a rare trip to Pyongyang.

N Korea's Kim Jong-un also said he was willing to talk to the US about getting rid of nuclear weapons, he said.

There have been previous programmes to halt the North's nuclear ambitions, but it has failed to keep its promises.

It will be the first meeting between the leaders of the two countries for more than a decade.

The two men will meet on the heavily fortified border next month, at the truce village of Panmunjom. The two countries also agreed to open a hotline between the leaders.

On their return from Pyongyang, South Korean officials said Kim Jong-un told them he was now willing to talk about getting rid of the North's nuclear weapons, if he felt that the regime's security could be guaranteed.

Mr Kim also said there would be no missile tests while diplomacy continued.

This is a huge turnaround for North Korea's young leader, the BBC's Laura Bicker reports from Seoul.

The United States had said talks with North Korea would only go ahead if it was willing to discuss denuclearisation.


More: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43296671
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:03 am

He's not going to disarm in exchange for nothing. I wonder what he wants.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:07 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:He's not going to disarm in exchange for nothing. I wonder what he wants.

That country needs so much, I'd think the lifting of some of the most restrictive sanctions would be a great place to start. Hopefully he doesn't want something everyone knows he won't get...whatever that is.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Crocaneers » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:11 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:He's not going to disarm in exchange for nothing. I wonder what he wants.


Our curling gold medal ...

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Last edited by Crocaneers on Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:13 am

Oh, hell no! Anything but that!
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:17 am

Things are still moving along. As an optimist, I can't help but feel hopeful.
North Korea to Meet for Talks With U.S., South Korean Delegations in Helsinki
Comes ahead of U.S.-North Korea summit expected by May
By Andrew Jeong
March 18, 2018 8:30 a.m. ET

SEOUL—North Korea will hold talks in Finland with a U.S. delegation and former South Korean government officials, Seoul’s foreign ministry said, ahead of denuclearization discussions between Seoul and Pyongyang next month and the first U.S.-North Korea summit expected by May.

The talks in Helsinki would be unofficial, a foreign ministry spokeswoman said, declining to say when the meeting would take place. She wouldn’t identify attendees except to say that the South Korean delegation would include civilian academics alongside former government officials.

South Korea’s semiofficial Yonhap news agency reported that Washington’s former ambassador to Seoul, Kathleen Stephens, would attend. Neither Ms. Stephens nor the U.S. Embassy in Seoul could be reached immediately for comment.

Unofficial meetings involving North Korea and the U.S., sometimes known as Track 2 talks, have been held before.

But the news of the discussions in Finland follows a flurry of diplomatic activity in recent days concerning Pyongyang’s nuclear program. On Saturday, North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho concluded a three-day visit to Sweden that included talks with his Swedish counterpart and a meeting with the prime minister.

Sweden is one of a handful of Western countries to maintain an embassy in North Korea’s capital, and represents U.S. diplomatic interests there. It is also among a few of Washington’s European allies that have consistently backed talks with North Korea.

Swedish officials in the past have helped secure the release of U.S. citizens detained in North Korea. At least three Americans are known to be still detained in the country.

On Sunday, hours before Seoul’s announcement about the Finland talks, a senior North Korean foreign ministry official, Choe Kang Il, was seen boarding a flight from Beijing to Helsinki, Yonhap reported. Mr. Choe is the deputy director of North American affairs at Pyongyang’s foreign ministry.

The Helsinki gathering follows announcements by Seoul officials earlier this month that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un was willing to discuss ways to dismantle his country’s atomic weapons.

North Korea advanced its nuclear-weapons program dramatically over the past year in defiance of progressively tougher United Nations sanctions, launching intercontinental ballistic missiles that it has said can reach the mainland U.S. The regime conducted its sixth nuclear-weapons test in September.

President Donald Trump this month agreed to meet with Mr. Kim by May, in what would be the first meeting between a U.S. and North Korean leader.

Finland doesn’t have an embassy in Pyongyang. But the country has served a neutral role in international relations since the end of World War II, acting as a broker between the West and the Soviet bloc during the Cold War.
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Re: South Korea vs North Korea

Postby HamBone » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:27 am

Buc2 wrote:Things are still moving along. As an optimist, I can't help but feel hopeful.
North Korea to Meet for Talks With U.S., South Korean Delegations in Helsinki
Comes ahead of U.S.-North Korea summit expected by May
By Andrew Jeong


Wonder if Andrew is related to that Sarah Jeong twatwaffle chic?
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