**OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

A Place to respectfully discuss those topics that you should never discuss.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Buc2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:25 pm

RedLeader wrote:President Trump has requested each of his Cabinet secretaries trim 5% from their respective budgets, as part of a pledge Wednesday to slash spending and rein in the soaring U.S. budget deficit. Trump’s proposal follows his administration’s disclosure this week of a $779 billion budget deficit for the 2018 fiscal year, marking a 17% increase from the period prior, according to CNBC.

Cutting spending is “not as tough as you think,” Trump told Fox Business news. :lol:

::facepalm:: meme
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:27 pm

MAGA!
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:17 am

US opens new front in trade battle

Opening a new trade battle with China, the Trump administration has begun to withdraw from a multilateral postal body that sets discount rates for small, imported packages... U.S. companies have lobbied against China’s ability to undersell them through the rates, which are cheaper than those for mailing packages from U.S. warehouses.

The move also takes aim at the fentanyl trade, in which small packets of the opioid are ordered online and imported to the U.S.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:MAGA!


;)
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:30 am

RedLeader wrote:US opens new front in trade battle

Opening a new trade battle with China, the Trump administration has begun to withdraw from a multilateral postal body that sets discount rates for small, imported packages... U.S. companies have lobbied against China’s ability to undersell them through the rates, which are cheaper than those for mailing packages from U.S. warehouses.

The move also takes aim at the fentanyl trade, in which small packets of the opioid are ordered online and imported to the U.S.

Mountaineer Buc wrote:MAGA!


;)

Did you know that Fentanyl is a Schedule 2 drug while cannabis is still schedule 1?

Just found out myself. Crazy stuff.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:49 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:US opens new front in trade battle

Opening a new trade battle with China, the Trump administration has begun to withdraw from a multilateral postal body that sets discount rates for small, imported packages... U.S. companies have lobbied against China’s ability to undersell them through the rates, which are cheaper than those for mailing packages from U.S. warehouses.

The move also takes aim at the fentanyl trade, in which small packets of the opioid are ordered online and imported to the U.S.



;)

Did you know that Fentanyl is a Schedule 2 drug while cannabis is still schedule 1?

Just found out myself. Crazy stuff.


Ya. That is indeed nuts and good ol' gubmint shill'in at it's finest.



Thankfully, Trump is aiming to fix that too... :D
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:25 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:
Regardless, you have him. No one else has been on CNN and MSNBC promoting the agenda of your party more than Avenatti.

We should smoke sometime.


You don’t want what he is smoking , **** makes you cuckoo and republican
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:19 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:We should smoke sometime.


You don’t want what he is smoking , **** makes you cuckoo and republican

If that's the case, more people need to smoke what he's smoking.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:03 pm

"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:07 pm

RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607

Its a good step in the right direction. I hope they can get it implemented.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:15 pm

RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607

Pathetic half measure.

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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:25 pm

RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607



Got my approval
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:39 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607

Pathetic half measure.

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I’m willing to have my mind changed on this, so please give it your best.

Why do you believe healthcare is a right?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:47 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Pathetic half measure.

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I’m willing to have my mind changed on this, so please give it your best.

Why do you believe healthcare is a right?

It's already a right. The government currently says that if you meet certain criteria, you have the right to healthcare.

I'm simply demanding they extend that right to everyone.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:10 pm

The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:38 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.

So all social programs and subsidies are a right?

That's a crazy perspective.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:14 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.


What provides citizens their rights in your view and where does that mention healthcare?

I'm confused how the government should not be determining who gets healthcare while you advocate for the government to determine everyone gets healthcare for free. Well not free, but let's not get into that part of it for now.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby MJW » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:31 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:I’m willing to have my mind changed on this, so please give it your best.

Why do you believe healthcare is a right?

It's already a right. The government currently says that if you meet certain criteria, you have the right to healthcare.

I'm simply demanding they extend that right to everyone.


I wholeheartedly reject this line of reasoning MB. I'll ignore the larger issue (that rights cannot be derived from exploiting the labor of others) and simply question the implication here. Are you saying that everyone has a "right" to whatever social programs happen to be offering them? There are government programs for free computers, free therapy pets, etc. Are these "rights" as well by virtue of being extended at taxpayer expense to people who meet certain criteria?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:36 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.

So all social programs and subsidies are a right?

That's a crazy perspective.

Is it really all that different from royal patronage?

The crown has decreed the poor children shall receive a doctor to tend to thier every need, for I am merciful.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby MJW » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:45 pm

RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607


There are few economic ideas that have failed as consistently as price controls, but sure. Trump is already a fake conservative like Nixon, he might as well go whole hog.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:49 pm

MJW wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:It's already a right. The government currently says that if you meet certain criteria, you have the right to healthcare.

I'm simply demanding they extend that right to everyone.


I wholeheartedly reject this line of reasoning MB. I'll ignore the larger issue (that rights cannot be derived from exploiting the labor of others) and simply question the implication here. Are you saying that everyone has a "right" to whatever social programs happen to be offering them? There are government programs for free computers, free therapy pets, etc. Are these "rights" as well by virtue of being extended at taxpayer expense to people who meet certain criteria?

No. I'm saying healthcare is a right by practice and by law. And the government should not limit itself as to who shall receive the right to exercise it.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:30 pm

Oh, and the right to exploit another's labor is hogwash. 6th Amendment.

Lawyers are ok, but not doctors?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Babeinbucland » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:59 pm

Seems like I heard somewhere there is an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare seems pretty critical to life, but hey, I am sure some of you right wingers or DINOS can spin this pretty go. AND GO!
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:56 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.


Somewhere in life when MB was growing up, he wasnt taught that nothing in life is free cept death and taxes. There is a blockage in his cranium.
The one benefit that is crazy noticable is since Obamacare costs have soared for everyone to make more money in the medical profession, which I maintain was the major reason in making it happen in the first place. Everyone knows when business grabs extra money they arent never going to let it go - except higher.

MB, who gets to decide the free healthcare for us and who pays for it? We could conquer a few countries and enslave them to work for us to pay for our health care ------------------------- right?

During the primaries everybody except Trump was saying medicare and social security benefits were going to die except for Trump, I guess MB believes the Dems arent going to have the clause that you have to have no money, extra houses, land, or toys --- before you get free.



The people who have been beating the system have known this for decades and they hide their money.


MB has Winston like scatter flaws.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:30 am

Babeinbucland wrote:Seems like I heard somewhere there is an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare seems pretty critical to life, but hey, I am sure some of you right wingers or DINOS can spin this pretty go. AND GO!


The day will come when you get old enough to need and see how special your healthcare is.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:45 am

MJW wrote:
RedLeader wrote:"President Donald Trump on Thursday unveiled a plan to overhaul how Medicare pays for certain drugs, attacking “foreign freeloaders” that he says have driven up costs in the U.S. The bold move addresses a Trump campaign pledge to lower drug prices, just days before the tightly contested midterm elections in which health care is playing a pivotal role."

"The proposal would bypass Congress by using a pilot program to test three ways to lower the costs of drugs — including negotiating for some drugs directly administered by doctors to keep them in line with the far lower prices paid in many other countries, where governments often take an active role in setting prices. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... lan-888607


There are few economic ideas that have failed as consistently as price controls, but sure. Trump is already a fake conservative like Nixon, he might as well go whole hog.



I have a friend who had multiple strokes, kidney failure, kidney transplant and has been put on disability. The one thing I can tell you, he was denied everything till he got rid of all his money (down to $3,000 I think) and now everytime he goes to the Doctor or hospital, the one thing he can count on is hearing how are you paying. No matter what they are getting some of that disability.

I tell him he's crazy that I would say I can give you $10.00's a month ----------------- but then again, I'm not in his shoes...
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:35 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.

I see rights as existing outside of the government. The government does not provide rights, it only guarantees them/defends them. If the government provides them, then they can simply take them away, too. So that’s not going to convince me that healthcare is (or should be) a right.

Again, why is healthcare a right? Feel free to reference the other rights we have in your answer.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:36 am

Babeinbucland wrote:Seems like I heard somewhere there is an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare seems pretty critical to life, but hey, I am sure some of you right wingers or DINOS can spin this pretty go. AND GO!

Can you explain why your definition of the inalienable right to life includes free flu shots but not protection for the life of the unborn? On the face, it just seems arbitrary.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:06 am

Babeinbucland wrote:Seems like I heard somewhere there is an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare seems pretty critical to life.


Do abortion next.

Seems like not having your neck severed and limbs dismembered would be pretty critical to life as well, no?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby MJW » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:09 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.

I see rights as existing outside of the government. The government does not provide rights, it only guarantees them/defends them. If the government provides them, then they can simply take them away, too. So that’s not going to convince me that healthcare is (or should be) a right.

Again, why is healthcare a right? Feel free to reference the other rights we have in your answer.


It's also worth remembering the government isn't PROVIDING anything of it's own here, which is what the language implies. They're forcibly harvesting the labor of one group and redistributing that labor to another group as they see fit.

The "as they see fit" part isn't the problem here. Well, it's certainly A problem. But not THE problem.

Rights are not things that can be taken from one party and given to another. That's not how any of this works. Whatever is being discussed here isn't a right.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:12 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The determination that healthcare is a right has already been made. But the government limitations on that right are arbitrary meaning that the government gets to decide who gets free healthcare and who gets to pay the insurance companies.

The government should not be the ones determining who does or does not get healthcare for free or cheap.

I see rights as existing outside of the government. The government does not provide rights, it only guarantees them/defends them. If the government provides them, then they can simply take them away, too. So that’s not going to convince me that healthcare is (or should be) a right.

Again, why is healthcare a right? Feel free to reference the other rights we have in your answer.


I’m sort of in this boat ... something can’t really be a right if it puts an obligation on someone else.

For example - my right to free speech puts no obligation on you (negative right). Whereas if you give someone a “right” to Healthcare or college education or jobs (or whatever the current progressive trend it) those rights create obligations on others (positive right).
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