**OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

A Place to respectfully discuss those topics that you should never discuss.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:14 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I don't think the USA leaving is a good thing, but this is more of a statement of protest as the UN Human Rights Council has displayed a notorious anti-Israel agenda for years. That is why the US is leaving.

Why are most of their decisions focused on Israel while far worse human rights offenders like the Saudis and Iranians receiving a pass?

On that note why are the Saudis even on the Council to begin with?

My question for Babe would be why is she anti-Israel?

Why are you pro-Israel?


Sad you'd ask, but off the top of my head..

Because they are America's best alley in that region of the world
Because I recognize their right to exist when most of their neighbors in the region would annihilate them if not for US support
Because they most closely resemble western democracy in that region
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:31 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Why are you pro-Israel?


Sad you'd ask, but off the top of my head..

Because they are America's best alley in that region of the world
Because I recognize their right to exist when most of their neighbors in the region would annihilate them if not for US support
Because they most closely resemble western democracy in that region

Fair points.

Is there anything Israel could do to jeopardize that support short of rejecting US relations?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:40 pm

we're Luca Brasi to Isra*l's Vito Corleone. We're not in a position to just stop supporting our guy.

This is similar to the energy thing. This is not just some trivial question. It is by design and one of the most important and guarded things in the world.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:42 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:we're Luca Brasi to Isra*l's Vito Corleone. We're not in a position to just stop supporting our guy.

This is similar to the energy thing. This is not just some trivial question. It is by design and one of the most important and guarded things in the world.


Israel is by far the most progressive and enlightened society in the region. We should absolutely support them in their struggle for existence.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:48 pm

who cares?

what gave us the right to create another country out of thin air a **** things up for other people?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:49 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:we're Luca Brasi to Isra*l's Vito Corleone. We're not in a position to just stop supporting our guy.

This is similar to the energy thing. This is not just some trivial question. It is by design and one of the most important and guarded things in the world.


Israel is by far the most progressive and enlightened society in the region. We should absolutely support them in their struggle for existence.

Struggle my ass, they dominate the region militarily and economically.

I think we are the only thing stopping Israel from taking the West Bank and Golan heights by force right now. And I don't trust Netanyahu one goddamned bit.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:50 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:who cares?

what gave us the right to create another country out of thin air a **** things up for other people?



This has happened since the beginning of time. Every single country is an arbitrary abstraction.

People with power (guns and money) have always drawn the lines....and they always will.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:51 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:who cares?

what gave us the right to create another country out of thin air a **** things up for other people?



This has happened since the beginning of time. Every single country is an arbitrary abstraction.


right, but the land is generally won by force of the people in proximity, looking to expand their territory - not gifted by the winning party in an entirely unrelated conflict


- and then the scope of influence becomes a serious consideration, does it not?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:54 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:who cares?

what gave us the right to create another country out of thin air a **** things up for other people?


We created Israel?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:55 pm

Let's kill the Joos and the Boomers!!!
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:56 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
Israel is by far the most progressive and enlightened society in the region. We should absolutely support them in their struggle for existence.

Struggle my ass, they dominate the region militarily and economically.

I think we are the only thing stopping Israel from taking the West Bank and Golan heights by force right now. And I don't trust Netanyahu one goddamned bit.


I don't trust N*tanyahu one gd bit either - but they're winnning the war the way you win a 21st- 22nd century war - through propaganda and public opinion. They have been making steady territory gains for 50 years now, why change course? The whole region will be theirs by 2100, SA will figure out a way to coexist with them, the same way coke and pepsi have



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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:00 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:who cares?

what gave us the right to create another country out of thin air a **** things up for other people?


We created Israel?


Essentially. They couldn't have done it without us and our influence on the UK to give up some of its colonial lands. We recognized them as a sovereign nation immediately and the rest is history
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:03 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Struggle my ass, they dominate the region militarily and economically.

I think we are the only thing stopping Israel from taking the West Bank and Golan heights by force right now. And I don't trust Netanyahu one goddamned bit.


I don't trust N*tanyahu one gd bit either - but they're winnning the war the way you win a 21st- 22nd century war - through propaganda and public opinion. They have been making steady territory gains for 50 years now, why change course? The whole region will be theirs by 2100, SA will figure out a way to coexist with them, the same way coke and pepsi have



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I know you are one that rails against a simple glossing over of complicated topics...and that's why I like talking with you so much on here.

The Israel thing isn't something that was simple. When you think who controlled the land for the last three thousand years it isn't simple at all. Right now Isreal does. The Jews had controlled that land at other times as well. And in between it got conquered and reconquered.



As for your propaganda thing...we are one of the few nations in the world that is sympathetic to the Jewish state. I hardly call that a successful propaganda campaign.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:11 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
I don't trust N*tanyahu one gd bit either - but they're winnning the war the way you win a 21st- 22nd century war - through propaganda and public opinion. They have been making steady territory gains for 50 years now, why change course? The whole region will be theirs by 2100, SA will figure out a way to coexist with them, the same way coke and pepsi have



Image



I know you are one that rails against a simple glossing over of complicated topics...and that's why I like talking with you so much on here.

The Israel thing isn't something that was simple. When you think who controlled the land for the last three thousand years it isn't simple at all. Right now Isreal does. The Jews had controlled that land at other times as well. And in between it got conquered and reconquered.



As for your propaganda thing...we are one of the few nations in the world that is sympathetic to the Jewish state. I hardly call that a successful propaganda campaign.


Sure, that's fine, but were the Israeli people in the position, whatsoever, in 1945 to win the territory they ultimately gained, through any conventional means necessary - their acquisition of land, and the way it occured, in 1947, was a pretty unprecedented victory, wouldn't you say?

And cmon - every nation in the world is sympathetic to the plight of the jews and what they endured in WWII - whatever lack of support they have throughout the world is completely overshadowed by the casual sympathy that the holocaust brings them
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:14 pm

I think people can be sympathetic to Jews but not sympathetic to Israel. In fact, I think that describes most of Europe recently.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:21 pm

Maybe - MAYBE only in the last 3-5 years or so. MAYBE. Data? Driving atm. Would love to pick this up later
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:19 am

Kinda looks like they are taking the 12 tribes of Israel.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:05 am

The Outsider wrote:
mightyleemoon wrote:
The wife wanted a pergola last year so I built that. And then she wanted a raised garden over on the far side of the yard. So, I built that, too. There's probably more. But, those two are in the yard and since I spend most of my awake time in the yard, those two just come to mind.


How does it make you feel that Obama apparently said you didn't build that?


It makes me feel like you have a comprehension problem if you think that's what that comment is talking about.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Babeinbucland » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:08 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Rocker wrote:I don’t think anyone would argue leaving the HRC is a good decision.


I don't think the USA leaving is a good thing, but this is more of a statement of protest as the UN Human Rights Council has displayed a notorious anti-Israel agenda for years. That is why the US is leaving.

Why are most of their decisions focused on Israel while far worse human rights offenders like the Saudis and Iranians receiving a pass?

On that note why are the Saudis even on the Council to begin with?

My question for Babe would be why is she anti-Israel?


My question for you is why would you assume I am?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:07 pm

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"Don't say I never gave you anything"...






lol..




Classic.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:46 pm

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Good song... lol
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:07 pm

BRUSSELS—President Donald Trump slammed Germany’s natural-gas imports from Russia as the NATO summit kicked off Wednesday, targeting a Baltic Sea pipeline project that has sparked discord within Europe and is splitting the alliance.

Germany is “captive to Russia” and enriches Moscow while benefiting from North Atlantic Treaty Organization protection, Mr. Trump said, criticizing the Nord Stream 2 project. The offshore pipeline, being developed by Russia’s state-run POA Gazprom, is slated for completion next year.








































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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:35 pm

Yeah, Germany gets ~70 percent of it's energy from renewables, and only 36 percent of it's oil/natural gas supply from Russia. Clearly they're totally dependent to the point of lacking autonomy
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:59 am

The Outsider wrote:Yeah, Germany gets ~70 percent of it's energy from renewables, and only 36 percent of it's oil/natural gas supply from Russia. Clearly they're totally dependent to the point of lacking autonomy


I think Trump has (somewhat of a) point. NATO is supposed to help Western Europe resist Russian influences. How is the US supposed to justify spending our GDP on the defense of countries who are expanding their relationship with Russian without coercion?

Would you pay fire insurance premiums for a neighbor who decided to build a bonfire in his living room?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:22 am

Ken Carson wrote:
The Outsider wrote:Yeah, Germany gets ~70 percent of it's energy from renewables, and only 36 percent of it's oil/natural gas supply from Russia. Clearly they're totally dependent to the point of lacking autonomy


I think Trump has (somewhat of a) point. NATO is supposed to help Western Europe resist Russian influences. How is the US supposed to justify spending our GDP on the defense of countries who are expanding their relationship with Russian without coercion?

Would you pay fire insurance premiums for a neighbor who decided to build a bonfire in his living room?

The US has $27 Billion in imports from Russia. Are we compromised?

https://ustr.gov/map/countriesaz/ru

It'll be interesting what the spin from the NATO deal turns out to be. GMA was too blown away by the deal to levy any real criticism. My take is that we just boosted our defense spending by umpteen billion only for the POTUS to turn around and tell NATO that his defense budget is too expensive. He also beat around the bush that NATO was obsolete, yet demanded the other NATO countries spend more money on it.

I expect at least one country to hint at leaving NATO, but they won't. Trump gets a win politically.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:29 am

The US is paying its NATO obligations, so it’s not the same thing.

The argument you are making goes both ways. If the European countries think NATO is necessary, then they should pay what they have agree to pay for defense. If they don’t think it is necessary, then they should dissolve the alliance.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:33 am

Ken Carson wrote:The US is paying its NATO obligations, so it’s not the same thing.

The argument you are making goes both ways. If the European countries think NATO is necessary, then they should pay what they have agree to pay for defense. If they don’t think it is necessary, then they should dissolve the alliance.

Either way you slice it, Trump is not real popular in Europe right this minute. Personally, I DO think NATO is obsolete, but it gets used as a piece on the chessboard for the US.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby NavyBuc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:21 am

Watching this hearing on Strzok is pretty funny. No wonder everyone hates Congress. These are a bunch of idiots, although I can tolerate Trey Gowdy. But he's getting out of politics, although not that I blame him. I'd get out of that shitshow, too.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:04 pm

Trump: NATO to hike defense spending

President Trump announced that NATO allies have pledged to increase defense spending by “an extra $33 billion … other than the US,” according to The Guardian. Trump also stated that U.S. commitment to NATO, “remains very strong.” On Wednesday, a 23-page NATO declaration was signed by Trump and 28 other heads of state in Brussels following months of negotiations. Trump had also earlier called on other NATO members to more than double their military spending; the alliance has a goal of all 29 members reaching 2% of their GDP spent on defense by 2024.





Apparently Macron does not agree... lol
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:10 pm

Europe has never lived up to their goals/promises whether it be defense spending or the climate

They're promises are meaningless

one of the many reasons i'm glad we are more skeptical of them now, call them out on it and have left things like the Paris Accord
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