**OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

A Place to respectfully discuss those topics that you should never discuss.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:It doesn't matter. Even though we work hard to better our lives for ourselves, you'll never convince these guys that we don't just sit around waiting for handouts from the gubmint while we cry about racism or sexism constantly.


I don't think anyone thinks you or MB are looking for handouts. Many think you want us to handout our money to the government to pay for others. If you want to be altruistic, by all means donate a large portion of your money to the poor.That's awesome. If enough of you did it, especially the wealthy, it would achieve the goals you are seeking. My qualm is that you want to force me to join your cause and you want the big leaky government to enforce, manage, and allocate the money.



Have you sat down and understood just how good your post is?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:18 pm

Buc2 wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:It doesn't matter. Even though we work hard to better our lives for ourselves, you'll never convince these guys that we don't just sit around waiting for handouts from the gubmint while we cry about racism or sexism constantly.

No... Your biggest problems are sitting around believing all the IYI's that have no skin in the game.

Yeah. That's it. The accountant/financial analyst and the senior engineer aren't good with numbers and rely on "intellectual idiots" to form our opinions. Good call.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:30 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:It doesn't matter. Even though we work hard to better our lives for ourselves, you'll never convince these guys that we don't just sit around waiting for handouts from the gubmint while we cry about racism or sexism constantly.


I don't think anyone thinks you or MB are looking for handouts. Many think you want us to handout our money to the government to pay for others. If you want to be altruistic, by all means donate a large portion of your money to the poor.That's awesome. If enough of you did it, especially the wealthy, it would achieve the goals you are seeking. My qualm is that you want to force me to join your cause and you want the big leaky government to enforce, manage, and allocate the money.

How wonderfully simple you have put this. It's a ridiculous oversimplification, but high marks for brevity.

MB has said time and again that wages should be higher. That's not the government giving handouts. His arguments are rooted in how higher wages could stimulate the economy. That's not altruism. It's pragmatic. And that's just one example.

It's fine to disagree with his reasoning and conclusions, but don't translate Chinese into German and call it French.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:35 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
I don't think anyone thinks you or MB are looking for handouts. Many think you want us to handout our money to the government to pay for others. If you want to be altruistic, by all means donate a large portion of your money to the poor.That's awesome. If enough of you did it, especially the wealthy, it would achieve the goals you are seeking. My qualm is that you want to force me to join your cause and you want the big leaky government to enforce, manage, and allocate the money.

How wonderfully simple you have put this. It's a ridiculous oversimplification, but high marks for brevity.

MB has said time and again that wages should be higher. That's not the government giving handouts. His arguments are rooted in how higher wages could stimulate the economy. That's not altruism. It's pragmatic. And that's just one example.

It's fine to disagree with his reasoning and conclusions, but don't translate Chinese into German and call it French.


It was in response to a specific post by CLW.

But to your point, he's also requested time and again for single payer health care, free college, and things like UBI.

Increasing wages is another horse we've beat to death, but it's another avenue the federal government shouldn't have a place to dictate to states and businesses. Not all places are equal.

If it makes you happy we can hang a banner for a 15 dollar federal minimum wage and keep things the way they are.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:41 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:How wonderfully simple you have put this. It's a ridiculous oversimplification, but high marks for brevity.

MB has said time and again that wages should be higher. That's not the government giving handouts. His arguments are rooted in how higher wages could stimulate the economy. That's not altruism. It's pragmatic. And that's just one example.

It's fine to disagree with his reasoning and conclusions, but don't translate Chinese into German and call it French.


It was in response to a specific post by CLW.

But to your point, he's also requested time and again for single payer health care, free college, and things like UBI.

Increasing wages is another horse we've beat to death, but it's another avenue the federal government shouldn't have a place to dictate to states and businesses. Not all places are equal.

If it makes you happy we can hang a banner for a 15 dollar federal minimum wage and keep things the way they are.


But even the things you mention aren't real handouts. They are things that benefit everyone and levels access to health and education between the haves and have nots, while simultaneously improving the health and education levels of our country. How could that be a bad thing?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:44 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
It was in response to a specific post by CLW.

But to your point, he's also requested time and again for single payer health care, free college, and things like UBI.

Increasing wages is another horse we've beat to death, but it's another avenue the federal government shouldn't have a place to dictate to states and businesses. Not all places are equal.

If it makes you happy we can hang a banner for a 15 dollar federal minimum wage and keep things the way they are.


But even the things you mention aren't real handouts. They are things that benefit everyone and levels access to health and education between the haves and have nots, while simultaneously improving the health and education levels of our country. How could that be a bad thing?


Speaking of an incorrect translation.

UBI, free college, social security, universal healthcare are handouts. They are redistributing wealth from people who work hard and/or have money to people who don't. Again, if you believe in that...go sponsor people to go to college. That's on you. Many of us want nothing to do with that.

Edit: How the hell isn't that a hand out? What do you think a hand out is? The government is literally handing out **** for free and a large portion of the population does not want to foot that bill.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:59 pm

There are lots of people who work hard that do not earn loads of money, and loads of people who do not work hard who do have a lot of money. If that algorithm was absolute, your point would be stronger.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:02 pm

Ken Carson wrote:There are lots of people who work hard that do not earn loads of money, and loads of people who do not work hard who do have a lot of money. If that algorithm was absolute, your point would be stronger.


How is that relevant?

It doesn't matter if they work hard or not, some simply do not want their money redistributed. My original point stands, you seemingly got lost trying to shift the point.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:03 pm

Ken -- the issue I (and like minded folks like our Cockfan here :D ) is that we will never have universal agreement on what is good and beneficial. The programs you listed might be good in your eyes but they won't be in everyone's. I don't think my neighbors should get free college just by being born here. I don't think I should have to subsidize other people's healthcare ... particularly when so many people make horrible lifestyle choices -- eating, not exercising, etc.

Just remember while you may agree with the freebies being thrown around now...at some point, the culture will shift and the next freebie being proposed you might not like.





Mind you, I'm speaking at the federal level. If cities like Seattle want to put up a ridiculously high wage floor and tax stuff like soda...all the power to them. If states like California want to go in for a single payer health care system...they should do it.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:00 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:
But even the things you mention aren't real handouts. They are things that benefit everyone and levels access to health and education between the haves and have nots, while simultaneously improving the health and education levels of our country. How could that be a bad thing?


Speaking of an incorrect translation.

UBI, free college, social security, universal healthcare are handouts. They are redistributing wealth from people who work hard and/or have money to people who don't. Again, if you believe in that...go sponsor people to go to college. That's on you. Many of us want nothing to do with that.

Edit: How the hell isn't that a hand out? What do you think a hand out is? The government is literally handing out **** for free and a large portion of the population does not want to foot that bill.

First off, Let's throw out UBI. That is not something I want now. That discussion is about how automation could eliminate the ability for a large segment of the population to sell their labor to earn a living which is something I always have and always will from now to the end of fookin time say is the A #1, best ever, nothing gonna top it other than owning capital methodology for building wealth in our economy.

as for the other stuff, **** you, man. That's nothing more than a "**** you, got mine" attitude. You grew up in a country that has Social Security Medicare, and Medicaid and now that you got a little money in your pocket, you don't want to pay the freight that the two preceding generations did to make sure they didn't die penniless? **** move from a **** ideology.

Don't ****ing cry to me about redistribution you goddamned bootlicker.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:03 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Buc2 wrote:No... Your biggest problems are sitting around believing all the IYI's that have no skin in the game.

Yeah. That's it. The accountant/financial analyst and the senior engineer aren't good with numbers and rely on "intellectual idiots" to form our opinions. Good call.

Perhaps you two don't, but many of your fellow libs do. Just like you like throwing around how we (me and others here) get all our news from FOX. Same difference. You want to throw around bs, expect bs to be thrown back.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:04 pm

I apologize for the name calling, I just find that perspective reprehensible.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Ya that was pretty shitty on your part MB

No one spoke like that to you. Best delete it
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Ya that was pretty shitty on your part MB

No one spoke like that to you. Best delete it

I'll let it stay as an example of how not to do it.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:38 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Ya that was pretty shitty on your part MB

No one spoke like that to you. Best delete it

I'll let it stay as an example of how not to do it.


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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm

nvm, I was wrong.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:45 pm

Sigh.

Anyway. All these "handouts" as usc put it, are not going away, so there's really no point in debating it.

What's next?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I apologize for the name calling, I just find that perspective reprehensible.


Right. That's how I feel about your perspective. How closed minded are you to believe that we all think the way you do, or that morals are absolute and yours are righteous? No matter how mad you get, I don't care about the same things that you do. That's why there are differing ideologies in this country.

There is merit in debating these programs as some are they are always expanding and contracting with various administrations.

edit: I'll take the passive aggressiveness offline.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:05 pm

Here's a big difference in our ideology.

I want you to have what you want. I want you to be able to live in a place where you can have all the socialism you can handle, but I don't want any part of that. Much like Zarni said earlier. California should be able to implement a single payer healthcare if it wants, but South Carolina wants nothing to do with that. That's how it should be.

You want me to have and live the way you want. Period...the end.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:08 pm

lol aren't we all some holy rollers now! dude threw a couple cuss words around, but didn't really say anything doxxing or personal, we're all dudes - I know damn well ya'll have started lettin the "mf'ers" and "**** that"s fly when you've been passionate about something (surely I'm not the only one right :shock: )

let's move on lol
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:10 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:we're all dudes



Speak for yourself
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:we're all dudes



Speak for yourself


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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:16 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I apologize for the name calling, I just find that perspective reprehensible.


Right. That's how I feel about your perspective. How closed minded are you to believe that we all think the way you do, or that morals are absolute and yours are righteous? No matter how mad you get, I don't care about the same things that you do. That's why there are differing ideologies in this country. If you aren't mature enough to have a level headed debate, maybe you should take some time off of a message board, which is a platform for arguing, debating, and fleshing out ideas.

There is merit in debating these programs as some are they are always expanding and contracting with various administrations.

I'm not sure where else to go with you, man. I've conceded merit in your arguments and I increasingly get anger and vitriol when attempting to have a discussion. Are your posts/ideas locked in and not open for debate?

Don't use my momentary lack of temper as an excuse to lecture me.

Its not that my morals and opinions are riteous, its that yours are perverse. Or maybe it's not so much your morality in question, but the things you propose be done to fit it. I'm not so sure which.

As I've said, nothing you suggest with regard to social security will come close to reality so I'm not going to debate its merits or faults anymore because your fantasy simply pisses me off.

I can blow off idiot opinions about the politics of the day from the likes of Brazen or mdb, but your take on subjects like this frankly infuriates me because I know you're smart enough to mean what you say. And no matter the mental gymnastics, you've dwelled on it. How you sit and think on that topic and come up with that conclusion simply does not add up to me because the only variable in your equation is how that course of action affects YOU. Complete disregard for everyone else.

Hate to break it to you but you're not the only person in the boat.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:21 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Here's a big difference in our ideology.

I want you to have what you want. I want you to be able to live in a place where you can have all the socialism you can handle, but I don't want any part of that. Much like Zarni said earlier. California should be able to implement a single payer healthcare if it wants, but South Carolina wants nothing to do with that. That's how it should be.

You want me to have and live the way you want. Period...the end.

Stop telling me what I want. You keep getting it wrong anyway.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:28 pm

I responded in a PM. This is the second thread we've derailed in so many days.

Anyway...Has anyone ever proven Trump has or doesn't have a hair piece?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:51 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:I responded in a PM. This is the second thread we've derailed in so many days.

Anyway...Has anyone ever proven Trump has or doesn't have a hair piece?


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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:28 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I responded in a PM. This is the second thread we've derailed in so many days.

Anyway...Has anyone ever proven Trump has or doesn't have a hair piece?


The wind.


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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby RedLeader » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:38 pm

US leadership approval by country‬
‪ ‬
‪Israel 67%‬
‪Poland 56%‬
‪S Africa 47% (record low)‬
‪S Korea 39%‬
‪Japan 31%‬
‪Brazil 33%‬
‪UK 33%‬
‪India 29%‬
‪Turkey 27%‬
‪France 25%‬
‪Germany 22%‬
‪Canada 20%‬
‪Mexico 16% (record low)‬
‪Norway 13%‬
‪Russia 8%‬

‪Gallup‬








You'd think Russia would be more approving given they allegedly helped elect the guy... amirite?
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:11 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Right. That's how I feel about your perspective. How closed minded are you to believe that we all think the way you do, or that morals are absolute and yours are righteous? No matter how mad you get, I don't care about the same things that you do. That's why there are differing ideologies in this country. If you aren't mature enough to have a level headed debate, maybe you should take some time off of a message board, which is a platform for arguing, debating, and fleshing out ideas.

There is merit in debating these programs as some are they are always expanding and contracting with various administrations.

I'm not sure where else to go with you, man. I've conceded merit in your arguments and I increasingly get anger and vitriol when attempting to have a discussion. Are your posts/ideas locked in and not open for debate?

Don't use my momentary lack of temper as an excuse to lecture me.

Its not that my morals and opinions are riteous, its that yours are perverse. Or maybe it's not so much your morality in question, but the things you propose be done to fit it. I'm not so sure which.

As I've said, nothing you suggest with regard to social security will come close to reality so I'm not going to debate its merits or faults anymore because your fantasy simply pisses me off.

I can blow off idiot opinions about the politics of the day from the likes of Brazen or mdb, but your take on subjects like this frankly infuriates me because I know you're smart enough to mean what you say. And no matter the mental gymnastics, you've dwelled on it. How you sit and think on that topic and come up with that conclusion simply does not add up to me because the only variable in your equation is how that course of action affects YOU. Complete disregard for everyone else.

Hate to break it to you but you're not the only person in the boat.



Well I never, least I know now who's gonna get cracked with the oar.
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Re: **OFFICIAL 'FORTY-FIVE' DISCUSSION THREAD**

Postby Ken Carson » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:56 am

uscbucsfan wrote:Here's a big difference in our ideology.

I want you to have what you want. I want you to be able to live in a place where you can have all the socialism you can handle, but I don't want any part of that. Much like Zarni said earlier. California should be able to implement a single payer healthcare if it wants, but South Carolina wants nothing to do with that. That's how it should be.

You want me to have and live the way you want. Period...the end.


Replace the word "socialism" and phrase "a single payer healthcare" with "slavery," swap the states, and you've got the argument your ancestors made 160 years ago.

The biggest difference between your ideology and mine is that I want what I think is best for the country. What you want is what you think is best for the country sort of, but more so what is best for you and your family. If I had to rank it, it'd be 1.) usc and family, 2.) the parts of the country I like and people who agree with me, and 3.) everyone else.
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