so....social security

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so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:51 am

As we know, since 2010 social security has paid out more in benefits than it collected in taxes (it currently has a budget of $1T!). It has been drawing down the assets it had accumulated up until 2010 when it traditionally brought in far more taxes then monies it distributed. However, those assets are starting to run short because much of the money that is supposed to be sitting in a social security fund has been "invested" in Treasure Bills. So basically social security gave loans to the Treasury to pass out how it saw fit with a promise of repayment. And as I'm sure you are all aware, the Treasury doesn't have that money to pay back Social Security. Every president in my adult lifetime has allowed this to happen.

So basically SS is insolvent. Reason.com did an analysis that said if no changes are made, by 2030 the benefits would have to be cut by 25% and that assumes that all these IOU's from the Treasury will be paid back! (which of course they might be...but in order to raise them, new taxes will have to be levied)....or even worse, new money printed.



So what are your thoughts on how we can improve the financial health of this program?

--Adopt a system like Australia that mandates 9.5% of all employees' paychecks go into a retirement account for them to make people less reliant on the gov't system?
--Live with a 25% cut in benefits?
--Limit who gets to actually use the benefits? (A common idea here is a means test -- rich people don't get to receive benefits)
--increase SS on everyone (employees now are taxed roughly 6% and their employers must match it)?
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:26 am

Remove the cap on social security tax wages.

Double employer portion of FICA and go to $15 minimum wage

seize Zarni's financial holdings

execution of Baby Boomers by lottery (Boomers love the lotto)
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Re: so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:31 am

believe it or not, i have posted several times in the past about removing the cap on income so that all income pays SS tax...i have no problem with that at all.
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Re: so....social security

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 am

Hunger games on Hoverounds. It will get great ratings. HUGE. Best ever.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:38 am

Zarniwoop wrote:believe it or not, i have posted several times in the past about removing the cap on income so that all income pays SS tax...i have no problem with that at all.

That was a plank of Bernie's campaign. Taxpayers have to fix this through wages in order to support Buc2 and Terry.

SS and Medicare taxes are paid as a percentage of wages. If wages are higher, more SS tax is paid to keep it solvent.

But I'm a liberal and cause homelessness with my policies so....
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Re: so....social security

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:42 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:But I'm a liberal and cause homelessness with my policies so....

True.
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Re: so....social security

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:00 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:believe it or not, i have posted several times in the past about removing the cap on income so that all income pays SS tax...i have no problem with that at all.

That was a plank of Bernie's campaign. Taxpayers have to fix this through wages in order to support Buc2 and Terry.

SS and Medicare taxes are paid as a percentage of wages. If wages are higher, more SS tax is paid to keep it solvent.

But I'm a liberal and cause homelessness with my policies so....

Sounds great, MB, but you're going to have to figure out a slogan you can put on a sign to draw in voters like Buc2. Don't worry if it makes sense or not, they don't really care.

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Re: so....social security

Postby Pirate Life » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:54 pm

Reinstate the lock box that we had the last bit of the Clinton administration. Stop Congress from using SS funds to pay for gov't expenses.

Take the cap off of social security for wages. If you are paid a wage, every dollar should be subject to SS tax.
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Re: so....social security

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:59 pm

ship 25% of the boomer population to africa and haiti. they seem to love those places. or at least they they do on the internet
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:31 pm

My ideal scenario is to end social security. I'd be fine losing what I've already paid into, but we all know that will never happen. I hate every aspect of the idea of social security and all the plans to "fix it" outside of eliminating it.

I'll just be grumpy in my corner.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:My ideal scenario is to end social security.

No.
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:33 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:My ideal scenario is to end social security.

No.


Of course you say no. You love the idea redistributing wealth by the government.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:37 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:No.


Of course you say no. You love the idea redistributing wealth by the government.

Of course you say yes. You love the idea of redistributing wealth through tax law, union busting, wage suppression, political bribery, and market manipulation.
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Of course you say no. You love the idea redistributing wealth by the government.

Of course you say yes. You love the idea of redistributing wealth through tax law, union busting, wage suppression, political bribery, and market manipulation.


That doesn't even make sense.

I'm for free market and less government intervention. The smaller the government, less taxes, less involvement, etc. the better. I don't think you pay attention....
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Of course you say yes. You love the idea of redistributing wealth through tax law, union busting, wage suppression, political bribery, and market manipulation.


That doesn't even make sense.

I'm for free market and less government intervention. The smaller the government, less taxes, less involvement, etc. the better. I don't think you pay attention....

It sucks when people tell you what you believe, doesn't it?
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Re: so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
That doesn't even make sense.

I'm for free market and less government intervention. The smaller the government, less taxes, less involvement, etc. the better. I don't think you pay attention....

It sucks when people tell you what you believe, doesn't it?




That’s about 70% of this forum :P
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:47 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
That doesn't even make sense.

I'm for free market and less government intervention. The smaller the government, less taxes, less involvement, etc. the better. I don't think you pay attention....

It sucks when people tell you what you believe, doesn't it?


Are you saying that I'm incorrect?

I've been reading your posts about UBI, Social Security, universal healthcare, and other socialized programs for years. Are you not for that stuff?

Instead of a No. to doing away with social security, can you understand why those do not believe in programs that redistribute wealth? Maybe add to a discussion?
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:49 pm

We've been doing the small government, tax cuts for the job creators bit for nearly 40 years.

It doesn't work, it'll never work, it's long past time to ditch it as a remotely viable policy.

All it creates is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:54 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:We've been doing the small government, tax cuts for the job creators bit for nearly 40 years.

It doesn't work, it'll never work, it's long past time to ditch it as a remotely viable policy.

All it creates is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.


1. We have not done "small government" for years. I don't even know how you would qualify that statement.
2. I mean tax cuts across the board. Shrink the federal governments power and scope. Give things back to the states. This has been going the opposite since the Civil War.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:56 pm

Indeed. We are nowhere near small government....surely that was said in jest
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:59 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:We've been doing the small government, tax cuts for the job creators bit for nearly 40 years.

It doesn't work, it'll never work, it's long past time to ditch it as a remotely viable policy.

All it creates is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.


1. We have not done "small government" for years. I don't even know how you would qualify that statement.
2. I mean tax cuts across the board. Shrink the federal governments power and scope. Give things back to the states. This has been going the opposite since the Civil War.

Oh sure, the price of government has gone up, but it has been deregulating for decades.

What does it get us?
Real estate and stock bubbles.
Bank bailouts.
Drilling, logging, and mining in national parks and forests.
Offshoring of the manufacturing sector.
Schools sending kids door to door so they can afford band instruments.

On and on and on.
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:01 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
1. We have not done "small government" for years. I don't even know how you would qualify that statement.
2. I mean tax cuts across the board. Shrink the federal governments power and scope. Give things back to the states. This has been going the opposite since the Civil War.

Oh sure, the price of government has gone up, but it has been deregulating for decades.

What does it get us?
Real estate and stock bubbles.
Bank bailouts.
Drilling, logging, and mining in national parks and forests.
Offshoring of the manufacturing sector.
Schools sending kids door to door so they can afford band instruments.

On and on and on.


Those are all examples of big government shitting the bed...

edit: I can't tell if you are really in on this conversation, providing as little as possible to end it out of annoyance, or you are just joking.
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Re: so....social security

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:05 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
1. We have not done "small government" for years. I don't even know how you would qualify that statement.
2. I mean tax cuts across the board. Shrink the federal governments power and scope. Give things back to the states. This has been going the opposite since the Civil War.

Oh sure, the price of government has gone up, but it has been deregulating for decades.

What does it get us?
Real estate and stock bubbles.
Bank bailouts.
Drilling, logging, and mining in national parks and forests.
Offshoring of the manufacturing sector.
Schools sending kids door to door so they can afford band instruments.

On and on and on.


Oh, I've got some!

It's gotten us a triopoly in telecomms that ***** us down like we owe them.

It's gotten is an incredibly easy to corrupt political system where corporations and mega wealthy citizens can use their wealth to buy politicians, effectively becoming oligarchs.

It's gotten us an erosion of workers unions which has been a large contributor to many problems, among them regressing workers rights and poor education.

It's gotten us the opioid epidemic.

It's gotten us a system that finds it more practical to lie to workers who's professions are being phased out rather than put programs in place to retrain and prepare those people for other lines of work.

Edit: The strongest our country has ever been was in the wake of an administration that instituted more changes(proportionately), especially regulatory, than any administration before or since. Only the attempted, and poorly at that, dissolution of that framework has brought us to where we are today.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:10 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Oh sure, the price of government has gone up, but it has been deregulating for decades.

What does it get us?
Real estate and stock bubbles.
Bank bailouts.
Drilling, logging, and mining in national parks and forests.
Offshoring of the manufacturing sector.
Schools sending kids door to door so they can afford band instruments.

On and on and on.


Those are all examples of big government shitting the bed...

edit: I can't tell if you are really in on this conversation, providing as little as possible to end it out of annoyance, or you are just joking.

Yes. Shitting the bed by eschewing its responsibility to the public.

Yes, I'm serious. How is it that the "Free Market" is completely blameless?

Did the government force Ken Lay to lie to his shareholders?

Did the government force tobacco companies into marketing their products as perfectly safe and even beneficial for health?

Did the government force banks into creating bogus accounts and loans at Wells Fargo?

No. But the government did get left to pick up the pieces.
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Re: so....social security

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:22 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Those are all examples of big government shitting the bed...

edit: I can't tell if you are really in on this conversation, providing as little as possible to end it out of annoyance, or you are just joking.

Yes. Shitting the bed by eschewing its responsibility to the public.

Yes, I'm serious. How is it that the "Free Market" is completely blameless?

Did the government force Ken Lay to lie to his shareholders?

Did the government force tobacco companies into marketing their products as perfectly safe and even beneficial for health?

Did the government force banks into creating bogus accounts and loans at Wells Fargo?

No. But the government did get left to pick up the pieces.


You believe we have any facet of a free market? Everything is so deep in politics that there's not way to test any sort of free market practices.

The government and it's regulations allowed Wells Fargo to become the super power they became in the first place. Other regulations caused the recession/housing crash. Afterwards the new regulations that have been put in place are killing all of the smaller banks in the country and creating more banking mergers than we've had in history. We went from 26 Banks in NC last year to 6 due to the new regulations and the smothering of smaller FIs. The regulations are bolster the mid-large tier banks who were the biggest issue in the first place.

A heavy handed government and a free market cannot exist together by definition. The pieces the government is "forced" to pick up it's culpable for and honestly, in most cases, uncalled for.

I've never stated anything about anarchy. Any sort of criminal acts absolutely need repercussions. There needs to be some governmental control, but it's gotten too big and too encompassing.To allow an overtly corrupt group of people who run one of the worst organizations in the world control everything is asinine.

Instead of allowing consumers to take losses and learn from mistakes, allowing the market to make corrections, you believe the government should step in and control everything? This same government that bleeds losses on a daily basis.
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Re: so....social security

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:45 pm

You guys better a have chunk saved up when you finally decide to end your weekly pay check. If you plan on doing more than just sitting in your house it needs to be a big chunk, one that takes a long while to go away.
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Re: so....social security

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:47 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Yes. Shitting the bed by eschewing its responsibility to the public.

Yes, I'm serious. How is it that the "Free Market" is completely blameless?

Did the government force Ken Lay to lie to his shareholders?

Did the government force tobacco companies into marketing their products as perfectly safe and even beneficial for health?

Did the government force banks into creating bogus accounts and loans at Wells Fargo?

No. But the government did get left to pick up the pieces.


You believe we have any facet of a free market? Everything is so deep in politics that there's not way to test any sort of free market practices.

The government and it's regulations allowed Wells Fargo to become the super power they became in the first place. Other regulations caused the recession/housing crash. Afterwards the new regulations that have been put in place are killing all of the smaller banks in the country and creating more banking mergers than we've had in history. We went from 26 Banks in NC last year to 6 due to the new regulations and the smothering of smaller FIs. The regulations are bolster the mid-large tier banks who were the biggest issue in the first place.

A heavy handed government and a free market cannot exist together by definition. The pieces the government is "forced" to pick up it's culpable for and honestly, in most cases, uncalled for.

I've never stated anything about anarchy. Any sort of criminal acts absolutely need repercussions. There needs to be some governmental control, but it's gotten too big and too encompassing.To allow an overtly corrupt group of people who run one of the worst organizations in the world control everything is asinine.

Instead of allowing consumers to take losses and learn from mistakes, allowing the market to make corrections, you believe the government should step in and control everything? This same government that bleeds losses on a daily basis.



Well, when you get in to the territory of stocks and financial institutions, our global financial model is ****ing shenanigans anyway. It's almost like were the ****ing Orks from Warhammer 40k and the only thing holding it all together is because we collectively think it works.
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Re: so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:19 pm

The Outsider wrote:

Well, when you get in to the territory of stocks and financial institutions, our global financial model is ****ing shenanigans anyway. It's almost like were the ****ing Orks from Warhammer 40k and the only thing holding it all together is because we collectively think it works.




There’s no doubt there is a bit of hour of cards come crumbling down feeling to it to support its perpetual 7% growth. But there are also growing assets that back up the ownership claims.

Apart from the ridiculous tech sector most of the well established companies still trade around the 20:1 P/E ratio. When that gets all messed up, like it did in tech stocks bubble the correction will follow
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Re: so....social security

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:25 pm

Pirate Life wrote:Reinstate the lock box that we had the last bit of the Clinton administration. Stop Congress from using SS funds to pay for gov't expenses.



This is an absolute must ... and reason number 5,987 you can trust any government official .... they took our money to help pay for older retired folks. They then gave that money away. Now they have to collect from our kids to pay for the older folks we already paid for.


Seems like good management to me ... where can I sign up?
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Re: so....social security

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:36 pm

If I paid my money in and you paid your money in, your statement is lacking.
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