Random Education News

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Re: Random Education News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:46 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:MB,

While I agree to an extent. I don't think we can ever truly have something like that with a government run system. I don't even know where to begin with thinking of implementing something that is non-structural, but uniform. How would grading work? College? How would we know if kids are even learning? What about the kids that are simply untalented and/or have behavior or psychological issues?

All valid questions, but I think its best to define what the desired end state looks like and how to get a kid there from Kindergarten before we determine what metrics can measure the effectiveness of the plan.

To put all the metrics first is to create the exact same environment that we are trying to dismantle in one way or the other.

That's my point. What you said sounds good getting high with friends, but it isn't applicable in the real world.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:49 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:All valid questions, but I think its best to define what the desired end state looks like and how to get a kid there from Kindergarten before we determine what metrics can measure the effectiveness of the plan.

To put all the metrics first is to create the exact same environment that we are trying to dismantle in one way or the other.

That's my point. What you said sounds good getting high with friends, but it isn't applicable in the real world.

Not with that attitude.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:52 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:That's my point. What you said sounds good getting high with friends, but it isn't applicable in the real world.

Not with that attitude.


OK
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:55 am

As everyone knows, I am a big believer that our current system is far too much "one size fits all"

but i equally don't like losing all structure



and I know i'm very different then lots here when i say education is fundamentally about acquiring knowledge and learning how to learn. education should not be used as a training for jobs (though there at times can be overlap -- for example, critical thinking should be taught in education, it not only serves as a basis to teach lifelong learning, it helps in practical areas like job performance). however, apprenticeships and entry level jobs are for teaching job skills. education is for teaching how to learn and it requires the study of all traditional disciplines.











----


as an aside, MB i have NO idea how you can square your idea towards individual learning with gov't run education. even the best decentralized private schools in the US with absolutely no bureaucracy nor any mandates can achieve individualized learning.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:58 am

Zarniwoop wrote:As everyone knows, I am a big believer that our current system is far too much "one size fits all"

but i equally don't like losing all structure



and I know i'm very different then lots here when i say education is fundamentally about acquiring knowledge and learning how to learn. education should not be used as a training for jobs (though there at times can be overlap -- for example, critical thinking should be taught in education, it not only serves as a basis to teach lifelong learning, it helps in practical areas like job performance). however, apprenticeships and entry level jobs are for teaching job skills. education is for teaching how to learn and it requires the study of all traditional disciplines.

Totally fine with this.

I See your edit. I'll try to explain in a bit.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:00 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:and I know i'm very different then lots here when i say education is fundamentally about acquiring knowledge and learning how to learn. education should not be used as a training for jobs (though there at times can be overlap -- for example, critical thinking should be taught in education, it not only serves as a basis to teach lifelong learning, it helps in practical areas like job performance). however, apprenticeships and entry level jobs are for teaching job skills. education is for teaching how to learn and it requires the study of all traditional disciplines.


I agree with this. Things like graphing on a coordinate plane and long division help with learning how to learn, developing your brain, teaching how to do research, how to write, how to think critically. No one cares in 20 years about what the green light in the Great Gatsby really meant, but the skills you learned in reading, analyzing, and writing the report on it will stay with you forever.

My 6 year old son is in Spanish immersion. Because he's so confused and shocked with learning Spanish, he doesn't realize he's actually learning math and doing well with it. It's awesome.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby PanteraCanes » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:10 pm

From my understanding there is somewhat an option for such things. There are many charter and magnet schools that have emphasis on different focuses. Some that focus on music, some that focus on learning through animals and habitats.

I do know this is mostly talking about Tampa, but this website is based on a team in Tampa. So it is not far fetched to feel that impacts most of the users. I believe MB is in the panhandle somewhere so the choices might be less up there as it would be a less populated area. So the ability to cater to different focuses would be less.

I know one trend that is going around is Montessori education. This is more focused on letting the child themselves select what they want to learn. I have seen it more in pre-school but there might be a chance for one of these to be a charter or magnet school near you MB?

My experience is that magnet schools are a lot more willing to work with you rather than charter schools. Also from what I have heard account of, the charter schools are much more demanding of your own personal time and donations.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:19 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:No one cares in 20 years about what the green light in the Great Gatsby really meant, but the skills you learned in reading, analyzing, and writing the report on it will stay with you forever.



Very well put ... sadly fewer and fewer people think like this nowadays...they focus on the ends, not the means. Education is almost exclusively about the means
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:44 pm

Structure and discipline are essential to a child's development according to physiologists and other child development professionals. So long as that is maintained, I see no reason that schools can't explore outside of the box. A little. But the main curriculum will still need structure to ensure that every child is learning at some base, quantifiable level.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:16 am

Good summary of the current court case of Asian students vs Harvard

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... n-students



I hope Harvard gets their ass handed to them.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:27 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Good summary of the current court case of Asian students vs Harvard

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... n-students



I hope Harvard gets their ass handed to them.


Harvard flatly denies that its admissions process involves discrimination or quotas on racial groups. The university says that race is just one of a number of factors considered – and that it is only considered as a positive factor, not a negative one.

This, imo, is just wrong in today's world. Race should not be considered, what-so-ever, in the admissions process. All perspective students should be considered on merit. The bolded part alone is discrimination.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:35 pm

I almost went to John Carroll as an undergrad

Declan Leary, a conservative student at a private Jesuit university in Ohio, was questioned by the administration after objecting on religious grounds to the annual campus drag show.

"I can't help but wonder who thought it would be a good idea to hire grown men to dress up as women on a Catholic campus for the deviant entertainment of misguided young people," he wrote in an op-ed for the campus newspaper.

The piece generated heated argument. It also attracted the attention of John Carroll University's Title IX coordinator, who met with Leary and his editor about the article's publication, according to The College Fix.

"I just got the impression that he was required to meet with me because of all the complaints he received about the column," Leary told The College Fix, noting that the vice president for student affairs and vice president for mission and identity have both scheduled meetings as well


.....


"My identity is not up for debate," Lillian Perkins, a philosophy student who identifies as non-binary, told Cleveland.com. "This is not a hot-button topic in the first place. My LGBTQ+ peers are not an issue to be addressed in a newspaper ... The fact he even thinks it's up for debate is dehumanizing.".
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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm

I assume these "non-binary" folks don't appreciate the irony of their chosen ideology.

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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:11 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:



Thanks for the video...I remember posting about the dog park one a while ago.

There is so little critical thought in parts of academia right now it's downright embarrassing. Every journal will be biased towards the popular/faddish in its field...and to some degree that's fine. For example right now in the top business journals if you write about sustainability or conscious capitalism your paper is much more likely to be accepted simply because those are the ideas that society is debating right now. And to me that is perfectly fine. The fad ideas should get a bit more press as we work through them. The issue however is what the video brings up -- its not just the bias towards topics, its the bias TOWARDS A SINGLE POSITION on those topics. There is no real debate. There is no real investigation or exploration. There is no search for truth. There is simply confirmation of what the author's already believe.

And as a vocation...we are letting society down. :oops:


Joe Rogan just had a pod with them where they dove into this further. Highly recommend listening..

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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:48 am

Thx, I’ll definitely give it a listen
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:15 am

After penning an op-ed for The New York Times decrying the ideological homogeneity of his campus administration, a conservative-leaning professor at Sarah Lawrence College discovered intimidating messages—including demands that he quit his job—on the door of his office. The perpetrators had torn down the door's decorations, which had included pictures of the professor's family.


#resist
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:15 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
After penning an op-ed for The New York Times decrying the ideological homogeneity of his campus administration, a conservative-leaning professor at Sarah Lawrence College discovered intimidating messages—including demands that he quit his job—on the door of his office. The perpetrators had torn down the door's decorations, which had included pictures of the professor's family.


#resist



I mean, it's a ridiculous gripe. Not being upset about having pictures of family torn down, that is legitimate, but complaining about the ideological homogeneity of the campus administration. Academics trend liberal and it's been that way for pretty much the entirety of human history. It would be like an athiest professor teaching at TCU getting upset that TCU's administration is too homongenously Christian.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:05 pm

Yes my post isn’t about the liberal ideological dominance in college campuses ...otherwise I would post about that all the time. If colleges go extreme left let them. The market will sort it out

My post is about the ridiculous students that get so offended by what is clearly a factual argument that they destroy the guy’s personal effects, harass him and call for him to be fired ... more from the “words are violence crowd”.


If you don’t like something someone says you have all the right in the world to criticize it, I fully support that right for everyone.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:52 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Yes my post isn’t about the liberal ideological dominance in college campuses ...otherwise I would post about that all the time. If colleges go extreme left let them. The market will sort it out

My post is about the ridiculous students that get so offended by what is clearly a factual argument that they destroy the guy’s personal effects, harass him and call for him to be fired ... more from the “words are violence crowd”.


If you don’t like something someone says you have all the right in the world to criticize it, I fully support that right for everyone.

I was pretty sure your post would have been easily understood. I guess I was wrong.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:05 pm

Florida Charter school owner sentenced to 20 years in prison and a $5 Million fine for fraud.

#shocked
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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:19 pm

TRUMP ADMIN PROMOTING RAPE CULTURE via "DUE PROCESS"!

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is set to release a sweeping overhaul of how colleges and universities must handle allegations of sexual assault and harassment, giving new rights to the accused including the ability to cross-examine their accusers, people familiar with the matter said.

The proposal is set for release before Thanksgiving, possibly this week, and replaces less formal guidance issued by the Obama administration in 2011. The new rules would reduce liability for universities, tighten the definition of sexual harassment and allow schools to use a higher standard in evaluating claims of sexual harassment and assault.

The rules stem from a 1972 law known as Title IX that bars sex discrimination at schools that receive federal funding. Most of the attention is on higher education, but the rules also apply to elementary and secondary schools. Once published in the Federal Register, the proposal will be open for public comment before being finalized.

The regulation lands amid a national debate over sexual assault, including whether Brett M. Kavanaugh should have been elevated to the Supreme Court after allegations surfaced that as a teenager he sexually assaulted a girl. He denied the accusation and was confirmed. Defending Kavanaugh, President Trump declared it “a very scary time for young men in America” who faced the possibility of false claims.

Last year, DeVos rescinded the 2011 Obama guidance, denouncing it as overly prescriptive and lacking due process for the accused. She promised to write a regulation to replace it.

In a 2017 speech, she offered several examples of students she said were wrongly accused of wrongdoing under the old rules. She also said the rules poorly served survivors who were forced through multiple appeals because the system had “failed the accused.”

“Schools have been compelled by Washington to enforce ambiguous and incredibly broad definitions of assault and harassment,” she said. “Institutions must be mindful of the rights of every student.”

The rules come after years of rising pressure on universities to better respond to allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct, and the proposal is likely to anger those who fear victim claims will be ignored or minimized. But the new direction has been welcomed by men’s rights groups, who say the Obama guidelines were weighted in favor of the accusers, and by some university administrators who found the Obama version overly prescriptive and confusing.

The proposed rule will dodge a related controversial matter regarding the rights of transgender students. The Department of Health and Human Services had urged the Education Department to include a provision defining gender as someone’s biological sex at birth. The DeVos proposal does not include that idea.

But several people said it is possible the Education Department will later issue a letter or fact sheet that asserts sex discrimination does not include complaints related to gender identity.

People with direct knowledge of the rules and others briefed on them spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the proposal.

A leaked draft of the Title IX rules was published online in September, and five people familiar with the planning said this week only a handful of changes have been made to the rules since then.

The most significant change would guarantee the accused the right to cross-examine their accusers, though it would have to be conducted by advisers or attorneys for the people involved, rather than by the person accused of misconduct. If requested, the parties could be in separate rooms during the cross-examination, an administration official said. They said this was done to bolster the due process rights of the accused while assuring that victims are not directly confronted by their assailants.

The Obama guidelines had strongly discouraged use of cross-examination. The earlier DeVos draft allowed it but did not require schools to offer it as an option.

Some White House officials urged going further to include a mandatory cross-examination provision, two people familiar with internal discussions said. They said others in the administration argued that mandatory questioning was ill-advised, potentially traumatic for victims and not required in court hearings.

The proposal will include language barring questioning about an accuser’s sexual history, one administration official said.

Jess Davidson, executive director of the advocacy group End Rape on Campus, said she made the case to the White House against the cross-examination provisions, decrying it as “an extraordinarily cruel process” that would discourage victims from reporting assaults.

“Most survivors would be unwilling to go through a process that allows the person who sexually assaulted them to cross-examine them, and rightfully so,” she said.

Others argue that colleges failed to protect the rights of the accused under the Obama guidelines. For instance, many schools used a single investigator to gather evidence and decide the case, without an opportunity for the accused to confront their accusers, said Robert Shibley, executive director of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, which supports more robust due process procedures.

“That leaves a huge window of opportunity for the biases of the adjudicator to make themselves felt,” he said.

In another change, the proposal will allow both sides to appeal an adverse ruling, and not just the accused.

The rules will also give universities more flexibility in offering supportive measures to victims, for instance schedule changes or housing reassignments, in a change requested by survivor groups.

The most consequential provisions are unchanged since September.

The biggest may be the standard of proof required in assessing claims. Under the DeVos proposal, schools will be allowed to choose between “preponderance of the evidence” and the higher bar of “clear and convincing” evidence. The Obama guidelines had directed schools to use the “preponderance of the evidence” standard.

The regulation also will require schools to use the same standard in these cases as they use for other complaints, including those against employees and faculty. Many union contracts and other agreements with faculty mandate the use of a higher “clear and convincing” standard, several people said. So as a practical matter, most schools may be forced to apply the same higher bar for student complaints.

“It’s intentional,” said one person briefed on the rules. “It’s DeVos saying, ‘Yeah, you have a choice, but you can’t have a higher burden of proof for unionized faculty.’ ”

In another major change from 2011 Obama guidelines, the new rules more narrowly define sexual harassment. It must be “unwelcome conduct on the basis of sex that is so severe, pervasive and objectively offensive that it denies a person access to the school’s education program or activity.” Under Obama, harassment was “unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature.”

And the rules raise the bar for when an institution can be held legally responsible for failing to investigate a complaint. Under the new version, the school must have “actual knowledge” of the allegation, made to an official who has the authority to “institute corrective measures.” That means reporting the allegation to a professor or resident adviser is not sufficient to prove the university was aware of the matter because those people are not in a position to formally handle complaints.

Under Obama, the government expected schools to investigate if they knew or “reasonably should” have known about an incident. Universities thought that was overly broad.

Universities appreciate that the new rules will offer more clarity on their responsibilities, said Terry Hartle, a senior vice president for the American Council on Education, which represents university presidents. “What you want is schools being able to act in good faith without hearing that they’re going to be second-guessed by government bureaucrats later on,” he said.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:07 pm

DeVos can’t replace the Obama abomination quick enough


Did you see the story at Chicago? A guy and girl broke up and kept banging for a few months. The girls friends found out about it and she was so embarrassed she claimed he assaulted her. From the night in question the girl texted him she wanted to have sex. When she got to his house they got naked in bed and they FaceTimed one of their common friends for an hour and they were talking about banging.

The dude still got expelled 4 days before graduation and lost the job he had signed up for after graduation


He is suing the school and her
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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:15 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:DeVos can’t replace the Obama abomination quick enough


Did you see the story at Chicago? A guy and girl broke up and kept banging for a few months. The girls friends found out about it and she was so embarrassed she claimed he assaulted her. From the night in question the girl texted him she wanted to have sex. When she got to his house they got naked in bed and they FaceTimed one of their common friends for an hour and they were talking about banging.

The dude still got expelled 4 days before graduation and lost the job he had signed up for after graduation


He is suing the school and her


It's been crazy and was getting progressively worse with time.

This was the right course correction regardless of what anyone may think of DeVos on a personal level. People have rights in this country and shouldn't have their lives ruined based on an allegation. The process has been extremely unfair and was being weaponized.

If you believe in due process this is the right move.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:23 pm

The right move is to take this out of schools hands completely

Hopefully that is where it eventually goes
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Re: Random Education News

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:27 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:The right move is to take this out of schools hands completely

Hopefully that is where it eventually goes


no but the school is the nanny while the wittle babbies are off at uni and they need to make sure nobody gets hurt!
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Re: Random Education News

Postby bucfanclw » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:00 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:The right move is to take this out of schools hands completely

Hopefully that is where it eventually goes


no but the school is the nanny while the wittle babbies are off at uni and they need to make sure nobody gets hurt!

Bmd, putting the sensual back into nonconsensual.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:09 pm

This is not "progress", it's madness and should be criminal. Can Dems please rein this nonsense in b/c stuff like this isn't right on any level.

Middle school females shouldn't be permitted access to male lockerooms just as males shouldn't be in girl lockerooms. Male PE teaches shouldn't be mandated to witness female students change their clothes.

This goes far beyond where someone wants to take a damn piss.

Earlier this school year, a school district in Florida allowed a biological female student to access and use a middle school boys’ locker room without any notification or warning to the boys or their parents.

Now, two PE teachers appear to have lost their jobs at the school for not being willing to supervise the female student while she was dressing and showering.

According to a letter of complaint, written to Pasco County School District from Liberty Counsel (a pro-bono law firm committed to defending the constitution), the boys at Chasco Middle School were caught “(literally) with their pants down, causing them embarrassment and concern by the fact that they had been observed changing by an obvious girl.”

“Boys immediately came out of the locker room,” the letter went on, “and approached Stephanie and Robert, seeking assistance. The P.E. teachers were powerless to respond, because administrators had placed a gag order on them, and told them that they could not answer the boys on these questions.”

Furthermore, when the male PE teacher declined to “knowingly place himself in a position to observe a minor female in the nude or otherwise in a state of undress,” he was told by administrators that “he will be transferred to another school as discipline for ‘not doing your job in the locker room.'”

Liberty Counsel attorney Richard Mast stated that a school administrator told the male PE teacher and coach in an email that his refusal to supervise a potentially naked female student “would not be tolerated.” It is also being reported that while the female PE teacher raised objections as well, she was simply ignored.

At the end of October, Liberty Counsel reported that Chasco Middle School parents had still not been notified by the school about the situation, in spite of the fact that the transgender student continues to have access to male-only areas. The district school board, which oversees approximately 70, 500 students, has refused to take action, and school administrators have also remained steadfast in their decision to punish the male teacher.

Mast is, however, not entirely surprised.

“Unfortunately these things are going on across the country,” the attorney stated, “primarily with school psychologists and guidance counselors.”

Mast went on to explain that public schools will oftentimes enact such transgender policies without first informing parents and voters. The problem, he believes, is that this results in the public finding out only after something bad has already occurred.

In the case of Pasco County School District, it appears that its transgender policies were developed after the hiring of Jackie Jackson-Dean, a school psychologist selected to be the district’s LGBT liason.

In a guide for district teachers and staff titled “Talking Points about Gender-Inclusive Schools,” if other students (or their parents) report being uncomfortable changing or showering in front of a student of the opposite sex, the teacher is to respond by saying they are unable to discuss the situation. The guide also directs teachers to offer to “help you or your child better understand gender-related issues.”

“Your child’s rights are not being violated when a transgender student accesses the facilities that correspond to their gender identity,” the script for teachers reads.

Liberty Counsel has asked that the district “1) immediately inform boys at Chasco Middle School (and their parents) about their privacy rights, vis-à-vis the girl in their locker room; 2) confirm that neither teachers nor students will be forced to use false gender pronouns to refer to other people; and 3) immediately cease all punitive action against the P.E. teachers, including any reassignment to another school.”

Since the initial incident occurred in September and legal action was threatened in October, there has been no response.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:02 pm

Wow.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:10 pm

Buc2 wrote:Wow.


It's craziness. I'd be outraged if my middle school aged kid wen there.

Zany leftists (who probably don't even have children) push this nonsensical ideology that ends up in legislation. Now we have some confused 11-12yr old girl who thinks she is a boy and being allowed/forced into the male lockerroom and the male PE coach is being mandated to watch.

The parents of the other boys were not even notified of this.

What happens when a trans-girl (male that thinks he's a girl) is allowed into the female lockeroom and gets to watch them undress? Do their parents get notified?
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Re: Random Education News

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:19 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Wow.


It's craziness. I'd be outraged if my middle school aged kid wen there.

Zany leftists (who probably don't even have children) push this nonsensical ideology that ends up in legislation. Now we have some confused 11-12yr old girl who thinks she is a boy and being allowed/forced into the male lockerroom and the male PE coach is being mandated to watch.

The parents of the other boys were not even notified of this.

What happens when a trans-girl (male that thinks he's a girl) is allowed into the female lockeroom and gets to watch them undress? Do their parents get notified?


fuckin HELL.
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