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Re: Random Education News

Postby RedLeader » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:38 pm

Student loans hit $1.5 trillion


Total U.S. student loan debt reached around $1.5 trillion in the early months of 2018 and women hold about two-thirds of it, according to a CNN report, citing data from the American Association of University Women. The average graduate now owes around $28,400, with women owing $2,740 more than a man upon completing a degree.





Good grief.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:41 pm

Craziness indeed.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:45 pm

That's ****ing nuts. I'm so glad I don't have that **** to deal with.

I have a friend who has like 60 grand in student loans all so he can have a call center job with an investment firm making ~38k a year. His degree is in economics. ****. That. Noise.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:47 pm

I feel sorry for a decent chunk of my students all the time. They are in college cause they think they need to be or cause their parents pushed them, They go through the motions and don’t take advantage of it, and like Outsider says they have a $40,000 loan and take a $35,000 job they didn’t even need a degree for
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:53 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:I feel sorry for a decent chunk of my students all the time. They are in college cause they think they need to be or cause their parents pushed them, They go through the motions and don’t take advantage of it, and like Outsider says they have a $40,000 loan and take a $35,000 job they didn’t even need a degree for

the country is loaded with miserable engineering majors.

I always joked with the psych majors that they just needed therapy, which is waaaaaay cheaper than college.

You cant do squat with a BS in Psych except go to grad school. I wish they told these kids that in intro to psych.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:55 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:I feel sorry for a decent chunk of my students all the time. They are in college cause they think they need to be or cause their parents pushed them, They go through the motions and don’t take advantage of it, and like Outsider says they have a $40,000 loan and take a $35,000 job they didn’t even need a degree for

the country is loaded with miserable engineering majors.

I always joked with the psych majors that they just needed therapy, which is waaaaaay cheaper than college.

You cant do squat with a BS in Psych except go to grad school. I wish they told these kids that in intro to psych.




Sadly more and more fields are like that. A BA/BS does little for you
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:58 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:the country is loaded with miserable engineering majors.

I always joked with the psych majors that they just needed therapy, which is waaaaaay cheaper than college.

You cant do squat with a BS in Psych except go to grad school. I wish they told these kids that in intro to psych.




Sadly more and more fields are like that. A BA/BS does little for you

Harder to distinguish yourself in the job market slam full of educated people. Entry level jobs requiring 5 years experience is cliche now.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:59 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:I feel sorry for a decent chunk of my students all the time. They are in college cause they think they need to be or cause their parents pushed them, They go through the motions and don’t take advantage of it, and like Outsider says they have a $40,000 loan and take a $35,000 job they didn’t even need a degree for



I come from a decent amount of money. Not **** you money, but enough that my parents are more than comfortably retired and I'll be comfortably retired regardless of my profession, if I make it that long anyway. My parents are both college graduates and entrepreneurs and they pushed me extremely hard to go to college. I did, but figured out really young that it isn't really for me. I've had a few tries at it here and there and frankly the structure of the American collegiate system is counter-intuitive to me. I don't have trouble comprehending really anything that I've come across in higher education and frankly and course I've been interested in I've done well in. However, the idea that we need to waste two years either re-hashing high school subjects (which is all most base level college english, math, and science courses are) is kind of stupid. It was demotivating to me, I wanted to learn things specific to what I wanted to do.

I actually ended up making the most money in my 20's in the food service industry. Work in the right place and you can bankroll.

Obviously with maturity I've done better in my more recent stints in college, in fact the last semester I attended I aced 15 credit hours of inane simplistic bullshit I would have given up on out of boredom. But that was three or four years ago.

I've been doing remodeling since and I make probably ~55k a year working more or less part time (I've been known to take a couple weeks off if I don't have any work and don't feel like working) but as a single, 30 year old guy who owns his home and car outright and has no kids 55k is pretty damn comfortable.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby RedLeader » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:00 pm

Ya, we must be the smartest country in the world!


Seriously though. This notion of going to school right after HS is BS. I've always said to take a few years to find out who the **** you are, and what you really want to do with the rest of your life.



Education is free. But school aint... Nor should it be.



So choose wisely.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Sadly more and more fields are like that. A BA/BS does little for you

Harder to distinguish yourself in the job market slam full of educated people. Entry level jobs requiring 5 years experience is cliche now.


I tell my students never to pay attention to listed job requirements when it comes to work experience
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:02 pm

RedLeader wrote:Ya, we must be the smartest country in the world!


Seriously though. This notion of going to school right after HS is BS. I've always said to take a few years to find out who the **** you are, and what you really want to do with the rest of your life.



Education is free. But school aint... Nor should it be.



So choose wisely.



I’m 100% on board with waiting a few years before college .... the old school medieval way :)
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:I feel sorry for a decent chunk of my students all the time. They are in college cause they think they need to be or cause their parents pushed them, They go through the motions and don’t take advantage of it, and like Outsider says they have a $40,000 loan and take a $35,000 job they didn’t even need a degree for



I come from a decent amount of money. Not **** you money, but enough that my parents are more than comfortably retired and I'll be comfortably retired regardless of my profession, if I make it that long anyway. My parents are both college graduates and entrepreneurs and they pushed me extremely hard to go to college. I did, but figured out really young that it isn't really for me. I've had a few tries at it here and there and frankly the structure of the American collegiate system is counter-intuitive to me. I don't have trouble comprehending really anything that I've come across in higher education and frankly and course I've been interested in I've done well in. However, the idea that we need to waste two years either re-hashing high school subjects (which is all most base level college english, math, and science courses are) is kind of stupid. It was demotivating to me, I wanted to learn things specific to what I wanted to do.

I actually ended up making the most money in my 20's in the food service industry. Work in the right place and you can bankroll.

Obviously with maturity I've done better in my more recent stints in college, in fact the last semester I attended I aced 15 credit hours of inane simplistic bullshit I would have given up on out of boredom. But that was three or four years ago.

I've been doing remodeling since and I make probably ~55k a year working more or less part time (I've been known to take a couple weeks off if I don't have any work and don't feel like working) but as a single, 30 year old guy who owns his home and car outright and has no kids 55k is pretty damn comfortable.



Sounds like you figured out what is right for you...that’s pretty rare nowadays I think
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Re: Random Education News

Postby RedLeader » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:


Sadly more and more fields are like that. A BA/BS does little for you

Harder to distinguish yourself in the job market slam full of educated people. Entry level jobs requiring 5 years experience is cliche now.


I know a company that's always looking for a few good 'entry level' men... ;)
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:08 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Harder to distinguish yourself in the job market slam full of educated people. Entry level jobs requiring 5 years experience is cliche now.


I tell my students never to pay attention to listed job requirements when it comes to work experience

in my profession, the key is to watch for specific accounting sofware experience they want you to have. QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc.

The one you know best is the best one for you.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

I come from a decent amount of money. Not **** you money, but enough that my parents are more than comfortably retired and I'll be comfortably retired regardless of my profession, if I make it that long anyway. My parents are both college graduates and entrepreneurs and they pushed me extremely hard to go to college. I did, but figured out really young that it isn't really for me. I've had a few tries at it here and there and frankly the structure of the American collegiate system is counter-intuitive to me. I don't have trouble comprehending really anything that I've come across in higher education and frankly and course I've been interested in I've done well in. However, the idea that we need to waste two years either re-hashing high school subjects (which is all most base level college english, math, and science courses are) is kind of stupid. It was demotivating to me, I wanted to learn things specific to what I wanted to do.

I actually ended up making the most money in my 20's in the food service industry. Work in the right place and you can bankroll.

Obviously with maturity I've done better in my more recent stints in college, in fact the last semester I attended I aced 15 credit hours of inane simplistic bullshit I would have given up on out of boredom. But that was three or four years ago.

I've been doing remodeling since and I make probably ~55k a year working more or less part time (I've been known to take a couple weeks off if I don't have any work and don't feel like working) but as a single, 30 year old guy who owns his home and car outright and has no kids 55k is pretty damn comfortable.



Sounds like you figured out what is right for you...that’s pretty rare nowadays I think


Heh, well I'm not too crazy about the work but it isn't awful. But seriously, before I actually got out in to the world and experienced it I had no idea you could actually make a **** ton of money in plumbing or electrical or even general construction, and I'm not talking about owners but supervisors or even skilled laborers. I know electricians that pull close to $90 an hour on some jobs and they probably average over $50 an hour in general.

It's borderline criminal that we kind of neglect to inform kids that skilled trades are still a great way to make a living if you're willing to work hard.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
I tell my students never to pay attention to listed job requirements when it comes to work experience

in my profession, the key is to watch for specific accounting sofware experience they want you to have. QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc.

The one you know best is the best one for you.



So which one is superior and why is it QuckBooks?
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:in my profession, the key is to watch for specific accounting sofware experience they want you to have. QuickBooks, Peachtree, etc.

The one you know best is the best one for you.



So which one is superior and why is it QuckBooks?

Because the others are inferior!

Intuit is killing it these days. Peachtree is almost gone if it isnt already. Some of the defense contractors around here are using Oracle products and Crystal reports for database, but I prefer small business anyway.

The one downside is you're often a one man band.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:20 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
The Outsider wrote:

So which one is superior and why is it QuckBooks?

Because the others are inferior!

Intuit is killing it these days. Peachtree is almost gone if it isnt already. Some of the defense contractors around here are using Oracle products and Crystal reports for database, but I prefer small business anyway.

The one downside is you're often a one man band.


Ah, I haven't had experience with accounting software since 2012 when my parents sold their business. My dad, who is an entrepreneur but an accountant by trade swears by QuickBooks like it's part of the Trinity. We never used anything else, from his first business in like 1995 until the end.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:50 pm

The Outsider wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Because the others are inferior!

Intuit is killing it these days. Peachtree is almost gone if it isnt already. Some of the defense contractors around here are using Oracle products and Crystal reports for database, but I prefer small business anyway.

The one downside is you're often a one man band.


Ah, I haven't had experience with accounting software since 2012 when my parents sold their business. My dad, who is an entrepreneur but an accountant by trade swears by QuickBooks like it's part of the Trinity. We never used anything else, from his first business in like 1995 until the end.

it's the end all, be all for small business. It really is.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:00 am

RedLeader wrote:Ya, we must be the smartest country in the world!


Seriously though. This notion of going to school right after HS is BS. I've always said to take a few years to find out who the **** you are, and what you really want to do with the rest of your life.



Education is free. But school aint... Nor should it be.



So choose wisely.

I agree 100% with that. My own life is a good example.

I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school. I knew it wasn't college and I knew I didn't want to follow my mom's path into the food service industry. So I chose to join the navy. Worked out pretty well for me. After 4 years of that, I actually had a plan. I would start college and share a place with my mom and two sisters.

I wasn't sure what I wanted to study, so I followed a liberal arts plan and got my associates.

I was only working part time because the GI Bill was paying for my college and, of course, it paid more than I actually needed for tuition and books so it was also supplementing my income. So a part time job was all I needed since I was splitting living expenses 4 ways.

I met my future wife during the last half of my 1st year in college. We decided to get a place on our own so I had to get a full time job. Ended up getting a job with a sporting goods store as their office manager. Later I ended up moving on from that for a better paying bookkeeping job. Thus began my path towards accounting.

Got married during my 2nd year of college and started a family 2 years later. Still working as a bookkeeper, I decided I should go back to college and get a degree in accounting before my GI Bill education benefit time limit expired.

Time line was like this:
1975 - graduated HS & joined the navy
1979 - honorable discharge from the navy
1980 - began community college
1981 - got married
1982 - graduated community college with AA in lib arts
1983 - had 1st daughter
1985 - had 2nd daughter
1988 - knew I wanted to go back to college and get a degree in the field I had been working in the past 7+ years
1989 - went back to college (USF)
1991 - graduated with BS in accounting

So, by the time I knew what I wanted/needed to do, I was 31 years old (1988). Over a decade after graduating HS. This allowed life to steer me in the direction I needed to go to get what I wanted. And the GI Bill, of course, was the instrument that kept me out of debt.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Deuce » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:15 am

Buc2 wrote:
RedLeader wrote:Ya, we must be the smartest country in the world!


Seriously though. This notion of going to school right after HS is BS. I've always said to take a few years to find out who the **** you are, and what you really want to do with the rest of your life.



Education is free. But school aint... Nor should it be.



So choose wisely.

I agree 100% with that. My own life is a good example.

I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school. I knew it wasn't college and I knew I didn't want to follow my mom's path into the food service industry. So I chose to join the navy. Worked out pretty well for me. After 4 years of that, I actually had a plan. I would start college and share a place with my mom and two sisters.

I wasn't sure what I wanted to study, so I followed a liberal arts plan and got my associates.

I was only working part time because the GI Bill was paying for my college and, of course, it paid more than I actually needed for tuition and books so it was also supplementing my income. So a part time job was all I needed since I was splitting living expenses 4 ways.

I met my future wife during the last half of my 1st year in college. We decided to get a place on our own so I had to get a full time job. Ended up getting a job with a sporting goods store as their office manager. Later I ended up moving on from that for a better paying bookkeeping job. Thus began my path towards accounting.

Got married during my 2nd year of college and started a family 2 years later. Still working as a bookkeeper, I decided I should go back to college and get a degree in accounting before my GI Bill education benefit time limit expired.

Time line was like this:
1975 - graduated HS & joined the navy
1979 - honorable discharge from the navy
1980 - began community college
1981 - got married
1982 - graduated community college with AA in lib arts
1983 - had 1st daughter
1985 - had 2nd daughter
1988 - knew I wanted to go back to college and get a degree in the field I had been working in the past 7+ years
1989 - went back to college (USF)
1991 - graduated with BS in accounting

So, by the time I knew what I wanted/needed to do, I was 31 years old (1988). Over a decade after graduating HS. This allowed life to steer me in the direction I needed to go to get what I wanted. And the GI Bill, of course, was the instrument that kept me out of debt.


I wish this message was more commonly given to and taken by kids. When I was younger, everything seemed so rushed. I went to a high school where you graduated with your AA. So I basically chose my path when I was 14. I chose business. When I got to college, my GPA was like .2 or .3 short of qualifying for business school. Instead of taking extra courses to get in, I chose Economics, which was in the Social Sciences school. I was 17, living on my own for the first time with my two best friends, and taking senior college-level courses. It kicked my ass. I still graduated on time before I turned 21. It took me 8 years to get a job in Economics and I love it. But if I could do it all over again, I'd slow down and research other fields, maybe even law, and definitely take the extra courses to get into business school.

Now, everyone asks "why did you pick Economics?" I usually make up something but it's really because I was just lazy.

EDIT: Wanted to add- Everyone that went to my high school was a "smart kid". You had to pass a test to get in, so we were mostly the cream of the crop of high school students, many of us were stolen from the IB program of the local high school. Plenty of us turned out successful- there's a scientist, a guy that invented an app, some school administrators and teachers, etc. But there are a surprising number who didn't make it through college. I can't think of a single doctor or lawyer. And most of us regret the shortened college years. Part of me will always wonder how everyone would've turned out if we had stuck with regular high school.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:31 am

Buc2 and Deuce -- great stories!
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Re: Random Education News

Postby PanteraCanes » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:42 am

RedLeader wrote:Student loans hit $1.5 trillion


Total U.S. student loan debt reached around $1.5 trillion in the early months of 2018 and women hold about two-thirds of it, according to a CNN report, citing data from the American Association of University Women. The average graduate now owes around $28,400, with women owing $2,740 more than a man upon completing a degree.





Good grief.



I have been curious about what contributes to this. Is it just student loan for tuition? My thoughts have leaned toward maybe that living expenses might get rolled into the loans? Probably mostly rent and utilities. Maybe a little spending money?

It has been a while, but I went the cheapest route. I had scholarships which covered it. Started at a community college where I had 2 full scholarships so one was banked. Stayed at home so didn't have those expenses. While I did miss out on some of that freedom at the college age and probably didn't make as many friends as I would have living in some kind of dorm situation, it was probably a lot cheaper and less stress about possibly getting paired up with an idiot in a dorm.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am

PanteraCanes wrote:
RedLeader wrote:Student loans hit $1.5 trillion


Total U.S. student loan debt reached around $1.5 trillion in the early months of 2018 and women hold about two-thirds of it, according to a CNN report, citing data from the American Association of University Women. The average graduate now owes around $28,400, with women owing $2,740 more than a man upon completing a degree.





Good grief.



I have been curious about what contributes to this. Is it just student loan for tuition? My thoughts have leaned toward maybe that living expenses might get rolled into the loans? Probably mostly rent and utilities. Maybe a little spending money?

It has been a while, but I went the cheapest route. I had scholarships which covered it. Started at a community college where I had 2 full scholarships so one was banked. Stayed at home so didn't have those expenses. While I did miss out on some of that freedom at the college age and probably didn't make as many friends as I would have living in some kind of dorm situation, it was probably a lot cheaper and less stress about possibly getting paired up with an idiot in a dorm.

It really depends on the student and the college they go to. Small state schools tend to keep their tuition in the same ballpark as the maximum pell grant. Those students probably have loans for room an board, fees, books, and yes, a little pocket money.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:50 am

Yes, depending on the loans they get and who they get them from, they can have some restrictions on how the money can be spent (only on tuition and fees) or absolutely no restrictions on academic spending (tuition, room and board, etc.)


Right now in Texas the average tuition of a state school is around $8,500 per year (in-state students). Room and board is slightly higher.

The state says the full cost of attendance (tuition, housing, fees, books, etc) is around $22,000.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:01 am

For the record, the average discount rate right now at private schools just went above 50% for the first time ever. That means the average incoming student at a private schools is only charged 50% of its posted tuition and room and board rates. So if a school has a rate of say $40,000 per year (combined tuition and room and board) the student is billed only $20,000.

That doesn't include loans or scholarships they might get from outside sources or the federal gov't which could make that number go down even more.


So if any of you have college aged kids and so far have been put off by a private school's posted price-tag it might be worth investigating a bit.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby The Outsider » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:The state says the full cost of attendance (tuition, housing, fees, books, etc) is around $22,000.


Man, no wonder kids can't afford school. Good luck finding a part time job making half of that.
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Re: Random Education News

Postby RedLeader » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:20 pm

Three words...

Government
Issued
Bill
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Re: Random Education News

Postby Buc2 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:44 pm

Video from Dec. 2016, but still quite relevant.

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Re: Random Education News

Postby Rocker » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 pm

Trade work is severely underrated. I started in healthcare automation in 2012 with zero experience. I’ve increased my salary by 18k since then ( and I get overtime!).

Hard work pays.
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