Random Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:40 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
NYBF wrote:

In looking at mentally ill adults who are actively seeking treatment, I've seen fewer violent tendencies than any control group. Even when either off their meds or their meds need to be "rebalanced," I haven't seen much as far as violence goes. I think a lot of it is not being aware of what's going on inside you. And if you're not aware, you don't know how to act toward it. This kid has obviously been through a lot even without the white supremacist training and the guns. He was adopted, which can be tough to handle. His dad's been gone 12? years. Mom just recently died. He's kind of on his own. No idea what the relationship with the family who took him in is. When you add all that to a possible mental illness diagnosis, it's not a surprise he lashed out.

As far as what I was saying before about the mental health initiative...

I've got zero idea what the numbers would look like. No clue whether it's feasible or not, and I'm not looking up ammo sales and putting together a budget. But I think a real first step would be to set up actual mental health clinics in schools. I'm not taking about a school psychologist who's in one day a week because she's shared among 5 schools in the district and doesn't really know the student body. An actual clinic, run by a hospital, that offers not only services to students, but to their families. Provide training to teachers to be able to identify certain tendencies. Maybe if they see something, they can refer the kid to the clinic for an intake. Let someone with proper training sit down and assess the child's needs. If therapy is needed, have them set up a schedule to make visits at school. If the need is greater, an actual out patient referral program. Follow ups. Get involved with these kids early on to identify the ones that need help.

Our vets (from what I can see. I'm completely on the outside. I've got relatives who serve / have served, but I'm not close enough that I'm discussing their healthcare with them) seem to need a whole lot more help than they're getting. They should have easy access to mental health screenings as soon as they get out. Frequent mental health checkups. Stay with them, even if it seems they are "fine."

Awareness campaigns to eliminate the stigma surrounding mental illness. I don't think it can be that so many people don't care, because nearly everyone knows someone dealing with it. But do you have any idea how difficult it is to raise funds to help the mentally ill? ESPECIALLY adults!

What else can be done? More stringent background checks. You'll have plenty of time to look into an applicant with a longer waiting period. If you are a law abiding would-be gun owner, you shouldn't mind have to wait a few extra days. The gun range will still be there next week. Mental health screenings as part of the application process.

Like I said earlier, this is mostly just off the top of my head. No, it won't eliminate the problems. But I think something like this could lead to a good first step. And I believe it was Zarni who said gun owners shouldn't be saddled with the cost. When SCHIP was first introduced (eventually renamed CHIP), the government decided smokers should have to foot the bill. An extra $1 per cigar was tacked on to my vice. I didn't like it. Didn't have a choice, though.



Thank you for the insightful post.

One thing that shocked me a couple weeks ago was that one of my colleagues has a 16 year old daughter who takes two meds - anxiety and depression. I asked the mom what therapist she sees and the girl doesn’t see one. She goes to a psychiatrist once every three months to get the meds refilled.

I can’t believe that for minors if they are on medication that they don’t have to see a therapist to help them better understand what they are going through — both emotionally and physiologically


jeeeeeeeeeeeeesus
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby NYBF » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Thank you for the insightful post.

One thing that shocked me a couple weeks ago was that one of my colleagues has a 16 year old daughter who takes two meds - anxiety and depression. I asked the mom what therapist she sees and the girl doesn’t see one. She goes to a psychiatrist once every three months to get the meds refilled.

I can’t believe that for minors if they are on medication that they don’t have to see a therapist to help them better understand what they are going through — both emotionally and physiologically


Wow.... I don't even know what to say
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:50 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:One thing that shocked me a couple weeks ago was that one of my colleagues has a 16 year old daughter who takes two meds - anxiety and depression. I asked the mom what therapist she sees and the girl doesn’t see one. She goes to a psychiatrist once every three months to get the meds refilled.

I can’t believe that for minors if they are on medication that they don’t have to see a therapist to help them better understand what they are going through — both emotionally and physiologically

It cost me an arm and a leg, but the first thing my wife and I did when my daughter was saying she felt like she had mental issues and told us she needed medication was to take her to a therapist first to find out why she thought that.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:54 pm

NYBF wrote:This... this blows my mind. I don't care what level affiliation the shooter has with this group. Trained with them once, board of directors, never heard of them. Whatever. The fact that this guy came forward and almost... took credit for it? Like when a guy drives a truck into a group of people and then ISIS releases a statement saying they were responsible. Go round up Jordan and his friends and prosecute them as terrorists. Or hand them over to MS-13. Whatever.

Remember when Trump kept asking why Obama wouldn't say "radical islamic terrorism"?
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:02 pm

bucfanclw wrote:The more disturbing thing is that the kid was a member of a white nationalist militia group. If someone is radicalized by ISIS, they're a terrorist. If they're radicalized by a white nationalist group, they have mental issues.

I don't see how that is more disturbing than the death of 17 innocent people, perhaps you meant something different. But he certainly a carried our an act of terror just like the Vegas shooter. However, his mental health issues are documented and along with his online activity should have been red flags. The FBI dropped the ball. Our ability for those with mental health issues to pass background checks was another failure here.

I don't think a white identitarian killing a bunch of white people is the same someone radicalized by ISIS carryout jihad against infidels. If a jihadist kills a bunch of other jihadists is that terrorism? Maybe it's spitting hairs and not a worthwhile, but I don't see this mass shooting as something that was ideologically driven which targeted a specific demographic. It more so looks like (based his internet history and act itself) a guy that wanted to shoot up a school and inflict mass casualties regardless of their race or gender.

That said, Identitarian ideology is always dangerous and has been that way throughout history. I hope they shut down and question everyone in that group to fully understand their level of involvement and prosecute as applicable.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Buc2 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:08 pm

I was wondering how long it would be before Trump's name was dragged into the discussion.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:25 pm

Buc2 wrote:I was wondering how long it would be before Trump's name was dragged into the discussion.

Yeah, guess there really isn't any parallels between Trump and this kid.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:32 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I was wondering how long it would be before Trump's name was dragged into the discussion.

Yeah, guess there really isn't any parallels between Trump and this kid.
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I certainly wouldn't have connected Obama to a black kid who shot some people if there was a picture of the kid wearing a "Hope" Obama shirt somewhere on the internet - I think the mental instability / lost youth / outsider assessment with this kid is the clearly the overarching story... not political affiliation... whatsoever, really

Even if that imaginary black kid I'm referencing was in some sort of militant black panther get up. I'd still look at him as a kid who was lost after being adopted, losing his adoptive father, losing his adoptive mother, and I would look at his affiliation with a group - whatever type - particularly one focused around violence as a reaching out to take back *some kind* of power in his life - to have control over *some thing* - which is exactly what I see this Cruz kid and his edgelord WN group - just "belonging" to something that helps him feel purposeful, wanted, and like he has control (through violence)
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:45 pm

So the suspect apparently stopped at Subway and McDonalds AFTER the shooting. What a psychopath.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:46 pm

So the fact that he was a radical white nationalist that talked about killing Antifa members is not the story here. The story is mental health because saw a therapist after his adoptive mom died. Got it.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:54 pm

DreadNaught wrote:So the suspect apparently stopped at Subway and McDonalds AFTER the shooting. What a psychopath.

Radicalized terrorists tend not to show remorse since they have been trained not to view victims as human. But that isnt really relevant to this depressed kid...
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:54 pm

DreadNaught wrote:So the suspect apparently stopped at Subway and McDonalds AFTER the shooting. What a psychopath.



Damn.

I guess I don’t know what I’d expect a killer to do after but getting value meal #3 is a bit fucked up
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:58 pm

bucfanclw wrote:So the fact that he was a radical white nationalist that talked about killing Antifa members is not the story here. The story is mental health because saw a therapist after his adoptive mom died. Got it.


This statement reads extremely insensitive to the real story as does your next post. The story is a guy shot a bunch of kids, but I do understand your point. Was he a terrorist? It appears so, with this hate group affiliation. We'll know more once we learn his motive. Was he mentally ill? Absolutely. What's the bigger issue here? It's absolutely mental health, no?
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:06 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:So the fact that he was a radical white nationalist that talked about killing Antifa members is not the story here. The story is mental health because saw a therapist after his adoptive mom died. Got it.


This statement reads extremely insensitive to the real story as does your next post. The story is a guy shot a bunch of kids, but I do understand your point. Was he a terrorist? It appears so, with this hate group affiliation. We'll know more once we learn his motive. Was he mentally ill? Absolutely. What's the bigger issue here? It's absolutely mental health, no?

That seems to be the narrative now. Based on everything I've read, I disagree so I guess that makes me insensitive. One of those girls was a new admit to the UF honors program and recently met with my step-sister up there. I'd prefer we actually did something this time so she didn't have to die in vain to protect a terrorist group.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:07 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
This statement reads extremely insensitive to the real story as does your next post. The story is a guy shot a bunch of kids, but I do understand your point. Was he a terrorist? It appears so, with this hate group affiliation. We'll know more once we learn his motive. Was he mentally ill? Absolutely. What's the bigger issue here? It's absolutely mental health, no?

That seems to be the narrative now. Based on everything I've read, I disagree so I guess that makes me insensitive. One of those girls was a new admit to the UF honors program and recently met with my step-sister up there. I'd prefer we actually did something this time so she didn't have to die in vain to protect a terrorist group.


I don't think you are insensitive. We've had a really good discussion about this in the past, but without that context it reads that way.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:43 pm

If that group is training people to go kill they should absolutely be labeled and pursued as a terrorist group.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby sanka » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:29 pm

A year ago, Trump signed a bill repealing a rule the Obama administration put in place after Sandy Hook that prevented people receiving Social Security benefits for mental disabilities from purchasing guns.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby sanka » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:33 pm

Kids can safely go to school in England, Japan, Aussie and other developed countries.

While it is deja vu as always in America.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:45 pm

A 9th grader in Spartanburg, SC posted a picture on Snapchat holding an AR15 pellet gun with the caption "Round 2 of Florida tomorrow", he has been arrested.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Sammich » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:48 pm

My heart goes out to all those hurt by these school shootings. It truly does. My daughter is in school and this type of thing scares me half to death.

I see a lot of well meaning people making suggestions of how to help prevent these situations (both here and other places), but from my point of view they are all attempts to treat the symptom and not the disease. We have a sick society and these school shootings are just one of many symptoms popping up all over the place.

The family is the backbone of civilization and western society has been doing its best to destroy families for a while now. It's working. A kid needs the balance of both a mother and a father in their lives. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of these people shooting up schools are from broken homes.

Restoring the family would be like antibiotics for society. It would magically fix so many issues in modern society.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:51 pm

Sammich wrote:My heart goes out to all those hurt by these school shootings. It truly does. My daughter is in school and this type of thing scares me half to death.

I see a lot of well meaning people making suggestions of how to help prevent these situations (both here and other places), but from my point of view they are all attempts to treat the symptom and not the disease. We have a sick society and these school shootings are just one of many symptoms popping up all over the place.

The family is the backbone of civilization and western society has been doing its best to destroy families for a while now. It's working. A kid needs the balance of both a mother and a father in their lives. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of these people shooting up schools are from broken homes.

Restoring the family would be like antibiotics for society. It would magically fix so many issues in modern society.


That's not something that can be realistically implemented. It's a mixture of a lot of things that are contributing, there's not just 1 fix that will solve it.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby NYBF » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:52 pm

So America is the only place with divorce? Dafuq?
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Sammich » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:11 pm

NYBF wrote:So America is the only place with divorce? Dafuq?


No, but we are the trend setter.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 pm

Clewy, I'd be interested to know where you're getting your "facts" from since you've introduced and repeated this claim. How do know this guy is a white supremacist? The ADL report from that ROF militia group leader? Local law enforcement in Tallahassee is refuting that connection it sounds like according to the Tallahassee Democrat.

I don't recall any racist social media comments. Was there?

I don't care if he is or isn't. If he is it's a layer to understand but certainly not the main issue since this wasn't a hate crime. Just curious how we know that it's a fact is all.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:16 pm

According to this timeline it was a half an hour from when he opened fire until the police responded. Can that be correct?


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/15/fl ... eline.html
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby sanka » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:19 pm

Sammich wrote:My heart goes out to all those hurt by these school shootings. It truly does. My daughter is in school and this type of thing scares me half to death.

I see a lot of well meaning people making suggestions of how to help prevent these situations (both here and other places), but from my point of view they are all attempts to treat the symptom and not the disease. We have a sick society and these school shootings are just one of many symptoms popping up all over the place.

The family is the backbone of civilization and western society has been doing its best to destroy families for a while now. It's working. A kid needs the balance of both a mother and a father in their lives. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of these people shooting up schools are from broken homes.

Restoring the family would be like antibiotics for society. It would magically fix so many issues in modern society.

Yawn. I am sure you will say this again during the next shooting.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby sanka » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:25 pm

Suffered from depression...I have heard this before...if he was anybody else he would be labeled terrorist, thug, or illegal immigrant...funny how medicated trump reacted to the shooting...he would have emphasized on the wall if it was someone else or how we need tougher immigration.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby NYBF » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:56 pm

Personally I don't care if he's a member of that group. My beef, as far as they go, is that they stepped up and volunteered the info that he was with them. That Jordan ****, and anyone else involved with them, should be hauled in and prosecuted.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby sanka » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 pm

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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:00 am

Theres a flow chart around here somewhere...
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