Random Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:05 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
bucfanclw wrote: But suggesting a national standard for required training and testing seems to really upset some people and I honestly don't know why.


While it doesn't upset me...I can see why people would be opposed to it.

Can you give me another protected right under the constitution that someone needs training in order to exercise?




--we have people on this board that argue against voting ID laws because it causes an unnecessary burden on people because they have to pay for an ID....I'm assuming these training classes wouldn't be free...


Apparently we need 1st amendment training. I never knew so many were ignorant to what the 1st amendment means until the NFL Anthem discussions.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:09 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Which would save the average taxpayer what, $5-$10? People keep saying tax breaks like it's some sort of actual incentive for things but I don't see it. But that's an argument for a different thread.



I agree...that was my point. A $20 tax break (classes are at least $100), wouldn't incentive a lazy gun owner to go to the gun range.


Classes in SC are mostly $80 and a break, depending on how advertised, could incentivize people. It would be promoted as a discounted time to shoot and familiarize people with new guns. I think you would be surprised how many gun owners would take advantage of that. I think you are underestimating a 10-20 dollar savings. Think about the target audience.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:19 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Classes in SC are mostly $80 and a break, depending on how advertised, could incentivize people. It would be promoted as a discounted time to shoot and familiarize people with new guns. I think you would be surprised how many gun owners would take advantage of that. I think you are underestimating a 10-20 dollar savings. Think about the target audience.



You could be right...who knows?

I know lots of people who go 5 to 10 years without firing their weapons....and personally I don't see money as the reason they don't...but my circle is obviously small relative to a national debate
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:23 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Classes in SC are mostly $80 and a break, depending on how advertised, could incentivize people. It would be promoted as a discounted time to shoot and familiarize people with new guns. I think you would be surprised how many gun owners would take advantage of that. I think you are underestimating a 10-20 dollar savings. Think about the target audience.



You could be right...who knows?

I know lots of people who go 5 to 10 years without firing their weapons....and personally I don't see money as the reason they don't...but my circle is obviously small relative to a national debate


Many of my military friends teach conceal and carry classes after they separate (go figure). They get huge bumps in business from little promotions, but it's expensive and in SC, there are so many ranges and instructors where at $80, they are barely making money. A large portion of their clientele are the types that would love for the government to pay a portion of the cost for them to fire, especially "new" (range) weapons. Obviously not everyone would take advantage of any sort of promotion, tax break, etc., but there would be a lot of people who do. Just my opinion.

edit: I mention the target audience for a reason. Many of these stereotypical gun owners fit the bill. These individuals, for the most part, do not want to be forced to take classes annually, but they would love to "stick it to the government" by firing on their dime.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:24 am

Zarniwoop wrote:
bucfanclw wrote: But suggesting a national standard for required training and testing seems to really upset some people and I honestly don't know why.


While it doesn't upset me...I can see why people would be opposed to it.

Can you give me another protected right under the constitution that someone needs training in order to exercise?




--we have people on this board that argue against voting ID laws because it causes an unnecessary burden on people because they have to pay for an ID....I'm assuming these training classes wouldn't be free...

I need a permit to peacefully assemble or else I'm apparently as bad as a Nazi...
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:26 am

ok
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:28 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:
While it doesn't upset me...I can see why people would be opposed to it.

Can you give me another protected right under the constitution that someone needs training in order to exercise?




--we have people on this board that argue against voting ID laws because it causes an unnecessary burden on people because they have to pay for an ID....I'm assuming these training classes wouldn't be free...

I need a permit to peacefully assemble or else I'm apparently as bad as a Nazi...


Good point.

Although one could argue the peaceful portion. Anyone protesting as a Nazi, not likely peaceful, depending on your definition. The same can be said about people counter protesting.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:30 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

You could be right...who knows?

I know lots of people who go 5 to 10 years without firing their weapons....and personally I don't see money as the reason they don't...but my circle is obviously small relative to a national debate


Many of my military friends teach conceal and carry classes after they separate (go figure). They get huge bumps in business from little promotions, but it's expensive and in SC, there are so many ranges and instructors where at $80, they are barely making money. A large portion of their clientele are the types that would love for the government to pay a portion of the cost for them to fire, especially "new" (range) weapons. Obviously not everyone would take advantage of any sort of promotion, tax break, etc., but there would be a lot of people who do. Just my opinion.

So again, a small financial incentive doesn't make much of a difference. While I don't have issue with government funds being used to bring down the cost of training because that has a real societal benefit, I still think the application would be under-served unless accompanied by some sort of training requirement.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:31 am

bucfanclw wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Many of my military friends teach conceal and carry classes after they separate (go figure). They get huge bumps in business from little promotions, but it's expensive and in SC, there are so many ranges and instructors where at $80, they are barely making money. A large portion of their clientele are the types that would love for the government to pay a portion of the cost for them to fire, especially "new" (range) weapons. Obviously not everyone would take advantage of any sort of promotion, tax break, etc., but there would be a lot of people who do. Just my opinion.

So again, a small financial incentive doesn't make much of a difference. While I don't have issue with government funds being used to bring down the cost of training because that has a real societal benefit, I still think the application would be under-served unless accompanied by some sort of training requirement.


Then you lose and nothing will be done.

And that's why nothing has been done regarding guns.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:37 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:I need a permit to peacefully assemble or else I'm apparently as bad as a Nazi...


Good point.

Although one could argue the peaceful portion. Anyone protesting as a Nazi, not likely peaceful, depending on your definition. The same can be said about people counter protesting.

There's certainly hyperbole there on my part, but the Charlottesville Nazis were being routinely defended because they had a permit and the others didn't (even though both groups had permits, but I digress). Point being, I need to apply for a permit and pay a fee for the constitutionally protected right to peacefully assemble. That is generally viewed as perfectly acceptable due to the burden that puts on municipalities, but many people throw a fit if that same standard is applied to untrained people walking around with deadly weapons.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:38 am

bucfanclw wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Good point.

Although one could argue the peaceful portion. Anyone protesting as a Nazi, not likely peaceful, depending on your definition. The same can be said about people counter protesting.

There's certainly hyperbole there on my part, but the Charlottesville Nazis were being routinely defended because they had a permit and the others didn't (even though both groups had permits, but I digress). Point being, I need to apply for a permit and pay a fee for the constitutionally protected right to peacefully assemble. That is generally viewed as perfectly acceptable due to the burden that puts on municipalities, but many people throw a fit if that same standard is applied to untrained people walking around with deadly weapons.


Very few places allow people to walk around with deadly weapons without a permit.
People throw a fit about getting permits to assembly.

People bitch about everything.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:54 am

you don't need a permit and pay a fee to assemble....you have that right, it can't be taken away from you...invite 30 of your friends over to your house on your private land and see if you have to get a federal permit or pay the government to allow you to do that.

now if you choose to do it on certain types of land you might need a permit

just like buying a gun...you don't need a permit to buy a gun

but if you want to carry that gun on certain types of land you have to have a permit and pay a fee

and moreover, just like you won't necessarily be able to have a protest on every piece of land in America...a gun owner who has a right to carry also wont be allowed to take his gun anywhere..there are lots of places I have to leave my gun in my car.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:53 pm

Shooting at Kentucky high school kills 2, injures 19. Student with handgun apprehended.
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby NYBF » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:29 pm

Two straight days with a school shooting. Let's see how long we can ride this streak!
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Re: Random Mass Shooting Thread

Postby Kress » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:22 pm

The gun laws are a joke. In Florida, I just had to show my driver's license, let them run a background to make sure I had no felony convictions, and good to go.
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