When did America stop being great?

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When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:40 pm

A rhetorical question left unanswered from the campaign.

No motives here other than to explore the concept. If we can all somewhat agree that our country has lost some of it's awesomeness, can we pinpoint that to a singular moment in time?

What was the moment where we peaked as a society and began our slow decent to where we are politically, culturally, and economically?
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:42 pm

2004 when social media took off. That's when everyone received a voice to bitch.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:51 pm

One of the things Rush Limbaugh always said that I still agree with is that, and I'm paraphrasing, "People tend to think that history begins at the moment of their birth". A solid observation that points to the tendency to conceptualize based on our individual experiences, given this, there's probably no right answer.

To hear Oliver Stone tell it, it was the Democratic convention in 1944 that installed Harry Truman as Vice President.

Some may say it was VJ Day

Others may say it was the moment the Bucs won the Super Bowl.

A BBC writer said today that is was the Los Angeles Olympic games in 1984.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:59 pm

Great topic MB

My opinion: seeds were sewn directly before WWII, during, and particularly directly after in 1946, 47.

After numerous hits in the 60's (there were enough positive things in the 60's to buoy us though), I'd say early 70's were when we officially stopped being great. Full blow cultural sexual and drug fueled degeneracy, an ill-gotten war, and clandestine subversion of western nations by special interest groups is in full swing.

I'd say the second steep drop (and I mean STEEP) was 2008. USC has the same point but is a little early to the gun IMO.

2005 was a golden year (relative, of course)
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:05 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:One of the things Rush Limbaugh always said that I still agree with is that, and I'm paraphrasing, "People tend to think that history begins at the moment of their birth". A solid observation that points to the tendency to conceptualize based on our individual experiences, given this, there's probably no right answer.

To hear Oliver Stone tell it, it was the Democratic convention in 1944 that installed Harry Truman as Vice President.

Some may say it was VJ Day

Others may say it was the moment the Bucs won the Super Bowl.

A BBC writer said today that is was the Los Angeles Olympic games in 1984.


Interesting, didn't know that was Stone's opinion
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:16 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:Great topic MB

My opinion: seeds were sewn directly before WWII, during, and particularly directly after in 1946, 47.

After numerous hits in the 60's (there were enough positive things in the 60's to buoy us though), I'd say early 70's were when we officially stopped being great. Full blow cultural sexual and drug fueled degeneracy, an ill-gotten war, and clandestine subversion of western nations by special interest groups is in full swing.

I'd say the second steep drop (and I mean STEEP) was 2008. USC has the same point but is a little early to the gun IMO.

2005 was a golden year (relative, of course)


I disagree. I don't think America has changed dramatically. I think that most of the "issues" are from giving a voice to all the criticism. 2004 was the first year we heard people actively making fun of and hating the President, the first that every conspiracy theorist was given a public platform, the first that everyone because as political expert, social warrior, and all knowing. That's when PC really took off and internet bullying became a world wide issue.

I've said this before, but I don't think people are more ignorant, sheepish, hateful, or outspoken than they have ever been. I believe they simply now have a voice. Negative opinions and topics garner the biggest headlines and drives our water cooler talking points. This creates mistrust in the media, fake news, and the connotation that America is significantly less great than it ever has been in the past.

It's completely over dramatized.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Buc2 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:33 pm

Compared to most of the rest of the world, I think America is still great. With that said, I tend to agree with USC as to when things seemed to take a turn south. The advent of the Internet (****ing Al Gore...heh) gave voice to everyone. Used to be, our rants were only heard by our closest friends, family and maybe a few strangers at the local pub. Now we can splash our rants on the Internet for all the world to see. Regardless, America is still great. Trump's slogan would sound better if it were just MAG...Make America Greater.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:36 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:Great topic MB

My opinion: seeds were sewn directly before WWII, during, and particularly directly after in 1946, 47.

After numerous hits in the 60's (there were enough positive things in the 60's to buoy us though), I'd say early 70's were when we officially stopped being great. Full blow cultural sexual and drug fueled degeneracy, an ill-gotten war, and clandestine subversion of western nations by special interest groups is in full swing.

I'd say the second steep drop (and I mean STEEP) was 2008. USC has the same point but is a little early to the gun IMO.

2005 was a golden year (relative, of course)


I disagree. I don't think America has changed dramatically. I think that most of the "issues" are from giving a voice to all the criticism. 2004 was the first year we heard people actively making fun of and hating the President, the first that every conspiracy theorist was given a public platform, the first that everyone because as political expert, social warrior, and all knowing. That's when PC really took off and internet bullying became a world wide issue.

I've said this before, but I don't think people are more ignorant, sheepish, hateful, or outspoken than they have ever been. I believe they simply now have a voice. Negative opinions and topics garner the biggest headlines and drives our water cooler talking points. This creates mistrust in the media, fake news, and the connotation that America is significantly less great than it ever has been in the past.

It's completely over dramatized.


Respectfully,
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First iPhone dropped in 2007
Facebook was only ivy league schools 2004, college only emails 2005, and regular 13+ in 2006. Didn't take hold for at least another year after that
Twitter came out 2006, didn't pick up until late 2007
Youtube started in 2005, was purchased by google and became what we know it as now in 2006 (and still didn't have NEARLY the reach or impact it has today, maybe 5% of what it has today back in 2007-2008)

2004 hating on the president was still done by major media outlets and nerds on forums (and there was no pipeline from forums to real life like there is now, so they were isolated pockets of interaction). the internet was still like 75% male (need source) back then

PC internet social justice warrior **** only came around like 5-6 years ago, IMO, before then it was just a bunch of guys talking bullshit girls didn't care about (video games, engineering ****, sports ****)

By 2008-2009 every girl and dumbshit got a phone and facebook and a platform, and the full blown narcissism and decay of relationships, interactions, and discourse you describe occured.

But until 2006-2007, that hadn't happened. It just didn't. I remember it because I had just gotten to college right before that and I still remember the glimmer of natural light of interactions with people in the library, on the bus, and at parties --- I left college 10 years later, and by then everybody was a god damn zombie with their face stuck in their phones everywhere they went and you were a ****ing creep (me lol) if you didn't and lived like you were in the 90's or something


I agree with your overall point, just not the timeline
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:37 pm

I've lived in 6 different countries and visited countless more. America is by far the best place in the world and it's not even close IMO.

Facebook was released to almost all major colleges in 2004. I joined in 2004 with most of my friends my age.

edit: My point stands and we are in somewhat of an agreement over social media's impact on the view of our country/world/lives. I point to 2004 because that's when myself and everyone I knew went all in on Facebook. I understand that twitter, common fb users, etc. didn't come out until later.
Last edited by uscbucsfan on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:38 pm

We never truly were. It was more ideals we held up for the world to aspire to reach to while we never tried to reach them ourselves. It’s difficult for me to see American history as great when the history is built on many people groups being abused, enslaved, disenfranchised and some nearly eradicated.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:39 pm

If you use consumer confidence as the key indicator, I would put it at the Lunar landing on July 20th, 1969. Later that fall, the draft was invoked and it wasn't until Super Bowl XXXIV that it was that high again. Soon after, the NASDAQ popped and the exuberance of the dotcom boom was replaced with the reality that it was all bogus with Enron being the worst example of overvaluation.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:42 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:We never truly were. It was more ideals we held up for the world to aspire to reach to while we never tried to reach them ourselves. It’s difficult for me to see American history as great when the history is built on many people groups being abused, enslaved, disenfranchised and some nearly eradicated.


That's your perspective and I guess a major talking point on what you call great. I think those things, although "terrible", obviously went to build what we have today...which to me is greatness.

Everyone has their own perspective and I try to be open, but I can never connect with those who think less of their lives/situations because people in the past have suffered.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:43 pm

also, to be clear too: I agree with Buc2 and USC, America is still BY FAR the greatest country in the world. I've been to Europe several times (Italy, France, Germany, Spain, UK) and think the US is by far superior. And that was before it went to total **** over the past couple years. My parents are in Italy right now. They're democratic boomers. Even they agree that it's gone to ****.

South America is a ****ing hell hole. You couldn't pay me to go to India or China or Russia. Japan is ****ing weird and backwards. Africa? No thanks. The Middle East? lmfao
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:48 pm

we're still #1 bitches
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:02 pm

I'm going out on a limb and say the liberals think America has become less great( or never great) on this board. I would bet that socialistic ideologies have become more important to many of these people. In essence their views have grown further apart from where America is more so than America slipping.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Selmon Rules » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm

Is or even was America ever great?? It obviously is a relative question but I do believe you can judge each country by the number of people trying to get into it compared to the number of people trying to get out and those results do speak for themselves....

I do believe we have had some high points in my lifetime when America was truly great on the world stage though. The moon landings and the fall of the Berlin Wall come to mind. We've also had a few lows, Watergate and basically the entire decade of the 70's beginning with Watergate and ending with the Iran hostage crisis....


Great is still a relative description depending on your own personal beliefs and experiences
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:13 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:I'm going out on a limb and say the liberals think America has become less great( or never great) on this board. I would bet that socialistic ideologies have become more important to many of these people. In essence their views have grown further apart from where America is more so than America slipping.

It was a conservative who 12 short months ago won the White House on the premise that America was no longer great and he could make it great again.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:44 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:We never truly were. It was more ideals we held up for the world to aspire to reach to while we never tried to reach them ourselves. It’s difficult for me to see American history as great when the history is built on many people groups being abused, enslaved, disenfranchised and some nearly eradicated.


What country do you feel has a great history?
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:04 pm

we better get some different motherfucking opinions from some different motherfuckers in this thread. where you at caradoc, clw, nybf, ken, bibl, bootz, delt, threadkiller
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:06 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I'm going out on a limb and say the liberals think America has become less great( or never great) on this board. I would bet that socialistic ideologies have become more important to many of these people. In essence their views have grown further apart from where America is more so than America slipping.

It was a conservative who 12 short months ago won the White House on the premise that America was no longer great and he could make it great again.


That was a campaign slogan much like "Change" or "Drain the swamp". It was mostly taken as Make America Greater or for most, undo the **** Obama did. The right is far more patriotic and loves their country (even blindly) more than the left. Would you disagree with that?

I mean look at the board. We have people from the right saying America was always number 1 and still is...and the left saying it was never great to begin with, which is exactly what I was referring to.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:26 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:we better get some different motherfucking opinions from some different motherfuckers in this thread. where you at caradoc, clw, nybf, ken, bibl, bootz, delt, threadkiller


Here:

Ken- Possibly one of the few liberals who think America is great.
Bibl- America fell apart with Trump, we are close to a Holocaust....run.
Clw- Another America was never great
Delt- Hard to say. He could cite something specific as far as corporations running America or say America never was great. Maybe even point to 9/11 as the turning point or W. being the one to ruin it all.
Threadkiller- America is still great.
Bootz- Won't respond to casuals.
Caradoc- Haven't seen enough political post to say.
NYBF- State a specific...I'd guess the 70s with others.

How'd I do?
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:00 pm

Completely off on me. America is, and has been, great. The corrupt mofos in Washington that represent us, however, are not.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:23 am

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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 am

And what is your definition of "being great"?

Sounds kind of Trump-ish...
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:32 am

When the Baby Boomers were the first generation born on the fourth rung of Maslow's ladder, everything changed.

That said, America is great. Or, more precisely, being an American is great. Despite the politicians.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:47 am

I said, in response to Trump's slogan, that America is already great. And she has room to improve.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:43 pm

Perhaps we will become great again when we remember that we are not exceptional by design, but by action.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby MJW » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:07 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Perhaps we will become great again when we remember that we are not exceptional by design, but by action.


True enough, though the government needs to remember the purpose of the design is to allow the action. This is something that neither party, nor the generation that will run the country for the next 30 years, seems to understand.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:27 am

MJW wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Perhaps we will become great again when we remember that we are not exceptional by design, but by action.


True enough, though the government needs to remember the purpose of the design is to allow the action.

And intervene when necessary.
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Re: When did America stop being great?

Postby mightyleemoon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:22 pm

America seems pretty great to me. Netherlands seemed pretty great, too. Specifically Amsterdam. The few cities I've been to in England were great. (York was super great. Not sure why we needed a new one. Bets pubs ever.)

Belgium was mostly a dump, although the atomium thingy was pretty great.

(So great it made us jump...)
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Belgium also had good beer. I guess that's why there's a whole subcategory of beer described as theirs. So, maybe dump is harsh. (Plus, I visited right after a terrorist incident, so the whole place was on lock down) And, most of the island trips I've taken were dumps with nice places to stay on the beach. I've never been to a dump dump.

So, yea, great being a subjective thing, and to answer the question: I think we still fall under the great category. Even if there are plenty of not-great things about us.
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