Trump Tax Plan Is Out

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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:18 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Yes that’s correct. I feel I don’t have the mental acuity to discuss things with you.

But retards like MB, BMD, BUc2, DN, USC, RL...those nitwits I can talk to


Seeing as you are always telling me what I believe, giving my ideas cute little names and explains why I’m so wrong all the time, I would think you wouldn’t want to engage down to my stupidity anyway ... so in a way, my cowardice to talk to you is really a favor for you

Nitwit and a retard eh?



I prefer misguided.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Pirate Life » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:14 am

Zarniwoop wrote:As for the Grad school thing, as someone who spent far too long in grad schools, I don't see it changing enrollment much...I would have went to school even if I had to pay taxes on my scholarship...students are so poor at the time they are in a low tax bracket .... plus we don't know if grad schools will increase the stipends they pay to students to help alleviate some of that extra burden ...what I do hate about it though, is that it sets precedent to tax other things such as health care contributions by private companies. That part of the tax bill is certainly not something I support.


You might want to re-read what they are talking about doing to grad school tuition waivers. Adding in the waived tuition as taxable income is a considerable burden on them, because as you said they are generally poor. For a lot of these kids it's going to mean on average about a $3000 increase in their tax bill, I don't see many universities helping with that without either raising tuition rates or cutting back on grad school enrollment.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby bucfanclw » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:25 pm

Chuck Grassley: "“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies."
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:17 pm

bucfanclw wrote:Chuck Grassley: "“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies."

Clearly, Chuck Grassley has never met Newt Gingrich.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Buc2 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:22 am

bucfanclw wrote:
Buc2 wrote:The problem, clwster, is you ask questions no one can readily provide an answer to. We all have regular jobs and regular lives that preclude us from spending a lot of time studying the dizzying amount of data required to answer your questions in specific detail. We are not policy makers whose job it is to comb through the mountains of economic data and come up with a policy solution or suggestion of what programs to cut and how deeply to cut them. Therefore we speak in more generic terms. If you don't like that, well...tough ****.

Well you see, as a senior engineer I have to devise solutions and implement plans for a living. I don't get the luxury of making a baseless blanket statement and just expecting things to work. I apologize if I have a hard time accepting the easy answer when it relates to the economic success of the country that I make a living in.

As a senior engineer, I'd expect you to have answers within your chosen field.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:25 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:Chuck Grassley: "“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies."

Clearly, Chuck Grassley has never met Newt Gingrich.

My wife and I spent our entire weekend at MacGuffin's so I could check off all 3 at once.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:11 am

I'm up to my ***hole in month end journal entries and prepping for the annual workers comp audit tomorrow so you kids will have to carry on without me until this evening.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:18 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'm up to my ***hole in month end journal entries and prepping for the annual workers comp audit tomorrow so you kids will have to carry on without me until this evening.

Well you have to make some money or else you won't have anything to blow on movies, drinks, and women.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Buc2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Interesting read and one of the Right's big arguments for decreasing the corporate tax rate...to better compete against the rest of the world's big economies which have been capitalizing on rates that were much lower than the U.S. rates.

America was challenged on taxes and Trump answered the call
BY JAMES P. PINKERTON, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 01/13/18 12:00 PM EST 21 THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL

America was challenged on taxes and Trump answered the call
© Getty
A half-century ago, in 1967, a Frenchman named Jean-Jacques Servan-Schreiber published Le Défi Américain (“The American Challenge”). Surveying U.S. economic dominance, Servan-Schreiber described his book as “a call to action” — action to rejuvenate French economic power. Indeed, he called upon his country to “counterattack.”

Servan-Schreiber was writing when the U.S. accounted for a full 37 percent of the world’s economy. Moreover, 17 of the 20 largest companies in the world were American.

Servan-Schreiber’s book was hugely impactful, not only in France, but across Europe. In the words of the German-born Klaus Schwab, founder of the World Economic Forum, “'The American Challenge' was not only a game changer for European–American relations, it also provided a new and innovative conception of national competitiveness.”

Europe’s response to Servan-Schreiber’s book took several forms. One response was a heightened emphasis on “national champion” companies — big firms that could go head-to-head with American corporate titans.

A second response to the American Challenge was the expansion of what is now known as the European Union (EU). In the two decades after 1967, the European confederation doubled its nation-state membership, and in the decades since, it has more than doubled again.

To be sure, many Americans are skeptical about European ideas of “national champions” and continental consolidation. Yet for now at least, Europe boasts a GDP larger than that of the U.S., and the EU routinely uses its collective clout to help its job-creating champion companies.

So now we come to a third element in Europe’s response to the American Challenge. Here there should be less ambivalence, because the results have been so clear-cut: In the last few decades, European countries have taken up a strongly competitive approach to taxation, especially corporate taxation — and that strategy has paid off for them.

Ironically, the European country that kicked off the corporate-tax response to the American Challenge was the country closest to the U.S., the United Kingdom. Back in 1979, when Margaret Thatcher took over the prime ministership of her country, Britain was at a low ebb. Indeed, it was often called “the sick man of Europe.”

In that era, a key symptom of British sickness was too-high taxation. The corporate tax rate, for example, stood at a prohibitive 52 percent. Thatcher steadily reduced that rate. By the time she left office in 1990, it had been cut to 33 percent.

As everyone now knows, in the decades since, the British economy has continued to prosper. Not coincidentally, the U.K. corporate tax rate is now just 19 percent; over the last four decades, that’s a rate-reduction of almost two-thirds.

In the meantime, other European countries have acted even more boldly. In the early 80s, Ireland’s corporate tax rate was a debilitating 50 percent. Yet today, Ireland’s rate is down to 12.5 percent — a three-quarters reduction in the last four decades. Ireland, once an economic backwater, is now the roaring “Celtic Tiger.”

For its part, back in the 1980s, the U.S., too, was eager to be a part of the international competition. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan signed into law a substantial cut in the U.S. corporate rate, from 46 percent to 34 percent.

Yet after that, the U.S. seemingly went to sleep on the issue of corporate competitiveness, even as the rest of the world stayed wide awake. According to the Tax Foundation, in the three decades after 1986, every other member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) — the “club” of most leading economies — cut its corporate rate.

Whereas in the 1980s, most European corporate rates had been up in the 40s or even 50s, by 2017, that OECD average had gone down to 24.7 percent. In the meantime, the U.S. went in the reverse direction: In 1993, the corporate tax rate actually went up by a point, to 35 percent.

So we can see: By the 2010s, the U.S. corporate rate was ten or more points higher than that of most of its rivals. And that uncompetitive rate was one factor in the relative eclipse of the U.S. economy in the world arena.

By 2017, the U.S. share of the world economy had shrunk to less than 25 percent, and our share of the world’s largest corporations had shrunk as well, from 85 percent of the world’s top 20 companies to just 45 percent.

It was in this challenging environment that the RATE (Reforming America’s Taxes Equitably) Coalition, of which this author is a part, came into existence in 2011. Its member corporations and associations were suffering from America’s antiquated 35 percent corporate rate, and they resolved to see it lowered.

In the years that followed, RATE was proud to join with many others, across all sectors of American society, in a rising tide of pro-competitive activism. As we all know, on Dec. 22, President Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law. As he said at the time, “More products will be made in the USA ... We’re going to bring back our companies.”

The president was right: American competitiveness is back, big and strong; and the Europeans know it. For instance, the Centre for European Economic Research, based in Mannheim, Germany, recently acknowledged that, thanks to the tax bill, the U.S. now has a new edge:

“Competition between EU Member States for US investment is also going to intensify ... We can expect to see German companies increase their investment in the U.S. by around a quarter after the reform.”

Of course, America isn’t just competing with Germany, or the EU. Today, we must compete with the whole world. Yet now, finally, in 2018, five decades after Servan-Schreiber’s influential book, the U.S. has regained its preeminence in tax competition.

James P. Pinkerton served as a domestic policy aide in the White Houses of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. Since 2011, he has been the co-chair of the Reforming America's Taxes Equitably (RATE) Coalition, which advocates on behalf of corporate and business tax reform.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Zarniwoop » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:34 pm

The biggest issue I have with our corporate taxes (and individual for that matter) is in our discussions (both on the board in addition to as a country) we always talk about the nominal rate .... however no one really pays the nominal rate. We need data on effective rates

I much prefer a more simplified system where corporations all pay close to the nominal rate. We always see stories like Exxon that one quarter that made like $60B in profit and paid ZERO taxes.


If these nice low rates are here to stay, I say we scrutinize deductions now.

I much prefer low rates with no exceptions. Exceptions favor those with lots of money and lawyers (both at the corporate level and individual level), the playing ground should be equal.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Buc2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:20 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:The biggest issue I have with our corporate taxes (and individual for that matter) is in our discussions (both on the board in addition to as a country) we always talk about the nominal rate .... however no one really pays the nominal rate. We need data on effective rates

I much prefer a more simplified system where corporations all pay close to the nominal rate. We always see stories like Exxon that one quarter that made like $60B in profit and paid ZERO taxes.


If these nice low rates are here to stay, I say we scrutinize deductions now.

I much prefer low rates with no exceptions. Exceptions favor those with lots of money and lawyers (both at the corporate level and individual level), the playing ground should be equal.

I agree with you on this. Escaping taxation because of loop-holes and exceptions needs to be severely reined in on both levels.
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Re: Trump Tax Plan Is Out

Postby Pirate Life » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:59 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:The biggest issue I have with our corporate taxes (and individual for that matter) is in our discussions (both on the board in addition to as a country) we always talk about the nominal rate .... however no one really pays the nominal rate. We need data on effective rates

I much prefer a more simplified system where corporations all pay close to the nominal rate. We always see stories like Exxon that one quarter that made like $60B in profit and paid ZERO taxes.


If these nice low rates are here to stay, I say we scrutinize deductions now.

I much prefer low rates with no exceptions. Exceptions favor those with lots of money and lawyers (both at the corporate level and individual level), the playing ground should be equal.


On the personal side of things, this is more or less in place for now. They've eliminated employee business expenses on the Schedule A, big gray area deduction that people would take. Hurts some folks, yes. Loopholes abound still on the corporate end and for people who have money/knowledge on how to game the system by being incorporated to be a pass-through or put their home into a trust/have it be owned by their company.

The nominal tax rate on average for companies before the new tax law was about 22% in tax years 2007-2011 based on Dept of Treasury figures (found here: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... s-2016.pdf). In tax year 2016, it was 24%. Both rates are in line with the nominal tax rates in other countries. AT&T, one of the companies that announced bonus payouts to employees because of the new tax law, paid nominal tax rates between 7 and 9 percent in the last six years.
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