Everything Business Thread

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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:22 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Who is stopping you? Gather a coalition of the willing and have at it.

What's stopping you?

Not something I believe in. You clearly do...or is it all talk?
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:27 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:What's stopping you?

Not something I believe in. You clearly do...or is it all talk?

That figures.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:32 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Not something I believe in. You clearly do...or is it all talk?

That figures.

Figures that you are all talk?

Honestly, if people like yourself contributed their money they could get the things they want like healthcare, education, more social safety nets. You don't need the government to take everyone's money and not everyone wants to participate. Then both sides of the economic spectrum can be happy (hell, even the libertarians). Instead you just bitch about the other side and nothing gets done.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:37 pm

I like getting the most for my money and buying from companies that are the best at what they do.

Sears hasn’t been that in 25+ years.

I think the only time I bought from Sears within the last decade was about 8 years ago when I needed a basic fridge for my garage. I went to a Sears closeout store and got a decent deal on a simple fridge

It’s a shame because the Sears exclusive brands used to be fairly good ... now they are rubbish.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 pm

As for the jobs lost, I feel bad but not bad enough to waste my money with Sears to get less value. Others can if they want....all the power to them if they so choose.


In the end Americans are going to buy the same amount of stuff. Many (but not all) of the jobs lost by Sears will go to better companies.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:That figures.

Figures that you are all talk?

Honestly, if people like yourself contributed their money they could get the things they want like healthcare, education, more social safety nets. You don't need the government to take everyone's money and not everyone wants to participate. Then both sides of the economic spectrum can be happy (hell, even the libertarians). Instead you just bitch about the other side and nothing gets done.

Ha!

The view is nice up there in the ivory tower, isn't it?
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Figures that you are all talk?

Honestly, if people like yourself contributed their money they could get the things they want like healthcare, education, more social safety nets. You don't need the government to take everyone's money and not everyone wants to participate. Then both sides of the economic spectrum can be happy (hell, even the libertarians). Instead you just bitch about the other side and nothing gets done.

Ha!

The view is nice up there in the ivory tower, isn't it?


Is this the drunk version of, "I can't argue right now"?
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:12 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Ha!

The view is nice up there in the ivory tower, isn't it?


Is this the drunk version of, "I can't argue right now"?

How come I'm the guy with the problem?

You're the guy who looks at 140,000 layoffs and goes "meh".

That's a you problem.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:31 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Is this the drunk version of, "I can't argue right now"?

How come I'm the guy with the problem?

You're the guy who looks at 140,000 layoffs and goes "meh".

That's a you problem.


lol
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:51 am

There is nothing stopping you from doing something to help those Sears folks, MB. Perhaps you could start a Go Fund Me for ex-Sears workers. I might even kick in some money to it.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:10 am

Buc2 wrote:There is nothing stopping you from doing something to help those Sears folks, MB. Perhaps you could start a Go Fund Me for ex-Sears workers. I might even kick in some money to it.

Shouldn't have to. The company has $6B in assets. But that money is going to go to junk bond speculators while you and I get to pay unemployment for these people.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:56 am

If the employees invested any of their personal savings in Sears they may be able to recoup some of it through bankruptcy


If they haven’t invested their personal money to acquire those assets they have ZERO claim to them

As it should be
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:58 am

Zarniwoop wrote:If the employees invested any of their personal savings in Sears they may be able to recoup some of it through bankruptcy


If they haven’t invested their personal money to acquire those assets they have ZERO claim to them

As it should be

Like I said. The workers are the ones who get screwed.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:02 am

Joe Schmoe who has Sears stock in his 401k is going to get screwed a whole lot worse then the workers


I know you like to give away other people’s money though
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:10 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Joe Schmoe who has Sears stock in his 401k is going to get screwed a whole lot worse then the workers


I know you like to give away other people’s money though

Joe Schmoe high tailed it ages ago.

140,000 people are about to hit the unemployment line without one red cent of severance from a company sitting on $6B in cash and assets if you want to talk about spending other people's money.

You and I will be paying for unemployment benefits while junk bond investors walk away with it all.

as it should be.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:21 am

The $6B in assets is going to pay debt the company owes. And it won’t cover all of it ... suppliers will lose money as will investors. Who do you think wins?


Lol


Sears sucked as a company the last 20 years. People didn’t spend their hard earned money with them anymore because they couldn’t compete. If you want to give your money to firms that suck all the power to you maybe you can “save” them. I don’t.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:28 am

Zarniwoop wrote:The $6B in assets is going to pay debt the company owes. And it won’t cover all of it ... suppliers will lose money as will investors. Who do you think wins?


Lol


Sears sucked as a company the last 20 years. People didn’t spend their hard earned money with them anymore because they couldn’t compete. If you want to give your money to firms that suck all the power to you maybe you can “save” them. I don’t.

You don't listen.

Sears is off to the sweet bye and bye. The soon to be laid off employees should be the first to be taken care of with a severance package, but they won't be, because money. It ain't about saving the company. **** the company. It's about saving the people that were trying to keep it afloat by going to work every day.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:38 am

I listen just fine. Our bankruptcy laws, while not perfect, are very good

The first people that should be paid off will be — those with legal claims against the firm. Again, unless employees invested in Sears they have ZERO claims to assets that they didn’t buy.

Even those who have legal claims won’t get the money owed them



As I said though ... you seem to like to give away other people’s money. I don’t.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:40 am

What’s great about capitalism and our free society is that if you strongly feel that companies aren’t taking care of their employees you can

1.). Become an executive and convince the shareholders that your plan is better for them

2.). Start your own business and put your employees interest above your own


3.). Only spend your money at companies that follow your philosophy thus helping their employees


You can do either of these things without taking money from other people
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:41 am

I'd like to see severance as part of Bankruptcy law. I'd like to see pensions protected in Bankruptcy law.

I'd like to see employees receiving first right of refusal before a business is sold, merges, or is otherwise dissolved.

And the notion that workers have no claim to the capital they work with is bullshit. That claim may not get much traction in a courtroom, but they damned sure have a stake in the business.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:46 am

Luckily there arent many others that believe employees have a claim to things they didn’t buy. They have a claim to their paycheck and benefits for hours worked, nothing more.


Let me ask you ... who has a claim to your personal assets?



If employees want to make an offer to purchase Sears I’m sure they will listen.


And if you read the WSJ article most of their pensions are protected.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:48 am

Zarniwoop wrote:Luckily there arent many others that believe employees have a claim to things they didn’t buy. They have a claim to their paycheck and benefits for hours worked, nothing more.


Let me ask you ... who has a claim to your personal assets? Can I have please? It seems only fair



If employees want to make an offer to purchase Sears I’m sure they will listen.


And if you read the WSJ article most of their pensions are protected.

You don't think employees should own or co-own the businesses they work for?
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:50 am

No of course not

If they buy stock or get stock options that’s a different story.


The gal who cleans my house has no claim on it even though she helps maintain it .... though I do give her benefits :P
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:51 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:Luckily there arent many others that believe employees have a claim to things they didn’t buy. They have a claim to their paycheck and benefits for hours worked, nothing more.


Let me ask you ... who has a claim to your personal assets? Can I have please? It seems only fair



If employees want to make an offer to purchase Sears I’m sure they will listen.


And if you read the WSJ article most of their pensions are protected.

You don't think employees should own or co-own the businesses they work for?

What are you saying here?

I think it's great when companies offer stock options, but I feel like you are angling for a far more socialized version.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:54 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You don't think employees should own or co-own the businesses they work for?

What are you saying here?

I think it's great when companies offer stock options, but I feel like you are angling for a far more socialized version.

I'm arguing that the employees should receive severance from the company and that it be required by law. By working for that company they have stake in that company's success or failure.

Take care of the employees first, then the bankers can fight over the rest.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:56 am

I figured.

I'm not sure if there is something I'm more against. So, **** no for me.

Edit: I was obviously exaggerating. I can just picture NYBF salivating over a chance to attack that point. I'm obviously more against any Brenden Fraiser movie.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:58 am

uscbucsfan wrote:I figured.

I'm not sure if there is something I'm more against. So, **** no for me.



Luckily our courts still (mostly) respect private property.
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:02 am

uscbucsfan wrote:I figured.

I'm not sure if there is something I'm more against. So, **** no for me.

Against what? The company paying the employees while they look for jobs? You'd rather have the government subsidize these people so to ensure the junk bonds get repaid?
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:06 am

I can’t help but believe that in the future we will see in the United States and throughout the western world an increasing trend toward the next logical step, employee ownership. It is a path that befits a free people.

Ronald Reagan

:o
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Re: Everything Business Thread

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:08 am

And you’ll get zero argument on anyone about that provided it was employee equity (original or deferred) that purchased the assets for the company.


Have you seen anyone on this site ever say Co-ops should be barred? That ESOPs should be illegal?
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