Religion and Politics

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Religion and Politics

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:00 am

See what I did there?

the two are about as awful a combination as a milkshake and a shot of tequila. But salon has decided to take a swing at the evangelicals again...

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/10/so-much-for-christian-charity-evangelicals-blame-the-poor-for-poverty-which-makes-them-a-lot-like-other-republicans/

Reddit is in the process of circle-jerking on the issue which is fine, but I have a bit of a different take since my church doesn't seem to actively do or promote this line of thinking.

I have been to churches where politics is in the pullpit and I wouldn't suggest banning that. I would, and did, decide to go to a different church. The one I attend today is Methodist and it is what they would describe today as "Contemporary Christianity" in that the music is modern, there's lights, and the lyrics are projected above the band. The pastor preaches the gospel, but there's not a single ounce of Brimstone to be found and the messages tend to focus on self-examination and strengthening one's personal relationship with Christ. I dig it.

The aforementioned Church with the Political ranting was Baptist and much more Calvinist in its approach. I think this is the types of churches that Salon is picking on here. Walk through the door in your Sunday best, bible in hand, fake smile on your face, sing three "traditional" hymns, Preacher then gives you 45 minutes on Romans, Revelations, and some old testament stuff to show how the world's going to hell, wicked people are everywhere, cite political examples, and cap it off with through Christ we are saved. Then they go eat out.

That was my experience growing up and unless a member of the congregation had cancer or their house burned down, I don't recall much effort to reach out to the community save for a Hurricane blowing through. I know churches like this are out there, and I didn't want to just brag on my own church for ministering to addicts, military spouses with deployed loved ones and the poor. I just have to take exemption to being lumped in with the political evangelicals.

Curious if this is a thing out there. Friction between the different sects of Christianity when it comes to politics.
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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:25 am

That article is absolutely ridiculous on oh so many levels...its not even worth discussing.




Your broader point certainly is though ... as it pertains to politics within churches...I"m speaking mainly about Christianity here as it is still by far the prevalent religion in the US



First we need to distinguish between churches talking about topics that happen to be political versus being political

Many traditional topics the church talks about will certainly have echoes in the political world ... in fact, its only recently that these topics became political at all....think about gay marriage. This is something that some churches have denounced for 2000 years...long before it was political. Same with the sanctity of marriage or the family unit or abortion. To say that churches should avoid those topics is silly IMO. Some of those topics actually form tenets of belief for certain denominations.

I have zero problem with priests/ministers/deacons/rabbis/etc discussing those topics in their Sat/Sun service. Indeed our constitution protects their right to do so.

Further, I have no problem if churches connect the dots for their members as to which politicians they feel would support their religious doctrine the most. If the people who go to that church think those issues are the most important to their voting so be it. I'm a devout Catholic and there aren't many Catholic issues, or even religious issues in general, that I even consider when I vote .... to each their own.




All that being said, there are clearly people (e.g. televangelists) that take it too far....and are basically just an arm for a political party. While I find that morally bankrupt, I certainly don't see any legal issue with it. Like you said in your post MB, this could of church would not be one that I would go to.





This could be the start of a good conversation MB -- (though knowing this board, it won't be) -- good find.
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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby bucfanclw » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:23 pm

Jim Bakker is an awful human being. That's about all I have to add to this conversation, but it needed to be said.
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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:27 pm

Like every large group, Christians are horrible people when reduced to the lowest common denominator. I had a really good talk with a gay friend of mine when he asked how come I wasn't like other Christians. I asked him if there are any gay people he knew that he wouldn't want to speak for all gays, and he said of course. Same thing with Christians.

It's impossible to keep the most ignorant and outspoken people who fancy themselves Christians from making the rest of us look bad. Best we can do is to live a life that exemplifies the teachings of Christ.

However, I will say that I've found it pretty annoying to be a Democrat in the church at times. I think it's more than a small part of the church that thinks God wants Christians to be wealthy and successful and completely ignore the parts about giving generously to the poor.
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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:10 am

So since Harvey rolled through, Reddit has been savaging (probably justifiably) Joel Osteen for his reluctance to open his church to people affected by the hurricane. They leave out that Osteen has his church working on relief efforts in the city but nevertheless, they are taking shots at the guy.

Most of these kids don't remember Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker so Joel gets to be the target for now. Whatever. I don't care. BUT they got into a thing that ol' Joel likes to preach which is known as "Prosperity Gospel". The premise being that if you worship God and behave yourself, he will reward you with riches (spiritual and material) beyond measure. Critics say this is a warped ass way of looking at Christianity and manipulates followers into giving more money to the church.

In Reddit's ensuing discussion on Prosperity Gospel, the book of Job was brought up and some guy broke down the whole book in shall we say "modern tongue"

Link: https://np.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6yi7n0/white_christians_are_now_a_minority_of_the_us/dmoap3c/?context=3

Here's the book of Job (New Millenial edition)

Job is a rich guy with tons of bling. Hot wife, loads of kids, all kinds of stuff.
God and Satan are talking. Satan's like, "Job only likes you cuz you gave him an easy life. Take it away and he won't like you anymore."
God's like, "You're on. Lets **** up his life."
So they do.
Now the cliffnotes version of the story you'll hear in a shitty church is that Job remained faithful, so God gave Job all his **** back.
The ACTUAL version that's ACTUALLY in the Bible does not say that.
In the actual version God and Satan wreck Job's ****. Job is like, "man, this... really sucks. I'm not being flippant here. My kids are all dead. I am... I am not in a good place right now."
Job's friends show up and are like, "DAMN, dude! God is seriously pissed at you! What did you DO?"
And Job says, "Nothing, seriously. He just wrecked my life and killed everyone I loved for... as far as I can tell, literally no reason at all."
And Job's friends are all, "Ok, there's no way. God would only do this to you if you REALLY sinned. You'd better beg for forgiveness."
And Job says, "I've got no forgiveness to beg for. I didn't do anything. This all happened for no reason."
And his friends, "No, this definitely happened for a reason. God liked you so he gave you a good life, now God doesn't like you so he screwed your life up, obviously you sinned and he's angry with you, you need to apologize so he'll give you back the high life to which you were so sweetly accustomed."
And Job says, "No. I didn't do anything. I'm not apologizing for **** I didn't do."
And his friends are like, "Man, **** you. Not only did you sin, like, MASSIVELY, you aren't even repentant. You suck. I don't know how we didn't notice this before."
And then they bail on him because no one wants to hang out with a secret pedophile or whatever they thought Job was.
So Job sits there and is all, "Ok... God? I'm not fooling here. I'm in pain. Do you not... do you not understand that people... hurt? When you hurt them? Do you not... get what suffering is? Do you not understand what you've... what you've done here? Are you just so far away that you... don't... understand how fragile we are? Or that you can't... care?"
So God here's this and is SUPER PISSED. Because he just told Satan that Job was all pious and **** but now Job is calling him out. So he shows up and SCREAMS at Job. He goes on this big rant about all the monster's he's killed and the things he's seen and how amazing he is and HOW ****ing DARE JOB QUESTION HIM!!!11!!!one! He gets super into it, and REALLY threatening.
And Job just falls on his face and begs forgiveness because seriously what else is he going to do, he doesn't think he can take God in a fight.
So God takes some deep breaths and counts to ten and goes to his happy place for a minute and gets himself under control again.
Then he says, "Ok, ok... so... we all gotta move on from here... Tell you what. You did tell the truth about me, back there. That's worth something. You at least get me, even if you don't always RESPECT. So I'ma give you new women and kids and cows and ****. Not your old ones, Satan and I killed those. New ones though. These are gonna be better, I swear. And, what else. Oh yeah, your so called friends. They didn't tell the truth about me. So I'ma murder them all."
And Job begs God not to do that, because Job really is a stand up guy, that's been established. And God lets them live.


So... the thing Job did that was telling the truth about God was stating that God sends good and evil to us without respect to our righteousness. And the thing that Job's friends did that was telling lies about God was claiming that God sends wealth and easy living to the righteous, and misery to the unrighteous.
In other words, the moral of Job is that if you believe in the prosperity gospel God will straight up ice you unless Job asks him to chill.


That's pretty legit.
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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:42 pm

The lighter side?

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Re: Religion and Politics

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:49 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:So since Harvey rolled through, Reddit has been savaging (probably justifiably) Joel Osteen for his reluctance to open his church to people affected by the hurricane. They leave out that Osteen has his church working on relief efforts in the city but nevertheless, they are taking shots at the guy.

Most of these kids don't remember Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker so Joel gets to be the target for now. Whatever. I don't care. BUT they got into a thing that ol' Joel likes to preach which is known as "Prosperity Gospel". The premise being that if you worship God and behave yourself, he will reward you with riches (spiritual and material) beyond measure. Critics say this is a warped ass way of looking at Christianity and manipulates followers into giving more money to the church.

In Reddit's ensuing discussion on Prosperity Gospel, the book of Job was brought up and some guy broke down the whole book in shall we say "modern tongue"

Link: https://np.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6yi7n0/white_christians_are_now_a_minority_of_the_us/dmoap3c/?context=3

Here's the book of Job (New Millenial edition)

Job is a rich guy with tons of bling. Hot wife, loads of kids, all kinds of stuff.
God and Satan are talking. Satan's like, "Job only likes you cuz you gave him an easy life. Take it away and he won't like you anymore."
God's like, "You're on. Lets **** up his life."
So they do.
Now the cliffnotes version of the story you'll hear in a shitty church is that Job remained faithful, so God gave Job all his **** back.
The ACTUAL version that's ACTUALLY in the Bible does not say that.
In the actual version God and Satan wreck Job's ****. Job is like, "man, this... really sucks. I'm not being flippant here. My kids are all dead. I am... I am not in a good place right now."
Job's friends show up and are like, "DAMN, dude! God is seriously pissed at you! What did you DO?"
And Job says, "Nothing, seriously. He just wrecked my life and killed everyone I loved for... as far as I can tell, literally no reason at all."
And Job's friends are all, "Ok, there's no way. God would only do this to you if you REALLY sinned. You'd better beg for forgiveness."
And Job says, "I've got no forgiveness to beg for. I didn't do anything. This all happened for no reason."
And his friends, "No, this definitely happened for a reason. God liked you so he gave you a good life, now God doesn't like you so he screwed your life up, obviously you sinned and he's angry with you, you need to apologize so he'll give you back the high life to which you were so sweetly accustomed."
And Job says, "No. I didn't do anything. I'm not apologizing for **** I didn't do."
And his friends are like, "Man, **** you. Not only did you sin, like, MASSIVELY, you aren't even repentant. You suck. I don't know how we didn't notice this before."
And then they bail on him because no one wants to hang out with a secret pedophile or whatever they thought Job was.
So Job sits there and is all, "Ok... God? I'm not fooling here. I'm in pain. Do you not... do you not understand that people... hurt? When you hurt them? Do you not... get what suffering is? Do you not understand what you've... what you've done here? Are you just so far away that you... don't... understand how fragile we are? Or that you can't... care?"
So God here's this and is SUPER PISSED. Because he just told Satan that Job was all pious and **** but now Job is calling him out. So he shows up and SCREAMS at Job. He goes on this big rant about all the monster's he's killed and the things he's seen and how amazing he is and HOW ****ing DARE JOB QUESTION HIM!!!11!!!one! He gets super into it, and REALLY threatening.
And Job just falls on his face and begs forgiveness because seriously what else is he going to do, he doesn't think he can take God in a fight.
So God takes some deep breaths and counts to ten and goes to his happy place for a minute and gets himself under control again.
Then he says, "Ok, ok... so... we all gotta move on from here... Tell you what. You did tell the truth about me, back there. That's worth something. You at least get me, even if you don't always RESPECT. So I'ma give you new women and kids and cows and ****. Not your old ones, Satan and I killed those. New ones though. These are gonna be better, I swear. And, what else. Oh yeah, your so called friends. They didn't tell the truth about me. So I'ma murder them all."
And Job begs God not to do that, because Job really is a stand up guy, that's been established. And God lets them live.


So... the thing Job did that was telling the truth about God was stating that God sends good and evil to us without respect to our righteousness. And the thing that Job's friends did that was telling lies about God was claiming that God sends wealth and easy living to the righteous, and misery to the unrighteous.
In other words, the moral of Job is that if you believe in the prosperity gospel God will straight up ice you unless Job asks him to chill.


That's pretty legit.


LMAO!! That’s the funniest Bible translation I’ve ever read!
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