Donald Trump vs North Korea

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:47 am

anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:57 am

Babeinbucland wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Are tou upset he has continued the Obama Administration’s policies then?


Just to be clear, trump and his insane clown posse, can write and get into law just about any policy they want. They control all 4 branches of the goverment. So your whataboutism is irrelevant schtick.

THIS - is trumps policy. He owns it 100%. I don’t hear you protesting, so therefore your silence is agreement.

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Did you mean to post something else? What you posted is a directive to enforce an existing law with a zero-tolerance policy. Florida probably had a similar memo concerning the click-it or ticket which is also a zero-tolerance policy enforcing passed legislation.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:00 am

beardmcdoug wrote:anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?

Let’s not be intentionally dense. It’s a fucked up policy. It’s also not a new idea.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Brazen331 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:00 am

beardmcdoug wrote:anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?


You might notice that Fox is not talking as much about kids at the border; instead, the are talking more about Russia and Mueller and collusion than CNN. I’m sure CNN is just strictly kids at the border and Anthony Bourdain this week.

This reason is because kids/border will play better for the Left this week and the Russia/Mueller stuff will probably produce better news for the Fox brand in the days ahead.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:32 am

beardmcdoug wrote:anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?


It has always been in the hands of Congress to fix -------------- and they wont do it. No different than Obama getting his trillions by shutting down the government. Pubs caved in and he got his money, now the Dems need to cave in or pretend that the American people dont understand they are the reason things are not getting done.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:36 am

HamBone wrote:
Babeinbucland wrote:
Beside ripping children from their mother’s arms and putting them in concentration camps, what exactly is he doing that he campaigned for? Please list them. They do not need to be in alphabetical or chronological order.


Are tou upset he has continued the Obama Administration’s policies then?


No she is happy the fake news didnt care when Obama did it, so now they can go hog wild now...
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Babeinbucland » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:39 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Babeinbucland wrote:
Just to be clear, trump and his insane clown posse, can write and get into law just about any policy they want. They control all 4 branches of the goverment. So your whataboutism is irrelevant schtick.

THIS - is trumps policy. He owns it 100%. I don’t hear you protesting, so therefore your silence is agreement.

Image

Did you mean to post something else? What you posted is a directive to enforce an existing law with a zero-tolerance policy. Florida probably had a similar memo concerning the click-it or ticket which is also a zero-tolerance policy enforcing passed legislation.


Please give me a link to the existing law to which you refer
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:49 am

The family can get back together in a day or two if they choose to leave but when they decide to stay and fight due to the f-upped lawyers running all over the friggin world teaching people how to circumvent our laws it takes longer.


Thank the lawyers.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Babeinbucland » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:50 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Babeinbucland wrote:Joe Kennedy or Kamala Harris is far more likely to get the nomination

Joe is 37 years old and would be the youngest POTUS in history. Teddy Roosevelt was 42, JFK was 43.

Kamala Harris I need to read up on some more


Yes, Kennedy would be around 40 at the time of taking office. We could more infusion of youth and vigor. And certainly and unfortunately, trump has reminded us that age does not ensure wisdom or any other presidential qualities.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:52 am

Good ole Bill is talking and Pelosi and her band are going to get a look so the fake news can film Hollywood style.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 am

Babeinbucland wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Joe is 37 years old and would be the youngest POTUS in history. Teddy Roosevelt was 42, JFK was 43.

Kamala Harris I need to read up on some more


Yes, Kennedy would be around 40 at the time of taking office. We could more infusion of youth and vigor. And certainly and unfortunately, trump has reminded us that age does not ensure wisdom or any other presidential qualities.

I get it, but we need to keep in mind that the only thing he has going for him nationally is his name and heritage and I worry about "Legacy politics" after the Hillary fiasco.

He needs to build his own brand, not ride on the family name.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am

Babeinbucland wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Did you mean to post something else? What you posted is a directive to enforce an existing law with a zero-tolerance policy. Florida probably had a similar memo concerning the click-it or ticket which is also a zero-tolerance policy enforcing passed legislation.


Please give me a link to the existing law to which you refer

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

It’s in the memo...
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:08 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Babeinbucland wrote:
Please give me a link to the existing law to which you refer

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

It’s in the memo...

That law was last amended in 1996.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Rocker » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:10 am

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:14 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

It’s in the memo...

That law was last amended in 1996.


What relevance does that have?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:16 am

Ken Carson wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?

Let’s not be intentionally dense. It’s a fucked up policy. It’s also not a new idea.


Then lets change the law.

Nobody is cheering for families to be separated, but we are a sovereign country with a right to border security and laws that govern how people legally immigrate into this country.

If we catch people crossing our borders in violation of our immigration laws what are we to do? We can't just turn them around and say 'sorry, park is closed. The moose out front should've told ya'. Nor can we just turn a blind to people willfully breaking our laws (again, we are sovereign country and thus have the right to defend our borders). So we must take them into custody/detainment so they can be processed.

Now what happens once they are in custody should be debated and discussed. Are we ok with letting the minor children to stay in America? Can detained parents provide adequate care for young children? Should we let families stay providing they have a small child with them? Would that policy incentivize those looking to illegally immigrate to bring a small child along for that dangerous journey b/c it increases their chances of accomplishing their goal? Again we're talking specifically about people that are already ignoring our sovereignty and violating our laws.

These are tough questions. But we should be mature and honest in our answers instead of politicizing it and/or speaking from just emotion. It's not as easy as just letting everyone stay b/c it makes you feel better.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:18 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

It’s in the memo...

That law was last amended in 1996.

ok?

Are you saying any law not amended in the last 20 years can be ignored? Not sure the relevancy on that post.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:20 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:That law was last amended in 1996.

ok?

Are you saying any law not amended in the last 20 years can be ignored? Not sure the relevancy on that post.

I thought the argument here was that this was a law from the Obama years. Is that not the case?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:24 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:ok?

Are you saying any law not amended in the last 20 years can be ignored? Not sure the relevancy on that post.

I thought the argument here was that this was a law from the Obama years. Is that not the case?


Well, since you responded to me... that's clearly not my point. I said it's not new. Any reading between the lines on 'not new' is wholly on you.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:26 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:ok?

Are you saying any law not amended in the last 20 years can be ignored? Not sure the relevancy on that post.

I thought the argument here was that this was a law from the Obama years. Is that not the case?

Gotcha, I think someone was making the point to Babe that this isn't a recent law b/c she called it "Trump's policy" iirc. I don't really care which administration passed the law. If it's the law it should be enforced, we don't get to and should not expect LE or border security to individually determine what laws to enforce. That is dangerous game imo.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:28 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Let’s not be intentionally dense. It’s a fucked up policy. It’s also not a new idea.


Then lets change the law.

Nobody is cheering for families to be separated, but we are a sovereign country with a right to border security and laws that govern how people legally immigrate into this country.

If we catch people crossing our borders in violation of our immigration laws what are we to do? We can't just turn them around and say 'sorry, park is closed. The moose out front should've told ya'. Nor can we just turn a blind to people willfully breaking our laws (again, we are sovereign country and thus have the right to defend our borders). So we must take them into custody/detainment so they can be processed.

Now what happens once they are in custody should be debated and discussed. Are we ok with letting the minor children to stay in America? Can detained parents provide adequate care for young children? Should we let families stay providing they have a small child with them? Would that policy incentivize those looking to illegally immigrate to bring a small child along for that dangerous journey b/c it increases their chances of accomplishing their goal? Again we're talking specifically about people that are already ignoring our sovereignty and violating our laws.

These are tough questions. But we should be mature and honest in our answers instead of politicizing it and/or speaking from just emotion. It's not as easy as just letting everyone stay b/c it makes you feel better.


Personally, I think we need to suspend separating families until all of these questions are satisfactorily answered.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Deuce » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:30 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:ok?

Are you saying any law not amended in the last 20 years can be ignored? Not sure the relevancy on that post.

I thought the argument here was that this was a law from the Obama years. Is that not the case?


I think the argument was more that "these laws were on the books and enforced by Obama" and not "Obama created these laws himself". But it was worded in a way as to compare Trump and Obama directly.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:58 am

Ken Carson wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Then lets change the law.

Nobody is cheering for families to be separated, but we are a sovereign country with a right to border security and laws that govern how people legally immigrate into this country.

If we catch people crossing our borders in violation of our immigration laws what are we to do? We can't just turn them around and say 'sorry, park is closed. The moose out front should've told ya'. Nor can we just turn a blind to people willfully breaking our laws (again, we are sovereign country and thus have the right to defend our borders). So we must take them into custody/detainment so they can be processed.

Now what happens once they are in custody should be debated and discussed. Are we ok with letting the minor children to stay in America? Can detained parents provide adequate care for young children? Should we let families stay providing they have a small child with them? Would that policy incentivize those looking to illegally immigrate to bring a small child along for that dangerous journey b/c it increases their chances of accomplishing their goal? Again we're talking specifically about people that are already ignoring our sovereignty and violating our laws.

These are tough questions. But we should be mature and honest in our answers instead of politicizing it and/or speaking from just emotion. It's not as easy as just letting everyone stay b/c it makes you feel better.


Personally, I think we need to suspend separating families until all of these questions are satisfactorily answered.


I don't think they can be satisfactorily answered where the Dems in Congress would agree.

We can't just turn them around and we're not just going to release them into the interior of our country (thus promoting illegal immigration and rewarding people who willfully ignore our laws).

So while they are detained I support keeping the families together at whatever facility. But what then? That is the real question that needs to be answered here. Bringing a child with you as attempt to illegally enter a country shouldn't be a free pass for entry. So is it ok to just deport the parents? According to most Dems it isn't and families must be kept together. So is deporting the entire family the right answer?

Do elected Democrats have a solution that doesn't involve ignoring our laws or some type of open borders policy?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:09 am

Here it is....

Separating parents from children was rare under the Obama administration and in the early part of the Trump administration, usually reserved only for cases where the safety of a child was in question. Nearly 1,800 immigrant families were separated over 17 months prior to February, according to a Reuters report.


So the Trump cult is correct that this did happen under the Obama Administration. Unfortunately, NBC did not link to the Reuters report so we have to take their word for it as far as the numbers go.

The article I got that bit of data from has the headline that 1,995 children have been separated from their parents in the last 6 weeks when "zero tolerance" kicked in in April.

Attorney General Sessions last Thursday
"If you cross the southwest border unlawfully, then the Department of Homeland Security will arrest you and the Department of Justice will prosecute you. That is what the law calls for — and that is what we are going to do," Sessions said.


separate article

Trump might be referring to a 2008 law passed unanimously by Congress and signed into law by President George W. Bush, but that legislation is focused on children who illegally cross the border without a guardian, known as unaccompanied minors. That law calls for releasing children into the "least restrictive setting" — often to family or a government-run shelter — while their cases slowly wind through immigration court.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:17 am

Ken Carson wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:anyone else find it odd how all of the sudden, almost in unison, every single media outlet has pivoted to this kids-at-the-border thing?

Was there some new legislation passed in the past month or something that I missed?

Let’s not be intentionally dense. It’s a fucked up policy. It’s also not a new idea.


I'm not being dense. There are tons of fucked up policies. All of the sudden, this week, there is a shitstorm developing around this one. I'm asking why - did I miss some major event that spurred this off? For example, with the gun control policy, it was school shootings that were the catalyst for it becoming a nationwide dinner table topic. This past week, all of the sudden, seemingly from nowhere, it is kids getting separated at the border... You, as well as I, know that nothing the media does or talks about is by random chance...
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:24 am

So what is the solution outside of not illegally crossing the border with a child?

If the parents can stay with their children instead of going to jail, where will they go? Currently children can go to foster homes, military bases, family members in the states, or centers created for this. Should parents be able to access the country because they enter with kids?

I don't think it's a fucked up policy in an evil sense. I don't know what else to do other than immediately turn them away. I'm open to hearing other options.

edit: Sorry, for babe to follow....Should we let the parents go to the "concentration camps" with the parents?

Just had to bring that Trump/Hitler comparison back into the fold...
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:30 am

Ask yourself who is paying all these shat rag lawyers.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:38 am

Stupid Americans -------------------- you cant stop us from coming into this country illegally!
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:44 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Let’s not be intentionally dense. It’s a fucked up policy. It’s also not a new idea.


I'm not being dense. There are tons of fucked up policies. All of the sudden, this week, there is a shitstorm developing around this one. I'm asking why - did I miss some major event that spurred this off? For example, with the gun control policy, it was school shootings that were the catalyst for it becoming a nationwide dinner table topic. This past week, all of the sudden, seemingly from nowhere, it is kids getting separated at the border... You, as well as I, know that nothing the media does or talks about is by random chance...

Short answer: Liberal soup du jour?

Long answer:
It seems to be SOP for the media to latch onto anything that they can to try and shine Trump in a bad light. When they find something they think they can use, even if it means spinning the truth, they'll beat that drum loud and long to try and work the people into a frothing, riotous mob, replete with rope to hang him. After this current furor dies down, they'll go looking for something else. So desperate they are to see that this man doesn't win a 2nd term. It's become truly pathetic to watch.

This same thing has been happening for years but went unreported or underreported because, well, the media liked the guy sitting in the White House at the time. He was a nice guy you know. So anything he did, he did out of simple necessity and because there was just no other choice. If anything did happen to get reported, instead of saying the children were ripped away from their parents, they'd say they were gently removed from their parents only after agonizing debate and with great regret. Feel my eyes rolling over here yet?

It sucks that these kids' parents were willing to risk their children's very lives to make the dangerous trek to our border with Mexico and then to try and illegally enter the country knowing it was illegal and that they were risking losing their children if they did. If American parents put their children through such risks, they would lose their children as well due to child endangerment laws. Happens every day in fact.

So, while it's sad that these people's lives sucked where they came from and were willing to risk their children's lives to leave, that doesn't give them the right for automatic entry into America. Under the current circumstances, I'm not sure what else our law enforcement can do until the adults have been worked through the legal system.

Here's my recommendation. Illegal parents...stop breaking our laws. Instead, rise up against your governments. Fight for your human rights and to change your own laws. Either that or seek legal entry to another country.

Just as I don't want America to be the World's police, I also don't want America to be the World's bed & breakfast.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:09 pm

Looks like the House will vote on legislation that addresses families being separated after they are detained for illegally crossing the border.

It's better than nothing, but just kicks the can down the road a small bit. Even if detained families stay together in a detention facility, what happens once the parents are processed? Separate the family by (rightfully) sending the parents back? Let the family into the country illegally while hundreds of thousands wait to immigrate the legal way? Or keep the family together by sending returning them to their country of origin/residence together?
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