Donald Trump vs North Korea

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:51 pm

The discussion seems stalled by the multitudes of people who can't accept the basic premise (the title of the thread).

So you agree with the IC assessment that Russia had a campaign to influence our elections to favor Trump?

I'm just trying to find out why you agree with the IC this time, but refuse to do so re: Trump/Russia?

IMO, I agree with both this assessment and the Russian report. Seems to me that both are credible reports.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:06 pm

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:07 pm

Corsair wrote:The discussion seems stalled by the multitudes of people who can't accept the basic premise (the title of the thread).

Maybe b/c of the multitudes of people who conflate Russian interference with Trump/Russia collusion (like you just did in this post).

Corsair wrote:So you agree with the IC assessment that Russia had a campaign to influence our elections to favor Trump?

I'm pretty sure I've posted my thoughts on Russia and the IC. I've read their report and commented. I do accept that the Kremlin wanted to interfere in our election and made an effort to do so and that effort was to hurt Hillary and thus help her opponent. But I don't buy the narrative from the IC report that Fake news on Russia Today and internet trolls swayed the election and was the reason Hillary lost.

Corsair wrote:I'm just trying to find out why you agree with the IC this time, but refuse to do so re: Trump/Russia?

Your lack of reading comprehension or laziness in understanding my position is not my issue.

Corsair wrote:IMO, I agree with both this assessment and the Russian report. Seems to me that both are credible reports.

Cool, lets stay on topic in your thread here shall we?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby NavyBuc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:19 pm

I have no inside info, but I do know chatter is increasing and ship activity is definitely higher than I've ever seen in my 10 years in the Navy. It's a shame that past Presidents have let this get to this point. They basically turned a blind eye and did absolutely nothing while NKO expanded its nuclear program. This has the potential to be the biggest crisis and war this world has ever seen if cooler heads do not prevail. This is turning into the Cold War all over again, except Trump and Kim Jong Il are not Krushchev and Kennedy.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Selmon Rules » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:47 pm

Maybe I'm wrong but I see NK as China's creation and they are really the only ones that can talk the little nut off the ledge. They are the only real trading partner and if they will enforce the sanctions and refuse trade and support, they will become the little lunatics new public enemy #1 without all of the constraints required to deal with him.

We sure as hell don't need to be going to war as NK has been trying to get us to do something stupid for decades and while ignoring the problem hasn't worked, catering to his wishes now would be a bit late....
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:20 pm

Reuters: North Korea seriously considering strike on Guam: Reports, citing state media
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:31 pm

Corsair wrote:WASHINGTON (AP) — Trump: If North Korea escalates nuclear threat, 'they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen'.


Corsair wrote:Reuters: North Korea seriously considering strike on Guam: Reports, citing state media


This is the uncertainty you sow when the President of the US has zero credibility or consistency.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Rocker » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Corsair wrote:
Corsair wrote:WASHINGTON (AP) — Trump: If North Korea escalates nuclear threat, 'they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen'.


Corsair wrote:Reuters: North Korea seriously considering strike on Guam: Reports, citing state media


This is the uncertainty you sow when the unhinged dictator of a communist regime doesn't play by the rules.


FIFY
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:00 pm

I'd say both are correct.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby NavyBuc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:01 pm

Corsair wrote:
Corsair wrote:WASHINGTON (AP) — Trump: If North Korea escalates nuclear threat, 'they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen'.


Corsair wrote:Reuters: North Korea seriously considering strike on Guam: Reports, citing state media


This is the uncertainty you sow when the President of the US has zero credibility or consistency.


If you hate the President so much, leave the friggin' country.

Good Lord. I'm no Trump fan by any means, but I'm not going to sit on a message board and whine and cry all day about him. I've got better things to do with my life. All these people that said they'd leave the country if he'd get elected....get the hell out. It'd make my drive to work a lot less stressful.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:02 pm

NavyBuc wrote:
Corsair wrote:


This is the uncertainty you sow when the President of the US has zero credibility or consistency.


If you hate the President so much, leave the friggin' country.



LMAO
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:45 pm

You know what would reduce the threat of nuclear war with North Korea? A fully-staffed State Department that actually cared about diplomacy.

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"...if you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition ultimately." -Gen. Mattis.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Rocker » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:24 pm

North Korea's been developing their nuclear program long before Trump got into office, buddy. This one aint his fault.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Selmon Rules » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:27 pm

Rocker wrote:North Korea's been developing their nuclear program long before Trump got into office, buddy. This one aint his fault.

Not his fault but remember when Obama had that line in the sand?? Trump just did basically the same thing and then doubled down on it by daring the little knothead to cross it. Should have let diplomacy force China's hand to reign him in with the sanctions. They are NK umbilical cord. Without them NK dies on the vine
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:30 pm

Rocker wrote:North Korea's been developing their nuclear program long before Trump got into office, buddy. This one aint his fault.

I agree. It's a bi-partisan fuckup from Clinton, to W, to Obama, and now to Trump.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make it any less true that we have a depleted and nerfed State Department right now. And that hinders our ability to act diplomatically.

And that IS Trump's fault.

Also, his violent rhetoric (that sounds a bit like KJU himself) is pouring gasoline on the fire. If people here want to solve this diplomatically they should understand that threatening NK with "fire and fury the likes of which the world has ever seen" isn't a sound strategy of de-escalation. It took about 3 hours for a reply to attack guam to surface after the statement.

But I get it, you think Trump is handling this fantastically, yes?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby WalterGronkite » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:56 pm

Corsair wrote:You know what would reduce the threat of nuclear war with North Korea? A fully-staffed State Department that actually cared about diplomacy.

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"...if you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition ultimately." -Gen. Mattis.


"Congress deems appropriate"
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:02 pm

So congress told Trump and Tillerson to leave almost 200 diplomatic posts unfilled?

Has congress approved Trump's proposed budget that would usher in a 31% reduction in funding?

Our current State department is currently running understaffed and without leadership. Most in Congress (from both sides of the aisle) disagree with this approach.

Do you even think before you jump to sniff Trump's ass, or is it an unconscious reaction?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby WalterGronkite » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:09 pm

Corsair wrote:So congress told Trump and Tillerson to leave almost 200 diplomatic posts unfilled?

Has congress approved Trump's proposed budget that would usher in a 31% reduction in funding?

Our current State department is currently running understaffed and without leadership. Most in Congress (from both sides of the aisle) disagree with this approach.

Do you even think before you jump to sniff Trump's ass, or is it an unconscious reaction?


Do you just repeat what Vanity Fair says and say the problem we have with North Korea is because we don't have enough diplomats.

Maybe we should just replace our army with diplomats and that would solve the problem
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Brazen331 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:13 pm

China could stop the NK nuclear program tomorrow. All they have to do is stop shipping oil into the recluse nation. NK cannot function, cannot exist as a family-run dictatorship without China. But NK serves China's interests so they will never help us. So it's time for the US to look out for its intersts. Do you think China wants nuclear weapons in SK, Japan and perhaps Australia?

This would not be China's interests but it is in ours'. It's nice to focus on our real enemy, the real threat to the future of the USA for a change rather than the fake, manufactured threat that is Russia. Russia has an economy about as big as Canada's while China has a 2.5 million man standing army.

Make no mistake, China wants us out of the Pacific; they want complete domination over their sphere of influence, and once they have it, they can work on surpassing the USA as the most dominant super power on the planet. A world with China as the most powerful nation will be a very different world indeed.

We obviously cannot go to war, but we can strengthen our allies, and check China by keeping it surrounded. So if China will not help us we need to help ourselves, look out for our own interests without any regard whatsoever as to whether it hurts China or not. They are certainly not in the business of helping us.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:14 pm

WalterGronkite wrote:
Maybe we should just replace our army with diplomats and that would solve the problem


Man, you are stupid.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby WalterGronkite » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:16 pm

Corsair wrote:
WalterGronkite wrote:
Maybe we should just replace our army with diplomats and that would solve the problem


Man, you are stupid.


You want to make a wager and say NK doesn't do ****
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:19 pm

Cool politics discussion, bros.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby deltbucs » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:04 pm

NavyBuc wrote:If you hate the President so much, leave the friggin' country.

Your posts remind me of a South Park character.

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Rocker » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:05 pm

Corsair wrote:
But I get it, you think Trump is handling this fantastically, yes?


What would make you think that?

It's a shame that you chose to end an otherwise good post with **** like this.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:54 pm

Brazen331 wrote:China could stop the NK nuclear program tomorrow. All they have to do is stop shipping oil into the recluse nation. NK cannot function, cannot exist as a family-run dictatorship without China. But NK serves China's interests so they will never help us. So it's time for the US to look out for its intersts. Do you think China wants nuclear weapons in SK, Japan and perhaps Australia?

This would not be China's interests but it is in ours'. It's nice to focus on our real enemy, the real threat to the future of the USA for a change rather than the fake, manufactured threat that is Russia. Russia has an economy about as big as Canada's while China has a 2.5 million man standing army.

Make no mistake, China wants us out of the Pacific; they want complete domination over their sphere of influence, and once they have it, they can work on surpassing the USA as the most dominant super power on the planet. A world with China as the most powerful nation will be a very different world indeed.

We obviously cannot go to war, but we can strengthen our allies, and check China by keeping it surrounded. So if China will not help us we need to help ourselves, look out for our own interests without any regard whatsoever as to whether it hurts China or not. They are certainly not in the business of helping us.

Pump the brakes a bit. You got a lot right here, but it still needs some cleanup. Some thoughts for you:

Cutting off oil is the moment Japan decided to hit Pearl Harbor.

Russia is actively doing **** in Crimea and Syria. China to my knowledge has no military campaigns going on right now.

Yes, China wants to dominate the Pacific and they want us out of there. It's not going to happen. Economically or militarily.

Remember the real estate bubble in 08? When it popped and started the great recession, GDP losses were about equal to the entire GDP of China. We shrank a China.

We in the US look at the trade deficit with China and their 2.5 million man army and assume that they are going to overtake the US. Ain't happening any time soon.

The focus needs to be on NK. Personally, I would prefer we don't resume war with NK. A fuckton of civilians would die and create a humanitarian crisis that would make Aleppo look like romper room.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Alpha » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:22 pm

Nothing new under the sun.

This is the same **** NK has been perpetrating for DECADES.

And this isn't Obama's fault or Trump's fault or W's fault or Clinton's fault.

This is what it's always been with these ass-hats.

There are 2 main differences:

1) N. Korea MAY actually be in a position to DIRECTLY threaten the US. I doubt it but can that chance be taken?

2) Trump is unhinged...and MAY be more of a nut-job than Kim. He MIGHT be the one to Out-Kim, Kim. The poo-poo platter has fallen SQUARELY on Trump's plate. Sucks for him but this is what he signed up for.

I feel for the S. Koreans and the Japs. They're gonna be the folks to bear the brunt of the fallout. I doubt NK has the capability to accurately target anything outside of their immediate area...but one has to assume they can.

Just glad I live in FLA. I'm pretty sure I'm safe...
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Rocker » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:34 pm

Alpha wrote:Nothing new under the sun.

This is the same **** NK has been perpetrating for DECADES.

And this isn't Obama's fault or Trump's fault or W's fault or Clinton's fault.

This is what it's always been with these ass-hats.

There are 2 main differences:

1) N. Korea MAY actually be in a position to DIRECTLY threaten the US. I doubt it but can that chance be taken?

2) Trump is unhinged...and MAY be more of a nut-job than Kim. He MIGHT be the one to Out-Kim, Kim. The poo-poo platter has fallen SQUARELY on Trump's plate. Sucks for him but this is what he signed up for.

I feel for the S. Koreans and the Japs. They're gonna be the folks to bear the brunt of the fallout. I doubt NK has the capability to accurately target anything outside of their immediate area...but one has to assume they can.

Just glad I live in FLA. I'm pretty sure I'm safe...


Solid all around.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby WalterGronkite » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:08 am

You usually don't telegraph who you are going to attack, especially with the cabalities that Guam has.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:31 am

The countries in red currently have no serving US ambassador:

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Brazen331 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:57 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Brazen331 wrote:China could stop the NK nuclear program tomorrow. All they have to do is stop shipping oil into the recluse nation. NK cannot function, cannot exist as a family-run dictatorship without China. But NK serves China's interests so they will never help us. So it's time for the US to look out for its intersts. Do you think China wants nuclear weapons in SK, Japan and perhaps Australia?

This would not be China's interests but it is in ours'. It's nice to focus on our real enemy, the real threat to the future of the USA for a change rather than the fake, manufactured threat that is Russia. Russia has an economy about as big as Canada's while China has a 2.5 million man standing army.

Make no mistake, China wants us out of the Pacific; they want complete domination over their sphere of influence, and once they have it, they can work on surpassing the USA as the most dominant super power on the planet. A world with China as the most powerful nation will be a very different world indeed.

We obviously cannot go to war, but we can strengthen our allies, and check China by keeping it surrounded. So if China will not help us we need to help ourselves, look out for our own interests without any regard whatsoever as to whether it hurts China or not. They are certainly not in the business of helping us.

Pump the brakes a bit. You got a lot right here, but it still needs some cleanup. Some thoughts for you:

Cutting off oil is the moment Japan decided to hit Pearl Harbor.

Russia is actively doing **** in Crimea and Syria. China to my knowledge has no military campaigns going on right now.

Yes, China wants to dominate the Pacific and they want us out of there. It's not going to happen. Economically or militarily.

Remember the real estate bubble in 08? When it popped and started the great recession, GDP losses were about equal to the entire GDP of China. We shrank a China.

We in the US look at the trade deficit with China and their 2.5 million man army and assume that they are going to overtake the US. Ain't happening any time soon.

The focus needs to be on NK. Personally, I would prefer we don't resume war with NK. A fuckton of civilians would die and create a humanitarian crisis that would make Aleppo look like romper room.


I pretty much agree with everything you said here. I just wish we would threaten to place nukes in SK or actually do it because it could very well work.

If NK actually has the capacity to miniaturize a nuclear warhead and place it on a missile they did not get there on their own: China had to have helped them do it.

So if China is fine with NK pointing nuclear missiles at us then they should be fine with having some in SK pointed back at them.

I do think they would rather NK not have them than to have SK and Japan have them.
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