Donald Trump vs North Korea

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:26 pm

I guess they give medals away for missile tests, it's not like any of those guys have seen combat.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Corsair wrote:I guess they give medals away for missile tests, it's not like any of those guys have seen combat.


I have no idea whether you are talking about the US giving out medals or NK or if this is just metaphorical or what, but the US gives medals for everything and have done so since the 90s. Again, I didn't find any article referencing this, but being former military I know 100% that a lot of people received medals and rightfully so. People receive medals for everything in the military...you get a medal when you go to a new base.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:56 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Corsair wrote:I guess they give medals away for missile tests, it's not like any of those guys have seen combat.


I have no idea whether you are talking about the US giving out medals or NK or if this is just metaphorical or what, but the US gives medals for everything and have done so since the 90s. Again, I didn't find any article referencing this, but being former military I know 100% that a lot of people received medals and rightfully so. People receive medals for everything in the military...you get a medal when you go to a new base.


Pretty sure he was just joking about the NK officers with all those medals (some have them on their friggin legs). Quite an accomplishment considering the Korean War ended over 60 years ago and that was the last conflict NK was in.

What medal do you get for in the US Military for going to a new base? I know the command you're leaving will normally give you an end of tour (EOT) for your years of service there providing you were not a complete shitbag. Depending on your rank, command, duty station and contribution that award can vary in significance.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
I have no idea whether you are talking about the US giving out medals or NK or if this is just metaphorical or what, but the US gives medals for everything and have done so since the 90s. Again, I didn't find any article referencing this, but being former military I know 100% that a lot of people received medals and rightfully so. People receive medals for everything in the military...you get a medal when you go to a new base.


Pretty sure he was just joking about the NK officers with all those medals (some have them on their friggin legs). Quite an accomplishment considering the Korean War ended over 60 years ago and that was the last conflict NK was in.

What medal do you get for in the US Military for going to a new base? I know the command you're leaving will normally give you an end of tour (EOT) for your years of service there providing you were not a complete shitbag. Depending on your rank, command, duty station and contribution that award can vary in significance.


You normally get either an achievement or accommodation or even higher depending on your rank when going to a new base, much like an EOT medal. I've seen people in both the AF and Army that have never seen combat with excessive medals. Basically if you do your job, you'll get something...if you had an important job or did your job really well, you get more. In the early 2000s they were giving out Bronze Stars to everyone for anything.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:29 pm

North Korea has launched another ballistic missile. This is yet another violation of international sanctions.

North Korea fired a ballistic missile Friday night that may have landed in Japan's exclusive economic zone. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told reporters he called an emergency meeting of his National Security Council, the Associated Press reported. Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said North Korea launched the missile at 11:42 p.m. local time Friday, Japan's national public broadcaster NHK reported.

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Navy Capt. Jeff Davis confirmed that a launch of a ballistic missile from North Korea had been detected. “We are assessing and will have more information soon,” he said. Japanese government sources told NHK that authorities issued warnings to vessels in the zone shortly after detecting the launch.


I think we should let them keep testing until they figure it out and have a missile that will be able to deliver their nuclear payload.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm wondering what's going to happen when they launch one, try to self destruct it over water and it doesn't blow itself up, then falls on downtown Tokyo or something....
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:29 pm

Via WaPo (but widely reported)

North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment


Let's assume for the sake of debate that the IC assessment is correct here (b/c the IC never gets an assessment wrong, amirite?)

Recent (additional) sanctions on North Korea's ballistic missile program (in addition to previous violations) were unanimously passed by the UN Security Council 15-0.

So what now? Wait for North Korea to violate these sanctions just like they've ignored all the previous ones?

I for one know our citizens and allies are sleeping better knowing that we haven't taken action and now Kim is on the verge of having a nuclear weapon he can deliver on a target. I'm sure he won't share that technology with anyone that opposes the United States or our allies.

Let's give peace a chance!! North Korea seems like a reasonable regime.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby mightyleemoon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:So what now?


That is a great question. Feel like giving it a go? I mean, I believe you and I are generally on the same page here. At least, given what's on Page 1 of this thread. But, I'd be interested in hearing what you think we should do, specifically. So far it seems like you're only take is to be sarcastic towards those who lean towards sanctions.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:55 pm

What are we talking about?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:22 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Via WaPo (but widely reported)

North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment


Let's assume for the sake of debate that the IC assessment is correct here (b/c the IC never gets an assessment wrong, amirite?)

Recent (additional) sanctions on North Korea's ballistic missile program (in addition to previous violations) were unanimously passed by the UN Security Council 15-0.

So what now? Wait for North Korea to violate these sanctions just like they've ignored all the previous ones?

I for one know our citizens and allies are sleeping better knowing that we haven't taken action and now Kim is on the verge of having a nuclear weapon he can deliver on a target. I'm sure he won't share that technology with anyone that opposes the United States or our allies.

Let's give peace a chance!! North Korea seems like a reasonable regime.

Not sure we can or should do anything other than sanctions at this point. If/until their wacko uses/tries to use a nuke on another country, what are we supposed to do? They are a soverign nation. Sure, we can do as much as possible to keep them from attaining such tech for as long as possible, and we have. Now the jig is up. They got em and can use em. If that's the case, then maybe it's time to just drop the sanctions. I mean, if they have what they need, what good are sactions at this point? After all, we don't have sactions against other nuclear countries that are hostile towards us.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:23 pm

mightyleemoon wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:So what now?


That is a great question. Feel like giving it a go? I mean, I believe you and I are generally on the same page here. At least, given what's on Page 1 of this thread. But, I'd be interested in hearing what you think we should do, specifically. So far it seems like you're only take is to be sarcastic towards those who lean towards sanctions.


I'm sarcastic only b/c KN doesn't abide by sanctions. But I stand by post on page 1 from back in April, and the only thing different now is that additional sanctions have been placed on the NK by the UN, which is what I advocated for in that post.

But looking ahead we have to look at the possibility/likelihood of NK not abiding by these sanctions just as they've ignored previous ones. So when I ask what now, it's with the assumption that NK will violate these new sanctions and continue to develop their weapons programs. If they comply with the sanctions than I don't advocate starting a military conflict

Military action is what happens when diplomacy fails (or perhaps diplomacy by more extreme measures). So at what point (assuming NK violates these new additional UN sanctions) is military action prudent? Imo we've already past that point/line, but with these new sanctions we've put the ball back on NK's court to see how they respond.

As far as specific military action, the goal would be to take out NK weapons facilities while also ensuring there is no collateral damage on our allies in South Korea, Japan, or Gyna.

But it would be great if Kim would comply with the sanctions laid out by the UN.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:25 pm

Corsair wrote:What are we talking about?

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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:27 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
mightyleemoon wrote:
That is a great question. Feel like giving it a go? I mean, I believe you and I are generally on the same page here. At least, given what's on Page 1 of this thread. But, I'd be interested in hearing what you think we should do, specifically. So far it seems like you're only take is to be sarcastic towards those who lean towards sanctions.


I'm sarcastic only b/c KN doesn't abide by sanctions. But I stand by post on page 1 from back in April, and the only thing different now is that additional sanctions have been placed on the NK by the UN, which is what I advocated for in that post.

But looking ahead we have to look at the possibility/likelihood of NK not abiding by these sanctions just as they've ignored previous ones. So when I ask what now, it's with the assumption that NK will violate these new sanctions and continue to develop their weapons programs. If they comply with the sanctions than I don't advocate starting a military conflict

Military action is what happens when diplomacy fails (or perhaps diplomacy by more extreme measures). So at what point (assuming NK violates these new additional UN sanctions) is military action prudent? Imo we've already past that point/line, but with these new sanctions we've put the ball back on NK's court to see how they respond.

As far as specific military action, the goal would be to take out NK weapons facilities while also ensuring there is no collateral damage on our allies in South Korea, Japan, or Gyna.

But it would be great if Kim would comply with the sanctions laid out by the UN.


**** military action! If/until they attack us or an ally, why should we use military action? They are a sovereign nuclear nation. Why the **** would we want to go poking that bear? You crazy?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:32 pm

Buc2 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Via WaPo (but widely reported)



Let's assume for the sake of debate that the IC assessment is correct here (b/c the IC never gets an assessment wrong, amirite?)

Recent (additional) sanctions on North Korea's ballistic missile program (in addition to previous violations) were unanimously passed by the UN Security Council 15-0.

So what now? Wait for North Korea to violate these sanctions just like they've ignored all the previous ones?

I for one know our citizens and allies are sleeping better knowing that we haven't taken action and now Kim is on the verge of having a nuclear weapon he can deliver on a target. I'm sure he won't share that technology with anyone that opposes the United States or our allies.

Let's give peace a chance!! North Korea seems like a reasonable regime.

Not sure we can or should do anything other than sanctions at this point. If/until their wacko uses/tries to use a nuke on another country, what are we supposed to do? They are a soverign nation. Sure, we can do as much as possible to keep them from attaining such tech for as long as possible, and we have. Now the jig is up. They got em and can use em. If that's the case, then maybe it's time to just drop the sanctions. I mean, if they have what they need, what good are sactions at this point? After all, we don't have sactions against other nuclear countries that are hostile towards us.


The UN just unanimously voted to place additional sanctions on NK.

They have nuclear warheads, but have yet to develop the ICBM technology to deploy them. However they are getting closer according to our IC. The new sanctions would demand they halt development of their ICBM program.

What other countries that have nuclear capability are hostile towards us other than North Korea?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:34 pm

WASHINGTON (AP) — Trump: If North Korea escalates nuclear threat, 'they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen'.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:34 pm

So I guess we are back to believing USIC assessments?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:42 pm

Buc2 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I'm sarcastic only b/c KN doesn't abide by sanctions. But I stand by post on page 1 from back in April, and the only thing different now is that additional sanctions have been placed on the NK by the UN, which is what I advocated for in that post.

But looking ahead we have to look at the possibility/likelihood of NK not abiding by these sanctions just as they've ignored previous ones. So when I ask what now, it's with the assumption that NK will violate these new sanctions and continue to develop their weapons programs. If they comply with the sanctions than I don't advocate starting a military conflict

Military action is what happens when diplomacy fails (or perhaps diplomacy by more extreme measures). So at what point (assuming NK violates these new additional UN sanctions) is military action prudent? Imo we've already past that point/line, but with these new sanctions we've put the ball back on NK's court to see how they respond.

As far as specific military action, the goal would be to take out NK weapons facilities while also ensuring there is no collateral damage on our allies in South Korea, Japan, or Gyna.

But it would be great if Kim would comply with the sanctions laid out by the UN.


**** military action! If/until they attack us or an ally, why should we use military action? They are a sovereign nuclear nation. Why the **** would we want to go poking that bear? You crazy?


Waiting to be attacked by a country that is openly hostile towards our country is not a strategy I agree with. The international community has repeatedly warned NK over the years via diplomatic measures/sanctions, so military action is a logical next step at some point. The question is when the point occurs.

What does it say about the UN if countries can just ignore sanctions over and over again? Would you be ok with NK sharing their technology with Iran? What is to stop them?

With these new sanctions we've taken military action off the table and allowed NK to respond. But I don't see how letting them develop a nuclear ICBM is the best interest of the United States or out allied nations in the UN.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:43 pm

Starting another war with a country half a world away isn't an option I care about.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:45 pm

Buc2 wrote:Starting another war with a country half a world away isn't an option I care about.

Interesting statement. So what you are saying is that "you don't care" if we go to another war, or are you against it?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Corsair wrote:So I guess we are back to believing USIC assessments?

I'm just going off what I read in WaPo.

Should I not believe the IC assessment this time?

Is WaPo fake news here?

Or should we assume this is accurate?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:55 pm

"This is the same people who told us Iraq had WMD"

Narratives keep shifting around here. I'm just trying to catch up.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Buc2 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:59 pm

Corsair wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Starting another war with a country half a world away isn't an option I care about.

Interesting statement. So what you are saying is that "you don't care" if we go to another war, or are you against it?

War is something I'd prefer we not get into.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:03 pm

Corsair wrote:"This is the same people who told us Iraq had WMD"

Narratives keep shifting around here. I'm just trying to catch up.

I didn't know **** Cheney works for the IC these days. I must have missed that WaPo article.

So are you saying the IC is wrong here? Or is it WaPo?

If it's neither than we can assume it's correct and get back on topic.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:05 pm

Dread, like a week ago you called out Corsair for citing WaPo and questioned the IC on Russia because they were wrong about Iraq.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:11 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Corsair wrote:Interesting statement. So what you are saying is that "you don't care" if we go to another war, or are you against it?

War is something I'd prefer we not get into.

No ****, I'd prefer we don't either. But what I prefer even less is waiting around with our thumb in our butt while North Korea continues to ignore the diplomatic sanctions from the UN and develops a long range ICBM they can attach one of their warheads to, or worse yet sharing that technology with Iran.

Do you think North Korea (or Iran) won't use these weapons in a first strike against South Korea or Israel at some point? And that we should sit back until that happens?

Is the world less safe or more safe with countries like NK and/or Iran have nuclear capability?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:17 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Dread, like a week ago you called out Corsair for citing WaPo and questioned the IC on Russia because they were wrong about Iraq.


Thanks bud. I'm entirely open to the possibility the IC is wrong here about NK (hence my sarcasm in my initial post today in this thread). But as I said in that post let's assume the reporting is accurate so we can discuss the topic.

Since Corsair responded I was curious what his thoughts were since the IC and WaPo are his favorite sources that are apparently beyond reproach.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Dread, like a week ago you called out Corsair for citing WaPo and questioned the IC on Russia because they were wrong about Iraq.


Thanks bud. I'm entirely open to the possibility the IC is wrong here about NK (hence my sarcasm in my initial post today in this thread). But as I said in that post let's assume the reporting is accurate so we can discuss the topic.

Since Corsair responded I was curious what his thoughts were since the IC and WaPo are his favorite sources that are apparently beyond reproach.

Sarcasm didn't translate for me.

I have opinions on your thoughts on NK, but I'll wait until I get to a computer
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:29 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Thanks bud. I'm entirely open to the possibility the IC is wrong here about NK (hence my sarcasm in my initial post today in this thread). But as I said in that post let's assume the reporting is accurate so we can discuss the topic.

Since Corsair responded I was curious what his thoughts were since the IC and WaPo are his favorite sources that are apparently beyond reproach.

Sarcasm didn't translate for me.

I have opinions on your thoughts on NK, but I'll wait until I get to a computer


No worries. Fwiw, Anytime I post "amirite" it's meant as sarcasm.

To your point the IC has intentionally (or perhaps ignorantly) provided false assessments in order to advance the war machine or their own agenda in the past so it wouldn't be a surprise to see that happening agian.

But I would rather not get wrapped up in that discussion again here since I'm more interested to see what peoples thought are on NK in light of the most recent sanctions and the reporting (assuming it's factual) that NK has reached a "key threshold" in their development of a nuclear capable ICBM.
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby Corsair » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:35 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Dread, like a week ago you called out Corsair for citing WaPo and questioned the IC on Russia because they were wrong about Iraq.


But as I said in that post let's assume the reporting is accurate so we can discuss the topic.

Cool. I'll just assume we are doing that for the Russia story as well from now on.

We should have some consistency, amirite?
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Re: Donald Trump vs North Korea

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:42 pm

Corsair wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:I'm entirely open to the possibility the IC is wrong here about NK (hence my sarcasm in my initial post today in this thread). But as I said in that post let's assume the reporting is accurate so we can discuss the topic.

Cool. I'll just assume we are doing that for the Russia story as well from now on.

We should have some consistency, amirite?


Still deflecting I see.

Your Russian thread is on page 71, so I believe the topic is getting plenty of discussion, no?

Why are you derailing your own thread here? You've made it clear the IC and WaPo are to be trusted. So if that is the case than lets discuss NK. If either the WaPo or IC are not to be trusted let me know and we'll discuss that in the Russia thread.
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