CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:55 am

So when is Rosenstein going to let us see this IG report? DOJ hasn’t had enough tine to leak the bad news out piecemeal and redact the rest of it yet?

I remember MB telling all of us in this forum that Comey was a ‘boy scout.’ It’s long past due for Comey to be exposed as the POS he is.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:03 am

Caught one!

James A. Wolfe
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:18 am

mdb1958 wrote:Caught one!

James A. Wolfe

Whatcha got there, mdb?
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:30 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Caught one!

James A. Wolfe

Whatcha got there, mdb?



All the dominoes will never reach the table.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby bucfanclw » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:34 am

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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:36 am

Qui Pro Domina Justitia Sequitur
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:49 am

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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:28 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Caught one!

James A. Wolfe

Whatcha got there, mdb?


Pretty funny story. Almost like some House of Cards ****. This James Wolfe guy worked as the SSCI Director and was banging some young NYT reporter 30 years younger than he was.

Wolfe lied to the FBI about knowing her (and others) and was leaking information to her (and others).

As just some funny irony, this NYT reporter has old tweet stating she would like to be Zoe Barnes (the character from House of Cards).

Wolfe has been indicted.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:30 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Whatcha got there, mdb?


Pretty funny story. Almost like some House of Cards ****. This James Wolfe guy worked as the SSCI Director and was banging some young NYT reporter 30 years younger than he was.

Wolfe lied to the FBI about knowing her (and others) and was leaking information to her (and others).

As just some funny irony, this NYT reporter has old tweet stating she would like to be Zoe Barnes (the character from House of Cards).

Wolfe has been indicted.

uh....okay.

I never watched HoC so maybe I don't see what has mdb so giddy.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:59 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Pretty funny story. Almost like some House of Cards ****. This James Wolfe guy worked as the SSCI Director and was banging some young NYT reporter 30 years younger than he was.

Wolfe lied to the FBI about knowing her (and others) and was leaking information to her (and others).

As just some funny irony, this NYT reporter has old tweet stating she would like to be Zoe Barnes (the character from House of Cards).

Wolfe has been indicted.

uh....okay.

I never watched HoC so maybe I don't see what has mdb so giddy.


Not sure on that, but it was more humorous to me than anything. I don't think any story is a big deal anymore and thus I stopped giving a **** about this investigation along with the response by the IG or DOJ to it. You had good advice a while back 'Wait for Mueller' and that is my approach. Every "bombshell" story that is released is out of the news cycle within days. Until something is definitive I just find it exhausting to follow closely regardless of whether the story is about Russian, obstruction, leaking, the nefarious 'deep state', etc.

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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Babeinbucland » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:26 pm

And just for clarity- he was indicted for lying to the FBI - this charge is the one that is the demise of so many
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:33 pm

hey! good to see you!
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:54 pm

Babeinbucland wrote:And just for clarity- he was indicted for lying to the FBI - this charge is the one that is the demise of so many not named Hillary


FIFY :D

Good to see you, hope you are well.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby HamBone » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 pm

DreadNaught wrote:You had good advice a while back 'Wait for Mueller' and that is my approach.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby The Outsider » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:35 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:uh....okay.

I never watched HoC so maybe I don't see what has mdb so giddy.


Not sure on that, but it was more humorous to me than anything. I don't think any story is a big deal anymore and thus I stopped giving a **** about this investigation along with the response by the IG or DOJ to it. You had good advice a while back 'Wait for Mueller' and that is my approach. Every "bombshell" story that is released is out of the news cycle within days. Until something is definitive I just find it exhausting to follow closely regardless of whether the story is about Russian, obstruction, leaking, the nefarious 'deep state', etc.

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It took longer than this for the investigation in to Watergate to come to it's conclusion, in fact he even won re-election while the investigation was ongoing.. We're spoiled by the internet and the 24/hr news cycle, but investigations still take a ton of time. Maybe more-so now considering how technology can be used to dilute things.
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Postby RedLeader » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:33 pm

HamBone wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:You had good advice a while back 'Wait for Mueller' and that is my approach.


MB himself has most certainly not followed his own advice since posting that. lol..
Last edited by RedLeader on Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:39 pm

RedLeader wrote:
HamBone wrote:


MB himself has most certainly not followed his own device since posting that. lol..


I've long ago moved on, I'm waiting for the criminal referrals for the real story.
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Re:

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:38 pm

RedLeader wrote:
HamBone wrote:


MB himself has most certainly not followed his own advice since posting that. lol..

Yeah, most certainly...
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Babeinbucland » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:01 am

For those of you who desperately want trump to be innocent, irrespective of all the evidence, there’s nothing anyone can post to ever convince you. You are fully all in and fully committed to turning a blind eye to the Socio path harming the country. Sadly we will all pay for your decision to embrace denial.

There’s actually lots of evidence of Trump-Russia collusion
The untenability of the “no collusion” talking point.

By Matthew Yglesias@mattyglesiasmatt@vox.com Jun 11, 2018, 8:00am EDT

Javier Zarrracina/Vox:
“In all of this, in any of this, there’s been no evidence that there’s been any collusion between the Trump campaign and President Trump and Russia,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said Thursday at his weekly press conference. “Let’s just make that really clear. There’s no evidence of collusion. This is about Russia and what they did and making sure they don’t do it again.”

From Ryan’s perspective, it would be convenient if it were true that Robert Mueller’s investigation had turned up no evidence of collusion, but it simply isn’t.

Republicans from Donald Trump on down have made “no collusion” a mantra. The term itself is ill-defined in this context; you won’t find in the US code. But roughly speaking, the question is whether the campaign got involved with Russian agents who committed computer crimes to help Trump win the 2016 presidential election.

The verdict on this is unclear. But there is certainly plenty of evidence pointing toward collusion; what you would call “probable cause” in a legal context, or what a journalist might simply consider reason to continue investigating the story. And the investigating thus far, both by special counsel Mueller and by journalists working on the story, has been fruitful. The efforts have continued to turn up contacts between Trumpworld and Putinland, cover-ups, and dishonesty.

Even as recently as Friday afternoon, we got new indictments charging Trump’s former campaign chair and his former GRU operative business partner with witness tampering and obstruction of justice.

It’s important, obviously, not to prejudge a case. It turns out that Saddam Hussein was acting like a man who was covering up a secret nuclear weapons arsenal because he didn’t want the world to know how weak his defenses really were.

By the same token, it’s certainly possible that the various Trump-Russia contacts never amounted to anything and that they’ve been consistently covered up for some reason other than an effort to hide collusion. But both the contacts that have been revealed so far and the deception used to deny their existence are certainly evidence of collusion — evidence that should be (and is being) pursued by the special counsel’s office and that should not be dismissed by the press or by elected officials.

The circumstantial case for collusion
It’s worth backing up to recall what we all saw on camera before anyone knew anything about an FBI investigation, before FBI Director James Comey was fired in an effort to halt the investigation, and before Mueller and his team revealed anything:

Two separate hacks of Democratic Party emails — one purloining a trove of internal Democratic National Committee emails and one that stole a ton of correspondence from John Podesta’s personal Gmail account — were perpetrated over the course of 2016, by what are now believed to have been agents operating on behalf of the Russian government.
These emails were not immediately released, and they were not released by the hackers who obtained them. Instead, the emails were disseminated to the public by using Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as an intermediary. Their releases also seemed strategically timed — the DNC emails disrupted efforts to create a show of unity between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders at the beginning of the Democratic National Convention, while the Podesta emails were released right after the infamous Access Hollywood tape.
Trump and his campaign, at the time, believed these emails were a big deal and cited them frequently. Trump built substantial portions of his campaign messaging around narratives — typically half-true at best — contained in the emails, and made no bones about welcoming the hacking.
“WikiLeaks, I love WikiLeaks,” he said on several occasions on the campaign trail, and he also explicitly called on the Russian government to hack and release Hillary Clinton’s emails.
Trump also spent the 2016 campaign running an overtly pro-Russian campaign message, praising Vladimir Putin’s leadership, defending him from allegations of murdering his political opponents, and calling for a realignment of US strategy in Syria and Ukraine.
I would not necessarily call any of this “evidence” of collusion, but it’s certainly grounds for suspicion. It gave the impression that Trump was on some level coordinating his campaign messaging with the Russian hackers, and that either he was taking a pro-Putin line in exchange for Russian help or he sincerely believed in the pro-Putin line and therefore saw nothing wrong with accepting Russian assistance.


That said, Trump was asked about this possibility explicitly during the campaign. And during the campaign and the transition, both he and his team issued at least 20 denials of any contact between his camp and the Russians. And where evidence really enters the picture is that they were lying.

There was extensive outreach between Trump and Russia
In reality, as exhaustively documented by the Moscow Project, there were extensive communications between people in Trump’s orbit and Russian government figures or others who had, or purported to have, close ties to the Putin regime.

Some of this communication — including Michael Cohen’s January 2016 email to Dmitry Peskov and Ivanka Trump’s October 2015 exchange with Dmitry Klokov — was ostensibly about efforts to construct a Trump-branded building in Moscow. Some of it, including the various escapades of George Papadopoulos and Carter Page, involved relatively peripheral players in Trumpworld, who didn’t have strong pre-campaign ties to Trump or play a post-campaign role in the administration.

But some of it was quite high-level and explicitly about the campaign. Donald Trump Jr., for example, took a meeting with the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank while attending the National Rifle Association’s annual convention in Kentucky in May 2016. The meeting was arranged by a US conservative activist named Paul Erickson, who got in touch with senior Trump campaign aide Rick Dearborn to set it up, explicitly as a step toward creating back-channel communications between Russia and the campaign.

And, of course, Trump Jr., along with Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, attended the infamous Trump Tower meeting whose purpose was explicitly described as “part of Russia and its support for Mr Trump” and was said to involve incriminating information about Hillary Clinton.

That Trumpworld was clearly open to both political collusion and financial dealmaking with the Russian government doesn’t demonstrate that either actually occurred. But it’s unquestionably evidence in favor of the possibility. The fact that all of this was lied about and swept under the rug is further evidence (though, again, not proof) that there was, in fact, actual Russia-related wrongdoing that is being covered up. And it’s striking that we continue to learn new things about contacts between Trump and Russia — the Ivanka story is new this week — rather than there having been a moment at which everyone got religion and decided to come clean.

And then there’s Paul Manafort.

The Manafort-Deripaska nexus is very suspicious
Paul Manafort had worked for years in Republican Party politics in the 1970s and ’80s, but by the second decade of the 21st century, he was primarily working in Ukraine. Then in March 2016, Donald Trump hired him to run his presidential campaign and smooth over badly frayed relations with the GOP establishment.

Two weeks after he boarded the Trump train, Manafort emailed Konstantin Kilimnik, who’d been his key lieutenant in Kiev for years:

“I assume you have shown our friends my media coverage, right?” Manafort wrote.

“Absolutely,” Kilimnik responded a few hours later from Kiev. “Every article.”

“How do we use to get whole,” Manafort asks. “Has OVD operation seen?”
OVD, in this context, is Oleg Deripaska, a wealthy Russian oligarch to whom Manafort was deeply in debt. Critically, despite the debts, Manafort agreed to go work for Trump for free. But he wanted to know how he could use his unpaid work for Trump to “get whole” with Deripaska.

Manafort, in other words, clearly saw his work for Trump as directly linked to his work for pro-Russian forces. Manafort is also currently preparing to stand trial for a broad array of financial crimes related to this work. It’s conventional for both the Trump camp and Manafort’s legal team to say that the charges are unrelated to the 2016 campaign, but that is merely assuming the conclusion. If Manafort did in fact use his US activities to “get whole” with his former client, then the two issues are clearly quite linked.

The truth in this matter is, as with much of the rest of the story, unclear. But, again, there is clearly evidence here.

The collusion in plain sight
Last but by no means least, it’s worth recalling that there’s something fundamentally odd about the entire framing of the collusion question.

The way a political candidate’s relationship to a hostile foreign power would normally be framed is that the discovery of covert collusion would be used as evidence that the candidate harbored a secret desire to repay the foreign power. But in Trump’s case, there was absolutely no secret! Trump quite openly ran on a pro-Russia platform, adopting Russian views on the conflicts in Syria and Ukraine, defending Putin’s character, and vowing to break up the NATO alliance.

It’s of course not illegal for a candidate for office to espouse pro-Russian foreign policy views. But to an extent, there was plenty of “collusion” in plain view throughout 2016 — crimes were committed and Trump openly praised them; he offered pro-Russia policy in exchange for Russian assistance, received the assistance that he sought, and has labored ever since to avoid investigating or punishing Russia’s crimes.

And here, ultimately, is where Paul Ryan’s argument completely falls apart. The speaker says “there’s no evidence of collusion” but also isn’t willing to go full Trump, denounce the investigation as a fraud, and call for its end. Instead, he says, “this is about Russia and what they did and making sure they don’t do it again.” But Trump has always been clear that he doesn’t think Russia did anything wrong, doesn’t want the full details to become known, doesn’t want anyone punished, and has no particular interest in making sure they don’t do it again. And that, itself, is perhaps the most powerful evidence of collusion.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:05 am

:lol:
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Commander Bubbles » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 am

Anyone have the TLDR version?

I did like her start though. Talking about how Trumpsters will never be swayed, regardless of what’s posted, then goes on to type out a ridiculously long post. Don’t ever change BIBL :lol:
Last edited by Commander Bubbles on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:22 am

Wharf Rat wrote:Anyone have the TLDR version?

Trump is guilty no matter what you think.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Commander Bubbles » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:26 am

Buc2 wrote:
Wharf Rat wrote:Anyone have the TLDR version?

Trump is guilty no matter what you think.


Lol thanks :lol:
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mightyleemoon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:30 am

Wharf Rat wrote:Anyone have the TLDR version?


If I were to guess...

Everything you say about Hillary she says about Trump.

At least, that's how I'm going to assume that post reads.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby deltbucs » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:41 am

The return of BIBL and MLM within a couple of hours?
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:41 am

Things that make you go, hmm.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mightyleemoon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:50 am

deltbucs wrote:The return of BIBL and MLM within a couple of hours?


Who was gone longer?
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Buc2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:57 am

Not sure, but it wasn't long enough. Try again.
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby Zarniwoop » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:30 pm

They say all tings come in three — some get Corsair
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Re: CIA and FBI: Russia Interfered in US Election

Postby mightyleemoon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:53 pm

Buc2 wrote:Not sure, but it wasn't long enough. Try again.


Are you one of those political team players that I offended at some point in time? You people are neat.
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