Ideology

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Re: Ideology

Postby deltbucs » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:17 pm

HamBone wrote:
Corsair wrote:
Quick question, and anyone here can participate:

Do you support the president's change in LGBTQ Trans-rights by letting the states decide?

Do you also support the president's return to federal cannabis law enforcement bypassing several state legalization laws?

Yes. And marijuana should be legalized...

How do you decide which civil liberties the states should decide and which the federal government should rule over? That seems ass backwards to me.
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Re: Ideology

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:19 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
HamBone wrote:
Ok...then the Administration and I disagree on the subject of marijuana.

But, I would agree that they shouldn't encourage drug use...hell, they shouldn't encourage the consumption of alcohol.

And if the statement is all they do about it then it's fine.

The federal government shouldn't meddle with the states on this.


Agreed
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Re: Ideology

Postby Buc2 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:49 pm

Corsair wrote:
Buc2 wrote:So states rights is great so long as they're supporting a position you favor. If you don't favor a position, then you'd be all for federal government intervention. Got it.


Quick question, and anyone here can participate:

Do you support the president's change in LGBTQ Trans-rights by letting the states decide? Yes

Do you also support the president's return to federal cannabis law enforcement bypassing several state legalization laws? No
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Re: Ideology

Postby HamBone » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:26 pm

deltbucs wrote:
HamBone wrote:Yes. And marijuana should be legalized...

How do you decide which civil liberties the states should decide and which the federal government should rule over? That seems ass backwards to me.


Which civil liberties are you referring to?
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Re: Ideology

Postby Wharf Rat » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:The federal government shouldn't meddle with the states on this.


I agree.

I'd be interested where they got their data that led them to believe that marijuana use led to the opioid epidemic. I can't speak for anywhere else in this country, but I know that crooked doctors, who ran "pill mills", are to blame for the opioid epidemic in Florida. Now that the DEA is cracking down on those doctors, we are seeing an increase of hospital admissions related to heroin addiction. It seems like straight bullshit to blame opiate addiction on marijuana.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Corsair » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:33 pm

The opioid addiction is because patients who have been given prescriptions for opioid painkillers must replace that opioid with another once their prescription runs out or insurance no longer pays for it.

States with medical marijuana actually have less instances of opioid addiction and health care costs go down.

Big Pharma loses money in states with medical marijuana.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:42 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:SD bores me. Let's move on.

Populism

It fueled Bernie and it fueled Trump. Both parties are in the midst of some serious infighting as the populists from Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party have begun taking over and in the case of the GOP, have taken over.

I'll let one of you guys talk about the GOP, I'll talk about the DNC and what I see as going on over there.

Bernie's "Political Revolution" that he called for..(systematic takeover from city councils, to state legislatures, and up by progressives)..is beginning. The rank and file progressives want a complete overhaul of DNC leadership. Pelosi, The Clintons, The Obamas, all gone. They cite the loss of over 1,000 legislative seats since 2008 and a flawed strategy that leads from the top down and uses shame to influence policy. They want "identity politics" out the door as a campaign strategy and a greater focus on economic justice rather than social justice. The logic being you cannot have the latter without the former. I haven't seen any calls for a centrally planned economy, they want a market economy that works for them, not billionaires.

Gun control is out the door. The people don't want it. Gun crime is a symptom of a larger disease and that disease is poverty. There has been talk of reorienting the Federal Reserve to shift from "Unemployment" to "Poverty" as the basis for monetary policy. How that would work, I don't know.

They want money out of politics. They believe the money that finances campaigns gets between congress and the people that elected them. How they plan to do this, I don't know. But I assume getting rid of the citizens united ruling would be a big step in that direction.

As you can imagine, this irks the **** out of the establishment and they are already trying to stop Keith Ellison (Bernie's guy) from taking over the DNC. As they continue to caterwaul over the loss in Novermber, their ire is getting thrown on the "bernie bros" for costing Hillary the electoral college. As far as they are concerned, She won the popular vote and that in and of itself serves as proof that she was not a "flawed" candidate. I wanted to reach through my satellite radio and slap Mark Thompson in the head over that one last night.

So the DNC is in a battle, but its a battle between the rank and file and the very small remaining contingent of politicos still in Washington. The RNC fight is slam full of guys holding elected office. Are they going to get in line behind Trump and his populists or stay off his coattails expecting him to fail?

Bumping for relevance.

This movement took a huge hit yesterday.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:54 pm

Bump for Brazen if he wants to talk.
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Re: Ideology

Postby HamBone » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:07 pm

deltbucs wrote:
HamBone wrote:Yes. And marijuana should be legalized...

How do you decide which civil liberties the states should decide and which the federal government should rule over? That seems ass backwards to me.


Prolly the same way you do...
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Re: Ideology

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:10 pm

Hammy!

Where you been? You run out of crayons?
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Re: Ideology

Postby HamBone » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:49 pm

For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:59 pm

HamBone wrote:For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.

What kinds of ideas? Anarcho-fascism? Authoritarian libertarian?
Militant veganism?
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Re: Ideology

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:03 pm

HamBone wrote:For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.

I think this is an inaccurate representation of this community. We have far right to far left and everything in between. We have highly intelligent posters and incredibly dumb posters, posters who are open to change (with in their spectrum) and ones are staunch in their ideologies. If you don't feel represented, maybe that's because you are unique. That makes you more valuable here.

Everyone goes through frustrating peaks and valleys in a place where things are debated often. It can feel tedious to yet enter another battle, only to have the shallower puddles of water drop in to add their insults and unwarranted opinions. Sometimes you just need a break. I hope you find that and return.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Brazen331 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:13 pm

HamBone wrote:For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.


So that’s where you’ve been....self-medicating....
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Re: Ideology

Postby Kress » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:55 am

I don't like ideas.
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Re: Ideology

Postby deltbucs » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:51 am

HamBone wrote:For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.

And ironically this was your previous post....

HamBone wrote:
deltbucs wrote:How do you decide which civil liberties the states should decide and which the federal government should rule over? That seems ass backwards to me.


Prolly the same way you do...
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Re: Ideology

Postby Buc2 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:20 am

deltbucs wrote:
HamBone wrote:For the most partI got tired of the bullshit back and forth that gets nowhere...when I expect an intellectual conversation about ideology I text my brother-in-law that works for WeedMaps. Dude is super smart and open to different ideas...something this board lost a long time ago.

And ironically this was your previous post....

HamBone wrote:
Prolly the same way you do...

Yeah... That was a bit pot/kettle-ish.
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Re: Ideology

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 pm

thanks for bumping this thread for whatever reason MB, it's something I think about frequently. don't really know where this post is ultimately going to go, but its friday and its something to talk about -

I'm not sure if any of ya'll caught the story on NPR's afternoon program, where they were talking about how Germany's manufacturing sector is still going so strong - accounting for (I think they said) ~25% of their GDP still - whereas, in the US, it's about half of that, somewhere around 12% of our GDP. And they were asking the question of "why?". Why has Germany maintained such a powerful industrial/manufacturing sector, even today, so far removed from the post-WWII boon, when the other main manufacturing super power, the US, has seen such a decline over the past 40 years?

The expert's response? Ideology.

He didn't say the word ideology, but what he said was (paraphrasing) "while the much-family-owned German manufacturing sector maintained their loyalty to the german people and product quality above all else, the US saw their companies take a hard shift towards outsourcing labor and moved their factories overseas". This isn't news to anybody, we all know that happened, but what was interesting about him saying that, was that that concept was that this dude looked heavily into this question, and THE nugget all factors distilled down to was: "there was an ideological shift in the US, where the intangible concept of doing right by your neighbor and your country was abandoned in favor of self-appeasement and catering to investors above all", and it was encouraged under the (classic republican) ideals of unrestricted capitalism/free trade/economic globalism.

It was an ideological acceptance of the concept of giving jobs to people who live in other countries, instead of your neighbors. And this country, specifically millenials, are paying the heavy price for that ideological compromise. It was like once the original sin was committed, everyone else felt absolved from committing such a treasonous economic betrayal of one's country.

It's why I bemoan the fact that populism/nationalism/patriotism (let's save the splitting of hairs of these concepts for now :) ) is seen as such a "dangerous" ideal these days. For all the negative effects of adopting those ideals that are imagined, we have direct evidence of the damage caused by the abandonment of such ideals.

My take away from that NPR news story was that, much to my scientists' side's chagrin, it is ideology, something that is wholly unquantifiable, which only exists in the imaginations of men, is the single most powerful coefficient in driving the American Prosperity equation - and is why I come to detest the individuality of this current American culture


TL;DR
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Re: Ideology

Postby Buc2 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm

Interestingly, it's the Republicans, or more correct, conservatives that want to bring those jobs back to the U.S. That was a big part of Trump's appeal during the months before the election.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:13 pm

Interesting post BMD

Thanks for sharing


I agree with most of it, but would add the same thing has happened to consumers ... we shopped ourselves out of high paying manufacturing jobs as well by focusing our purchases on low cost imports sold at Walmart, people used to take pride in “buying American”. We just don’t anymore. In most industries (not quite all) there are still American made goods, they are just more expensive than the Asian stuff so they aren’t popular.
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Re: Ideology

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:16 pm

Buc2 wrote:Interestingly, it's the Republicans, or more correct, conservatives that want to bring those jobs back to the U.S. That was a big part of Trump's appeal during the months before the election.


I know! Then I'm listening to NPR again I think 2 days ago, and they've got this "homeless" (party-wise) life-long republican on there who's writing an anti-trump book or something, and he's talking about how he thinks the republican party is in crisis and he's hoping desperately the party can separate themselves from Trump and return to classical republican ideals of "X, X, and free, open, global trade"

I'm like are you #@#%ing kidding me!? lol it was a failed experiment dude, how could you possibly advocate for that!? Bastards... what a con...
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideology

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:19 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Interesting post BMD

Thanks for sharing


I agree with most of it, but would add the same thing has happened to consumers ... we shopped ourselves out of high paying manufacturing jobs as well by focusing our purchases on low cost imports sold at Walmart, people used to take pride in “buying American”. We just don’t anymore. In most industries (not quite all) there are still American made goods, they are just more expensive than the Asian stuff so they aren’t popular.


right. and now with the economic situation that's been created, they've got us right where they want us - broke and making the obvious cost-benefit analysis, reinforcing that outsourced paradigm
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Re: Ideology

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:19 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:Interesting post BMD

Thanks for sharing


I agree with most of it, but would add the same thing has happened to consumers ... we shopped ourselves out of high paying manufacturing jobs as well by focusing our purchases on low cost imports sold at Walmart, people used to take pride in “buying American”. We just don’t anymore. In most industries (not quite all) there are still American made goods, they are just more expensive than the Asian stuff so they aren’t popular.

Absolutely true of consumer goods. We still like to manufacture Capital goods (semi-trucks, tractors, airplanes, military equipment, etc.)
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Re: Ideology

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:20 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Interestingly, it's the Republicans, or more correct, conservatives that want to bring those jobs back to the U.S. That was a big part of Trump's appeal during the months before the election.


I know! Then I'm listening to NPR again I think 2 days ago, and they've got this "homeless" (party-wise) life-long republican on there who's writing an anti-trump book or something, and he's talking about how he thinks the republican party is in crisis and he's hoping desperately the party can separate themselves from Trump and return to classical republican ideals of "X, X, and free, open, global trade"

I'm like are you #@#%ing kidding me!? lol it was a failed experiment dude, how could you possibly advocate for that!? Go down in your own sinking boat though...




We actually haven’t tried free trade yet. All our agreements suck ass. How can any trade with China be free when they openly manipulate their currency. The EU charges 2x as much tariff on US cars as we charge on theirs
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Re: Ideology

Postby beardmcdoug » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:41 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
I know! Then I'm listening to NPR again I think 2 days ago, and they've got this "homeless" (party-wise) life-long republican on there who's writing an anti-trump book or something, and he's talking about how he thinks the republican party is in crisis and he's hoping desperately the party can separate themselves from Trump and return to classical republican ideals of "X, X, and free, open, global trade"

I'm like are you #@#%ing kidding me!? lol it was a failed experiment dude, how could you possibly advocate for that!? Go down in your own sinking boat though...




We actually haven’t tried free trade yet. All our agreements suck ass. How can any trade with China be free when they openly manipulate their currency. The EU charges 2x as much tariff on US cars as we charge on theirs


well if that's the result of our earnest attempt - then it's safe to say it ain't going to work out well for us lol

too bad we gutted our leverage while figuring that out
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Re: Ideology

Postby Zarniwoop » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:57 pm

I agree...it probably won't work -- particularly with countries where the government subsidizes businesses (e.g. China)

We need to find countries with the same economic principles we have (or as close to ours as possible) and try to trade with them...and seeing as the entire world is left of us, that is a hard thing

just think about health insurance -- US companies generally pay 2/3 to 3/4 of their employees health insurance premiums -- that has to be figured into the price -- as such we won't be as competitive with countries that have single payer when it comes to the prices of goods. reducing our corporate income tax to basically the average of the rest of the industrialized world was a good start at least.



again, there is no magic pill here. If we want more jobs to come back, we have to be willing to put our money where our mouths are and be willing to pay higher prices
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Re: Ideology

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:41 pm

So I have a guilty pleasure of reading comment sections on FB or controversial stories. I have no idea was the story was about, but a bunch of hardcore Vegans were pushing the discussion about how animals are causing more global warming than anything else and how we aren't omnivores, we are herbivores, etc., but this one particularly persistent girl responded to a dumb comment about, "I'm sure the plant cries before you kill it." She went on a tirade about how all animals are sentient (let's ignore that debate for a second) and how we don't have the right to take any living life. Another Vegan chimed in with something like, "We aren't god, we have no right to take lives". I went to both of their FB profiles, because again, guilty habit. They are both SUPER pro choice, which leads me to my question.

What is their justification of saving all living animals, but they are fine with abortion(seemingly by one's post at all stages)? Is it their perceived sentience that they are assigning to the cow and not the baby? Is it viability?

Now I assume this will turn into an abortion vs no abortion debate, but my main question is 1) what do you believe they use to justify this surface level hypocrisy (or if we have a resident Vegan, replace they with you)?

Also, what are things in your political views that conflict with your main ideologies? This is always good to know about yourself if you plan to enter an open ended in person debate.

I think abortion could be on many individual lists.
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Re: Ideology

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:47 pm

Bonus question:

If you can guess whether I am pro-choice or pro-life you can have a banana dancing with a sword...really it's a great prize.
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Re: Ideology

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:53 pm

i'm guessing you want to ship the poor babies to ireland to be eaten?
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Re: Ideology

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:56 pm

Zarniwoop wrote:i'm guessing you want to ship the poor babies to ireland to be eaten?


I like Ireland, I wouldn't send them the poor babies. No prize.
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