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Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:38 pm
by Mountaineer Buc
The government has the greater need to shift its priorities.

Law and policy that benefits the population as a whole rather than the individuals and institutions with deep pockets. Not just in money or benefits, but infrastructure, public service projects and all that other boring stuff they should be doing rather than fielding 20 aircraft carriers and paying corporate welfare.

When the people reestablish control over their government, we can have these debates and make these choices. Until then, we're arguing over what should be rather that what is.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:31 pm
by Swashy
uscbucsfan wrote:
Swashy wrote:
Dude what do you think I'm talking about?? 70% of the country what are you talking about and where are you getting that number? This is what I want

1. I want to see Bush era/Trump era tax cuts for the super rich stopped.
2. I want to see wages keep up with the increased cost of living
3. I want to see a decrease in military/defense spending from the $2.2 billion a day we averaged from last year. Surely it can be done for less
4. A decrease in federal spending period

In the end I'm asking for a return to previous American policies. It would not be easy and it would have a lot of immediate, dramatic effects but it IS possible because we did it for nearly the entire 20th century and we did it without any of it being called socialism or entitlement.

Tax cuts are good accross the board as long as they come with spending cuts, but that's a philosophical debate.

I'm obviously all for reducing the military budget.

70% is just a tossed out number and likely pretty conservative of people who would have to pay more in taxes to provide Medicare for all, college tuition, and a UBI. Three things you've called for to "help the country". It's hard to keep up with your "wants". One moment you say "tax the living **** out of the rich" and you want these programs and the next you make a blanket claim to be a conservative and call to reduce federal spending.

At least MB acknowledges that most Americans would have to pay more and would have less to acheive his social goals. He simply says people need to change their priorities.


So wait a second.... you're telling me that it's not possible to tax the rich/big business, figure out a way to get wages upped, spend even marginally less than what we currently do and use whatever surplus we can to help others? Come on man.... you seem to think I want this is all big, sweeping reform. The stuff I want to see done would take years. As for all the other things I practically wrote a book against UBI and I have said that medicare for all and absolving student loan debt are popular policies that we can strive towards but it goes without saying that they are not feasible even in the near future. I like them as ideas but just because something sounds good does not mean it should always be done.

And for like the 3rd time I AM a conservative. Please don't make me tell the story again after this. I'll go down the list. I recognize marriage as the traditional union of a man and woman but our forefathers not only knew what homosexuality was and yet did not define marriage itself. That they intended for us to have liberties even if they were not conventional and that homosexuals are safeguarded by "life liberty and pursuit of happiness." I do not morally support abortion at any level but I also do not speak for women or their situation. I own a gun and it can be pried from my cold dead hands. I shake the hands and say "God bless you" and "Thank you to every veteran I see in person" and I pray with my daughter every night before bed and include our law enforcement in it and have been a member of the church for 10 of my 29 years of life. I voted for Rubio in the senate race. What more can I do? I support a liberal economic stance because what are are doing is no longer effective and I think there are important things to be addressed immediately but I otherwise just want to see a return to former policy and down the line, we see what we can do about creating solutions like student debt. It's a big deal but it can wait for now.

I am otherwise completely and totally disenfranchised because unless I plop my bible on the table shrieking at the top of my lungs about "Adam and Steve are getting married!", "Babies are getting killed" and "Support our troops" and "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE MY GUNS!" and hold to that people who are different than me have the right to exercise their ideals within the realms of the law it makes me a "liberal" in Florida. If defending those freedoms of people who are different from me and wanting to see the rich get taxed what they used to be for the first time in my lifetime is not a conservative concept then forget it. I had it wrong. It's not something I will ever budge from. I defined myself as conservative by my upbringing and what I practice in person and not politically. Maybe that is the case. Maybe because of that I'm not conservative after all. Because if I need to be a thunderous **** with a MAGA hat who is threatened by anything else that does not share my ideals and hero worships a failing economic concept because it utilizes capitalism in order to do it then count me out. I'm not saying that is what you do either. You are one of the rare conservatives I have ever met that does not go ballistic if someone approaches with a different perspective. Sure you disagree but it's the internet.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:56 am
by MJW
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The government has the greater need to shift its priorities.

Law and policy that benefits the population as a whole rather than the individuals and institutions with deep pockets. Not just in money or benefits, but infrastructure, public service projects and all that other boring stuff they should be doing rather than fielding 20 aircraft carriers and paying corporate welfare.

When the people reestablish control over their government, we can have these debates and make these choices. Until then, we're arguing over what should be rather that what is.


I agree with half of what you're saying. Death to corporatism and crony capitalism.

Then we're right back to, "If only the RIGHT people were deciding to do with our money and autonomy..."

Give it back to the people. That's what the right people would do. "Boring stuff" indeed but it's how we built a nation before Woodrow Wilson.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:42 am
by mdb1958
The uber rich are global, that battle has to be won first. The cash we gave Iran dont even compare to the cash we have let fly out on corporate jets.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:29 am
by DreadNaught
Democratic Socialism is a Scam

When I attended a rally with my family in Little Havana for then-Senator Barack Obama in 2007, our old neighborhood greeted both us and the future 44th president as if we were traitors. Older, conservative protestors yelled “Comunistas!” at us from across the Miami-Dade County Auditorium. We brushed off the attacks because we knew they came from understandably traumatized exiles and, to paraphrase the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, as Cuban Americans, we know socialism when we see it. Obama was no socialist. In fact, his message resonated with us, in part, because of his emphasis on helping those who were struggling by giving them a hand up, rather than a hand out—that was our story.

My mom came to this country shortly before I was born and worked as a social worker while she studied English. The pay wasn’t great, and she sometimes had to work a second job, but the hours were flexible and she had good healthcare benefits for our family. After 15 years, she was able to save enough money to start a small business and move us out of our modest duplex off Calle Ocho and into Miami’s middle-class suburbs.

Given our humble immigrant roots, student loan debt, and monthly medical expenses, you’d figure that democratic socialists like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would appeal to us—but they do not. Instead, they’re eerily reminiscent of the left-wing populists that millions in my community fled. Don’t get me wrong. I agree we must do more to help families like mine, but the policies of democratic socialists would have shackled us to the duplex where I was raised. I know this to be true because that is exactly what happened to the loved ones my grandparents left behind in socialist Cuba. They died in the same place where they were born.

In a classic bait-and-switch scam, democratic socialist politicians and their allies in the media are hoping that Americans confuse them for Nordic social democrats. While the terms are phonetically similar, those of us who have worked and spent time in Latin America understand that this is more than a misnomer. The ideology and policies of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which include an end to profits and “democratizing” the means of production, are much more like those of Havana and Caracas than Helsinki and Copenhagen.

Having been raised in a community built by the victims of socialism, it is difficult to explain just how bizarre it is to hear American media personalities—from The View’s Joy Behar to the Washington Post’s Elizabeth Bruenig—assure us it’s “just like liberalism” and “unlike your grandfather’s concept of socialism.” Of course, they fail to mention the part about government seizing control of people’s businesses and property. Such blitheful ignorance would usually be met with laughter at my house, but it just so happens that my grandfather had such an intimate understanding of socialism that he died as a political prisoner for opposing some of the very same ideas being peddled by the socialists du jour.

The failure of pundits to discern between democratic socialism and Nordic social democracy is not for a lack of transparency on the part of DSA. While their political candidates tend to resort to platitudes, DSA isn’t hiding the ball. In an article published in Jacobin, the socialist magazine’s editor and DSA’s Vice-Chair laid out a case for why Scandinavian social democracy is not what they have in mind, arguing a need for “a militant labor movement…to not merely tame but overcome capitalism.” Further dispelling the “it’s just free healthcare” myth, prominent democratic socialist Megan Day was even more explicit: “here’s the truth: democratic socialists want to end capitalism. And we want to do that by pursuing a reform agenda today in an effort to revive a politics focused on class hierarchy and inequality in the United States.”

If this sounds extreme, it’s not because it upsets our American “right-of-center” political sensibilities. When I presented a team of Norwegian economists with a summary written by Vox of DSA’s economic ideas, eleven out of the 12 indicated the views would fall on the “far-left/fringe” end of Norway’s political spectrum. Meanwhile, in neighboring Denmark, DSA’s commitment to ending the free enterprise system is a near mirror image of the platform of the Enhedslisten, the one-time communist Red-Green Alliance party that has averaged less than 4 percent of the vote in elections since 1990.

Americans are likelier to find quotidian examples of democratic socialism directly to our south. In Venezuela, the late Hugo Chavez both identified as a democratic socialist and governed like one. Unlike in Scandinavia, where state-owned enterprises are largely independent, profit-pursuing ventures and property rights are sacrosanct, Chavez confiscated private assets, and not only nationalized major industries, he ran them, too. For example, when the workers of oil giant PDVSA refused to embrace his policies, he fired and replaced them with unqualified cronies (including a cousin) in a move that accelerated the oil-dependent nation’s demise.

Venezuela and Cuba are perfectly valid illustrations of democratic socialist policies, but if this sounds like trite red-baiting, consider the outcomes elsewhere in the region. In Argentina, presidents Nestor and Cristina Kirchner nationalized major companies and placed them under the control of incompetent allies, which taxpayers continue bailing-out to the tune of $400,000 per day. True to the democratic socialist playbook, they also implemented labyrinthine business regulations and grew public payrolls by 61 percent. Kirchnerismo’s results ranged from lackluster to so dismal that government officials felt they had to manipulate economic data to conceal their performance.

The problem is not, as some say, that “democratic socialism” has not been tried and that only they know how to get it right; it’s that, by design, it makes economies fail and societies susceptible to totalitarianism. Just like 1959 Castro and 1998 Chavez, U.S. socialists stress their commitment to democracy, but human nature is a stubborn thing. Why should Americans trust that America’s socialists would be any more willing to relinquish power than their ideological brethren in Latin America and across the world? Indeed, it is odd that those who argue President Trump has authoritarian tendencies, are often the same people who want to give the federal government even more power over our economy.

To be clear, Latin America’s misfortunes are no excuse for inaction on healthcare and education at home, but they should help make us more scrupulous consumers of politics. Just as my family and most Americans were wise to dismiss the socialist slurs against President Obama, Democrats should be wary of those who assure us that “democratic socialism” will make us more like Europe. As millions of Latinos will tell you, it won’t.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:42 am
by mdb1958
21 trillion isnt real, sorry government still should make us rich and happy. Bwaaah, I wanna play on my phone for 7 hours a day and get paid 30 dollars an hour bwaaah.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:36 am
by Buc2
Hollywood replaces Trump's vandalized star with one that represents their own...

Image

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:43 am
by bucfanclw
Buc2 wrote:Hollywood replaces Trump's vandalized star with one that represents their own...

Image

Seems like a good compromise. At least this way Trump will still be represented...

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:44 am
by Buc2
:?:

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:47 am
by bucfanclw
Buc2 wrote::?:

What's confusing? Trump himself has multiple rape allegations and credible evidence of him taking the "Lolita Express" with his buddy Epstein. He fits right in.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:03 am
by DreadNaught
bucfanclw wrote:
Buc2 wrote::?:

What's confusing? Trump himself has multiple rape allegations and credible evidence of him taking the "Lolita Express" with his buddy Epstein. He fits right in.


What's confusing is Trump has been in the public eye since I was a kid in the mid 80's and it wasn't until he's the GOP candidate in the general election when he became a "rapist" and "racist". :roll: Don't you find it the least bit convenient that Republican Presidential candidates are always rapists and/or racists during election time, yet when they're out of office or lose the election we don't hear those stories anymore.

Trump certainly doesn't have the moral guidance we all want in White House. But let's not pretend he's the first womanizer to be POTUS. Being a philanderer is not the same as being a rapist. After all, it's not like he's having interns suck his **** in the oval office.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 am
by bucfanclw
DreadNaught wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:What's confusing? Trump himself has multiple rape allegations and credible evidence of him taking the "Lolita Express" with his buddy Epstein. He fits right in.


What's confusing is Trump has been in the public eye since I was a kid in the mid 80's and it wasn't until he's the GOP candidate in the general election when he became a "rapist" and "racist". :roll: Don't you find it the least bit convenient that Republican Presidential candidates are always rapists and/or racists during election time, yet when they're out of office or lose the election we don't hear those stories anymore.

Trump certainly doesn't have the moral guidance we all want in White House. But let's not pretend he's the first womanizer to be POTUS. Being a philanderer is not the same as being a rapist. After all, it's not like he's having interns suck his **** in the oval office.

He had the allegations a long time ago. Some of them even public although public reaction to that sort of thing was different back then. It just got brought back up AGAIN because he was running for the highest political office, as it rightfully should have been. The more jarring news was the way his supporters suddenly acted like it didn't matter for Trump, while bringing up Bill's record out the other side of their mouth.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:34 am
by NYBF
DreadNaught wrote:What's confusing is Trump has been in the public eye since I was a kid in the mid 80's and it wasn't until he's the GOP candidate in the general election when he became a ... "racist". :roll:


If you want to believe this, that's completely fine. You must be conveniently forgetting about the fair housing lawsuit against him in the 70s and his efforts against the Central Park 5 in the 80s.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:48 am
by DreadNaught
bucfanclw wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
What's confusing is Trump has been in the public eye since I was a kid in the mid 80's and it wasn't until he's the GOP candidate in the general election when he became a "rapist" and "racist". :roll: Don't you find it the least bit convenient that Republican Presidential candidates are always rapists and/or racists during election time, yet when they're out of office or lose the election we don't hear those stories anymore.

Trump certainly doesn't have the moral guidance we all want in White House. But let's not pretend he's the first womanizer to be POTUS. Being a philanderer is not the same as being a rapist. After all, it's not like he's having interns suck his **** in the oval office.

He had the allegations a long time ago. Some of them even public although public reaction to that sort of thing was different back then. It just got brought back up AGAIN because he was running for the highest political office, as it rightfully should have been. The more jarring news was the way his supporters suddenly acted like it didn't matter for Trump, while bringing up Bill's record out the other side of their mouth.


I never said it didn't matter. But I'm not convicting him as a rapist in the court of public opinion is all. We all want our representatives to be above reproach morally and Trump certainly is not. But he also isn't the first womanizer to be POTUS, but hopefully he'll be the last as society seems to be less tolerable of that behavior.

He's the President. His philandering from before he was in office isn't something I like, but it's not something the changes the reality we are in either. We're not impeaching him b/c he cheated on his wife.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:01 am
by RedLeader
You guys really think Trump is a racist? Really?


Maybe a ‘classist’... but a racist? Lol. Gtfoh.



Meanwhile, Omarosa is prepping for her tell-all. Shirley.. we’ll hear all about her discrimination at the WHITE house! Amirite.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:10 am
by bucfanclw
DreadNaught wrote:
bucfanclw wrote:He had the allegations a long time ago. Some of them even public although public reaction to that sort of thing was different back then. It just got brought back up AGAIN because he was running for the highest political office, as it rightfully should have been. The more jarring news was the way his supporters suddenly acted like it didn't matter for Trump, while bringing up Bill's record out the other side of their mouth.


I never said it didn't matter. But I'm not convicting him as a rapist in the court of public opinion is all. We all want our representatives to be above reproach morally and Trump certainly is not. But he also isn't the first womanizer to be POTUS, but hopefully he'll be the last as society seems to be less tolerable of that behavior.

He's the President. His philandering from before he was in office isn't something I like, but it's not something the changes the reality we are in either. We're not impeaching him b/c he cheated on his wife.

Dude, this conversation is based on Buc2 posting a meme of a hollywood star having rapists and pedophiles on it. Where did I claim to want to impeach the POTUS for this? If the court of public opinion being referenced has no problem convicting Hollywood of said actions, it's fair to point out that Trump has been part of that group.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:55 am
by Swashy
RedLeader wrote:You guys really think Trump is a racist? Really?


Maybe a ‘classist’... but a racist? Lol. Gtfoh.



Meanwhile, Omarosa is prepping for her tell-all. Shirley.. we’ll hear all about her discrimination at the WHITE house! Amirite.


If Trump is guilty of anything it's that he's the closest thing we've ever had to a fop in office.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:43 pm
by Ken Carson
Swashy wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Tax cuts are good accross the board as long as they come with spending cuts, but that's a philosophical debate.

I'm obviously all for reducing the military budget.

70% is just a tossed out number and likely pretty conservative of people who would have to pay more in taxes to provide Medicare for all, college tuition, and a UBI. Three things you've called for to "help the country". It's hard to keep up with your "wants". One moment you say "tax the living **** out of the rich" and you want these programs and the next you make a blanket claim to be a conservative and call to reduce federal spending.

At least MB acknowledges that most Americans would have to pay more and would have less to acheive his social goals. He simply says people need to change their priorities.


So wait a second.... you're telling me that it's not possible to tax the rich/big business, figure out a way to get wages upped, spend even marginally less than what we currently do and use whatever surplus we can to help others? Come on man.... you seem to think I want this is all big, sweeping reform. The stuff I want to see done would take years. As for all the other things I practically wrote a book against UBI and I have said that medicare for all and absolving student loan debt are popular policies that we can strive towards but it goes without saying that they are not feasible even in the near future. I like them as ideas but just because something sounds good does not mean it should always be done.

And for like the 3rd time I AM a conservative. Please don't make me tell the story again after this. I'll go down the list. I recognize marriage as the traditional union of a man and woman but our forefathers not only knew what homosexuality was and yet did not define marriage itself. That they intended for us to have liberties even if they were not conventional and that homosexuals are safeguarded by "life liberty and pursuit of happiness." I do not morally support abortion at any level but I also do not speak for women or their situation. I own a gun and it can be pried from my cold dead hands. I shake the hands and say "God bless you" and "Thank you to every veteran I see in person" and I pray with my daughter every night before bed and include our law enforcement in it and have been a member of the church for 10 of my 29 years of life. I voted for Rubio in the senate race. What more can I do? I support a liberal economic stance because what are are doing is no longer effective and I think there are important things to be addressed immediately but I otherwise just want to see a return to former policy and down the line, we see what we can do about creating solutions like student debt. It's a big deal but it can wait for now.

I am otherwise completely and totally disenfranchised because unless I plop my bible on the table shrieking at the top of my lungs about "Adam and Steve are getting married!", "Babies are getting killed" and "Support our troops" and "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE MY GUNS!" and hold to that people who are different than me have the right to exercise their ideals within the realms of the law it makes me a "liberal" in Florida. If defending those freedoms of people who are different from me and wanting to see the rich get taxed what they used to be for the first time in my lifetime is not a conservative concept then forget it. I had it wrong. It's not something I will ever budge from. I defined myself as conservative by my upbringing and what I practice in person and not politically. Maybe that is the case. Maybe because of that I'm not conservative after all. Because if I need to be a thunderous **** with a MAGA hat who is threatened by anything else that does not share my ideals and hero worships a failing economic concept because it utilizes capitalism in order to do it then count me out. I'm not saying that is what you do either. You are one of the rare conservatives I have ever met that does not go ballistic if someone approaches with a different perspective. Sure you disagree but it's the internet.

I made it as far as “we can tax businesss and up wages” sentence and realized you are incapable of having an informed conversation about this. The VAST majority of wages in this country are paid by businesses who aren’t traded on the NYSE with corporate execs making 8 figures. The 1% starts at about 400K household per year, which is basically every small business with enough revenue to employ a couple dozen people or more. Taxing those people and increasing wages will hockey stick.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:21 pm
by Mountaineer Buc
Ken Carson wrote:
Swashy wrote:
So wait a second.... you're telling me that it's not possible to tax the rich/big business, figure out a way to get wages upped, spend even marginally less than what we currently do and use whatever surplus we can to help others? Come on man.... you seem to think I want this is all big, sweeping reform. The stuff I want to see done would take years. As for all the other things I practically wrote a book against UBI and I have said that medicare for all and absolving student loan debt are popular policies that we can strive towards but it goes without saying that they are not feasible even in the near future. I like them as ideas but just because something sounds good does not mean it should always be done.

And for like the 3rd time I AM a conservative. Please don't make me tell the story again after this. I'll go down the list. I recognize marriage as the traditional union of a man and woman but our forefathers not only knew what homosexuality was and yet did not define marriage itself. That they intended for us to have liberties even if they were not conventional and that homosexuals are safeguarded by "life liberty and pursuit of happiness." I do not morally support abortion at any level but I also do not speak for women or their situation. I own a gun and it can be pried from my cold dead hands. I shake the hands and say "God bless you" and "Thank you to every veteran I see in person" and I pray with my daughter every night before bed and include our law enforcement in it and have been a member of the church for 10 of my 29 years of life. I voted for Rubio in the senate race. What more can I do? I support a liberal economic stance because what are are doing is no longer effective and I think there are important things to be addressed immediately but I otherwise just want to see a return to former policy and down the line, we see what we can do about creating solutions like student debt. It's a big deal but it can wait for now.

I am otherwise completely and totally disenfranchised because unless I plop my bible on the table shrieking at the top of my lungs about "Adam and Steve are getting married!", "Babies are getting killed" and "Support our troops" and "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE MY GUNS!" and hold to that people who are different than me have the right to exercise their ideals within the realms of the law it makes me a "liberal" in Florida. If defending those freedoms of people who are different from me and wanting to see the rich get taxed what they used to be for the first time in my lifetime is not a conservative concept then forget it. I had it wrong. It's not something I will ever budge from. I defined myself as conservative by my upbringing and what I practice in person and not politically. Maybe that is the case. Maybe because of that I'm not conservative after all. Because if I need to be a thunderous **** with a MAGA hat who is threatened by anything else that does not share my ideals and hero worships a failing economic concept because it utilizes capitalism in order to do it then count me out. I'm not saying that is what you do either. You are one of the rare conservatives I have ever met that does not go ballistic if someone approaches with a different perspective. Sure you disagree but it's the internet.

I made it as far as “we can tax businesss and up wages” sentence and realized you are incapable of having an informed conversation about this. The VAST majority of wages in this country are paid by businesses who aren’t traded on the NYSE with corporate execs making 8 figures. The 1% starts at about 400K household per year, which is basically every small business with enough revenue to employ a couple dozen people or more. Taxing those people and increasing wages will hockey stick.


You just described where I work.

::pulls up YTD Profit and Loss::

Yeah, YTD Net income is double YTD payroll expenses and all my employees make between $11-$16 before you get into management who was included in that math.

Trust me, Small business owners are doing a lot better than you think.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:29 pm
by DreadNaught
Ken Carson wrote:
Swashy wrote:
So wait a second.... you're telling me that it's not possible to tax the rich/big business, figure out a way to get wages upped, spend even marginally less than what we currently do and use whatever surplus we can to help others? Come on man.... you seem to think I want this is all big, sweeping reform. The stuff I want to see done would take years. As for all the other things I practically wrote a book against UBI and I have said that medicare for all and absolving student loan debt are popular policies that we can strive towards but it goes without saying that they are not feasible even in the near future. I like them as ideas but just because something sounds good does not mean it should always be done.

And for like the 3rd time I AM a conservative. Please don't make me tell the story again after this. I'll go down the list. I recognize marriage as the traditional union of a man and woman but our forefathers not only knew what homosexuality was and yet did not define marriage itself. That they intended for us to have liberties even if they were not conventional and that homosexuals are safeguarded by "life liberty and pursuit of happiness." I do not morally support abortion at any level but I also do not speak for women or their situation. I own a gun and it can be pried from my cold dead hands. I shake the hands and say "God bless you" and "Thank you to every veteran I see in person" and I pray with my daughter every night before bed and include our law enforcement in it and have been a member of the church for 10 of my 29 years of life. I voted for Rubio in the senate race. What more can I do? I support a liberal economic stance because what are are doing is no longer effective and I think there are important things to be addressed immediately but I otherwise just want to see a return to former policy and down the line, we see what we can do about creating solutions like student debt. It's a big deal but it can wait for now.

I am otherwise completely and totally disenfranchised because unless I plop my bible on the table shrieking at the top of my lungs about "Adam and Steve are getting married!", "Babies are getting killed" and "Support our troops" and "OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE MY GUNS!" and hold to that people who are different than me have the right to exercise their ideals within the realms of the law it makes me a "liberal" in Florida. If defending those freedoms of people who are different from me and wanting to see the rich get taxed what they used to be for the first time in my lifetime is not a conservative concept then forget it. I had it wrong. It's not something I will ever budge from. I defined myself as conservative by my upbringing and what I practice in person and not politically. Maybe that is the case. Maybe because of that I'm not conservative after all. Because if I need to be a thunderous **** with a MAGA hat who is threatened by anything else that does not share my ideals and hero worships a failing economic concept because it utilizes capitalism in order to do it then count me out. I'm not saying that is what you do either. You are one of the rare conservatives I have ever met that does not go ballistic if someone approaches with a different perspective. Sure you disagree but it's the internet.

I made it as far as “we can tax businesss and up wages” sentence and realized you are incapable of having an informed conversation about this. The VAST majority of wages in this country are paid by businesses who aren’t traded on the NYSE with corporate execs making 8 figures. The 1% starts at about 400K household per year, which is basically every small business with enough revenue to employ a couple dozen people or more. Taxing those people and increasing wages will hockey stick.


Yup, I don't think folks like Swashy understand who he's talking about in terms of the 1% or even the top 10%. Like we were discussing earlier this week, the 1% or 10% isn't some static group that never changes. I feel like people conflate the elites (ultra wealthy) that make up the 0.1% with this 1% group. There is a vast difference. Hell my wife and I are probably in the top 2-3% of household incomes based on the 1% cutoff at $400k and I was an E-6 in the Navy a few years ago and she is a hairdresser without a college degree. I joined the Navy as an E-2 making $800 month after taxes and working 100hr work weeks with no days off. My story isn't special or unique. It's called life and not making excuses.

But you're dead on in regards to who funds the government. The top 10% pay over 70% of government tax revenue collected. Now if we want to tax the multi-millionaires and billionaires a bit more I wouldn't have an issue. But I think if we just closed the loopholes they find and enforced the tax code that increasing tax rate wouldn't be necessary. I do have an issue with those 0.1% elites paying a 15% tax rate when I'm paying twice that on a fraction of the income.

The problem with exorbitant tax rates on business is the big ones will go elsewhere and small ones will go out of business. Then the government still wants their money so they will just increase taxes on others. Which is why you end up with citizens paying 60% tax rates in addition to 20% sales tax on purchases. This is the disconnect with socialists who think they can just tax the **** out of everything and it won't adversely affect the economy (size of the pie) or with these anti-capitalists who think this country will be just as rich if we do away with Capitalism. It's ****ing fantasyland and now bound in any reality or precedence.

America isn't perfect and neither is Capitalism. But they both two of the best ideas in the history of our species and have brought more wealth and freedom to more people in the world than any other society or economic model in history. So let's conserve what is good about them and continue to improve like we have instead of killing the golden goose so that the gubmit can dictate equal outcomes.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:31 pm
by Buc2
This could definitely throw a wrench into this fall's midterms.

Nicaragua, once again, is on the verge of complete collapse, as protests that began this spring over government cuts to social security have steadily escalated and are now turning deadly. Over 400 people have been killed as a result of the on-going conflicts between demonstrators and pro-government security forces since the crisis began.

Opposition forces are focused on forcing the early removal of husband and wife duo President Daniel Ortega and Vice President Rosario Murillo, from office.

Yes – you did read that correctly. The vice president is married to the president.

Leaders of the opposition charge that Ortega, now poised to enter his twelfth consecutive year in power, is running the country like a dictatorship. They charge that Ortega and his wife have been cracking down on peaceful protests, cutting off all non-state media propaganda as well as banning opposition parties. Demonstrators are hoping to force early elections; yet, with Ortega and his loyalists are standing firm, the risk of the country spiraling into civil war is looking increasingly likely.

The Nicaraguan political crisis could easily spin so far out of control that it creates a massive refugee crisis at the U.S. border – perhaps even as early as this fall.

And that's how Nicaraguan unrest could become a major issue during the midterm elections.

For most candidates vying for seats in this year's midterms, Nicaragua hasn't been a talking point on the standard stump speech. That could change quickly.

Even in states that do not directly border Mexico, another Nicaraguan civil war and an ensuing refugee crisis could shift the national debate back to border security and immigration reform.

"The political situation in Nicaragua is a pressure cooker, and the lid could blow off at any point," said Dean Phillips, the Democratic candidate for Congress in Minnesota's 3rd District. "You don't need to be an expert on border security to realize that if Nicaragua lapses into civil war, there will be tens of thousands of additional immigrants fleeing north."

Bradley Honan, a political strategist who worked for Bill and Hillary Clinton, Mike Bloomberg, Tony Blair and others, thinks that Nicaragua is the "October Surprise" that both parties should be preparing to deal with. "The potential for a widespread Nicaraguan refugee crisis on our southern border is the biggest political story that candidates from both political parties need to be paying attention to," said Honan.

More: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/10/midterm ... -card.html

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:37 pm
by Zarniwoop
Only one man is capable of going into Nicaragua and fixing that mess

The great cornholio

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:55 pm
by Buc2
Zarniwoop wrote:Only one man is capable of going into Nicaragua and fixing that mess

The great cornholio

Had to look up that reference. Never heard of it.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:00 pm
by Zarniwoop
My people are without TP.


No people should be without TP.


Are you threatening me?

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:21 pm
by Mountaineer Buc
Free TP for all bungholes!

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:03 pm
by RedLeader
The Marines are preparing for a potential 'big-ass fight,' and they may soon be spending more time in Alaska..

The Pentagon has been reorienting its forces for what it sees as emerging great-power competition with Russia and China.

For the Marine Corps, that likely means shifting away from the Middle East and refocusing on Europe and the Pacific.

To keep preparing for conditions in those places, Marines may soon find themselves spending more time in Alaska.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:33 pm
by Mountaineer Buc
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:10 pm
by DreadNaught
DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Funny that the post about this nonsense was right after mine about something that actually matters. Now we have a page or 2 going on about this pronoun bullshit/identity politics and not a peep about Monsanto possibly doing what the tobacco industry did for decades except on a bigger scale...poisoning people, giving them cancer, and spending big money to cover it all up.


Poor delt. I'll repost it. Was there a question or some other solicitation for discussion in this somewhere?

Monsanto are bad people. Who they are and what they represent in America is a prime example of the problem with our politics in DC w/ corporate lobbying imo.

Sadly, this case will be settled or rigged in some way. Monsanto will pay a fine and add some regulations and beat goes on...

deltbucs wrote:With "Mountainous" Evidence on Plaintiffs' Side, Hundreds of Cancer Cases Against Monsanto Get Green Light



This is a pretty big case. I'm really interested to find out what the employees say.


Jury awards 290 MILLION to victim that Monsanto has to pay.

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:49 am
by RedLeader
Image


Image

Re: Random Political News

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:14 pm
by mdb1958
Allalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalaalalalalalalalakbar.